• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF

Arnie
Member
(04-08-2012, 08:56 PM)
Arnie's Avatar
I really liked Guardian as well, was great for Oddball.
Mayyhem
Member
(04-08-2012, 08:56 PM)
Mayyhem's Avatar
Nothing like a super close Guardian team oddball game. Ah man, good times. One of my all time favorite Halo maps.
CyReN
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:01 PM)
CyReN's Avatar
Random fact of the day: MLG used these maps in 05' Colossus, Foundation, Backwash, Zanzibar.

As for maps for me:
  • Chill Out
  • Damnation
  • Lockout
  • Midship
  • Zanzibar
  • Narrows
  • The Pit
  • Valhalla
  • Powerhouse

------
Finals at EGL are about to start between apeX Str8 Rippin and apeX Devastation. Str8 up 3-1
Last edited by CyReN; 04-08-2012 at 09:04 PM.
kylej
Banned
(04-08-2012, 09:03 PM)
kylej's Avatar

Originally Posted by OuterWorldVoice

7 Best Halo maps according to me, but not in order because I can't really figure that out:

The Pit
Blood Gulch (CE)
Valhalla
Lockout
Guardian (shut up, don't care)
Turf (some modes)
Zanzibar

I look at this list, and I smile, for it is good. Then I look at this



and I shed the tears of a thousand men.
zlatko
Banned
(04-08-2012, 09:06 PM)
zlatko's Avatar
Yo Halo GAF, am I correct in assuming there is no beta for H4? I swear I read that here somewhere.

Makes me sad we have to wait so long to get in on H4. :(
Arnie
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:06 PM)
Arnie's Avatar
These EGL Finals are being played about 30 minutes from me. One of my mates has gone.
Garrett 2U
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:06 PM)
Garrett 2U's Avatar
Sprint was inevitable.
Across the board, shooters have migrated toward "fast paced, visceral action" (343i marketing words, not mine).
But as long as the maps are designed to fit the new abilities, then I think it will be okay.
And what I said earlier, infinite armor ability energy has to go.

In other news...
I'm expecting some really interesting modifications to forge, given the new setting for multiplayer is a room that can change itself in any way.
Steelyuhas
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:07 PM)
Steelyuhas's Avatar

Originally Posted by zlatko

Yo Halo GAF, am I correct in assuming there is no beta for H4? I swear I read that here somewhere.

Makes me sad we have to wait so long to get in on H4. :(

Currently no plans for a public beta.
AllIsOneIsNone
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:08 PM)
AllIsOneIsNone's Avatar

Originally Posted by OuterWorldVoice

7 Best Halo maps according to me, but not in order because I can't really figure that out:

The Pit
Blood Gulch (CE)
Valhalla
Lockout
Guardian (shut up, don't care)
Turf (some modes)
Zanzibar

Bullseye, baby! My additions would be to add sanctuary, ascension, and beaver creek.
Latvian Hitman
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:08 PM)
Latvian Hitman's Avatar

Originally Posted by OuterWorldVoice

7 Best Halo maps according to me, but not in order because I can't really figure that out:

The Pit
Blood Gulch (CE)
Valhalla
Lockout
Guardian (shut up, don't care)
Turf (some modes)
Zanzibar

Replace Valhalla with Containment and I'm pretty much right there with ya'.
zlatko
Banned
(04-08-2012, 09:09 PM)
zlatko's Avatar

Originally Posted by Steelyuhas

Currently no plans for a public beta.

I'm only okay with this since Reach MP is one of the smoothest you can get on consoles. I'm still sad though console shooter developers don't see the importance in dedicated servers for smooth online experiences. I don't see 343 doing that here either unfortunately.
GhaleonEB
knows his net worth
(04-08-2012, 09:09 PM)
GhaleonEB's Avatar

Originally Posted by Arnie

I really liked Guardian as well, was great for Oddball.

I can't see it working when everyone has sprint and (potentially) a jetpack. It's for reasons like this that I'm hoping for no remakes, at all. Build them with Halo 4's suite of movement options in mind.
Havok
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:10 PM)

Originally Posted by Retro

Guardian had a nice variety of ranges, some interesting choke points. I think what really borked Guardian the most was the hammer sitting in that yellow lift room and just being a BK Meatgrinder. I still remember going like 0-30 in FFA on that map flowing from point to point with a shotgun, without people being able to lock me down.

