[LCGeek]

So basically it's getting closer to the truth that the Wii U in 2012 will be as powerful as the Wii could have been in 2006. By 2016 when the PS4/Nextbox are in motion, the Wii U will be using 10+ year old technology. Essentially in these terms, the Wii U would be almost exactly one generation behind. Hoping it's only half-true or something, was thinking Wii U would be at least noticably more powerful than PS3/360. Not even halfway as powerful as the PS4/Nextbox maybe, but at least an improvement so we can start seeing more out of the Nintendo 1st party games. For example, with Zelda Skyward Sword, it really just feels like a Gamecube-era game. Not necessarily only the graphics, but the size of the game. I can only imagine how much more wondrous the sky world would have been with more powerful specs to work with, but instead we're left with 4-5 little islands with hardly anything on them that makes Wind Waker's ocean look supremely vast in comparison. Wind Waker came out in 2003.

This post is full of fail.

First the GPU that the Wiiu is based on didn't even show up for consumers till another year or two later from 2k6. Good luck on convincing nintendo to stick something that wasn't even out and still had a hefty price tag for a console in to system that was built for profit. The same can be said for the CPU architecture which is only a few years old as well. Explain in real way how nintendo could stick either of these components in to a console in 2k6?

Why are you expecting more of Wii which is a Xbox/GC level machine to do more than that? Windwaker ocean wasn't pushing much which is why they could make it look so big.

[Nilaul]

So basically it's getting closer to the truth that the Wii U in 2012 will be as powerful as the Wii could have been in 2006. By 2016 when the PS4/Nextbox are in motion, the Wii U will be using 10+ year old technology.

2016? If wii U comes in 2012.. that will will be 4 years, (more like 3), Nintendo could one up them in 2018 then, and then the ps5/xbox4 2-3 years later

What has become of the console race?

[Thunder Monkey]

The one thing I find interesting about the WiiU situation. It's RAM amount is going to be about as close to Fusion as it is to the 360. Top end for a console launching in 2013 would be 3 gigs split pool if they aren't breaking the bank and 6 gig top end if they are. The largest I could see unified being if they are willing to waste the money is 4 gigs, but that still might be too pricey for a console that needs to launch at $500 maximum.

I lean towards them going not so bank breakage. And from there two options arise in my mind. As I said before the 3 gig split pool or 2 gig unified, maybe with a huge transistor wasting eDram pool. The 3 gig pool would be split 1 gig GDDR5, 2 gigs DDR3. I find this unlikely because of games having to fit into that 1 gig of fast RAM, assets streaming in continuously from the slower pool. That would be an interesting design though.

Under that scenario Fusion will have either twice the amount of RAM or just a 360's worth more than the WiiU.

GPU's is where I expect the largest differences to be. Case size is a very real limiting factor in the WiiU's design.

I hope this doesn't illicit angry responses. I'm really trying to be quite level here. I never once expected the WiiU to be as powerful as the next consoles from Sony or MS, given some of the recent rumors I was expecting more than we're likely to get though.

I've always been a multi-console owner for a reason. It's heretical... but I was a fan of both the SNES and Genny!

*cries*

[perfectchaos007]

I also thought some highly regarded Nintendo spokespeople said they knew the importance of making their next console comparable in power to the next gen competition so 3rd parties with a multi-platform game won't be hesitant to bring their game on Nintendo's console. This info seems highly contradictory to those statements.

[Fredrik]

The battle of Next Generation won't be about GPU and CPU power. You do realize that, don't you? I'm playing Skyrim on the 360 right beside my wife who's playing it on ultra high details on PC and I can barely see any difference at all. So my guess is that even if WiiU was exactly on par with 360/PS3 and 720/PS4 was 10x that it still wouldn't matter much. Next Generation will be all about innovating with Kinect, dual screens, apps and online functionalities - not graphics.
Plus, Nintendo is first out of the gate and will most likely rule console gaming for 2 years and could start hyping their next next generation two years after that, while 720/PS4 is struggling to get ahead of them just like they're doing this generation. The big difference from this generation is that nobody will point and laugh at Nintendo's console this time.
In short, Nintendo wins, again.

