[Zeouterlimits]

I don't get the dislike for perks. Sure, you could argue that without perks everyone starts on "equal ground," but really that equality at the beginning of the match lasts for about 5 seconds.

If you're referring to getting to a weapon, both parties have that opportunity, or alternative strategic opportunities. Perks general equal = how long you've playing.

It's kind of a Chess mentality (poor example, but it's midnight), each time you play, each player has access to the same equipment, who wins and loses depends purely on who is better, both being on an equal footing.

[Special J]

I don't get the dislike for perks. Sure, you could argue that without perks everyone starts on "equal ground," but really that equality at the beginning of the match lasts for about 5 seconds. If it's anything like CoD perks, you get a sense of ownership over your MP character and also lets you play out matches in your own unique way.

it has more to do with people being resistant to change. sometimes devs simply have to break the ball and chain and do whats necessary for the franchise to evolve.

[Ken]

If you're referring to getting to a weapon, both parties have that opportunity, or alternative strategic opportunities. Perks general equal = how long you've playing. It's kind of a Chess mentality (poor example, but it's midnight), each time you play, each player has access to the same equipment, who wins and loses depends purely on who is better, both being on an equal footing.

Yeah, I'm referring to how both teams get equal access to all the weapons and the same locations on the map right from the beginning. Once someone gets the high ground or something, there's really no "equality" left in the game.

I don't get your "perks general equal" comment.

[Friedreich]

are you serious? when was the last time you used weapon sights in quake? or went prone? or even crouched? pr used a perk? or got free kills for a kill streak? If there's any console game that embodies the quake arcade style deathmatch it's been halo, with the launch pads, quick scoping sniper, and emphasis on vertical movement. Keep halo what halo was, an arcade shooter, there's no need to make it into something it's not.

Yes I'm serious. CoD is a meat grinder and the gameplay embodies everything Quake was. Having extra abilities or rewards doesn't change that fact. It's an arcadey, twitch shooter with a realism skin.

Halo is closer to Tribes if anything. How are you comparing Halo to Quake?

I mean:

with the launch pads, quick scoping sniper, and emphasis on vertical movement.

Do you even play CoD? Apart from launch pads, these are shared between games.

It seems all your points are nothing but the superficial. Halo = Quake because of the space theme or what?

[Zeouterlimits]

I don't get your "perks general equal" comment.

Sorry, perks generally = how long you've been playing.
Right now, each match is a fresh start for the players, a clean slate if you will.

Throwing perks into that mix changes that quite a bit.

[Einchy]

Halo 2 MP was populated until they took it offline. Guess what. Reach MP started losing to COD because it sucked, not because it needed a stupid unlock system that flashes each time you kill a person

Halo started losing to CoD with 3 and not Reach.

http://majornelson.com/2008/05/06/li...4-28-gta-is-1/

[op_ivy]

Wow you guys are overly sensitive. That is not even really sexist. Sexism would be " freaking broad going screw up everything as usual" My post was a observation I've had over many years. Not just some irrational statement.

lemmie guess, some of your best friends are women?

[Ken]

Sorry, perks generally = how long you've been playing. Right now, each match is a fresh start for the players, a clean slate if you will. Throwing perks into that mix changes that quite a bit.

If they made all the perks balanced well enough, that is a perk 5 minutes into the game is just as viable a perk 50 hours in, then there shouldn't be a problem. That and a decent matchmaking system.

I'd love to see some kind of perk-skill tree/commendation system where you get different perks depending on your play style. Early perks are more general but eventually specialize based on how you play or how you want to allocate "perk points."

[les papillons sexuels]

I don't get the dislike for perks. Sure, you could argue that without perks everyone starts on "equal ground," but really that equality at the beginning of the match lasts for about 5 seconds. If it's anything like CoD perks, you get a sense of ownership over your MP character and also lets you play out matches in your own unique way.

i dont get a snese of ownership playing cod, i get a sense of fustration because my some 12 year old who plays 30 hours a week has better weapons or unlocks. Making me feel useless and making want to ignore the game entirely.