What really broke Guardian was that the Red Team could get to both Camo and Overshield before the Blue Team. Red also got sniper and hammer, and the mauler at one point. Blue got a near-useless shotgun (because their side was infinitely more assailable) and...a couple of plasma rifles.

It was incredibly difficult for blue to rush red at the beginning, either using the cannon or the center routes, because the Overshield guy was functionally invincible for ten seconds while Halo 3's slow ass overshield charge finished. Once the initial rush failed, it was just easy pickings with the sniper half the time.

Map had some big problems, MLG variant was good though, not that it excuses anything.

also,

Beaver Creek, Lockout, Midship, Waterworks, The Pit, Warlock, Sanctuary, Turf, Zanzibar, Headlong.
Last edited by Havok; 04-08-2012 at 09:14 PM.
The Librarian
Founding member, Guardians Anonymous
(04-08-2012, 09:11 PM)
The Librarian's Avatar

Originally Posted by GhaleonEB

I can't see it working when everyone has sprint and (potentially) a jetpack. It's for reasons like this that I'm hoping for no remakes, at all. Build them with Halo 4's suite of movement options in mind.

I'm pretty sure Frankie, somewhere, said there were going to be remakes. It was on the day of the Xbox Showcase reveal back in early March.

Originally Posted by Havok

What really broke Guardian was that the Red Team could get to both Camo and Overshield before the Blue Team. Red also got sniper and hammer, and the mauler at one point. Blue got a near-useless shotgun (because their side was infinitely more assailable) and...a couple of plasma rifles.

It was incredibly difficult for blue to rush red at the beginning, either using the cannon or the center routes, because the Overshield guy was functionally invincible for ten seconds while Halo 3's slow ass overshield charge finished. Once the initial rush failed, it was just easy pickings with the sniper half the time.

Map had some big problems, MLG variant was good though, not that it excuses anything.

Most of the stuff you mention isn't a problem outside the beginning of the match. Certainly Guardian's problematic weapon placements and pick-ups were never a factor in determining the victor. I think they're really minor problems at best. All it takes are a couple of tweaks, and the MM variation is still good I think. I always have fun regardless of which team I spawn as.
Last edited by The Librarian; 04-08-2012 at 09:16 PM.
Kuroyume
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:11 PM)
Kuroyume's Avatar
7 best Halo maps

Waterworks
The Pit
Lockout
Terminal
Coagulation
Headlong
Containment

H2 objective 4 life
Steelyuhas
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:11 PM)
Steelyuhas's Avatar

Originally Posted by GhaleonEB

I can't see it working when everyone has sprint and (potentially) a jetpack. It's for reasons like this that I'm hoping for no remakes, at all. Build them with Halo 4's suite of movement options in mind.

I saw your comment on Sanctuary earlier and I (sadly) agree. What I agree with even more is maps like Guardian and Lockout just don't strike me as working well with AA's.
Arnie
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:13 PM)
Arnie's Avatar

Originally Posted by GhaleonEB

I can't see it working when everyone has sprint and (potentially) a jetpack. It's for reasons like this that I'm hoping for no remakes, at all. Build them with Halo 4's suite of movement options in mind.

I think you're probably right. Trying to shoehorn fundamentally altered gameplay onto these old maps will not only destroy our memories of these older maps but also make us more frustrated with Halo 4.

It's not even a case of playing them without AAs either, because Sprint isn't even considered an AA now, rather a base trait that everyone possesses.
GhaleonEB
knows his net worth
(04-08-2012, 09:14 PM)
GhaleonEB's Avatar

Originally Posted by Dax01

I'm pretty sure Frankie, somewhere, said there were going to be remakes. It was on the day of the Xbox Showcase reveal back in early March.

I know. I didn't mean to imply there would not be (poor wording on my part), just that I wish there were not. Unless it's Waterworks.
kylej
Banned
(04-08-2012, 09:14 PM)
kylej's Avatar
X-ray vision might unbalance The Pit, but once I call in attack dogs it should help even everything out.
Gui_PT
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:16 PM)
Gui_PT's Avatar
My favorite map is Uncaged. The original one.

