[Natty1]

Anyone knows who was the 'japanese dev'? I'm starting to think that this was a stunt to promote that Indie dev movie they are shooting.. What if the entire thing was staged?

Could be this guy?

http://twitter.com/#!/SquashSesame

Japan GAF would have to confirm.

[Zefah]

Could be this guy? http://twitter.com/#!/SquashSesame Japan GAF would have to confirm.

Nice find! Definitely looks like that's the guy.

[SatelliteOfLove]

I don't think I've said this in this thread yet because I didn't want to get caught up in another bitchfest, but I think the biggest double-edged sword for Japanese gaming recently has been the lack of iteration compared to the west. When one shooter does something really useful, everybody else making shooters will copy it, which has allowed the genre to collectively make several quantum leaps in the last 20 years. Modern Warfare looks and feels in a whole other world from Wolfenstein 3D. JRPGs or shmups however, collectively haven't changed nearly as much in the same amount of time. Playing Chrono Trigger for the first time a couple years ago, it still does a lot of things better than most JRPGs released in the 17 years since. The upside to that for the Japanese though is that their genres, like JRPGs and adventure games, tend to feel a lot more varied than shooters do right now. If the industry had learned from CT back in the day, or FFXII recently, I don't think we'd be having all these complaints about JRPGs today, but then again we'd probably be complaining about how similarly they all play. I think this applies to the tech side of things too. Iterative middleware has allowed western devs to blaze past the Japanese, who until recently mostly built each game on its own engine. On the other hand, that allowed their games to look a lot more distinct from one another.

You saw this post back in the day too, huh?

You cant fault the jrpg genre for not being unique. Every game is drastically different from the last. There are alot more varity in the jrpg genre than most. The problem with the genre is that they never seem to learn anything from what they or someone else did. There are thus very little progression. Its like they never analyses what works and what dont work. And when they make the next game. they throw everything out and start from scratch. The opposite of the jrpg genre is fps. Its probably the most progressive genre out there. If someone comes up with an new cool thing. Like say sniper rifle. You can be sure as hell that not only the sequel will have a sniper rifle but just about every game in the genre will have a sniper mode. The leads to the genre feeling samey, but it also means the genre constantly make huge advances (in an undefined direction), so much so that relatively new games can feel completely dated. If fps way of making games where applied to jrpgs. Things like separate screens for battles, random battles, seperate screens for maps etc etc would be long gone. The genre would have taken off with the things chrone trigger had, a cohesive world and enhanced it.

And it's one hundred percent correct.

Other than that I would say that Japan's main weakness is that they don't have the money to compete with the big western studios. It's like the Japanese film industry going up against Hollywood. They'll give you some creative stuff, but not with the same production value.

This too. (Granted, this too has been said before, but it's too complex a concept to directly refute the rush to circle-jerk Fish).

[stupei]

The idea -- seemingly repeated several times throughout this thread -- that the FPS genre evolves more than the JRPG is literally mind boggling to me. It feels like a lot of people don't bother to understand JRPG combat systems and how iterative they can be.

It's like saying, "American cinema is so much more innovative than German cinema. All of those actors still speak in German in EVERY MOVIE. Can you believe how little progress they've made?" It's incredibly reductive and seemingly only a very surface level assessment of the genre.

[Zefah]

Reading Hiro's Twitter (as well as the feeds of other Japanese people that spoke with Hiro), and I really feel sorry for him even more.

Apparently he paid his own way to come to GDC for the first time so he could hear some great talks and learn new things. He studied English hardcore beforehand, and even switched his language at home to English just to practice for the conference. Then, on his first day at GDC, he works up his courage to ask Fish a question, and gets berated like that.

Anyway, the guy seems like he's really nice. The response really got to him, though. He posted at 3:00am the night of the incident saying he couldn't sleep.

[Curufinwe]

Is Hiro this guy, or someone else?

https://twitter.com/#!/SquashSesame

[RomanticHeroX]

That does seem to be the guy's Twitter account. Here's some more information about it.

Seems like the man behind the question that sent @PHIL_FISH's twitter feed ablaze has a twitter account: @squashsesame There was a small interview released with him in the JP press today... Didn't understand the comment immediately but "got it" from seeing everyone else's reaction. Was his first GDC, paid for with his own money

[Zefah]

Is Hiro this guy, or someone else? https://twitter.com/#!/SquashSesame

That's him.

