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Spacebar
Member
(02-29-2012, 03:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sho_Nuff82

Most of older GAF (myself included) grew up playing in arcades in the 90s. I imagine many grew out of the relentless gaybashing and misogyny phase when they left their teenage years.

I agree with you. I think the gaybashing is a over the top when it comes to trash talking. However the "Fuck you!" and "Kick this mother fuckers ass" I don't have a problem with.

These guys traveling around to tournaments built the scene and companies like Capcom, Mad Catz, Namco, etc. are now profiting from this. Some of these guys never asked to be streamed yet they're a big reason why people watch.

Now that the scene has gotten much bigger and more exposure people want to police it so it can actually expand. Do they want it to expand for the scene or do they want it to expand to make more money?

The stream chat is bad too. It's just a bunch of internet trolls making a bunch of jokes and a lot of guys feed into it. LI Joe literally had a stream where he is calling people in the FGC looking to find out all the drama. Some of these players just entertain the audience who is watching.
Rice-Eater
Member
(02-29-2012, 03:28 PM)
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Well we're going to find out in the coming weeks and months. He's a regular at WNF and last year he commentated for Tekken(with Kayo Police who is a transexual) during EVO. I wonder what kind of actions will be taken. We condemn his actions, but I hope we don't condemn him, just not yet. Hopefully people can be forgiving if he's willing to change his ways. If you don't feel the same way then that's fine, it's just my opinion and please don't say that I'm taking his side or condoning his actions because I don't. I'm just the type of person where if you called me a chink or say something offensive to me but didn't mean it then we can forgive and forget as long as it doesn't happen again. That's what I hope can be done with Aris is all I'm saying.
CPS2
Member
(02-29-2012, 03:32 PM)
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I think the point of inkblot's post was that the fighting game community is not about hostility. He wasn't changing the topic, he was addressing the topic and saying what he thinks the community is about. Anything beyond that would be a bit extreme, srk and evo have nothing directly to do with cross assault. If anyone's going to hand out tournament infractions etc it should be contained within cross assault. inkblot was mainly showing that they see what's going on, and they don't agree with the comments made that sexual harassment is important to the fighting game community (obviously).

I actually understand what Aris was trying to say now, that you have to pay your dues and put something in before you get respect. People aren't going to kiss your ass if you're new. He took it way too far though, saying you should expect hostility and harassment, because that's important in separating newbies from respected people. And that is complete garbage. It is how it is though in some communities.
PsychoSoldier
Member
(02-29-2012, 03:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by CPS2

I think the point of inkblot's post was that the fighting game community is not about hostility. He wasn't changing the topic, he was addressing the topic and saying what he thinks the community is about. Anything beyond that would be a bit extreme, srk and evo have nothing directly to do with cross assault. If anyone's going to hand out tournament infractions etc it should be contained within cross assault. inkblot was mainly showing that they see what's going on, and they don't agree with the comments made that sexual harassment is important to the fighting game community.

Given how many tourneys give EVO seed points, they would have plenty of opportunity to pressure organizers into censuring Aris should they really want to do so.
erpg
GAF parliamentarian
(02-29-2012, 03:34 PM)
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Burning Aris as an example for everyone else isn't the right route to take.
MThanded
Member
(02-29-2012, 03:35 PM)
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The discussion about this on the Giant Bombcast is great. I suggest you listen to it if you haven't.
JudgeN
Member
(02-29-2012, 03:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by PsychoSoldier

Given how many tourneys give EVO seed points, they would have plenty of opportunity to pressure organizers into censuring Aris should they really want to do so.

We already been through this, EVO points don't mean anything. You don't need Evo points to participate in Evo. The only thing they can do is ban the person and thats assuming the person is even going to play in Evo in the first place. FGC doesn't really have any sort of authority figure to police people, its strictly up to the individuals.
Feature
Banned
(02-29-2012, 03:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Doomshine

I'll try my best to compile some of the information available about this, but it's hard since the sources are so scattered, so feel free to add anything that is missing.

Mainstream articles about it (the big ones, I'm sure there are more out there):

http://penny-arcade.com/report/edito...fighting-games

http://www.giantbomb.com/news/when-p...-crossed/4006/

http://www.destructoid.com/sexual-ha...--222877.phtml

Super__Yan's twitter:

https://twitter.com/#!/super__yan

https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan/st...04097240928256
https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan/st...71210064347136
https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan/st...49288480731136
https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan/st...69277770223616
https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan/st...70507296894977
https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan/st...95674177859584
https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan/st...96196477763586
https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan/st...40858362077186
https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan/st...74771574845440
https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan/st...00846212988928

Note that this is not every single tweet related to this and she also deleted some of her tweets, feel free to add anything important I missed.

Phone calls from people on the show with LI Joe:

Dr Sub Zero @ 5:15:25, SherryJenix @ 5:33:00, Arturo Sanchez @ 6:02:35 :

http://www.twitch.tv/thisislijoe/b/309985394

Aris @ 0:28:00 :

http://www.twitch.tv/thisislijoe/b/310014836

He talks to other people too, but I'm focusing on people who were actually there.

