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SquiddyCracker
Junior Member
(04-09-2012, 02:13 AM)
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Despite being non-canon, I nominate the following rap to be the most godawful star trek moment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBtj4WoC6XA
Cheerilee
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(04-09-2012, 03:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by BattleMonkey

but yea everything about Voyager tends to ignore the early premise they laid out.

No idea if it was ever based on anything official, but I remember from before Voyager started, some told me (in a comic shop or something) that the show was going to have a crewman from a newly-thought-up race of humanoids that only live to around age 10 or so (Kes), so when the ship gets flung 70 years away from Earth, they start panicking and saying that this is an unacceptable situation because they only signed on for a short tour of duty, not to have their rotting corpse dragged home to their descendants several generations later, so they would push harder than anyone else for Voyager to take shortcuts. And on the other end of the spectrum they had a Vulcan (Tuvok) who didn't mind taking an interesting side trip or two (assuming he felt anything), because he would've spent the next 70 years on starships doing less-noteworthy things anyways.

And as it turned out, Kes didn't mind anything and didn't care if her corpse never went home (home was even in the opposite direction), and Tuvok was just a security guard.
Last edited by Cheerilee; 04-09-2012 at 03:53 AM.
Meus Renaissance
Junior Member
(04-09-2012, 03:52 AM)
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Man, how awesome would it be to watch Star Trek episodes together online and discuss it throughout.
PBalfredo
Member
(04-09-2012, 04:10 AM)
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After being immersed in Mass Effect for the last few weeks, I've felt like going and watching some sci-fi. This thread makes me worried I'll just wander into a whole new clusterfuck, like Mass Effect 3's ending.

Any good, recommended episodes to watch?
Meus Renaissance
Junior Member
(04-09-2012, 04:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by PBalfredo

After being immersed in Mass Effect for the last few weeks, I've felt like going and watching some sci-fi. This thread makes me worried I'll just wander into a whole new clusterfuck, like Mass Effect 3's ending.

Any good, recommended episodes to watch?

What series are you interested in?
ThoseDeafMutes
Der Durst ist echt.
(04-09-2012, 04:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jason Raize '75 - '04

Man, how awesome would it be to watch Star Trek episodes together online and discuss it throughout.


If you go to the various Star Trek and SciFi channels on Justin.tv, you can do exactly that for the livestreams.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
(04-09-2012, 04:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jason Raize '75 - '04

Man, how awesome would it be to watch Star Trek episodes together online and discuss it throughout.

We tried with the Great Netflix watch, while it got a bunch of people talking about the show, I don't think anyone followed the schedule.
Cheerilee
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(04-09-2012, 04:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by PBalfredo

After being immersed in Mass Effect for the last few weeks, I've felt like going and watching some sci-fi. This thread makes me worried I'll just wander into a whole new clusterfuck, like Mass Effect 3's ending.

Any good, recommended episodes to watch?

I believe it's best to start with The Original Series, and if you don't feel like watching the entire thing, you at least have to watch some of the "best of" episodes.

Off the top of my head, City on the Edge of Forever, Balance of Terror, and Amok Time are great. The Doomsday Machine, Trouble With Tribbles, and Mirror Mirror as well. Maybe also include Space Seed if you intend to watch the movies, or at least intend to watch Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn, the greatest Trek movie.


Edit: And try to watch the newer remastered versions with new CG if you have a chance. They're the sort of non-Lucas remaster Star Wars deserved, and they enhance the show, not detract from it, unless you're a pretty hardcore purist.
Last edited by Cheerilee; 04-09-2012 at 04:35 AM.
brian577
Member
(04-09-2012, 04:28 AM)
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Worst moment of Star Trek for me would either be Rascals where a bunch Ferengi take the Enterprise in a few obsolete Bird of Preys. Or Force of Nature, where the equivalent of blowing up a nuclear reactor to prove how dangerous they are convinces Star Fleet to limit warp drive only to drop it a few episodes later.
jaxword
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(04-09-2012, 04:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by brian577

Worst moment of Star Trek for me would either be Rascals where a bunch Ferengi take the Enterprise in a few obsolete Bird of Preys.

Like what happened in Generations?
brian577
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(04-09-2012, 04:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by jaxword

Like what happened in Generations?

Similar expect they had no real tactical advantage other than their cloaks and the Enterprise actually had working shields.
PBalfredo
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(04-09-2012, 04:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jason Raize '75 - '04

What series are you interested in?

