Pssst, we donít need to agree, but I just like having a discussion/debate cause itís fun and you can always learn something from someone elseís opinions. Also, i'm pretty sure at this point we're watching/watched the show with completely different standards. (and well, everyone has a pretty different definition of enjoyment) (Also, it's definitely a good show, but to me it's not a great show, imo)
Originally Posted by A Black Falcon
As for the below reply, apart from the part about Texhnolyze, I don't know if there's even one sentence of this post which I could agree with at all, which is why I took so long to decide if I wanted to actually reply or not...
That part was expanded? Well then, they did a great job in expanding on it, and it definitely adds something to the series. Making that part longer was a good idea indeed. :)
I disagree but thatís just opinion at this point (and most of our differences are, and thatís totally cool by me, cause you know, half the words we throw around have no real solid application and are shades of grey). You can easily tell what doesnít belong though.
That's not true at all, until they figured out who she was there was some definite tension there.
The introduction of Gruier from being an unknown threat to revealing who she was and that she was no harm
(and I went back to watch the end of 7 to the start of 8 and time it) lasted roughly a whole ~3:25. Maybe we have different concepts how of long things should take to build to be appropriate tension
, but I donít think that ~3:25 is a long enough duration for me to feel the kind of tension
you obviously felt. Even from the start she was trapped/locked herself in, and the bridge already knew she had no explosives or anything to do major damage judging by how fast she answered Marika in response to the threat. In addition to that, at the end of episode 7 they also identified that it was a child with no mechanical or electronic noise. It was never anything of serious consequence to the crewís lives.
I can agree that using it as a cliffhanger was effective, but other than that, it was played off quickly, and was establish in that previous episode that they had nothing to cause collateral damage to the ship on their person.
Which part are you talking about? The cruise with the girls, before she moved to the Bentenmaru? They were certainly in danger. You're either misremembering, intentionally ignoring stuff because you don't like the show, or something else, but while they weren't in real danger most of the time, in the final episode of that arc, they absolutely were in real danger, and the rest of the girls reacted appropriately once they relealized it -- up to that point they'd thought it wasn't anything that could actually be harmful, but once the other ship started shooting all of them except for Marika and Chiaki got scared... if one of those shots had hit them, as it certainly could, they'd have been in a lot of trouble.
Marika, of course, calmly figured out what to do and won the fight, but there was definite danger. The buildup from the initial cyber-attack to the final battle were done very well, as the tension slowly built...
If you're talking about something on the Bentenmaru, what you're saying there would make even less sense, of course.
Iím not ignoring any of it, I just didnít think Iíd have to write it all out.
For the first one on the cruise; They literally had backup the entire time (because you know, you gotta watch the future inheritorís backs), and once shots started to fly at them, both parent vessels moved in to take care of it quickly. Also, they were in a fortified ex-pirate ship of the original 7 that were/are galactically famous, with all working systems still in tact (I think it was 7, right?). From the way they played up the greatness of the original 7, I highly doubt a couple shots with unassisted firing from an extreme distance wouldíve done enough damage to kill everyone on the ship and ruin it. Not to mention they purposefully threw themselves into danger by avoiding calling the responsible authorities right away when they knew something could be up. We knew the electronic attacks wouldnít work before they even started (as far as electronic warfare went) because we got a ~2 minute tutorial on how a dummy system works before they made it. We knew right when they discussed electronic warfare against this enemy that anything the enemy would do would be ineffective. They knew/had an inkling and planned for the danger that was gonna be there in advance because of the events around the first tutorial on electronic warfare in the port. All of these revelations and happenings ruin what good they had building up at all.
Also, some of the setup in there was not good. Why do they constantly have Marika make decisions even though sheís not the highest-ranking person on the ship? It seemed kind of forced that they were purposefully trying to hone her ďcaptain sensesĒ the whole arc, which is why I have a problem with the deviation from them just being flashbacks (cause you can totally tell what was forced in).
This is all true, but while its style is different, Space Pirates also does a good job of making a slow pace work brilliantly. But yeah, with Texhnolyze at least you're right.
Agreed (but I think Space Pirates doesnít utilize the medium enough as a storytelling mechanic enough). Thereís so much potential that they havenít used that I canít help but feel the anime inferior to the LNs.
There have been plenty of moments in the show which make good use of the visual medium, though -- Marika's first spacewalk and the scene that follows (one of my favorite parts of the eps 2-5 arc), for instance, or more recently, the tense, creaky journey through the space storms and rival fleet threats in ep. 11. The show has great visuals when it wants to, or when they have the budget for it or something. It is often slower and character-focused, but it's almost all done very well, so that's not a problem at all.
I don't know how good the novels are though, I haven't read them. Oh, and as for my complaints about the show, as I've said before I don't like the blatantly anime element of her of course working at a maid cafe (classy-style one, sure, but still a maid cafe), and that Marika's a somewhat generic protagonist. Also, while I and everyone else have often compared it to Star Trek, it is slower than Star Trek, and much more serial as opposed to episodic. I think the style works great almost all of the time, but it is a difference.