In reach i got a sense of ownership because i could customize how he looked.

Unlocks are just a stupid addiction mechanic to get people to either pay for unlocks, or play more.

When I play an fps game I want a sense of acheivement because I'm the better player, not a false sense of skill because i have the better unlocks. I want to pick up agame on day one, and be playing the same game on day 50. Not playing a regular game on day one, then dealing with 500 new weapon combos and abilities, and stats a week later. Hell, it's what killed tf2 for me.

[Randolph Freelander]

Video talked too much about multiplayer. I'm basically over that, I never played Reach's MP, generally only liked 3 maps in Halo 3, which is about normal for the series, truth be told. Without being able to search for MP experiences I actually enjoy, then it's just a battle of frustration while wading through the crap I can't stand just to get to things I like.

On the SP side, which they talked not too much about, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. I thought the original trilogy really dropped the ball in terms of satisfactorily expanding the narrative, but this is a fresh opportunity. Something a little deeper, something a little darker, something a little more imaginative.

Gameplay wise, I could do with less vehicles. I only played the Reach campaign once, so I honestly do not remember much about it. But beginning with Halo 2, it seems the gameplay has titled a bit too much towards vehicular combat than I would prefer. Halo: CE was fairly limited in terms of vehicles. I would like vehicle-based missions to be similarly de-emphasized in Halo 4, if at all possible.

[Lingitiz]

Halo started losing to CoD with 3 and not Reach. http://majornelson.com/2008/05/06/li...4-28-gta-is-1/

True, but Halo 3 was able to hold its own and reclaim the top spot multiple times.

[Ken]

i dont get a snese of ownership playing cod, i get a sense of fustration because my some 12 year old who plays 30 hours a week has better weapons or unlocks. Making me feel useless and making want to ignore the game entirely. In reach i got a sense of ownership because i could customize how he looked. Unlocks are just a stupid addiction mechanic to get people to either pay for unlocks, or play more. When I play an fps game I want a sense of acheivement because I'm the better player, not a false sense of skill because i have the better unlocks. I want to pick up agame on day one, and be playing the same game on day 50. Not playing a regular game on day one, then dealing with 500 new weapon combos and abilities, and stats. Hell, it's what killed tf2 for me.

I was only referring to perks, not weapons. Locked weapons are silly. Balanced perks are fine.

[ViewtifulJC]

Is it bad bad that soon as a saw the woman producer I thought to myself" well this will suck" I feel bad for thinking that but its probably true..

what the fuck

I mean

what the FUCK!?

[Computron]

You need to get on auto gaf and tell them how archaic stick shift is. God speed.

Manual Worthog, CONFIRMED.

[Postman]

what the fuck I mean what the FUCK!?

Now read the next 10 post. :/

[Stripper13]

This is confusing. The franchise closest to Quake this gen is COD but you're implying it's Halo. (It's so not)

Is this a joke? Have you even played Quake?

Halo is about as close to the Quake/UT arena shooters as it gets - especially among the formidable shooter franchises. More importantly however, I can't think of anything in COD that is similar to Quake - except for the engine.

[Tashi]

Yeah, I'm referring to how both teams get equal access to all the weapons and the same locations on the map right from the beginning. Once someone gets the high ground or something, there's really no "equality" left in the game. I don't get your "perks general equal" comment.

What I like about Halo now is that I know what guns people are going to be using. It's about how well you can use that gun to get into position to control the map.

For Halo 4, I would imagine that there will be a few all purpose guns (BR, DMR, AR(lol) Carbine. Things like that) and your custom class will let you choose which one you want to use. Maybe there will be a few secondary pistols that you can choose for your loadout as well.

[les papillons sexuels]

I was only referring to perks, not weapons. Locked weapons are silly. Balanced perks are fine.

no they're not though. One player has extra health, another has extra grenades, or runs slightly faster, or recharges sheilds faster, it's broken.

