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IceCold
Member
(03-28-2012, 03:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by neoanarch

The entire concept of race is outdated and plain wrong. Any system or method that tries to classify humans into groups inevitably breaks down.

I agree but just to play devil's advocate here:

Couldn't someone claim that the differences in our phenotype (mainly skin colour and bone structure) a result of the homo sapiens having sub species (races)? Like if you look at other animals like frogs. Many of them look the same but based on their color and size they are classified as being different species.
j_k_redtail
Member
(03-28-2012, 03:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by IceCold

I agree but just to play devil's advocate here:

Couldn't someone claim that the differences in our phenotype (mainly skin colour and bone structure) a result of the homo sapiens having sub species (races)? Like if you look at other animals like frogs. Many of them look the same but based on their color and size they are classified as being different species.

It's a fair question. IIRC, scientifically, two healthy individuals are of the same species if they can mate and produce fertile offspring. It's a bit more complicated than that, but that's the gist. Thus, all humans are the same species. Extinct species are classified a bit differently.

The concept of race has traditionally implied biological differences beyond appearance. There really aren't any genes that work that way. That's what we mean when we say race is skin deep.
Last edited by j_k_redtail; 03-28-2012 at 03:58 AM.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
(03-28-2012, 05:54 PM)
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In a surprise twist, Yahoo commenters are more sensible than some on Gaf:

http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-...182705585.html
DangerStepp
Member
(03-28-2012, 05:59 PM)
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I admit that I didn't catch that Rue was black when I read the book.

So it made for a nice little surprise when I saw the movie.

As for the absurd behavior of the people in the OP with the Instagram'd Tweets--I don't get them.
demosthenes
Member
(03-28-2012, 06:17 PM)
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Wrong thread! Was for the regular hunger games thread haha.
JGS
Banned
(03-30-2012, 04:44 AM)
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Not meaning to resurrect the thread but thought this was a good article on it.

http://jezebel.com/5896515/a-charact...g=black-people

In April of 2011, Suzanne Collins told Entertainment Weekly that her characters…

…Were not particularly intended to be biracial. It is a time period where hundreds of years have passed from now. There's been a lot of ethnic mixing. But I think I describe them as having dark hair, grey eyes, and sort of olive skin .…But then there are some characters in the book who are more specifically described.

For instance: Thresh and Rue. Collins said, "They're African-American."

Dreams-Visions
I'm mad as hell but this sandwich is delicious
(03-30-2012, 04:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by JGS

Not meaning to resurrect the thread but thought this was a good article on it.

http://jezebel.com/5896515/a-charact...g=black-people

i bet dey mad anyway.

Waiting patiently for the "You wrote it wrong, bitch!" tweets.
Ultratech
Member
(03-30-2012, 04:56 AM)
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Heh, my sister kinda just mentioned this after seeing the movie. According to her, she imagined that everyone was mostly white based off what was in the book.

I can't really comment much on it myself since I haven't really read the books yet.
JGS
Banned
(03-30-2012, 05:02 AM)
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That I get because race is not a big issue in the Hunger Games until you discuss 11. Few are described a pure white.

I get that ones can possibly miss that Rue & Thresh are black, I am very surprised when they are surprised they are played by black actors though given their description.

After all, katniss has dark features already and they are described by her as being darker. So to stay in character they would have to find some pretty dark white people.
Last edited by JGS; 03-30-2012 at 06:01 AM.
Onemic
Member
(03-30-2012, 05:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by JGS

Not meaning to resurrect the thread but thought this was a good article on it.

http://jezebel.com/5896515/a-charact...g=black-people

Bu bu bu, snookis dark brown!
ZoddGutts
Member
(03-30-2012, 05:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by JGS

That I get because race is not a big issue in the Hunger Games until you discuss 11. Few are described a pure white.

I get that ones can possibly miss that Rue & Thresh are black, I am very surprised when they are surprised they are played by black actors though given their description.

After all, katniss has dark features already and they are destined by her as being darker. So to stay in character they would have to find some pretty dark white people.

Not that hard. Either mix whites, Italians (sicilians descent) or latinas. Instead they got some white girl (fair skin) and gave her a tan lol.
Black Republican
water to wine
the drink exchanger
(03-30-2012, 05:22 AM)
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White people say racism doesnt exist, we live in a post racial world, race doesnt matter


movie has good roles for people of color not just sidekicks/not stereotypes


These same fans are mad


wut.
neoism
Member
(03-30-2012, 06:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by MThanded



wow I laughed Hard. 2nd is obviously color blind. lol Brown is red...lol
soundscream
ATTN MEN: visually inspect your condom before disposal
(03-30-2012, 06:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by JGS

Not meaning to resurrect the thread but thought this was a good article on it.

http://jezebel.com/5896515/a-charact...g=black-people

I'm tempted to go back through the thread to set up a lovely plate of crow but I dont think this would change anything.
Onemic
Member
(03-30-2012, 06:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by soundscream

I'm tempted to go back through the thread to set up a lovely plate of crow but I dont think this would change anything.