Statement from Aris:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/g65iqn

If I have time I'll try to actually dig through the archives of the show to find some more stuff and links to specific tweets from Miranda, but that's it for now.

Thanks for that. I first thought the girl was just laughing with it, but apparently she's really offended by it. That caveman lookalike needs to crawl back into his mom's basement. Probably feels better about himself , or thinks he's a pick up artist when using those sexist comments.

He just looks like the stereotype virgin WoW player, but to bad the girl didn't call him out on that. Bet that would've shut him up good. If not, kick him in the nuts.
MThanded
Member
(02-29-2012, 03:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by SamVimes

What does that have to do anything? He uses homophobic slurs but clearly Ricky is not bothered in the least, so why should you?

This is a terrible defense man... This is not going to end well.
Last edited by MThanded; 02-29-2012 at 03:41 PM.
Rice-Eater
Member
(02-29-2012, 03:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by CPS2

He took it way too far though, saying you should expect hostility and harassment, because that's important in separating newbies from respected people. And that is complete garbage. It is how it is though in some communities.

This is exact reason why I was afraid to attend tourneys when I came back into SF as a 09'er. I fell back in love with the series that I loved as a kid in the early 90s. I read SRK a bit in the mid-2000s and the hostility kind of scared me because I didn't want to attend a tournament and be ostracized because I was a outsider who had no friends or people that are already in the community. I think Hitokage convinced me that everything was cool so I came out for the first time, I met him and bunch of other cool people. I'm not very involved in the community, but it's a great one that is welcoming to everybody. And that's what I've heard about most other communities around the US as well. Last year I went to EVO for the first time and it was one of the best experiences in my life.

That old guard that Aris is trying to protect. It's not really prevalent anymore nor is it the majority of the community.
PsychoSoldier
Member
(02-29-2012, 03:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by JudgeN

We already been through this, EVO points don't mean anything. You don't need Evo points to participate in Evo. The only thing they can do is ban the person and thats assuming the person is even going to play in Evo in the first place. FGC doesn't really have any sort of authority figure to police people, its strictly up to the individuals.

If nothing else, important figures need to step up and be more forceful in publicly reprimanding him for his actions and letting him know that if he doesn't change his behavior he isn't welcome at the tournaments anymore.

As long as he can behave badly and people allow him to be a part of the group, then it's unlikely it's going to change.
i-Lo
Member
(02-29-2012, 03:51 PM)
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The thing is, most of us have grown accustomed to all racist and other disgusting slanders while playing things get heated online to such an extent that our retorts also contain similar if not same poison. I believe the majority of people who spout those crap are neither sexist nor racist. Saying stuff like that is very hurtful and as such is underlying motive, i.e. to hit where it hurts. This becomes an even greater problem with a group that has its own code and is tightly knit.

I think this problem is more deep rooted that most care acknowledge. The majority of people who play games are males. If we look at game developers we'd know how females are generally portrayed (i.e. big boobs, barely clothed, etc). Of course, this is changing as gaming proliferates among different places and demographics. For example: Look at original Lara Croft's design and the one from reboot. I am not going to lie; I too like big boobs and nice ass and scantily clothed women. But I can differentiate between game and reality and treat women the way I treat others; i.e. with respect. Add to that there is almost no repercussion for being an asshole.

Our patriarchal society and the males' adoption of gaming by the majority may be two of many reasons why women are treated like objects to be stalked and harassed online. The whole trash talking thing is akin to joining the bully's club. You start as the victim and keep on going as a perpetrator. The cycle is self perpetuating as long as any kind of communication is allowed between players extraneous to gameplay itself. Of course, I do not advocate removal of such feature rather the education of the masses on online ethics.
Kintaro
Worships the porcelain goddess
(02-29-2012, 03:53 PM)
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Well, here is part of Patrick's updated story.

Miranda “Super_Yan” Pakozdi, member of Team Tekken and the female participant at the center of this, chose not to talk to me.

Aris "Aris" Bakhtanians, the male coach of Team Tekken attributed with the questionable commentary, did the same.

A few moments ago, however, Bakhtanians reached out to me over email, and released a brief statement. I asked Bakhtanians if he'd be willing to talk about the situation at length, but he unfortunately declined the opportunity.

His full statement is featured below:

"I understand that I said some controversial statements on the Cross Assault show, and a lot of people are deeply offended with what was said. When I made these statements, I was very heated as I felt that the culture of a scene I have been a part of for over 15 years was being threatened. I unfortunately used extreme examples in the heat of the moment and feel that my statements don’t actually communicate how I feel. This is similar to what people say when they get into an argument with their girlfriend, and they say things that they deeply regret. I sincerely apologise if I have offended anyone. My statements do not reflect those of Capcom or myself. The last thing I want to do is get them in trouble for giving me and the fighting game community the opportunity to have an amazing show like this.