Without consitency in fire fights then there's no way to tell who actually deserves the kill, and the game falls into a shit fest of randomness. It's like armor lock right now and melee, it just feels broken.

[Shake Appeal]

Just a few days ago, in the community forum, I was saying how refreshing and exciting it was to see so many women in high-ranking positions on the 343i staff.

And then I come here and read what GAF has to say about it.

Ugh.

[ViewtifulJC]

Now read the next 10 post. :/

uh

Wow you guys are overly sensitive. That is not even really sexist. Sexism would be " freaking broad going screw up everything as usual" My post was a observation I've had over many years. Not just some irrational statement.

Not really sexist.. Just every game I have seen with woman producers almost always end up being boring as all hell and unfocused. Assassin's creed is a good example.

my position remains: WHAT THE FUCK!?

[Jack Scofield]

i dont get a snese of ownership playing cod, i get a sense of fustration because my some 12 year old who plays 30 hours a week has better weapons or unlocks. Making me feel useless and making want to ignore the game entirely. In reach i got a sense of ownership because i could customize how he looked. Unlocks are just a stupid addiction mechanic to get people to either pay for unlocks, or play more. When I play an fps game I want a sense of acheivement because I'm the better player, not a false sense of skill because i have the better unlocks. I want to pick up agame on day one, and be playing the same game on day 50. Not playing a regular game on day one, then dealing with 500 new weapon combos and abilities, and stats a week later. Hell, it's what killed tf2 for me.

Sounds like you're just extremely resistant to change. The starting weapons in COD4 and MW2 (the two best games in the franchise) were widely regarded as the best in the game. Map control, identifying where enemy players are, and knowledge of map movement is what separated the good COD players from the bad, just like in Halo (!!!).

As a low-level player in COD4 or MW2, I can run circles around most tenth-prestige players. Unlocks don't mean shit as long as they're well thought-out and handed-out decently.

You just come across as someone who goes into apoplexy whenever the thought of COD enters your mind.

[_woLf]

I want the .mp3 for the music that is playing the background of the ViDoc.

SO.

BAD.

[derFeef]

Wow I have no words, how can anyone think that, and then even post and defend it. Jesus christ almight this is... I dunno, it's so sad. Maybe this needs to take care of because I don't want to see stuff like this here :/

[Cranzor]

Wow, I'm impressed. I'm glad the BR is back. It looks like the game actually has some color too. Can't wait until it comes out.

[les papillons sexuels]

Sounds like you're just extremely resistant to change. The starting weapons in COD4 and MW2 (the two best games in the franchise) were widely regarded as the best in the game. Map control, identifying where enemy players are, and knowledge of map movement is what separated the good COD players from the bad, just like in Halo (!!!). As a low-level player in COD4 or MW2, I can run circles around most tenth-prestige players. Unlocks don't mean shit as long as they're well thought-out and handed-out decently. You just come across as someone who goes into apoplexy whenever the thought of COD enters your mind.

so you've never died to martyrdom?

this perk alone explains every issue with the unlock system.

[Friedreich]

Is this a joke? Have you even played Quake? Halo is about as close to the Quake/UT arena shooters as it gets - especially among the formidable shooter franchises. More importantly however, I can't think of anything in COD that is similar to Quake - except for the engine.

Ah geez

So are guys saying these things because both are set in space or what? CoD, especially since MW2, has been an arcadey, fast paced twitch shooter relying a lot on instant relfexes not unlike Quake. Mind you, nothing about the multiplayer as of late is even close to realistic.


Halo is a slower paced, more methodical shooter much like Quake because pew pew pew?

[kittens]

Wow you guys are overly sensitive. That is not even really sexist. Sexism would be " freaking broad going screw up everything as usual" My post was a observation I've had over many years. Not just some irrational statement.

You said that when you saw Kiki, you immediately thought the game would be worse because of her involvement. You said that a game would be worse because a woman is involved. Games with women devs are worse because...? I won't even try to follow your logic, cause there is none. Straight up sexist bullshit. Woman = bad game? GTFO.