[jetsetfluken]

Why are you expecting more of Wii which is a Xbox/GC level machine to do more than that? Windwaker ocean wasn't pushing much which is why they could make it look so big.

It's not that I was expecting a huge upgrade for (in this example) Zelda SS (Wii/2011) compared to Zelda WW (GCN/2003), it's more of an obvious self-revelation, "I'm playing games on PS3/360 which have more or less run their course visually and we're long overdue for a new generation, and I'm playing this 2011 Wii game with visuals/world map size comparable or smaller than a 2003 Gamecube game."

What I'm trying to say in my last post in terms of the year differences and outdated hardware, isn't specially referring to "when was this hardware part available on the market". I'm more saying, what in (terms of software) can this hardware included in the Wii U do in comparison to what was available in 2005/2006 with PS3 and 360?

The reply after mine elaborates it better than I did:

In 2016 the WiiU will be using tech that is at most of four to five years old. The 3DS outputs visuals right about par with high end Xbox games. That does not make the hardware 11 years old. Now if you want to say "The WiiU will be producing games a generation removed from Fusion/PS4." That much is potentially true.

----

2016? If wii U comes in 2012.. that will will be 4 years, (more like 3), Nintendo could one up them in 2018 then, and then the ps5/xbox4 2-3 years later What has become of the console race?

No, when I said 2016 I meant "the PS4/Nextbox would be well in motion by 2016". I didn't mean they'd launch then (that date would most likely be 2013/2014).

Anyway, not trying to go around on some reply-fest debunking "opinions" and posts. None of us know the real deal yet, I would wait until E3 2012, and even then we might not know the specs until near-release late this year.

[Thunder Monkey]

The battle of Next Generation won't be about GPU and CPU power. You do realize that, don't you? I'm playing Skyrim on the 360 right beside my wife who's playing it on ultra high details on PC and I can barely see any difference at all. So my guess is that even if WiiU was exactly on par with 360/PS3 and 720/PS4 was 10x that it still wouldn't matter much. Next Generation will be all about innovating with Kinect, dual screens, apps and online functionalities - not graphics. Plus, Nintendo is first out of the gate and will most likely rule console gaming for 2 years and could start hyping their next next generation two years after that, while 720/PS4 is struggling to get ahead of them just like they're doing this generation. The big difference from this generation is that nobody will point and laugh at Nintendo's console this time. In short, Nintendo wins, again.

This is predicated on WiiU's success.

And if there is one thing this industry is known for it's being pretty much unpredictable. Most thought the Wii would have success in Japan. Most thought it would be an uphill climb in America. In the end it floundered in Japan fairly quickly, and is still 5.5 million units ahead of one competitor in America, and 20 million ahead of the other.

[Thunder Monkey]

It's not that I was expecting a huge upgrade for (in this example) Zelda SS (Wii/2011) compared to Zelda WW (GCN/2003), it's more of an obvious self-revelation, "I'm playing games on PS3/360 which have more or less run their course visually and we're long overdue for a new generation, and I'm playing this 2011 Wii game with visuals/world map size comparable or smaller than a 2003 Gamecube game." What I'm trying to say in my last post in terms of the year differences and outdated hardware, isn't specially referring to "when was this hardware part available on the market". I'm more saying, what in (terms of software) can this hardware included in the Wii U do in comparison to what was available in 2005/2006 with PS3 and 360? The reply after mine elaborates it better than I did: ---- No, when I said 2016 I meant "the PS4/Nextbox would be well in motion by 2016". I didn't mean they'd launch then (that date would most likely be 2013/2014). Anyway, not trying to go around on some reply-fest debunking "opinions" and posts. None of us know the real deal yet, I would wait until E3 2012, and even then we might not know the specs until near-release late this year.

I'd still argue that the RAM amount of the WiiU will lead to games closer to the "feel" of next gen games with the shine of 360 games. Visually I'm not sure there will be a noticeable difference. But think about it this way. Just Cause 2 works under the confines of 512MB of moderately slow (by modern standards) RAM. The WiiU potentially has as much as 4x that amount, and as little as twice.