What I was trying to communicate is that mild hostility has always been a defining characteristic of the fighting game scene. Back when arcades were more prevalent, people didn’t like newcomers, and players needed to fight and pay their dues to get respect. The debate I was in was with a person who supported professional leagues, who have intent to censor the community to make it more accessible. I think the sink or swim mentality is something that defined our culture, and if that succeeds it removes something which has been important to help create some of the best fighting game players of our time. I was unfortunately unable to make this point clearly. Again, I am deeply sorry for offending anyone. This was a combination of the people taking things out of context and my own inability in the heat of the moment to defend myself and the community I have loved for over 15 years."

It's unlikely, however, Bakhtanians' statement alone will put this issue to rest.

I've received an enormous amount of feedback since the story ran, and I'm still filtering through the comments from both inside and outside the fighting game community. I'm setting up interviews as we speak. We'll revisit this soon.

Rather amusing how these two want to clam up real quick when asked for a proper interview.

Aris and anyone else who thinks like he does needs to realize that the age of the arcade are over. Get over it. Move on and adapt. If you can't, bounce. The new age of fighters is what has allowed you to attempt to make a buck by making websites, commentating, selling T-Shirts, sponsorships and even faking rivalries in an attempt to make money. Take the good with the "bad".
Last edited by Kintaro; 02-29-2012 at 03:57 PM.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
(02-29-2012, 03:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kintaro

Well, here is part of Patrick's updated story.



Rather amusing how these two want to clam up real quick when asked for a proper interview.

According to Arturo, he advised them not to talk since the show was still going on and emotions and stress levels were still high. The wisdom of this is debatable, but he's right that people will probably be more able to accurately and clearly articulate what went down after they've had a few days to recover from the stress and madness of everything.
alstein
Member
(02-29-2012, 04:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lyphen

Burning Aris as an example for everyone else isn't the right route to take.

I agree. I don't want Aris to be used as a scapegoat for a problem that is bigger then one person.
PsychoSoldier
Member
(02-29-2012, 04:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kintaro



Rather amusing how these two want to clam up real quick when asked for a proper interview.

Aris and anyone else who thinks like he does needs to realize that the age of the arcade are over. Get over it. Move on and adapt. If you can't, bounce. The new age of fighters is what has allowed you to attempt to make a buck by making websites, commentating, selling T-Shirts, sponsorships and even faking rivalries in an attempt to make money. Take the good with the "bad".

I know for Miranda's part she made some promises to not do any interviews at least for now.

Whenever she does decide to do so, however, be sure that this thing will come back with a fury.
2San
Member
(02-29-2012, 04:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Feature

Thanks for that. I first thought the girl was just laughing with it, but apparently she's really offended by it. That caveman lookalike needs to crawl back into his mom's basement. Probably feels better about himself , or thinks he's a pick up artist when using those sexist comments.

He just looks like the stereotype virgin WoW player, but to bad the girl didn't call him out on that. Bet that would've shut him up good. If not, kick him in the nuts.

Really?
ultron87
Member
(02-29-2012, 04:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lost Fragment

According to Arturo, he advised them not to talk since the show was still going on and emotions and stress levels were still high. The wisdom of this is debatable, but he's right that people will probably be more able to accurately and clearly articulate what went down after they've had a few days to recover from the stress and madness of everything.

Ick. The whole don't talk to the media thing just screams "we're trying to make this blow over as fast possible". That might not have been the intention, but that is really the impression it gives.
dock
Member
(02-29-2012, 04:15 PM)
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Interesting that many people think this attitude is exclusive to the fighting game community. It's part of why I've had very few enjoyable online gaming experiences. PC gaming, for example, felt like this to me.

I own an arcade cabinet for fighting games, but don't enjoy the company of douchebags.
Hot Coldman
Member
(02-29-2012, 04:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by alstein

I agree. I don't want Aris to be used as a scapegoat for a problem that is bigger then one person.

The general vibe I've got so far is that, yeah, people aren't happy with this guy at all, but that bigger problem is being noticed. Aris being singled out for this gives the FGC an opportunity to say 'OK, what are we going to do about this sort of behaviour?', at least.

Hopefully he'll be a catalyst for greater change rather than a scapegoat. Besides, if the FGC do pretty much decide to sweep this under the rug, people are going to notice. That reputation will be set.

This thing is certainly living up to the 'reality' aspect of reality show, though. :lol
PsychoSoldier
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(02-29-2012, 04:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by ultron87

Ick. The whole don't talk to the media thing just screams "we're trying to make this blow over as fast possible". That might not have been the intention, but that is really the impression it gives.

Yeah, I didn't see it live, but I do know that whenever Kuchera started poking around this issue, Haunts mentioned it on stream and made the suggestion that they take the best comment from the stream monsters and use it as a reply.

And if you look at the Cross Assault thread, there were a lot of people saying "fuck PA" and other such things.

Yeah man, how dare they see a publicly available video and ask questions about it.
Neuromancer
The Mayuh of f'n Bawston
(02-29-2012, 04:27 PM)
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A little off topic but I envy Aris his full and luxurious beard. Even though I'm 32 years old, my facial hair only comes in patches here and there. I don't think I could ever grow it out like his and that bums me out.
Tylahedras
Banned
(02-29-2012, 04:28 PM)
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Random words like 'rape' and 'bitch' don't mean much they just make you a juvenile jerk.