I think they'd just say something to the effect of, "she should have made it more obvious" More obvious being describing them as simply "black" or as hoodie wearing, pot smoking, gangsters.
soundscream
ATTN MEN: visually inspect your condom before disposal
(03-30-2012, 06:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by onemic

I think they'd just say something to the effect of, "she should have made it more obvious" More obvious being describing them as simply "black" or as hoodie wearing, pot smoking, gangsters.

Or as Dave said describe them as "proper black".
JGS
Banned
(03-30-2012, 12:18 PM)
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One thing the article said that I liked was they pointed out that this is sci-fi although it usually doesn't read that way. Since it's sci-fi set in the future, it's difficult to label things per our norms.

I really wish they would do some side story talking about the world now. The Districts may not be located where we think either
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
(03-30-2012, 12:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by soundscream

Or as Dave said describe them as "proper black".

...lol the fuck is proper black
SmokyDave
His head smashed in and his heart cut out and his liver removed and his bowels unplugged and his nostrils raped and his bottom burned off and his penis...
(03-30-2012, 12:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by DonasaurusRex

...lol the fuck is proper black

Kinda Black -> Black -> Proper Black.

It's a term for when you're writing a book and you don't want any confusion and saltiness over the ethnicity of one of your characters. You can also use 'Well Black' or, if you're white and trying to be hip: 'Nuff Black'.
soundscream
ATTN MEN: visually inspect your condom before disposal
(03-30-2012, 12:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by DonasaurusRex

...lol the fuck is proper black

Somebody wasn't reading the thread......

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=620
GraveHorizon
poop meter feature creep
(03-30-2012, 01:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by DonasaurusRex

...lol the fuck is proper black



And here's some proper olive skin.
Slayven
gimme some o dat God-crafted alabaster greatness
(03-30-2012, 01:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by onemic

I think they'd just say something to the effect of, "she should have made it more obvious" More obvious being describing them as simply "black" or as hoodie wearing, pot smoking, gangsters.

In the books she said they were darkskinned, from atlanta, and picked cotton and other crops.
Htown
STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
(03-30-2012, 01:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Slayven

In the books she said they were darkskinned, from atlanta, and picked cotton and other crops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRp_mVi969I
bengraven
will fuck homely black hookers in the name of progress and tolerance
(03-30-2012, 02:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by JGS

Not meaning to resurrect the thread but thought this was a good article on it.

http://jezebel.com/5896515/a-charact...g=black-people

She's lyin'! How much did Erbama pay ya to say that Collins? *spits tobaccy*


Originally Posted by onemic

I think they'd just say something to the effect of, "she should have made it more obvious" More obvious being describing them as simply "black" or as hoodie wearing, pot smoking, gangsters.

I love how it needs to be more obvious. Why does it need to be obvious which race a character is unless you feel the need to define people by their race, you know?
Napoleonthechimp
Member
(03-30-2012, 03:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by bengraven

She's lyin'! How much did Erbama pay ya to say that Collins? *spits tobaccy*




I love how it needs to be more obvious. Why does it need to be obvious which race a character is unless you feel the need to define people by their race, you know?

It is only really needed if you wanted to draw parallels between their fictional representation and real history. That way it adds more emotional resonance for the audience or readers.
JGS
Banned
(03-30-2012, 03:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Napoleonthechimp

It is only really needed if you wanted to draw parallels between their fictional representation and real history. That way it adds more emotional resonance for the audience or readers.

I think Collins was intentionally drawing attention to their race and the link with 11 which helps identify the supposed locales & alludes to slavery since 11 was way more locked down than 12 even without the revolt mentioned in the movie.

Overall, I think her descriptions are intentionally vague which is funny because she actually describes individuals pretty well.
AllenShrz
Member
(03-30-2012, 03:54 PM)
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This remind me a lot to the catwoman / halle berry debacle.

Stupid people saying stupid shit
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
(03-30-2012, 04:10 PM)
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kudos to the book for not making it about race. i like that she merely described color and features.
Dreams-Visions
I'm mad as hell but this sandwich is delicious
(03-31-2012, 04:54 AM)
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New Yorker - 'White Until Proven Black: Imagining Race in The Hunger Games'

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...2BNew%2BYorker

Good read.
JGS
Banned
(03-31-2012, 02:50 PM)
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“People very often talk about literacy with words, but there’s such a thing as visual and thematic literacy,” says Deborah Pope, the executive director of the Ezra Jack Keats Foundation, which encourages diversity in kids’ books. “I think some of these young people just didn’t really *read* the book.” (Mr. Keats’s groundbreaking classic, “The Snowy Day,” which is celebrating its fiftieth anniversary this year, revolutionized children’s literature by being the first mainstream picture book to feature a black male protagonist.) Pope tells me that data analyzed by the University of Wisconsin-Madison’s Cooperative Children’s Book Center in 2010 found that only nine per cent of the three thousand four hundred children’s books published that year contained significant cultural or ethnic diversity. She points out that the white default—in books, as in other forms of mass media—is learned and internalized early, including by children of color. It takes vigilance—and self-awareness—to overcome. “I picked up on the [character and racial] descriptions in “The Hunger Games” immediately,” says Adam, who is of Caribbean descent. “But then again, whenever I read something, I wonder, ‘where can I find the character who represents ME?’ ”

Good paragraph. One thing I've learned about page turners is you don't really stop and smell the flowers. With HG, I'm guilty of skimming through the details because I'm ready to move to the next page (I've never read a trilogy as fast as I read this).