[i-Lo]

The battle of Next Generation won't be about GPU and CPU power. You do realize that, don't you? I'm playing Skyrim on the 360 right beside my wife who's playing it on ultra high details on PC and I can barely see any difference at all. So my guess is that even if WiiU was exactly on par with 360/PS3 and 720/PS4 was 10x that it still wouldn't matter much. Next Generation will be all about innovating with Kinect, dual screens, apps and online functionalities - not graphics. Plus, Nintendo is first out of the gate and will most likely rule console gaming for 2 years and could start hyping their next next generation two years after that, while 720/PS4 is struggling to get ahead of them just like they're doing this generation. The big difference from this generation is that nobody will point and laugh at Nintendo's console this time. In short, Nintendo wins, again.

Although I agree that the next gen is about features, interface and other ease of use innovation, it'll also be about graphics. It can not and should not stand still. If that's the route Wii U wants to take then so be it. Please don't try and tell others what think it should be about for all others. It's the very reason why there are 3 consoles today.

Also, in absolute terms the no. of PS3 and 360 sold up to today is outmatched by the Wii. However, is Wii the yardstick with which success is to be measured? It's like saying any game that doesn't sell CoD number must be seen as "struggling". It's a very myopic method of thinking. All three want to sell their consoles by large numbers no doubt. However, what number of consoles sold per unit of time as time progresses to make the business viable is matter the companies themselves will have the best idea about.

There is no point talking about the specs or pricing of either WiiU or PS4/XB3 since it'll end in partial speculations. As such, the talk of "struggling" is moot because the target market may well be different once more.

Returning to the first point, just because you can "barely see a difference" doesn't mean it is an empirical proof. On the contrary there are many who can. And there are those who don't care for one or the other. There is a long way to go before graphical quality becomes a moot point in gaming.

[Fredrik]

This is predicated on WiiU's success. And if there is one thing this industry is known for it's being pretty much unpredictable. Most thought the Wii would have success in Japan. Most thought it would be an uphill climb in America. In the end it floundered in Japan fairly quickly, and is still 5.5 million units ahead of one competitor in America, and 20 million ahead of the other.

Yes it is. But I don't know, I don't think the success of the Wii or 3DS was an example of gaming industry being unpredictable. I think it is an example of Saturo Iwata's sense of what people want, kind of like Steve Jobs, and Nintendo not being afraid to take measures and cut the price radically if needed. I don't think WiiU will be as successfull as the Wii. Wii was a revolution. But it's definitelly doing some things that stirrs people interest, and right now I think that's enough, especially if it gets to keep the Wii name.
And if it fails. Well who would've thought that the 3DS would turn out to be one of Nintendo's fastest selling consoles (of all time?) with that launch? And even before getting a Pokemon? I know I didn't. I thought they were doomed for real this time.

[cyberheater]

Epic have said Nintendo are targeting "beyond current gen", I find it hard to believe an argument that "on par" is a synonym for "beyond".

But when did they say it. I believe (my opinion) that Nintendo promised a spec and failed to deliver.

If WiiU was much more powerful the PS360, why are Nintendo not working with the Darksiders devs to improve the graphical fidelity of one of its launch games.

[Phoenician_Viking]

Glorious PS3 was made in Japan so its way better than baka gaijin xbox

Hurr durr, you have no leg to stand on, so you make a stupid comment.

No way. Unless Wii U is full next gen upgrade spec wise it won't be anywhere near $400. An "on par" with PS360 Wii U is going to be $249-299. Bet on it.

The controller is going to be expansive. More than 50$ usual price of controllers. That will push the price of the WiiU to more than 250$.

[magash]

But when did they say it. I believe (my opinion) that Nintendo promised a spec and failed to deliver. If WiiU was much more powerful the PS360, why are Nintendo not working with the Darksiders devs to improve the graphical fidelity of one of its launch games.

Why did Microsoft not work with Neversoft Entertainment in order to improve Gun for the Xbox360's launch?

[Thunder Monkey]

Why did Microsoft not work with Neversoft Entertainment in order to improve Gun for the Xbox360's launch?