Continuously directing dirty comments / attacks at her specifically is flat out wrong, and if they were told to stop and they didn't then it's strait up harassment. Capcom should have stepped in on this.

Nothing makes me more sad that watching someone who loves something be rejected by it's community. Some of those comments directed at her (very reasonable) complaints are just mind blowing.
y2dvd
Member
(02-29-2012, 05:02 PM)
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If Capcom wanted a reality-tv-show-worthy controversy, I guess they succeeded. We'll see if the viewship goes up.

Unfortunately, Aris was seen as a representative for the FGC. The Cross Assault show was a chance to grab more viewership and more fanbase. Time will tell, but I felt like because of this issue, the FGC took two steps forward, then one step back. Some of yall stated how bad the FGC looked from the outside. Issues like this deters people from involving themselves with the community. If you want anything to grow bigger and faster, you got to filter out the immaturity and be more professional.
Chavelo
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(02-29-2012, 05:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by y2dvd

If Capcom wanted a reality-tv-show-worthy controversy, I guess they succeeded. We'll see if the viewship goes up.

Unfortunately, Aris was seen as a representative for the FGC. The Cross Assault show was a chance to grab more viewership and more fanbase. Time will tell, but I felt like because of this issue, the FGC took two steps forward, then one step back. Some of yall stated how bad the FGC looked from the outside. Issues like this deters people from involving themselves with the community. If you want anything to grow bigger and faster, you got to filter out the immaturity and be more professional.

But we're real! And raw! and uncensored! and...



"Why would you do that, Art?"
Last edited by Chavelo; 02-29-2012 at 05:14 PM.
FartOfWar
Why so low?
(02-29-2012, 05:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ragingnight

so wait. Please correct me if I'm wrong. For example with that logic; if I tell somebody to go shoot up a school and that imaginary person does it. I'm not at fault because I had no direct involvement of the particular action?

The Beastie Boys are to blame when you fought for your right to party.
MisterHero
Super Member
(02-29-2012, 05:12 PM)
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MINDGAMES
matics
Member
(02-29-2012, 05:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Feature

Thanks for that. I first thought the girl was just laughing with it, but apparently she's really offended by it. That caveman lookalike needs to crawl back into his mom's basement. Probably feels better about himself , or thinks he's a pick up artist when using those sexist comments.

He just looks like the stereotype virgin WoW player, but to bad the girl didn't call him out on that. Bet that would've shut him up good. If not, kick him in the nuts.

Man, this is ridiculous. Name calling isn't really the route you wanna take when discussing this sort of thing.
kirblar
Member
(02-29-2012, 05:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by dock

Interesting that many people think this attitude is exclusive to the fighting game community. It's part of why I've had very few enjoyable online gaming experiences. PC gaming, for example, felt like this to me.

I own an arcade cabinet for fighting games, but don't enjoy the company of douchebags.

That's one of my big points of frustrations with articles like these- they seek to demonize a group while ignoring that the problem goes far deeper/larger than that.
Fersis
It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
(02-29-2012, 05:49 PM)
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dunno if the website is well known but this is Probably the best article so far: Meet the sexist, racist pigs of Capcom's fighting-game reality show

Game Journalism ™
Last edited by Fersis; 02-29-2012 at 05:56 PM.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
(02-29-2012, 05:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fersis

dunno if the website is well known but this is Probably the best article so far: Meet the sexist, racist pigs of Capcom's fighting-game reality show

hahaha, wow.

But where are they getting "racist" from? I mean yeah it's' not like Aris doesn't say a ton of racially insensitive shit too, but I don't recall him really going in on that during the show. Did I miss something, or are we just throwing out every terrible adjective we can think of now?

"Next on CNN: meet the racist, sexist, pedophile supporters of fighting games"
Chavelo
Member
(02-29-2012, 05:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fersis

dunno if the website is well known but this is Probably the best article so far: Meet the sexist, racist pigs of Capcom's fighting-game reality show

Game Journalism

FartOfWar
Why so low?
(02-29-2012, 06:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fersis

dunno if the website is well known but this is Probably the best article so far: Meet the sexist, racist pigs of Capcom's fighting-game reality show

Game Journalism

Aris isn't representative of the entire FGC. The one dumb article you can find on the story IS representative of games journalism. Mwoah TM.
Sp00ky
Member
(02-29-2012, 06:08 PM)
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I see a lot of discussion in here. I don't really have in interest in talking about this issue publicly because although this happened at Cross Assault, this is more of an issue of people and less of an issue about the show. this just happened to happen at cross assault, but it happens all the time, all over the world.

Aris and Miranda are both very kind, very real people. They were placed into a super high tension situation, and both cracked under pressure.