I got Netflix, which has all the series, right? I watched some of the Q episodes of Next Generation earlier this year. I'd be open to any of the series, though I'm thinking of maybe some DS9. From what I remember, the Federation wasn't as squeaky clean as it was in other series, which always put me off a bit.

I'm surprised Voyager is getting so much hate. Granted most of my previous Star Trek experience was from catching the odd episode that my dad watched. So I was never keen on which series had better continuity and which ones sucked at it. Which is what seems to be the primary complaint lodged against Voyager, yes?
Meus Renaissance
Junior Member
(04-09-2012, 05:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by PBalfredo

I got Netflix, which has all the series, right? I watched some of the Q episodes of Next Generation earlier this year. I'd be open to any of the series, though I'm thinking of maybe some DS9. From what I remember, the Federation wasn't as squeaky clean as it was in other series, which always put me off a bit.

I'm surprised Voyager is getting so much hate. Granted most of my previous Star Trek experience was from catching the odd episode that my dad watched. So I was never keen on which series had better continuity and which ones sucked at it. Which is what seems to be the primary complaint lodged against Voyager, yes?

Voyager judged on its own isn't bad, but it doesn't compare to the others which is really a testament to their popularity more than Voyager's flaws, perceived and real.

If you want to start, I'd recommend Enterprise first. Not necessarily as a measurement of its quality but in recognition of the fact that people judged it with certain expectations in mind beforehand. It's only four seasons long with the latter ones developing into arguably the strongest and best written character development arc seen in Star Trek. Last season is intense and does something not seen in Trek before and does it well. It's unfairly underrated and I pay no attention to its critics nowdays.

DS9, in my opinion, has the most complex set of characters and one you cannot pick up from any random episode but rather the beginning as character development is consistent throughout the entire series. However, when you coem across any episode that relates to the 'Emissary' or focuses on Sisko, do yourself a favour and skip it entirely.

TNG doesn't have a story arc at all, but rather an episodic approach done with more likeable characters than seen in Voyager but yes it does suffer from lack of continuity. But I'd actually recommend beginning with Enterprise.

come at me bros
Last edited by Meus Renaissance; 04-09-2012 at 05:15 AM.
Angry Grimace
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(04-09-2012, 05:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by PBalfredo

After being immersed in Mass Effect for the last few weeks, I've felt like going and watching some sci-fi. This thread makes me worried I'll just wander into a whole new clusterfuck, like Mass Effect 3's ending.

Any good, recommended episodes to watch?

TNG, try to avoid as much Season 1 as possible, and a lot of Season 2. Don't avoid the episode in S2 where Q sends the ship to the Delta Quadrant.
Cheerilee
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(04-09-2012, 05:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jason Raize '75 - '04

Voyager judged on its own isn't bad, but it doesn't compare to the others which is really a testament to their popularity more than Voyager's flaws, perceived and real.

If you want to start, I'd recommend Enterprise first. Not necessarily as a measurement of its quality but in recognition of the fact that people judged it with certain expectations in mind beforehand. It's only four seasons long with the latter ones developing into arguably the strongest and best written character development arc seen in Star Trek. Last season is intense and does something not seen in Trek before and does it well. It's unfairly underrated and I pay no attention to its critics nowdays.

DS9, in my opinion, has the most complex set of characters and one you cannot pick up from any random episode but rather the beginning as character development is consistent throughout the entire series. However, when you coem across any episode that relates to the 'Emissary' or focuses on Sisko, do yourself a favour and skip it entirely.

TNG doesn't have a story arc at all, but rather an episodic approach done with more likeable characters than seen in Voyager but yes it does suffer from lack of continuity. But I'd actually recommend beginning with Enterprise.

come at me bros

Enterprise wasn't made in a vacuum. I think it deserved what it got (although some people always take the hate too far), and it would be silly to try and flip that onto the rest of Trek by making Enterprise your first exposure. And while it gets better as it goes along, it also starts to give more nods to it's predecessors.

A couple of TOS best-of episodes are a good low-commitment way to get into Trek, and you get the benefit of a starting experience that generally parallels what a large part of society got, so you can better relate to other fans. You can follow it with low-commitment TOS movies, which are generally the best movies in all of Trek.