Because it was a just a lineup filler?

[Instro]

But when did they say it. I believe (my opinion) that Nintendo promised a spec and failed to deliver. If WiiU was much more powerful the PS360, why are Nintendo not working with the Darksiders devs to improve the graphical fidelity of one of its launch games.

Well when they don't make any improvements to the PC version, they certainly won't do it for the WiiU version.

[antonz]

THQ isnt even in a financial situation to try and invest any money into improving the version beyond the others.

They were uncommitted to improving the game beyond a port from the very beginning.

[Phoenician_Viking]

Will Microsoft and Sony be there next gen too, despite having multiple billion dollar losses whilst doing this and watching Nintendo make billions doing next to nothing PSPV, PS3, XBox360 all at the cutting edge, 3DS and Wii not so much. I can't see Sony going cutting edge, even if Microsoft decide they want to as they could afford it more.

Vita is not cutting edge. It´s made of off shelf components.

[cyberheater]

Well when they don't make any improvements to the PC version, they certainly won't do it for the WiiU version.

Has that been 100% confirmed that texture resolution will be the same on the PC version?

Even if that's true. If WiiU GPU was powerful enough, it would be easy for the devs to have the game running at 1080p with high quality AA @ 30fps.

[zoukka]

Even if that's true. If WiiU GPU was powerful enough, it would be easy for the devs to have the game running at 1080p with high quality AA @ 30fps.

If it would be "easy" we wouldn't have crappy PC ports anymore now wouldn't we.

[FyreWulff]

the GC was tiny yet on par with the Xbox...ok, maybe slightly less but still

And the Xbox's huge was due in part to the PSU being inside the console, and the giant DVD and HDD chassis.

If they had a laptop-sized HDD soldered in and the external PSU like the GameCube, the Xbox could have been much smaller. But they really were not even attempting to make the OXbox space friendly at any point.

Size = power is pointless when the Wii U more than likely has an external PSU and doesn't have an HDD inside (since they're just going to let you hook one up via USB), and a slot load DVD drive.

[guek]

Has that been 100% confirmed that texture resolution will be the same on the PC version? Even if that's true. If WiiU GPU was powerful enough, it would be easy for the devs to have the game running at 1080p with high quality AA @ 30fps.

I think someone said the pc version of darksider 1 had no AA and that it had to be hacked in...? [citation needed]

[Phoenician_Viking]

The battle of Next Generation won't be about GPU and CPU power. You do realize that, don't you? I'm playing Skyrim on the 360 right beside my wife who's playing it on ultra high details on PC and I can barely see any difference at all. So my guess is that even if WiiU was exactly on par with 360/PS3 and 720/PS4 was 10x that it still wouldn't matter much. Next Generation will be all about innovating with Kinect, dual screens, apps and online functionalities - not graphics. Plus, Nintendo is first out of the gate and will most likely rule console gaming for 2 years and could start hyping their next next generation two years after that, while 720/PS4 is struggling to get ahead of them just like they're doing this generation. The big difference from this generation is that nobody will point and laugh at Nintendo's console this time. In short, Nintendo wins, again.

Gotta love people who have crystal balls. The WiiU will still be competing with PS360 who have a huge library.

[cyberheater]

I think someone said the pc version of darksider 1 had no AA and that it had to be hacked in...? [citation needed]

I've got Darksiders on PC. I'll have to look.

[Nirolak]

I think someone said the pc version of darksider 1 had no AA and that it had to be hacked in...? [citation needed]

Darksiders used Deferred Rendering before FXAA and MLAA really existed and/or took off, and was a DirectX 9 only game, so it was like a lot of the PC ports in the 2008-2010 era in that it supported no form of anti-aliasing unless you forced it on the driver level, which usually has a pretty bad performance impact or can fail to work on everything.

[guek]

cyberheater, I'm going to laugh so hard if it turns out that the pc port of darksiders II is virtually indistinguishable from the console versions and you end up losing that bet you just made in the speculation thread. All your saber rattling will have been for naught.

[Instro]

Has that been 100% confirmed that texture resolution will be the same on the PC version? Even if that's true. If WiiU GPU was powerful enough, it would be easy for the devs to have the game running at 1080p with high quality AA @ 30fps.