The main point and issue here is that comments made by Aris added to her tension and pressure. Since those early comments, he apologized to her directly many times, and genuinely seemed concerned for what he had done. His own stress accumulated over the course of the show, and looming over his head the entire time was this issue as well, which im sure added to it. Even he did not realize the scope at which he would be vilified for his comments until we discussed them being talked about on major sites.

Before I continue I would like to point out that yes, there are a lot of OG players with an OG mentality. You could call that an 'old guard' but that isn't really the truth. these guys just enjoy Fighting Games and want to continue enjoying them, and all aspects of why they enjoy them, including the gritty, competitive atmosphere they remember facing in the early days when they first began playing competitively.

What Aris did was wrong. He has sincerely apologized both to Miranda and publicly on Twitter. This is a harsh life lesson for him, someone who enjoys his own uncensored nature, to realize just how bad his words and his egging someone on can hurt another person. In a sense this is about "growing up". and Yes, the scene is growing up, as much as people do not believe it. But it will take a long time for the scene to really come together and understand what growing up is all about. Lessons like this are ones that will need to be learned, so people can see their mistakes and recover from them.

Last year around this time, I made some very controversial statements about evo and level up, which I am sure a lot of you guys remember. though at the time that was how I felt, afterwards i really realized the damage my statements had caused, and I apologized sincerely. It seems to me my apology was accepted, as I was allowed to be a part of the team for evo that year.

All I am saying here is yes Miranda was hurt by what Aris said, but we need to give Aris a chance to recover from this lesson. this is not about removing the R-Rated nature of the FGC, because that to me appears to be unnecessary and is not in my current plan for any of my big events. However it is about also knowing how much damage your words can do to both a person's mind and heart, and also to the scene.

I hope that we can stick together, and all learn this lesson together. Sexual Harassment is a bad thing, and much like things like stealing, & murder, is just in some people's human nature and can never be completely stopped. However if we can make it so people understand both sides I think that will help. Everyone has their own opinions about life and the world, and I do not want to censor their opinion, rather I would like to inform them of the pain a harsher type of thing like harassment/bullying can do to another person, so that perhaps they can understand and change.

I guess this was wordy and not every expressive in the end. Even I have made sexist remarks at times, but over time I've learned to be more sensitive to women, and hopefully others will too. and if they dont choose to, that is their prerogative, but at the least keeping those views private to their own following and not the general public can help.
Chavelo
Member
(02-29-2012, 06:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sp00ky

I see a lot of discussion in here. I don't really have in interest in talking about this issue publicly because although this happened at Cross Assault, this is more of an issue of people and less of an issue about the show. this just happened to happen at cross assault, but it happens all the time, all over the world.

Aris and Miranda are both very kind, very real people. They were placed into a super high tension situation, and both cracked under pressure.

The main point and issue here is that comments made by Aris added to her tension and pressure. Since those early comments, he apologized to her directly many times, and genuinely seemed concerned for what he had done. His own stress accumulated over the course of the show, and looming over his head the entire time was this issue as well, which im sure added to it. Even he did not realize the scope at which he would be vilified for his comments until we discussed them being talked about on major sites.

Before I continue I would like to point out that yes, there are a lot of OG players with an OG mentality. You could call that an 'old guard' but that isn't really the truth. these guys just enjoy Fighting Games and want to continue enjoying them, and all aspects of why they enjoy them, including the gritty, competitive atmosphere they remember facing in the early days when they first began playing competitively.

What Aris did was wrong. He has sincerely apologized both to Miranda and publicly on Twitter. This is a harsh life lesson for him, someone who enjoys his own uncensored nature, to realize just how bad his words and his egging someone on can hurt another person. In a sense this is about "growing up". and Yes, the scene is growing up, as much as people do not believe it. But it will take a long time for the scene to really come together and understand what growing up is all about. Lessons like this are ones that will need to be learned, so people can see their mistakes and recover from them.

Last year around this time, I made some very controversial statements about evo and level up, which I am sure a lot of you guys remember. though at the time that was how I felt, afterwards i really realized the damage my statements had caused, and I apologized sincerely. It seems to me my apology was accepted, as I was allowed to be a part of the team for evo that year.

All I am saying here is yes Miranda was hurt by what Aris said, but we need to give Aris a chance to recover from this lesson. this is not about removing the R-Rated nature of the FGC, because that to me appears to be unnecessary and is not in my current plan for any of my big events. However it is about also knowing how much damage your words can do to both a person's mind and heart, and also to the scene.

I hope that we can stick together, and all learn this lesson together. Sexual Harassment is a bad thing, and much like things like stealing, & murder, is just in some people's human nature and can never be completely stopped. However if we can make it so people understand both sides I think that will help. Everyone has their own opinions about life and the world, and I do not want to censor their opinion, rather I would like to inform them of the pain a harsher type of thing like harassment/bullying can do to another person, so that perhaps they can understand and change.

I guess this was wordy and not every expressive in the end. Even I have made sexist remarks at times, but over time I've learned to be more sensitive to women, and hopefully others will too. and if they dont choose to, that is their prerogative, but at the least keeping those views private to their own following and not the general public can help.