TNG requires a longer and slower commitment to properly appreciate. Followed by DS9. Voyager is kind-of-bland "more Trek", and Enterprise is kind-of-fresh "more Trek".
DrForester
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(04-09-2012, 05:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jason Raize '75 - '04

It's only four seasons long with the latter ones developing into arguably the strongest and best written character development arc seen in Star Trek. Last season is intense and does something not seen in Trek before and does it well. It's unfairly underrated and I pay no attention to its critics nowdays.

Eh, the later seasons were certainly better, and season 4 had a few nice mini-arcs, but I wouldn't say there was particularly strong character development. Some from Trip and T'Pol, but nothing rivaling development seen in DS9. Enterprise just fell flat with a cast of really uninteresting characters, and only occasionally good, but never really brilliant scripts.

Said it in other Trek threads, but at least I can point to one or two Voyager episodes as highlights of the entire Trek franchise, I can't say that about Enterprise. The best Enterprise ever got was a Mirror Universe episode where everyone gets to not act like the boring character they've played for 4 years.
Sir Fragula
(04-09-2012, 12:52 PM)
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I still think the entirity of Series 3 of Enterprise was great, and a lot of the arcs in Series 4 were very entertaining. As soon as individual episodes stopped and we got those arcs, the show improved.

I can't think of any Voyager episodes I can look back on without contempt for every character involved. Pecaaaaaahn-Pie Janeway, nasal-voice Doctor, Cha-who-tay. Ugh.
MMaRsu
I need some paprika. Official moneylender of the Coalition of Muslim Drug Dealers
(04-09-2012, 01:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Htown

Don't be silly.

It's only the worst Star Trek thing ever to grace a TV screen.

Oh come on the new Enterprise series was pretty bad imo.
Margalis
Banned
(04-09-2012, 01:29 PM)
About the Ferengi in TNG, I've read some interviews with the cast and crew and such about that. They were supposed to be set up as a big threat but after they introduced them they immediately realized that they had made them really goofy and had to change course.

Regarding Abrams Trek, the entire plot of the movie is people falling off of stuff and hanging onto ledges.
Last edited by Margalis; 04-09-2012 at 01:34 PM.
Htown
STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
(04-09-2012, 01:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by MMaRsu

Oh come on the new Enterprise series was pretty bad imo.

Season 3 of Enterprise was a better take on the "Starfleet ship far from home in hostile territory" premise than Voyager was.

It's like if they actually did "Year of Hell" for a year instead of chickening out and making it a two parter with a big dumb reset button at the end.
Last edited by Htown; 04-09-2012 at 01:46 PM.
Bufbaf
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(04-09-2012, 01:51 PM)
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If it wasn't for that 'reset button' Voyager could have been so amazing :( I still like it a lot, though, you won't hear much more criticism from me.
Jackpot
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(04-09-2012, 01:55 PM)
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A really bad moment was the DS9 episode where Worf was on trial for blowing up a civilian ship. Not only do they bring in "species-ism" where the prosecutor argues Klingons are inherently violent and it should count as evidence against him but they also use Worf playing violent video games as evidence.
Kinyou
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(04-09-2012, 01:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stumpokapow

I thought BSG did a very good job of showing the effects of scarce resources and being on the run. It's not always perfect of course, and things eventually settled down a bit, but a lot of what occurred on the show was great for this point. You start with 33, where they're jumping all the time and they're tired. They lose their water. They need to find ore. The population count of humanity declines all the time. They lose fighters. And in the end, The Galactica gets more and more damaged until it is eventually unable to be salvaged, and is lost

And at one point they even built their own fighter jet. It seemed a little like an after thought since they did it only once, but it's still better than the magic 17 shuttles from Voyager.
BattleMonkey
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(04-09-2012, 02:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sir Fragula

I still think the entirity of Series 3 of Enterprise was great, and a lot of the arcs in Series 4 were very entertaining. As soon as individual episodes stopped and we got those arcs, the show improved.

I can't think of any Voyager episodes I can look back on without contempt for every character involved. Pecaaaaaahn-Pie Janeway, nasal-voice Doctor, Cha-who-tay. Ugh.

Yes Enterprise had a crappy 1st season, but consistently did get better at least.

Voyager was crap throughout it's entire run.
DoctorWho
BOSS
(04-09-2012, 02:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sax Russel

Huhwhat? This never happened!

As far as I can remember, 4x21, Terra Prime, was the series finale, and it even worked too!

That's right. This never happened! lalalalalala

Fake edit: Actually, the final narration and multiple Enterprise montage was pretty nice.