Yes.
Ryaaan14
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:16 PM)
Ryaaan14's Avatar
Guardian was one of my favorite maps in H3, but had Xray existed back then it would have been complete shit. That's the main thing that worries me about it, ruining potentially amazing maps.
AllIsOneIsNone
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:17 PM)
AllIsOneIsNone's Avatar
Reach remakes didn't work for me. Zealot was pretty good, but those maps just weren't designed for armor abilities at all.

edit: woops, beaten multiple times.
Last edited by AllIsOneIsNone; 04-08-2012 at 09:19 PM.
Redford
aka Cabbie
(04-08-2012, 09:17 PM)
Redford's Avatar
Montage?
Overdoziz
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:18 PM)
Overdoziz's Avatar

Originally Posted by GhaleonEB

I can't see it working when everyone has sprint and (potentially) a jetpack. It's for reasons like this that I'm hoping for no remakes, at all. Build them with Halo 4's suite of movement options in mind.

I'm curious to see how jetpack will be. I can't imagine them keeping it the same.
Booshka
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:18 PM)
Booshka's Avatar

Originally Posted by kylej

X-ray vision might unbalance The Pit, but once I call in attack dogs it should help even everything out.

Especially with Active Camo Attack Dogs.
Arnie
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:18 PM)
Arnie's Avatar

Originally Posted by kylej

X-ray vision might unbalance The Pit, but once I call in attack dogs it should help even everything out.

I'll just play in the Team Slayer - No Attack Dog - No AA playlist.

Population: 5

Whilst it's obvious with Kyle, I'm actually being facetious.
Havok
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:19 PM)

Originally Posted by Dax01

Most of the stuff you mention isn't a problem outside the beginning of the match. Certainly Guardian's problematic weapon placements and pick-ups were never a factor in determining the victor. I think they're really minor problems at best. All it takes are a couple of tweaks, and the MM variation is still good I think. I always have fun regardless of which team I spawn as.

I would say the initial rush being a completely lopsided affair is a pretty big deal, and with a good team that design, in practice, cements their holdings of the most powerful spot on the map as long as they make smart decisions. That placement absolutely plays a huge role in determining the victor. They hold the spot where all the best stuff is.
The Librarian
Founding member, Guardians Anonymous
(04-08-2012, 09:20 PM)
The Librarian's Avatar

Originally Posted by GhaleonEB

I know. I didn't mean to imply there would not be (poor wording on my part), just that I wish there were not. Unless it's Waterworks.

Yeah I was kind of confused. My apologies. But I do agree with your sentiment that Sprint and Guardian would probably not go well together. Guardian is too narrow and small to be accommodating of Sprint. I dunno. It's just a funny feeling I got.

Originally Posted by Havok

I would say the initial rush being a completely lopsided affair is a pretty big deal, and with a good team that design, in practice, cements their holdings of the most powerful spot on the map as long as they make smart decisions. That placement absolutely plays a huge role in determining the victor. They hold the spot where all the best stuff is.

Not judging from the recent games I've played on the map. The whole setup pretty much becomes a non-factor after the first five or so kills. Everything is pretty fluid and both sides of the map change hands regularly. Maybe you've experienced differently, but that's been my experience (even recently).
Last edited by The Librarian; 04-08-2012 at 09:22 PM.
Ramirez
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:20 PM)
Ramirez's Avatar
Frank's comment about X-Ray being something a good player tries and immediately picks something else, makes me think that it has a very short range. Like probably just for looking around a wall of a base you're about to go into. Still lame, but I don't believe it will cover the entire map...
senador
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:22 PM)
senador's Avatar

Originally Posted by GhaleonEB

I'm a bit concerned that maps the size of Sanctuary will play very differently when everyone has sprint as default. Particularly for objectives. That's already the case with Reach, but if players have sprint and another ability along side it, I don't see it playing the same way.

Originally Posted by GhaleonEB

I can't see it working when everyone has sprint and (potentially) a jetpack. It's for reasons like this that I'm hoping for no remakes, at all. Build them with Halo 4's suite of movement options in mind.

Originally Posted by Steelyuhas

I saw your comment on Sanctuary earlier and I (sadly) agree. What I agree with even more is maps like Guardian and Lockout just don't strike me as working well with AA's.

I understand jet packs and evade not working for certain (all) maps, but I don't see how sprint ruins them.
JonCha
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:22 PM)
Don't want remakes really, but The Pit would be great. Guardian is hugely overrated: too easy to dominate with sniper.
Arnie
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:22 PM)
Arnie's Avatar
I wouldn't mind X-Ray vision if it forced the user to be completely stationary for a couple of seconds whilst they scan through the wall.