If this community is ever destined to grow up/blow up/mature/expand for the best, I hope you'll always be in the frontline, Sp00ky.
You need a damn avatar, btw. :3
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
(02-29-2012, 06:12 PM)
Lost Fragment's Avatar

Originally Posted by Sp00ky

I see a lot of discussion in here. I don't really have in interest in talking about this issue publicly because although this happened at Cross Assault, this is more of an issue of people and less of an issue about the show. this just happened to happen at cross assault, but it happens all the time, all over the world.

Aris and Miranda are both very kind, very real people. They were placed into a super high tension situation, and both cracked under pressure.

The main point and issue here is that comments made by Aris added to her tension and pressure. Since those early comments, he apologized to her directly many times, and genuinely seemed concerned for what he had done. His own stress accumulated over the course of the show, and looming over his head the entire time was this issue as well, which im sure added to it. Even he did not realize the scope at which he would be vilified for his comments until we discussed them being talked about on major sites.

Before I continue I would like to point out that yes, there are a lot of OG players with an OG mentality. You could call that an 'old guard' but that isn't really the truth. these guys just enjoy Fighting Games and want to continue enjoying them, and all aspects of why they enjoy them, including the gritty, competitive atmosphere they remember facing in the early days when they first began playing competitively.

What Aris did was wrong. He has sincerely apologized both to Miranda and publicly on Twitter. This is a harsh life lesson for him, someone who enjoys his own uncensored nature, to realize just how bad his words and his egging someone on can hurt another person. In a sense this is about "growing up". and Yes, the scene is growing up, as much as people do not believe it. But it will take a long time for the scene to really come together and understand what growing up is all about. Lessons like this are ones that will need to be learned, so people can see their mistakes and recover from them.

Last year around this time, I made some very controversial statements about evo and level up, which I am sure a lot of you guys remember. though at the time that was how I felt, afterwards i really realized the damage my statements had caused, and I apologized sincerely. It seems to me my apology was accepted, as I was allowed to be a part of the team for evo that year.

All I am saying here is yes Miranda was hurt by what Aris said, but we need to give Aris a chance to recover from this lesson. this is not about removing the R-Rated nature of the FGC, because that to me appears to be unnecessary and is not in my current plan for any of my big events. However it is about also knowing how much damage your words can do to both a person's mind and heart, and also to the scene.

I hope that we can stick together, and all learn this lesson together. Sexual Harassment is a bad thing, and much like things like stealing, & murder, is just in some people's human nature and can never be completely stopped. However if we can make it so people understand both sides I think that will help. Everyone has their own opinions about life and the world, and I do not want to censor their opinion, rather I would like to inform them of the pain a harsher type of thing like harassment/bullying can do to another person, so that perhaps they can understand and change.

I guess this was wordy and not every expressive in the end. Even I have made sexist remarks at times, but over time I've learned to be more sensitive to women, and hopefully others will too. and if they dont choose to, that is their prerogative, but at the least keeping those views private to their own following and not the general public can help.

Hard to disagree with much here. Thanks for all your work and commitment, Spooky.
Dartastic
Junior Member
(02-29-2012, 06:14 PM)
Dartastic's Avatar

Originally Posted by Lost Fragment

Hard to disagree with much here. Thanks for all your work and commitment, Spooky.

.
freenudemacusers
Member
(02-29-2012, 06:16 PM)
freenudemacusers's Avatar

Originally Posted by Sp00ky

I see a lot of discussion in here. I don't really have in interest in talking about this issue publicly because although this happened at Cross Assault, this is more of an issue of people and less of an issue about the show. this just happened to happen at cross assault, but it happens all the time, all over the world.

Aris and Miranda are both very kind, very real people. They were placed into a super high tension situation, and both cracked under pressure.

The main point and issue here is that comments made by Aris added to her tension and pressure. Since those early comments, he apologized to her directly many times, and genuinely seemed concerned for what he had done. His own stress accumulated over the course of the show, and looming over his head the entire time was this issue as well, which im sure added to it. Even he did not realize the scope at which he would be vilified for his comments until we discussed them being talked about on major sites.

Before I continue I would like to point out that yes, there are a lot of OG players with an OG mentality. You could call that an 'old guard' but that isn't really the truth. these guys just enjoy Fighting Games and want to continue enjoying them, and all aspects of why they enjoy them, including the gritty, competitive atmosphere they remember facing in the early days when they first began playing competitively.

What Aris did was wrong. He has sincerely apologized both to Miranda and publicly on Twitter. This is a harsh life lesson for him, someone who enjoys his own uncensored nature, to realize just how bad his words and his egging someone on can hurt another person. In a sense this is about "growing up". and Yes, the scene is growing up, as much as people do not believe it. But it will take a long time for the scene to really come together and understand what growing up is all about. Lessons like this are ones that will need to be learned, so people can see their mistakes and recover from them.

Last year around this time, I made some very controversial statements about evo and level up, which I am sure a lot of you guys remember. though at the time that was how I felt, afterwards i really realized the damage my statements had caused, and I apologized sincerely. It seems to me my apology was accepted, as I was allowed to be a part of the team for evo that year.