[SatelliteOfLove]

Reading Hiro's Twitter (as well as the feeds of other Japanese people that spoke with Hiro), and I really feel sorry for him even more. Apparently he paid his own way to come to GDC for the first time so he could hear some great talks and learn new things. He studied English hardcore beforehand, and even switched his language at home to English just to practice for the conference. Then, on his first day at GDC, he works up his courage to ask Fish a question, and gets berated like that. Anyway, the guy seems like he's really nice. The response really got to him, though. He posted at 3:00am the night of the incident saying he couldn't sleep.

"Buh buh buh, Japanese games are teh suxxorz, doncha get it?!?"

I'd like for him to show his side of the event, but it would be hard to get a foreign interview with him, I'd think after this and all the ball-washing going on of his insulter.

[Curufinwe]

Well, hopefully the publicity he's getting from this incident will actually benefit him in some way.

[RedSwirl]

The idea -- seemingly repeated several times throughout this thread -- that the FPS genre evolves more than the JRPG is literally mind boggling to me. It feels like a lot of people don't bother to understand JRPG combat systems and how iterative they can be. It's like saying, "American cinema is so much more innovative than German cinema. All of those actors still speak in German in EVERY MOVIE. Can you believe how little progress they've made?" It's incredibly reductive and seemingly only a very surface level assessment of the genre.

I mean, JRPG combat systems can be very iterative within each franchise, but they very rarely influence the genre as a whole.

[LiquidSolid]

uh, I was talking about times when "controversial" stuff happened in the game industry, to which gaf reacted with negative threads/boycotts/etc., then game goes on to do just fine. Usually these revolve around DLC issues, maybe some tech issues, though there have been things like the COD F.A.G.S incident. I'm not the type to go do intensive search engine research over these things, but any long time member can tell you about gaf's usually-impotent outrage. <------(avatar) also, Phil Fish in 50 years holy shit!!!

Gamecock, Hot Coffee Mod, BMX XXX, Bulletstorm and Six Days in Fallujah. Do you think any of the controversies sparked around these were beneficial?

Series like GTA and COD can shrug off controversy because they're already established and hugely popular series, whereas Fish is relatively unknown and quickly making his name moreso for being a dick than a good game designer. Anyone with half a brain could see that that's an idiotic idea.

[geebee]

Gamecock, Hot Coffee Mod, BMX XXX, Bulletstorm and Six Days in Fallujah. Do you think any of the controversies sparked around these were beneficial? Series like GTA and COD can shrug off controversy because they're already established and hugely popular series, whereas Fish is relatively unknown and quickly making his name moreso for being a dick than a good game designer. Anyone with half a brain could see that that's an idiotic idea.

Digging deep in the archives, there... totally forgot about that game. What a terrible concept for a game lol.

[BlazingDarkness]

Reading Hiro's Twitter (as well as the feeds of other Japanese people that spoke with Hiro), and I really feel sorry for him even more. Apparently he paid his own way to come to GDC for the first time so he could hear some great talks and learn new things. He studied English hardcore beforehand, and even switched his language at home to English just to practice for the conference. Then, on his first day at GDC, he works up his courage to ask Fish a question, and gets berated like that. Anyway, the guy seems like he's really nice. The response really got to him, though. He posted at 3:00am the night of the incident saying he couldn't sleep.

Wow, that is awful

Fuck Fish.

[EmCeeGramr]

Is this the guy, then? http://jp.linkedin.com/pub/makoto-goto/1a/212/4a3

[LiquidSolid]

Digging deep in the archives, there... totally forgot about that game. What a terrible concept for a game lol.

It was mentioned in a thread somewhat recently so was fresh in the mind. It got a ton of controversy and sold like crap so it's a pretty good example of controversy that really didn't pay off.

[HiroProtagonist]

[Wiggler]

Fuck Fish.

This video has never been more appropriate until now.

[GeoramA]

Reading Hiro's Twitter (as well as the feeds of other Japanese people that spoke with Hiro), and I really feel sorry for him even more. Apparently he paid his own way to come to GDC for the first time so he could hear some great talks and learn new things. He studied English hardcore beforehand, and even switched his language at home to English just to practice for the conference. Then, on his first day at GDC, he works up his courage to ask Fish a question, and gets berated like that. Anyway, the guy seems like he's really nice. The response really got to him, though. He posted at 3:00am the night of the incident saying he couldn't sleep.

That's awful. I feel terrible for the guy.

Stay classy Fish and the people defending his sorry ass.