Sweet bait for my grenade + BR burst combo.
Stinkles
sober, clothed, willing
(04-08-2012, 09:23 PM)
Stinkles's Avatar

Originally Posted by Ramirez

Frank's comment about X-Ray being something a good player tries and immediately picks something else, makes me think that it has a very short range. Like probably just for looking around a wall of a base you're about to go into. Still lame, but I don't believe it will cover the entire map...

You cannot use Forerunner Vision to see players anywhere on the map. Absolutely not.
senador
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:25 PM)
senador's Avatar

Originally Posted by OuterWorldVoice

You cannot use Forerunner Vision to see players anywhere on the map. Absolutely not.

Ha! Every post you make the game sounds better and better. I can't wait for full context, because the things that worried me probably all have limits and such and really won't be that big of a deal.
Overdoziz
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:26 PM)
Overdoziz's Avatar

Originally Posted by OuterWorldVoice

You cannot use Forerunner Vision to see players anywhere on the map. Absolutely not.

Can you use jetpack to get anywhere on the map? :)
xxjuicesxx
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:26 PM)
xxjuicesxx's Avatar
Shadowrun had x-ray vision...
Booshka
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:26 PM)
Booshka's Avatar
For X-Ray vision, steal another feature from Shadowrun, when someone uses X-Ray vision, other players have a visual/audio and controller vibrating cue to tell them they are getting wallhacked. Increase the intensity the closer the person is that is using X-ray vision. This is how Enhanced Vision works in Shadowrun, you can actually predict where a EV user is by the intensity of the cue, and I've seen people get kills on EV users because they could tell how far they were away from them and knew the map well.

EDIT: Here's a clip demonstrating what I am talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK1iMdZOG-s
Last edited by Booshka; 04-08-2012 at 09:31 PM.
GhaleonEB
knows his net worth
(04-08-2012, 09:27 PM)
GhaleonEB's Avatar

Originally Posted by senador

I understand jet packs and evade not working for certain (all) maps, but I don't see how sprint ruins them.

Mostly just that on very small maps like Guardian and Sanctuary, having players able to zip from one base to another or from location to location very quickly will have a big impact on the ebb and flow of combat. Trying to return a flag when the entire team has sprint by default, for instance, or cap one when everyone catches up to you twice as fast as before. This is less of an issue on larger maps when players are further from one another.

I won't say that it can't work, just that they'll play very differently, and that the new abilities should be something to consider when desiring a remake. Not all maps will play well with them.

Reach is a constant reminder that remakes dropped into a new combat sandbox are not a guarantee of success. I haven't enjoyed a single one of Reach's remakes anywhere near as much as the originals, and a large part of the reason why are the AA's. (Jetpack on Reflection, for instance.)
Stinkles
sober, clothed, willing
(04-08-2012, 09:27 PM)
Stinkles's Avatar

Originally Posted by Overdoz1z

Can you use jetpack to get anywhere on the map? :)

You use a magic teleport power to phase in directly behind opposing players in melee range, armed with plasma nades. The only thing that can prevent this, is a giant mech named MechaKyleJ, which stands around flailing its arms until we get down to freeze frame.
AllIsOneIsNone
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:30 PM)
AllIsOneIsNone's Avatar
Not sure how I feel about jetpack making its return. I was kind of hoping for thrusters/double jump/wall jump. I'm all bout dat parkour feel.
CyReN
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:30 PM)
CyReN's Avatar
Crazy game, Devastation is great, just couldn't finish.
Overdoziz
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:30 PM)
Overdoziz's Avatar

Originally Posted by OuterWorldVoice

You use a magic teleport power to phase in directly behind opposing players in melee range, armed with plasma nades. The only thing that can prevent this, is a giant mech named MechaKyleJ, which stands around flailing its arms until we get down to freeze frame.

I'll take your evasive answer as a confirmation that jetpack is unchanged and still breaks the game. Feelsbadman.jpg
CyReN
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:32 PM)
CyReN's Avatar

Originally Posted by OuterWorldVoice

You cannot use Forerunner Vision to see players anywhere on the map. Absolutely not.