If its the same as Darksiders, the PC version will only have res and a vsync option. There was no AA option. There's no reason to think anything will change in regards to textures and so on.

[cyberheater]

cyberheater, I'm going to laugh so hard if it turns out that the pc port of darksiders II is virtually indistinguishable from the console versions and you end up losing that bet you just made in the speculation thread. All your saber rattling will have been for naught.

I hope I lose the bet. I want WiiU to be a powerful console.

[wsippel]

But when did they say it. I believe (my opinion) that Nintendo promised a spec and failed to deliver. If WiiU was much more powerful the PS360, why are Nintendo not working with the Darksiders devs to improve the graphical fidelity of one of its launch games.

Nintendo is too busy getting their own HD engines and pipelines up and running to waste resources on some multiplatform title? Just a guess.

[guek]

I hope I lose the bet. I want WiiU to be a powerful console.

If you do, I wont let it go for a long long time.

[cyberheater]

If you do, I wont let it go for a long long time.

E3 is going to be very interesting this year...

[nintendors]

Even if that's true. If WiiU GPU was powerful enough, it would be easy for the devs to have the game running at 1080p with high quality AA @ 30fps.

Nintendo is too busy getting their own HD engines and pipelines up and running to waste resources on some multiplatform title? Just a guess.

.

[DCharlie]

An "on par" with PS360 Wii U is going to be $249-299. Bet on it.

the rumour is $200 base unit, $120 controller and a $299 "pack" - i'm pretty sure that is reasonable.

i guess it comes down to what games the machine has and how it uses the controller to distinguish itself.

I STILL think that multiplatforms are going to be largely a non-event on the Wii U but the establishment of FULL support is important. Still a bit fucked off with Nintendo chosing to be a gen or so behind the curve. They're loaded to the gills with cash, wouldn't it have been a perfect time to go all out on the attack and compete spec to spec? Anyways....

[guek]

no way the controller is $120...

that's just really hard to believe

[specialguy]

Vita is not cutting edge. It´s made of off shelf components.

the two are not exclusive.

if anything, going with exotic tech probably guarantees that you will not be cutting edge.

the rumour is $200 base unit, $120 controller and a $299 "pack" - i'm pretty sure that is reasonable.

wow, i dont believe that, but if they could do a $200 base unit it would be quite stunning.

and what would come in the "pack", anyway? Considering there should be no hard drive. A second controller perhaps? Some games?

I'm expecting (whatever the cheapest sku is, I only envision one SKU though) 300+ dollars. Maybe 299. My pulled outta my ass thought has always been 349.

Now that I think of it though, no hard drive could really help them on price, such that 299 would seem possible. Still going with my gut usually proves right so I'll say 349.

[StoppedInTracks]

no way the controller is $120... that's just really hard to believe

iPad is $400. Wiipad is way more primitive tech so it could be $99-$119.

[Night_Trekker]

Good enough for me. I'm still playing and enjoying Wii titles.

[nintendors]

wouldn't be "wise" from a business prospective for Nintendo to keep this trend of having a hardware a gen or so behind ? I mean if they went "all out" it would mean some huge losses on each units sold at 1st year or so but then "Hope" to recover that with software sales. now lets move to 2018 or whatever Nintendo is gonna launch the next next generation, we will expect them to do the same right ? how about the gen after that ? ,,,,point is it might be bad (like closing their doors bad) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but who am I to say this :P

[guek]

iPad is $400. Wiipad is way more primitive tech so it could be $99-$119.

16gb ipad 3 is closer to $300 actually. But that's like comparing a razor scooter to a boeing 747

[JWong]

Vita is not cutting edge. It´s made of off shelf components.

Vita has a quad core CPU and GPU that makes the new iPad cry. It is cutting edge, especially when SAMOLED+ creams all other screens.

Well, until the Transformer Infinity comes out with its quad core CPU and 12 core Tegra GPU. Still might be bogged down by the OS though.

[Medalion]

Why do people believe the commentary of this one developer when every other comment about Wii-U says it is at least two times as powerful as the current-gen?