Sure, itís pretty to look at (and yeah, space is cool), but what was the importance of that scene? What purpose did it serve in the arc and what did it supplement to the overall arc itself? What visually was it supposed to convey that writing could not? The point Iím trying to make is that while yes, eyecandy is awesome (and the LNs arenít colored much, so cool here too), the visuals in the show rarely do anything to forward the narrative. It has that advantage being in an anime form, but rarely does it ever use it to do so, and I would totally love it if they could (because of the separation of sound and visuals, you can convey multiple narratives at once, which rarely happens here). The show is rather cross-cut, and I think it can afford to expand it's dimensions way more instead of sticking to one plane the entire time.
I watched about half of Nadesico years ago, and thought it was alright to good, but not incredibly great, and obviously not quite interesting enough to stick with and finish... maybe I'll go back sometime, I'm not sure. The two series are very different, though -- that's a harem action sci-fi show, while this is something quite different from that, classier and with a better plot and without Nadesico's definite tonal dissonance (or harem elements and generic action/mecha focus). I'm not much of a mecha fan, but love scifi shows like Star Trek, so I think it's fantastic that Bodacious Space Pirates is a much more Star Trek-ish sci-fi show, instead of yet another probably boring mecha series (not talking about Nadesico in specific there, just generally).
I only used Nadesico because it has technobabble (which is always introduced rather unobtrusively on the greater flow of the show), spacefaring in a space ship, how the crew deals with relatively grey issues, foreign worlds, world building, a bridge and crew (each with a specific specialties, and with order superiority; the captain being at the top), and well, the sci-fi-ness (and because Iím almost done with it). Nadesicoís delivery of a lot of these elements is really subtle most of the time, and is usually covered up by action, hijinks, etc., but the underlying themes in each episode are always really interesting (once you realize that theyíre totally in there I had to do some double-takes just to come to the full realization that yes, that really happened).
On the note of my issues with the show, I do find the fact that the ship requires a child of teh captain to be captain to be one of its problems, yes. Classic Carribean pirate captains were very definitely not things to be inherited; indeed, it was usually an elected office. And yet here while otherwise they take the style from that era, randomly it's made inherited. I do find that kind of stupid.
As for her ability, though, she clearly is a very good tactical thinker, which is why it's not just nepotism -- she has the ability to be captain. She clearly inherited her parents' skill at captaining, and it's shown from the first episode that she's a good spaceflight tactician as well. She is clearly better at it than any of her crew members. Less experienced, but with more upward potential. She doesn't just suddenly learn anything, either -- she knows the basics of space flight from the beginning, thanks to her Yacht Club, and learns the rest through study. I mean, she's not doing badly in school now for no reason, obviously she's putting her focus into learning how to be a captain now. There was that training episode with Chiaki, too.
I can agree with this too, but my only question is, in the club, why isnít she in charge then if she clearly is more superior to her classmates? Why havenít they agreed to let her captain the girls? Saying that captaining ability is genetic is a little bit of a stretch for me, because captaining isnít just be one singular ability; itís something that incorporates many abilities simultaneously. Maybe they couldíve said from a young age her mom did X and Y, or that when she was growing up she always had an interest in A and B, or would always do C and D. I just would prefer something a bit more convincing for her skills other than itís just genetic. Hell, I would even be happy if they said that her mother showed her pirate movies when she was growing up; just anything to show why she would be interested and decent at pirating.
They don't play the grades thing off too lightly, it's been mentioned at length, and times where she tries to study but gets interrupted have happened multiple times too. I'm sure it won't just go away as an issue. It's far too early to say that it has no consequence. I'm sure it will in time.
Weíll have yet to see about the grades. I mean, she has such a long grace period to make an excursion so why not let her focus on grades and only plan an excursion when necessary and when sheís more in control of her grades? For all the forward-planning they seem to do and for all the time they have between the required excursion periods, why donít they make use of it more? Surely they can plan a little smarter ahead of time to deal with this issue instead of ignoring the importance.
I just can't agree here. Yes, electronic warfare gets the most prominent role in the 2-5 part, but it still matters some at least, even if she now has someone good at it... and knowing how important it is helps appreciate her skill at it too, I would say.
While it helps her appreciate the skill, they never really show it anymore. To me anyways, It kinda felt like a waste of all that good material because it doesnít have any focus anymore even though itís still necessary.
Make Chiaki the protagonist, keep the ED; itís awesome (and i'm buying it), tension
doesnít only mean one thing with no flexibility, source material is almost always better, I don't understand claiming a show to be the greatest show of the season almost every episode without looking at any of the faults critically can make something the best (it's the same reason why my derivative enjoyment from Lagrange is high but I can't rank it up there with the greats at all on a critical levell).