From the first time I saw Kiki speak, she struck me as an intelligent, totally capable part of the 343 team, and honestly, I'm fucking thrilled to hear that a woman is involved in the upper level development process.

Yea, thats what comes in my mind too when I see a women at helm of video game. They always come with lines like "So we really want to get the emotions out of the players. To feel the connection with game character and great story we are delivering. Thats why we included kinect exclusive petting mini game which enhance already amazing cinematic emotional journey of the game".

What the hell are you talking about? Somehow you managed to make your sexism even less sensical than Postman.

[Postman]

uh my position remains: WHAT THE FUCK!?

Like I said on the flip side I think woman make better art directors on games. They tend to be more into the details in animations and atmosphere .

[Shake Appeal]

Wow you guys are overly sensitive. That is not even really sexist. Sexism would be " freaking broad going screw up everything as usual"

No, that would be outright misogyny. What you were doing was discriminating on the basis of sex, suggesting that women make unfocused and boring games, and do so because they are women. Hint: that's sexist.

[derFeef]

Like I said on the flip side I think woman make better art directors on games. They tend to be more into the details in animations and atmosphere .

So you are sexist about men and woman, good job.
*shakes head*

[The Antitype]

This is a stupid argument.

COD shares it's pacing with Quake, Halo shares it's balance with Quake.

Neither of them are perfect replicas, they're branching genetic paths from the foundation that Quake lay.


As for the perks, I could see them working if there was a heavy balance with them.

Say, there's an armor upgrade. You take more damage, you can't jump as high and you move noticeably slower.

Or a speed upgrade that makes your shields weaker.

Stuff like that is fine, and so is armor abilities IMO, so long as those armor abilities are all available from the start, and are all clearly identifiable from across the map.

[Stinkles]

What's more concerning is all the negativity over perks with no response from Frankie who is just watching it all unfold. Unsettling to say the least. If they really do CoDify Halo, that could spell the end on the MP side of things.

I've responded to it a couple of times. There aren't "perks" in the game as being described here. And classic Halo is still there. But there are things we will be rolling out soon to put all of this discussion in a much better perspective and I suspect calm frayed nerves.

[Jack Scofield]

so you've never died to martyrdom? this perk alone explains every issue with the unlock system.

A handful of times, mostly when I first started playing the game. Luckily the game provides you with a handy audio clue to let you know that a grenade was dropped, as well as a visual grenade indicator when you get too close. Just don't mindless rush into the person you just killed and you'll be fine.

If a dog can respond to Pavlovian training so can you. It's not hard.

[les papillons sexuels]

Ah geez So are guys saying these things because both are set in space or what? CoD, especially since MW2, has been an arcadey, fast paced twitch shooter relying a lot on instant relfexes not unlike Quake. Mind you, nothing about the multiplayer as of late is even close to realistic. Halo is a slower paced, more methodical shooter much like Quake because pew pew pew?

you're the only one talking about the aesthetic. I'm talking about player movement, the lack of iron sights, the lack of prone position, the overall increase in speed, the verticality of maps, the time it takes to kill a player, the twitch shooting, and in halo 3 even how equipment and power-ups were used.

A handful of times, mostly when I first started playing the game. Luckily the game provides you with a handy audio clue to let you know that a grenade was dropped, as well as a visual grenade indicator when you get too close. Just don't mindless rush into the person you just killed and you'll be fine. If a dog can respond to Pavlovian training so can you. It's not hard.

regardless of whether you get a cue to the grenade. That fact remains you earned the kill and he didn't, he got it because he has a perk that gives it to him.

The more crap you thow in a ring, the less consistent the game is, and if the game lacks consistency, how do determine what skills are worth learning. The perk system in cod kills any real sense of competition, as does the weapons in tf2. As does any unlock in any other game that changes the base mechanics.

[kittens]

No, that would be outright misogyny. What you were doing was discriminating on the basis of sex, suggesting that women make unfocused and boring games, and do so because they are women. Hint: that's sexist.

Yup.