Just cut and paste the last bit on Terra Prime and be done with it in my opinion.
DoctorWho
BOSS
(04-09-2012, 02:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by elrechazao

Kirk vs god was good. Yeah, I said it.

Kirk vs. God was a common occurrence throughout TOS. He encountered and defeated a deity of some sort every few episodes.
Htown
STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
(04-09-2012, 03:21 PM)
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Yep. Happened a lot.

And there were exactly two kinds of godlike beings: the tricksters that Kirk outsmarts and the benevolent energy beings who say "we were once like you..."
sangreal
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(04-09-2012, 04:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jason Raize '75 - '04

DS9, in my opinion, has the most complex set of characters and one you cannot pick up from any random episode but rather the beginning as character development is consistent throughout the entire series. However, when you coem across any episode that relates to the 'Emissary' or focuses on Sisko, do yourself a favour and skip it entirely.

This is exactly what I did while rewatching DS9 last week. Additionally, I skip anything holodeck or time-travel related. That said, I would watch them all the first time through
JoshuaJSlone
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(04-09-2012, 04:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Slayven

The novels were ghost written by a husband and wife team.

I know, I'm just thinking the percentage of work they did is probably more like 99% than what comes across from their relative billing of

WILLIAM SHATNER
& Judith & Garfield Reeves-Stevens

Originally Posted by MisterHero

Yeah angry old Scotty was kind of annoying, but he's Scotty. I was upset that he just flies off into space; he should've beat Geordi up for leadership or something

Now I'm wondering how they would've worked Chekov into TNG. Maybe just really really old like McCoy?

Here's what Memory Alpha's page for Chekov has to say:

An episode was developed for the seventh season of Star Trek: The Next Generation that would have featured at 24th-Century Pavel Chekov. Writer Naren Shankar is quoted in the September 1994 issue of Sci Fi Universe: "It never went anywhere. I was working on a Chekov story where he returns as a prisoner-of-war from a planet where he was imprisoned for many years and finally released. Now he has come back as an ambassador to help the Federation open up diplomatic relations, like Vietnam, essentially. The story was going to be about Worf and Chekov, because they're both Russian and Worf has heard about him and they kind of strike up a relationship together. Throughout the course of the negotiations with these people, it appears as though Chekov is sabotaging them. It turns out he is plotting to use the Enterprise to lay waste to their capital for revenge and to screw things up for the Federation because he feels they abandoned him and let these people torture him."

Originally Posted by Angry Grimace

1) Data getting emotions in the movie so that there's a significant character development that changes the entire character, but it's not like there's any time time to explore that in a 2 hour movie.

My problem with it is they basically reneged on it. It was a major development for him in Generations, pretty well integrated in First Contact, then for the last two movies they just decided to go completely oldschool emotionless Data.

Originally Posted by MattKeil

I had some limited interaction with him at TechTV and he seemed like a very nice and interesting guy to me. Very willing to engage in honest and critical discussion of TNG

This reminds me, his "Memories of the Future" is a pretty good read, even if there's so far only one volume covering the first half of the first season.
Loofy
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(04-10-2012, 07:11 AM)
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Was ever explained why the Voyager crew never thought to make more holographic crewmates?

Its been said that the ship was severely understaffed, I mean instead of making the pilot(paris) the backup doctor wouldnt it have made more sense to have two or maybe three holographic doctors?
And theres a few times where the doctor was successfully used for missions. Wouldnt it make sense to use holograms for dangerous tasks? maybe even have holographic soldiers?
There was even that episode where the doctors mobile emitter was made with a regular replicator. Couldnt have been hard..
sangreal
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(04-10-2012, 07:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Loofy

Was ever explained why the Voyager crew never thought to make more holographic crewmates?

Its been said that the ship was severely understaffed, I mean instead of making the pilot(paris) the backup doctor wouldnt it have made more sense to have two or maybe three holographic doctors?
And theres a few times where the doctor was successfully used for missions. Wouldnt it make sense to use holograms for dangerous tasks? maybe even have holographic soldiers?
There was even that episode where the doctors mobile emitter was made with a regular replicator. Couldnt have been hard..

it does seem like they could use the holodeck for productive purposes rather than shitty episodes, but I don't remember them ever replicating the mobile emitter? Don't see any mention of it on memory-alpha either
BigJonsson
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(04-10-2012, 09:15 AM)
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Wasn't the EMH some brand new technology that consisted more of a hologram and a computer?