All I am saying here is yes Miranda was hurt by what Aris said, but we need to give Aris a chance to recover from this lesson. this is not about removing the R-Rated nature of the FGC, because that to me appears to be unnecessary and is not in my current plan for any of my big events. However it is about also knowing how much damage your words can do to both a person's mind and heart, and also to the scene.

I hope that we can stick together, and all learn this lesson together. Sexual Harassment is a bad thing, and much like things like stealing, & murder, is just in some people's human nature and can never be completely stopped. However if we can make it so people understand both sides I think that will help. Everyone has their own opinions about life and the world, and I do not want to censor their opinion, rather I would like to inform them of the pain a harsher type of thing like harassment/bullying can do to another person, so that perhaps they can understand and change.

I guess this was wordy and not every expressive in the end. Even I have made sexist remarks at times, but over time I've learned to be more sensitive to women, and hopefully others will too. and if they dont choose to, that is their prerogative, but at the least keeping those views private to their own following and not the general public can help.

Hearing this means a lot, and thanks. Hopefully this sentiment is well broadcast to those outside of the FGC, but that is going to be a tough hill to climb, as things are now.
erpg
GAF parliamentarian
(02-29-2012, 06:19 PM)
erpg's Avatar
A much better statement than inkblot's celebratory post. I hope FGC leaders do a lot to educate the community about how hurtful this kind of harassment can be, even if it's in jest. There's a difference between competitive mind games and making someone sexually uncomfortable, or completely unwelcome at a live event.
Last edited by erpg; 02-29-2012 at 06:22 PM.
Conceited
mechaniphiliac
(02-29-2012, 06:21 PM)
Conceited's Avatar

Originally Posted by Sp00ky

I see a lot of discussion in here. I don't really have in interest in talking about this issue publicly because although this happened at Cross Assault, this is more of an issue of people and less of an issue about the show. this just happened to happen at cross assault, but it happens all the time, all over the world.

Aris and Miranda are both very kind, very real people. They were placed into a super high tension situation, and both cracked under pressure.

The main point and issue here is that comments made by Aris added to her tension and pressure. Since those early comments, he apologized to her directly many times, and genuinely seemed concerned for what he had done. His own stress accumulated over the course of the show, and looming over his head the entire time was this issue as well, which im sure added to it. Even he did not realize the scope at which he would be vilified for his comments until we discussed them being talked about on major sites.

Before I continue I would like to point out that yes, there are a lot of OG players with an OG mentality. You could call that an 'old guard' but that isn't really the truth. these guys just enjoy Fighting Games and want to continue enjoying them, and all aspects of why they enjoy them, including the gritty, competitive atmosphere they remember facing in the early days when they first began playing competitively.

What Aris did was wrong. He has sincerely apologized both to Miranda and publicly on Twitter. This is a harsh life lesson for him, someone who enjoys his own uncensored nature, to realize just how bad his words and his egging someone on can hurt another person. In a sense this is about "growing up". and Yes, the scene is growing up, as much as people do not believe it. But it will take a long time for the scene to really come together and understand what growing up is all about. Lessons like this are ones that will need to be learned, so people can see their mistakes and recover from them.

Last year around this time, I made some very controversial statements about evo and level up, which I am sure a lot of you guys remember. though at the time that was how I felt, afterwards i really realized the damage my statements had caused, and I apologized sincerely. It seems to me my apology was accepted, as I was allowed to be a part of the team for evo that year.

All I am saying here is yes Miranda was hurt by what Aris said, but we need to give Aris a chance to recover from this lesson. this is not about removing the R-Rated nature of the FGC, because that to me appears to be unnecessary and is not in my current plan for any of my big events. However it is about also knowing how much damage your words can do to both a person's mind and heart, and also to the scene.

I hope that we can stick together, and all learn this lesson together. Sexual Harassment is a bad thing, and much like things like stealing, & murder, is just in some people's human nature and can never be completely stopped. However if we can make it so people understand both sides I think that will help. Everyone has their own opinions about life and the world, and I do not want to censor their opinion, rather I would like to inform them of the pain a harsher type of thing like harassment/bullying can do to another person, so that perhaps they can understand and change.

I guess this was wordy and not every expressive in the end. Even I have made sexist remarks at times, but over time I've learned to be more sensitive to women, and hopefully others will too. and if they dont choose to, that is their prerogative, but at the least keeping those views private to their own following and not the general public can help.

Well said Vic.
Spacebar
Member
(02-29-2012, 06:22 PM)
Spacebar's Avatar
Nicely put spooky. You did a fantastic job streaming the show. Keep up the great work.
Fersis
It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
(02-29-2012, 06:22 PM)
Fersis's Avatar
Spooky spoke like the true gentleman he is. Props for all your hard work.
* Bows *

Originally Posted by FartOfWar

Aris isn't representative of the entire FGC. The one dumb article you can find on the story IS representative of games journalism. Mwoah TM.