[RomanticHeroX]

Learning about that guy does tie a nice little bow on the incident. He's apparently been quietly working in the industry for two decades, saved money and made the commitment to travel abroad to improve his craft, then the only reason his name becomes known is for being publicly insulted. This will blow over, he'll go on and spend another two decades making games without getting much attention, while Fish continues to be an indie darling and may even release a game or two.

[milesdm]

Leave the fella alone.





This is silly.

[Zefah]

Found the article where Hiro was interviewed:

http://gadget.itmedia.co.jp/gg/artic...8/news098.html

At the end he asks the interviewer to not turn the article into something that bashes Phil or the industry.

Learning about that guy does tie a nice little bow on the incident. He's apparently been quietly working in the industry for two decades, saved money and made the commitment to travel abroad to improve his craft, then the only reason his name becomes known is for being publicly insulted. This will blow over, he'll go on and spend another two decades making games without getting much attention, while Fish continues to be an indie darling and may even release a game or two.

Hiro says he wants to take Phil's comments back to Japan and use them as motivation to develop better games. He says he personally interpreted Phil's comment as a kind of encouragement (a cheer) to Japanese developers.

Also, apparently Hiro didn't leave the room after the panel was done answering, he just changed seats to get out of the spotlight.

[geebee]

..and the backpedaling begins? I wonder if Microsoft had a word with him.

[Zoramon089]

This is silly.

He does have a point...it's basically Crush with an awesome art style

But honestly, he could have said much worse...at least he didn't call for the complete genocide of all japanese

[BlazingDarkness]

It's too late now, maybe Fish should hold his tongue next time.
Sure he may have apologized but he also went onto Twitter and fired off a load of detestable messages to people, making himself look like an egotistical tosser
No sympathy from me

[Mik2121]

After reading some more, apparently Phil Fish apologized right after the comment and the actual answer itself was more extended. Then again, I'm getting this info from his own twitter feed (which is also full of pretty over the top and out there replies to other people...).

Either way, insulting the whole Japanese industry just like that isn't the smartest thing to do when you've spent over 4 years on a title that's not really all that unique.

[stupei]

He's saying on his twitter feed that he apologized... when it's obvious on that very same feed that he wasn't remotely sorry for saying it a second time at least and in fact tried to score a few more points making even more jokes about the whole thing immediately after.

That is until it was him being publicly ridiculed, now suddenly he has remorse and has expressed it multiple times. It's just not fair of us to say anything without the full context surrounding the thing he chose to repeat on twitter. He keeps making snide jokes and blaming other people for being so mean instead of, you know, actually sounding like he regrets being a dick to someone.

What's funny is when I saw him cry accepting his award last night I thought he seemed genuinely moved and expected him to be a little humbled and sincere on twitter after. Instead he invited everyone to suck his dick. Boy did I misjudge that one.

[RomanticHeroX]

Hiro says he wants to take Phil's comments back to Japan and use them as motivation to develop better games. He says he personally interpreted Phil's comment as a kind of encouragement (a cheer) to Japanese developers. Also, apparently Hiro didn't leave the room after the panel was done answering, he just changed seats to get out of the spotlight.

I was definitely being facetious with that, but I think you can make a pretty funny narrative that way. And I'm not at all surprised with his gracious reaction. I'm glad there was a positive takeaway.

[Kade]

Two Minutes Hate over?

[Codeblue]

Fish must be pretty brave to publicly talk down to Makoto Goto.

I'm surprised he can still walk.

[Curufinwe]

..and the backpedaling begins? I wonder if Microsoft had a word with him.

You think some people forwarded his tweet telling that guy to suck his dick until he chokes to Major Nelson and co?

[DaBuddaDa]

That's all I wanted to see come out of this. It doesn't excuse anything, but it's the best you can ask for.

[Codeblue]

I'm glad he got to apologize directly to the guy. Everyone's minds are made up on Fish and everything there is to say has been said. I think an apology closes this out nicely.

I think the internet also deserves a pat on the back for being angry at someone and not sending a death threat for once, even if this did get out of hand.

[keit4]

Wow, this thread is embarrassing. GAF at his low.

[Zefah]

Wow, this thread is embarrassing. GAF at his low.

This kind of stuff really bothers me.

You're a part of GAF, too. It's not some single entity or hivemind.

[Kandrick]

Wow, this thread is embarrassing. GAF at his low.

Nice avatar.

[blind51de]

I mean, JRPG combat systems can be very iterative within each franchise, but they very rarely influence the genre as a whole.