Or was that really all it was and no one in starfleet/Paramount had thought of it until Voyager lol
Tookay
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(04-10-2012, 09:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Margalis

Regarding Abrams Trek, the entire plot of the movie is people falling off of stuff and hanging onto ledges.

That's about the most accurate summary I've seen yet for that turd.

Originally Posted by JoshuaJSlone

Here's what Memory Alpha's page for Chekov has to say:

Would have been interesting, but it kind of seems out of character for him. Then again, he would have been in a prison camp for a long time so maybe not.
Last edited by Tookay; 04-10-2012 at 09:21 AM.
GrotesqueBeauty
Molasses Jones X
(04-10-2012, 09:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Tookay

That's about the most accurate summary I've seen yet for that turd.

Psssh, it was so much more multilayered than that. You're ignoring all the "kooky" slapstick comedy and lens flares. And don't forget emo Spock, the passive aggressive bitch. You know, stuff that really gets to the core of what the franchise is about.
Cheerilee
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(04-10-2012, 10:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by Loofy

Was ever explained why the Voyager crew never thought to make more holographic crewmates?

Its been said that the ship was severely understaffed, I mean instead of making the pilot(paris) the backup doctor wouldnt it have made more sense to have two or maybe three holographic doctors?
And theres a few times where the doctor was successfully used for missions. Wouldnt it make sense to use holograms for dangerous tasks? maybe even have holographic soldiers?
There was even that episode where the doctors mobile emitter was made with a regular replicator. Couldnt have been hard..

They made a medical specialist hologram who saved B'Elanna's life, but his personality/appearance was based on the public profile of a Nazi Cardassian who gained some of his knowledge through horrific means, so the Doctor personally and willfully executed this hologram that had done nothing wrong, and deleted all of his related data, to ensure that nobody on Voyager would ever be able to re-create him or benefit from "dirty" science.

They also made a holographic command officer, but they just made him an alternate mode for the Doctor, instead of basing him on a new personality, or just making a copy of the Doctor's personality. And since he's the only qualified doctor on the ship, he can only go on bridge duty when they're really, really screwed for bridge officers. Brilliant! It's about as smart as putting your ace pilot in charge of the first aid kit.
catmincer
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(04-10-2012, 10:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by ruby_onix

They made a medical specialist hologram who saved B'Elanna's life, but his personality/appearance was based on the public profile of a Nazi Cardassian who gained some of his knowledge through horrific means, so the Doctor personally and willfully executed this hologram that had done nothing wrong, and deleted all of his related data, to ensure that nobody on Voyager would ever be able to re-create him or benefit from "dirty" science.

They also made a holographic command officer, but they just made him an alternate mode for the Doctor, instead of basing him on a new personality, or just making a copy of the Doctor's personality. And since he's the only qualified doctor on the ship, he can only go on bridge duty when they're really, really screwed for bridge officers. Brilliant! It's about as smart as putting your ace pilot in charge of the first aid kit.

There was also an episode where they made a replacement doctor from scratch. It wasn't ideal.
Cheebo
Cheebs
(04-10-2012, 10:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by GrotesqueBeauty

Psssh, it was so much more multilayered than that. You're ignoring all the "kooky" slapstick comedy and lens flares. And don't forget emo Spock, the passive aggressive bitch. You know, stuff that really gets to the core of what the franchise is about.

Too bad it was the most popular Trek film ever and will fuel the franchise for years and years to come. Star Trek as a franchise would be dead without it.

Star Trek '09 got Star Trek right more than anything since 1991. It was fantastic and the best Trek film since Wrath of Khan.
BigDug13
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(04-10-2012, 11:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by jaxword

Like what happened in Generations?

God, don't even get me started on that one. Borg cube fires, adjust our shield modulation. Crappy little Bird of Prey gets through shields, I guess we're fucked.
Cheerilee
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(04-10-2012, 11:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by catmincer

There was also an episode where they made a replacement doctor from scratch. It wasn't ideal.

IIRC, Tom was stuck in sickbay during the Andy Dick episode in season 4. He asked Harry to bail him out by making a new EMH. Harry pulled a record of the Doctor's physical appearance and clicked copy-paste on the computer's medical database, at which point the hologram started reciting textbooks. Then Harry pulled the plug on his feeble attempt and told Tom to screw himself, because Harry doesn't know how to make an EMH and had better things to do than play with Tom in sickbay/prison.