At the same time, I do the same thing as the second bold in that I look for deviations from what I'm used to reading - white people. Even Katniss' description is unique enough for me to question her race until they introduce and contrast the appearance of Rue & Thresh.

Hopefully, in terms of sci-fi & fantasy stuff, they keep it somewhat vague so that we can place our own perception of character into it and then not get bent out of shape when they choose a role that doesn't fit it.
methane47
Member
(03-31-2012, 03:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by GraveHorizon



And here's some proper olive skin.



??
JB1981
I am full of shit.
Rich, smooth, creamy shit.
(03-31-2012, 03:09 PM)
Just read some of those excerpts. The writing sounds real shitty
blind51de
Banned
(03-31-2012, 03:15 PM)
I like Lenny Kravitz, but isn't he a little old?
This movie is a girl-power ripoff of Battle Royale, right?
JGS
Banned
(03-31-2012, 03:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by blind51de

I like Lenny Kravitz, but isn't he a little old?
This movie is a girl-power ripoff of Battle Royale, right?

Mostly no outside of the basic premise which Battle Royale likely copied from somewhere too.
Kod1ak
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(03-31-2012, 03:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by JB1981

Just read some of those excerpts. The writing sounds real shitty

It's alright, but could be much better. I never read Twilight, but read excerpts and it seems like it is on a similar level. Maybe slightly better, but similar.
Pachterballs
Banned
(03-31-2012, 03:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by AllenShrz

This remind me a lot to the catwoman / halle berry debacle.

Stupid people saying stupid shit

the only debacle there is what a godawful actress she is and how annoying her version of catwoman is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y22H3...yer_detailpage

AWFULNESS. I can't find the video that dissects how shitty catwoman the movie is. so that will do.

Originally Posted by blind51de

I like Lenny Kravitz, but isn't he a little old?
This movie is a girl-power ripoff of Battle Royale, right?

no
yes. totally.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
(04-01-2012, 03:21 PM)

Originally Posted by JGS

Mostly no outside of the basic premise which Battle Royale likely copied from somewhere too.

Running Man, all these stories remind me of that movie, with changes here and there. I.e. criminals to children. :O
Criminal Upper
Banned
(04-01-2012, 03:37 PM)
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It all kinda boils down to "The Most Dangerous Game"
Septimius
Member
(04-01-2012, 03:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Htown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRp_mVi969I

Hahaha.
MWS Natural
Blacks Anonymous™
(04-01-2012, 04:19 PM)
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She responds...doesn't really address it directly though:

On Wednesday, Stenberg spoke out on the controversy. "As a fan of the books, I feel fortunate to be part of The Hunger Games family," she told Us Weekly in a statement. "It was an amazing experience; I am proud of the film and my performance. I want to thank all of my fans and the entire Hunger Games community for their support and loyalty."

Read more: http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainm...#ixzz1qno3q2wp
http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainm...candal-2012283
Hasardeur
Member
(04-01-2012, 04:36 PM)
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While reading the book, I didn't realize either that Rue was black (it's probably mentioned somewhere in there and I just glossed over it). Not that I care or anything.
charsace
Banned
(04-01-2012, 04:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kod1ak

It's alright, but could be much better. I never read Twilight, but read excerpts and it seems like it is on a similar level. Maybe slightly better, but similar.

The hunger game book are written much better than the Twilight books. Much, much better.
Meus Renaissance
Junior Member
(04-01-2012, 05:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by kavinsky

People always surprise me in that regard.
I mean, have a look:



These are both brown skinned children. Although, according to the logic applied here by some people, one of these groups is not brown, and should be classified as black, just black. But what makes one group of these children black, and makes the other brown? I'll tell you, arbitrary classifications with no merit, forged centuries ago to empower the agenda of colonialists.
Unless you checked the source urls, you wouldn't automatically know which photo is that of a group of African children, and which one is that of Indian children.
This is what the world is like, people of all continents come in different shades/features. Why can't we celebrate it?

I don't think using Egyptians, in regards to the first photo, (just because it happens to be in Africa) is a good example in this context of race and shade of skin colour.
JGS
Banned
(04-01-2012, 05:03 PM)
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Again, familiarity with location is important so I get the not knowing their black. However, that still shouldn't ruin the story to use them.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
(04-01-2012, 05:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by MWS Natural

She responds...doesn't really address it directly though:


Read more: http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainm...#ixzz1qno3q2wp
http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainm...candal-2012283

what a charming child
The Faceless Master
(04-03-2012, 05:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by SmokyDave

Kinda Black -> Black -> Proper Black.

It's a term for when you're writing a book and you don't want any confusion and saltiness over the ethnicity of one of your characters. You can also use 'Well Black' or, if you're white and trying to be hip: 'Nuff Black'.

lol

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