Thats the joke actually.
Last edited by Fersis; 02-29-2012 at 06:26 PM.
Rice-Eater
Member
(02-29-2012, 06:23 PM)
Rice-Eater's Avatar
Thank you Spooky for your response. You are truly a ambassador for the FGC. Hopefully others can follow your example.
BestInZaWarudo
Junior Member
(02-29-2012, 06:24 PM)
BestInZaWarudo's Avatar

Originally Posted by Sp00ky

I see a lot of discussion in here. I don't really have in interest in talking about this issue publicly because although this happened at Cross Assault, this is more of an issue of people and less of an issue about the show. this just happened to happen at cross assault, but it happens all the time, all over the world.

Aris and Miranda are both very kind, very real people. They were placed into a super high tension situation, and both cracked under pressure.

The main point and issue here is that comments made by Aris added to her tension and pressure. Since those early comments, he apologized to her directly many times, and genuinely seemed concerned for what he had done. His own stress accumulated over the course of the show, and looming over his head the entire time was this issue as well, which im sure added to it. Even he did not realize the scope at which he would be vilified for his comments until we discussed them being talked about on major sites.

Before I continue I would like to point out that yes, there are a lot of OG players with an OG mentality. You could call that an 'old guard' but that isn't really the truth. these guys just enjoy Fighting Games and want to continue enjoying them, and all aspects of why they enjoy them, including the gritty, competitive atmosphere they remember facing in the early days when they first began playing competitively.

What Aris did was wrong. He has sincerely apologized both to Miranda and publicly on Twitter. This is a harsh life lesson for him, someone who enjoys his own uncensored nature, to realize just how bad his words and his egging someone on can hurt another person. In a sense this is about "growing up". and Yes, the scene is growing up, as much as people do not believe it. But it will take a long time for the scene to really come together and understand what growing up is all about. Lessons like this are ones that will need to be learned, so people can see their mistakes and recover from them.

Last year around this time, I made some very controversial statements about evo and level up, which I am sure a lot of you guys remember. though at the time that was how I felt, afterwards i really realized the damage my statements had caused, and I apologized sincerely. It seems to me my apology was accepted, as I was allowed to be a part of the team for evo that year.

All I am saying here is yes Miranda was hurt by what Aris said, but we need to give Aris a chance to recover from this lesson. this is not about removing the R-Rated nature of the FGC, because that to me appears to be unnecessary and is not in my current plan for any of my big events. However it is about also knowing how much damage your words can do to both a person's mind and heart, and also to the scene.

I hope that we can stick together, and all learn this lesson together. Sexual Harassment is a bad thing, and much like things like stealing, & murder, is just in some people's human nature and can never be completely stopped. However if we can make it so people understand both sides I think that will help. Everyone has their own opinions about life and the world, and I do not want to censor their opinion, rather I would like to inform them of the pain a harsher type of thing like harassment/bullying can do to another person, so that perhaps they can understand and change.

I guess this was wordy and not every expressive in the end. Even I have made sexist remarks at times, but over time I've learned to be more sensitive to women, and hopefully others will too. and if they dont choose to, that is their prerogative, but at the least keeping those views private to their own following and not the general public can help.



Well Said Sir Well Said
Last edited by BestInZaWarudo; 02-29-2012 at 06:27 PM.
freenudemacusers
Member
(02-29-2012, 06:25 PM)
freenudemacusers's Avatar

Originally Posted by Rice-Eater

Thank you Spooky for your response. You are truly a ambassador for the FGC. Hopefully others can follow your example.

I need to donate more often to his streams, dude needs to rise to the forefront imo.
djplaeskool
Member
(02-29-2012, 06:26 PM)
djplaeskool's Avatar
Damn. Well said.
Sp00ky 2012
Nabs
(02-29-2012, 06:29 PM)
Nabs's Avatar
I guess someone called Sp00ky. Good shit. Now get some sleep before FR.
notworksafe
Member
(02-29-2012, 06:35 PM)
notworksafe's Avatar

Originally Posted by Lost Fragment

hahaha, wow.

But where are they getting "racist" from? I mean yeah it's' not like Aris doesn't say a ton of racially insensitive shit too, but I don't recall him really going in on that during the show. Did I miss something, or are we just throwing out every terrible adjective we can think of now?

"Next on CNN: meet the racist, sexist, pedophile supporters of fighting games"

Extra adjectives make for better headlines. Can't say I'm shocked this is a boingboing article. Their MO seems to just be reblogging without reading.

EDIT: Well put, Spooky.
PsychoSoldier
Member
(02-29-2012, 06:35 PM)
PsychoSoldier's Avatar
Nicely said, Sp00ky. I sincerely sincerely hope this experience really has changed him, and that it makes the people who cross the line think twice about their actions.

Edit: I think what they're probably referring to is the part where he talks about being racist but having tons of friends of all colors, though that part was pretty incidental in the whole thing.
Doomshine
Member
(02-29-2012, 06:37 PM)
Doomshine's Avatar
Well, that still leaves Miranda who claims that it didn't stop and that people were ignoring the problem. I don't know what to think anymore.

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