Especially when you take into consideration they said their devkits aren't finalized for Wii-U

[trinest]

7 years too late and only on par with current gen consoles? Yeah that's Nintendo alright

It's funny how quick that stigma was attached to Nintendo. They only did it between GC and Wii.

[Thunder Monkey]

the two are not exclusive. if anything, going with exotic tech probably guarantees that you will not be cutting edge.

Your first sentence I agree with, your second I'm not sure I do. Most cutting edge tech is to a degree esoteric compared to earlier designs. The trick is straddling the line between the alien and the familiar.

[JWong]

Why do people believe the commentary of this one developer when every other comment about Wii-U says it is at least two times as powerful as the current-gen? Especially when you take into consideration they said their devkits aren't finalized for Wii-U

Vigil came out of the Wii U announcement praising the hell out of the Wii U.

So to take a step back from their statement is, at least, interesting.

[Shadow of the BEAST]

Why do people believe the commentary of this one developer when every other comment about Wii-U says it is at least two times as powerful as the current-gen? Especially when you take into consideration they said their devkits aren't finalized for Wii-U

if its 2x current consoles its still a current gen console or on par.

xbox was 2x or 3x ps2.

a generational leap starts somewhere around 8x.

[guek]

Vigil came out of the Wii U announcement praising the hell out of the Wii U. So to take a step back from their statement is, at least, interesting.

I made this point earlier but the problem is that unless a dev or reliable source are fully aware that they're making definitive testimonials, it's far too easy for them to misspeak or speak colloquially.

For example, it's possible, however unlikely, that by saying "on par with the current gen consoles" he merely meant that it can do anything PS360 can. Many devs have made similar statements while avoiding making an overarching judgement call on the power of the console.

But I can't pretend like that's what he meant because that would just be wishful thinking. I can't ignore the possibility either because other statements seem to point to point to something else, or at least seems to expand the definition of "on par" to mean more than "exactly equatable." If the 360 had 1GB of memory instead of 512mb, would the difference be insignificant? Well apparently that depends on who you ask.

[specialguy]

Vita has a quad core CPU and GPU that makes the new iPad cry. It is cutting edge, especially when SAMOLED+ creams all other screens.

Actually correct me if I'm wrong but dont the new iPad and the vita use the exact same GPU? (SGX543MP4)

I think the Vita may have a quad core CPU while the iPad only has dual core, though.

[Taurus]

It's funny how quick that stigma was attached to Nintendo. They only did it between GC and Wii.

Well what can you expect when most people on gaming forums have started their gaming during PS1 or even PS2 era?

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Well what can you expect when most people on gaming forums have started their gaming during PS1 or even PS2 era?

What happened to most of us (the old guys)?

[freddy]

a generational leap starts somewhere around 8x.

This is hilarious.

[ColdBlooder]

Oh man this thread is so FULL of FAIL...


... from BOTH SIDES!

We know basically NOTHING about the hardware. Just calm the **** down already.

I am 27 and my fanboy years are long beyond me. THANK GOD!

Not liking Nintendo? No problem, no one is forcing you to, BUT flaming Nintendo for STUPID reasons? how old are you? 7?

Same goes for the BigN Fanboys btw. Nintendo dosent need to be defended. The steamrolled over everyone this generation with the little white box that could! Even if WiiU is not able to be as successfull as the wii, it will still make BigN enough money. Even if they end up on third place end of next gen.

I am a Nintendo fan and therefor am looking forward to E3. Their first party software are the most appealing games TO ME PERSONALLY. While i like some 3rd party games (Arkham City, Saints Row, etc...) Their IN MY OPINION not on the same level as BigN games.

Even being a Nintendo fan i have no problem admitting that the Vita is a great piece of Hardware and that it is more powerful than the 3DS. The software of the Vita is just not appealing to me and does not justify a 249€ price tag IMO.

So PLEASE stop this stupid nonsense.

I made the bet with cyberheater just because i thougt it was a fun idea. I dont go cry in a corner or flame Nintendo if i lose.

So im out waiting for E3 and looking forward to what Nintendo will present us :)