Is there any time frame on the podcast to clear up all this "misconception" about Halo 4?
Hypertrooper
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:33 PM)
Hypertrooper's Avatar
Can someone edit Frankie's head on GI Cortanas Body in the next twenty minutes?
MrBig
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:35 PM)
MrBig's Avatar

Originally Posted by Kuroyume

7 best Halo maps

Waterworks
The Pit
Lockout
Terminal
Coagulation
Headlong
Containment

H2 objective 4 life

There can be no other list besides this one. Fact.
Magni
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:35 PM)
Magni's Avatar
Thanks Frankie for all the clarifications, much appreciated.

Originally Posted by Louis Wu

No, absolutely, you SHOULD want the game to be its best. (Even if what YOU think is its best is not what I think is its best.)

But you can't really expect people to engage you in a discussion about that if all of your comments boil down to "IT SUCKS!" and "IT'S FANTASTIC!" (look at those two quotes again) in nearly the same breath.

A lot of people on GAF dislike armor abilities. I get that. And they're disappointed that 343 would ignore their unhappiness and bring those armor abilities back for the next game. I get that, too. (They're disregarding the fact that this community is NOT the bulk of 343's market, but that's fine - almost all sub-communities do that.) What bothers me is that 343 has said, over and over and over again, that they've heard the complaints and concerns, and developed a game that addresses some of these - but the majority of posters are ignoring that and jumping to conclusions because they simply cannot imagine HOW someone could include armor abilities that they might live with.

And I fully agree that when all is said and done, and the game comes out, we MIGHT find that what we get is exactly what the complainers have been worried about. At THAT point, they'd have every right in the world to bitch and scream and vote with their wallets, and find another game to play. But who knows? Maybe they'll find something they actually like!

We're a bit over half a year from release. We're past the point where major features can be added or removed - things you're worried about are either IN THE GAME, or NOT IN THE GAME. (Hmm. I could be wrong about that, I guess. I don't think so, though.) All this yelling about 'preorder cancelled' and 'I'm never buying another 343 product again' is absurd - until you actually know what you're talking about. :(

That's all I was saying.

Thanks for the in-depth reply, your posts always make too much sense :)

Originally Posted by El_Chino

I want Lockout back....again :D

Lockout never made it back. We got Guardian, Blackout, The Cage, Uncaged, but never Lockout :(

My 7 maps:

Chillout
Lockout
Midship
Sanctuary
Warlock
Beaver Creek
The Pit

(so yeah, H2 >>>>>>> H1 > H3 >>> Reach in terms of maps)

I also love maps like Sidewinder or Valhalla, but since I'm more of a 4v4 guy I couldn't sacrifice any spots for those two.
Holiday
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:35 PM)

Originally Posted by OuterWorldVoice

7 Best Halo maps according to me, but not in order because I can't really figure that out:

The Pit

This explains a lot.
JonCha
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:36 PM)
Just thought it'd be cool to set up a Tumblr with quotes from Frank and the rest of the team on Halo 4. The big news has been reported here and elsewhere, but the small quotes being dished out are more interesting at this point. Like the Forerunner Vision quote.
Booshka
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:36 PM)
Booshka's Avatar

Originally Posted by GhaleonEB

Mostly just that on very small maps like Guardian and Sanctuary, having players able to zip from one base to another or from location to location very quickly will have a big impact on the ebb and flow of combat. Trying to return a flag when the entire team has sprint by default, for instance, or cap one when everyone catches up to you twice as fast as before. This is less of an issue on larger maps when players are further from one another.

I won't say that it can't work, just that they'll play very differently, and that the new abilities should be something to consider when desiring a remake. Not all maps will play well with them.

Reach is a constant reminder that remakes dropped into a new combat sandbox are not a guarantee of success. I haven't enjoyed a single one of Reach's remakes anywhere near as much as the originals, and a large part of the reason why are the AA's. (Jetpack on Reflection, for instance.)

Don't forget Instant Respawn, lol. I can't imagine how terrible it will be to try and run a flag with Sprint and Instant Respawn, what a mess that would be.
Rickenslacker
Member
(04-08-2012, 09:36 PM)
Rickenslacker's Avatar
I really liked Turf. Not even talking about the map's layout or anything but just what it was. A little section of Old Mombasa with a Scarab crashed into it. I always liked spots like that in Halo 2's campaign, and it's also partly why I like ODST's hub.

Thread Tools