Which brings me to my exaggerated post from before. Most JRPGs are based on Dragon Quest in some fashion or another. Emphasis on a stylized storyline, less freeform gameplay, less depth, reliance on gimmicks. It is Japan's king-shit videogame franchise.
Dragon Quest : JRPG :: Call of Duty : Shooters
Except Dragon Quest has been around for over 25 years.
WRPGs have problems of their own, of course.

[LiK]

That's all I wanted to see come out of this. It doesn't excuse anything, but it's the best you can ask for.

Aaaaannnddd scene.

[Cipherr]

Nice avatar.

LOL!

Anyways, he finally tweeted what he should have tweeted when this all started instead of fanning the flames. We should lock this thread now.

[EmCeeGramr]

That's all I wanted to see come out of this. It doesn't excuse anything, but it's the best you can ask for.

Was that really so hard? Maybe he'll actually call him by his name instead of "Japanese dude."

He's still trying to act like he's a victim in all this, but what can you do.

[angelfly]

Good to see he apologized (thanks to the internet backlash) but it doesn't at all change what I think of him.

[Jasper Avenue]

Just realized that Game Informer actually did a post about this incident. Respect to them for not ignoring it like the other nuthugging/ballwashing games press out there.

[GillianSeed79]

That's all I wanted to see come out of this. It doesn't excuse anything, but it's the best you can ask for.

After reading about the Japanese dude I felt even worse for the guy. But at least Fish apologized. To be fair, none of us were actually at that GDC panel, but he could have saved himself a lot of hate by Tweeting this first instead of the initial but your games are still fucking terrible Tweet. I'm not even a huge fan of Japanese games these days, but I almost wish I knew Japanese just to Tweet the Japanese guy that not all Americans are so blunt/dicks in public settings.

[Riposte]

He may be a tasteless annoying individual, but at least he apologized. (I suppose it doesn't solve what really bugs me... That untested indies are treated so highly, maybe higher than all but the most revered gaming developers. That's a gaming media / GDC issue.)

Wow, this thread is embarrassing. GAF at his low.

Well, at least we know where you stand.


EDIT: Eurogamer made a post too. I like that site as far game journos go.

I mean, JRPG combat systems can be very iterative within each franchise, but they very rarely influence the genre as a whole.

Final Fantasy is definitely not a series you could say that is true and it is probably the main representative of the genre in the west. People who try to tell me X, XI, XII, and XIII (and I guess XIV, though it is XI-ish) are all the same make me lol.

[jett]

lol at the backpedaling. Screw his bullshit "apologies", we know what the guy really is.

[wolfmat]

Can't believe this went over two days until he clarified instead of posting weirdly agressive retorts (I guess they were meant to be funny, but I didn't get it).
I mean, come on: The press reported about it, big chunks of the gaming world completely freaked out, and he's taking days to deal with this appropriately? How is this possible?

In the meantime, Jonathan Blow lays his points out on a Gamespot video. That's how you say something meaningful in the right way. It's not rocket science. Phil even had the spotlight to get his point across, and I'm sure it would've been worthwhile to hear what he has to say. But no, "you weren't there" and that's it.

And sure, fuckin' try to make me look like a moralist dick nerd weeaboo for posting on GAF about how I wasn't down with the tone. That sure is necessary and keeps the discussion level-headed.

I'm happy with the way it went though. And I've learned a lot from this. Always be polite, be respectful, make your arguments count instead of your manners. It's a huge differentiator.

I'd still like it if he clarified because the topic itself isn't trivial, and it's not unimportant. (I'm of his opinion to a huge degree when it comes to repeated design decisions that really shine through in the majority of Japanese games, but I think our arguments are different.)

[angelfly]

lol at the backpedaling. Screw his bullshit "apologies", we know what the guy really is.

Yup, had people not gotten angry he wouldn't have bothered.

[DukeTogo1300]

Not good enough Phil. You should give Japanese dude a free copy of your game. Fixed.

Ok, I'm done now, glad he apologized.

[PK Gaming]

So it seems after flaunting and revelling in the controversy he started he started backpedling in order to cover his own ass. Reading hiro's story was heartbreaking too so...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y410S...utu.be&t=1m13s

[Big One]

The "taken out of context" shit is complete BS, even someone on the panel mention how freaking sad the Japanese dude was. The Japanese dude was clearly shot down and he left the room after that. There's nothing out of context about that and Fish was being a very obvious douchebag.