I've responded to it a couple of times. There aren't "perks" in the game. And classic Halo is still there. But there are things we will be rolling out soon to put all of this discussion in a much better perspective and I suspect calm frayed nerves.

In Frankie I (Tentatively) Trust.

Thanks for being patient with us. Must be an exhausting day, haha.

[Postman]

You said that when you saw Kiki, you immediately thought the game would be worse because of her involvement. You said that a game would be worse because a woman is involved. Games with women devs are worse because...? I won't even try to follow your logic, cause there is none. Straight up sexist bullshit. Woman = bad game? GTFO.

I didn't say because a woman was involved I said when it said "producer".
I wont repeat myself anyone can go back a read through the post not just jump to conclusions or you can just keep twisting it.

[LAUGHTREY]

"Now I'm not sayin' I'm sexist, but I've never seen a woman make a good game."

You're a fucking moron. The worst part is you don't even realize it.

[Cheesecakebobby]

Could be worse. She could be bla-

No. No no no.

[ViewtifulJC]

But there are things we will be rolling out soon to put all of this discussion in a much better perspective and I suspect calm frayed nerves.

very well then

"Now I'm not sayin' I'm sexist, but I've never seen a woman make a good game." You're a fucking moron. The worst part is you don't even realize it.

I'd edit that if I was you, even though its hard to disagree with

[kittens]

I didn't say because a woman was involved I said when it said "producer".

As long as women are sandwhich makers it's no big deal. Women producers = bad game, gotcha. Or, let's phrase your implications in another way: Kiki Wolfkill is a bad producer because she's a woman.

Could be worse. She could be bla- No. No no no.

Not even fucking funny, god damn.

[Dax01]

I've responded to it a couple of times. There aren't "perks" in the game as being described here. And classic Halo is still there. But there are things we will be rolling out soon to put all of this discussion in a much better perspective and I suspect calm frayed nerves.

I'm definitely interested in hearing more. Thanks, Frank.

[Teppic]

Perks are awful. That's all.

[Postman]

"Now I'm not sayin' I'm sexist, but I've never seen a woman make a good game." You're a fucking moron. The worst part is you don't even realize it.

Who said that!?

[Devolution]

Wow you guys are overly sensitive. That is not even really sexist. Sexism would be " freaking broad going screw up everything as usual" My post was a observation I've had over many years. Not just some irrational statement.

It's fucking sexist. How are you still here and still able to defend such a remark?

[Friedreich]

This is a stupid argument. COD shares it's pacing with Quake, Halo shares it's balance with Quake. Neither of them are perfect replicas, they're branching genetic paths from the foundation that Quake lay.

How incredibly reductionist of you. Calling other people's discussion stupid must be so easy when sitting on the fence!

[Grisby]

I've responded to it a couple of times. There aren't "perks" in the game as being described here. And classic Halo is still there. But there are things we will be rolling out soon to put all of this discussion in a much better perspective and I suspect calm frayed nerves.

Good to hear.

[LAUGHTREY]

Who said that!?

Stop bububu-ing, stop backpedaling, stop trying to clarify your medieval sentiment, just fucking leave.

Just shut up. Just go.

[NullPointer]

If a dog can respond to Pavlovian training so can you. It's not hard.

This needs to be a boxquote, stat.

[op_ivy]

I've responded to it a couple of times. There aren't "perks" in the game as being described here. And classic Halo is still there. But there are things we will be rolling out soon to put all of this discussion in a much better perspective and I suspect calm frayed nerves.

yay. also, 3d screenshots?

[The Antitype]

How incredibly reductionist of you. Calling other people's discussion stupid must be so easy when sitting on the fence!

If the fence is where the people who are right sit, then yes, I'm right there on the fence.

Things Quake and COD share:

Speed of movement
Duration of player encounters/battles


Things Halo and Quake share:

Weapons must be fought over and picked up to be used
Maps are built around weapon spawns, and the battles that take place for them
Map control is therefore an integral part of playing the game, unlike COD