Then in season 5, Harry made the fully-functional medical specialist program. I guess he learned more about it in the time between, and he definitely cared more about his work the second time, and he had the Doctor on hand for reference.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Robert Picardo

My favorite Andy Dick story is this. About three or four days into the shooting he says to me, 'So your name is Picardo. It's so close to Captain Picard. Do you get teased a lot about that?' And I said, 'Your name is Andy Dick, and you're going to make fun of mine?'

Last edited by Cheerilee; 04-10-2012 at 11:21 AM.
MC Safety
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(04-10-2012, 11:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by Cheebo

Too bad it was the most popular Trek film ever and will fuel the franchise for years and years to come. Star Trek as a franchise would be dead without it.

Star Trek '09 got Star Trek right more than anything since 1991. It was fantastic and the best Trek film since Wrath of Khan.

Star Trek IV and Star Trek VI were better than Star Trek.

Star Trek's plot was a mess, and could only be properly explained by referring to content that was cut from the original run time. That's not the mark of a good film, let alone a fantastic one.
Lucky Forward
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(04-10-2012, 01:14 PM)
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In TNG there was the two-parter where Worf resigned his commission and left Starfleet. They made a big deal out of it, with a ceremony and implications that he was making a life-altering decision. At the end of the second part, Worf asks Picard, "Permission to rejoin Starfleet?" Picard says, "Permission granted!" Huh?

Originally Posted by Angry Grimace

The real No. 1 should be in the 2009 movie how Kirk gets promoted to Captain straight from Ensign as a reward for repeatedly breaking the rules. There's no rational reason for this to occur at all, but it does.

And never mind that Kirk doesn't have the skill set, experience, and savvy necessary to be an effective captain. The captaincy of the Enterprise is apparently something they give away like a prize.
Bitmap Frogs
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(04-10-2012, 01:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mama Robotnik

I wrote this for GAF, and to start a discussion about Trek's weaker moments and anything I’ve missed.


13. Voyager’s shuttles

When Star Trek Voyager came out, it was an exciting premise for the franchise. A lone starship trapped in deep space, struggling with no resources, no allies, no repairs and no hope! A crew of direct enemies whose opposing philosophies would undoubtedly lead to tension and conflict! A continuing saga of survival and desperation in the untamed wilderness beyond known space!

What we got was the safest, dullest, most boring show of the entire franchise, that didn’t use its premise in the slightest. Nearly all plot developments were deleted by the infamous metaphorical “Voyager reset button” by the end of each episode. In seven years, not a single brave decision had been made regarding anything. Deep Space Nine’s Ronald D Moore offered his scathing view on the shallowness of the show:





The best observation that the writers of Voyager didn’t give a shit about their premise and were likely in it just for the money, was the infamous Voyager shuttlecraft count. The series bible (apparently) said something like this:



And there is dialogue explaining that the crew simply do not have the resources to rebuild photon torpedoes or shuttles. As this website will tell you, Voyager destroyed about seventeen of its two shuttlecraft during the show. The writers of Voyager seemed to have nothing but contempt for the unique scenario they created in their own show.

This one hits a soft spot.

I'm european so for many years before the internet became mainstream we were at the mercy of distributors when it came to enjoying foreign content and being a small market (remember over here it's not just the "euro" market, we're split in countries with different languages that require different dubs), well, it wasn't the best of situations.

I had watched runs of TOS and besides the goofyness (this was the late 80s - early 90s) I grew a likeness for the show and it's wacky yet insipired storylines. At some point they stopped running TOS and replaced it by TNG - this was a huge disappointed for me as TNG was supremely boring. Kirk's charisma was gone, Spock's wackyness gone, Bones stoicness gone (I always LOVED his permanent WTF IS THIS SHIT acting). Instead TNG was boring, boring, boring and more boring. So I forgot about it.

A few years later, there was a Voyager promotion - the show would not air, but instead tapes would be sold regularly every two weeks at cheap prices. Remembering the good times had with TOS and reading the new show premise on the tapes, I thought this could be a return to the old days when there was no federation and boring diplomacy and instead it was all about the ship and the people in it. So I took the plunge and bought the first two tapes that had 4 episodes.

Holy crap, it was awful. Truly awful.

That day I stopped caring about Trek altogether =/

Luckily however, JJ Abrams came to the rescue ;D
Dax01
Prefers her Trek sans Abrams
(04-10-2012, 01:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by sangreal

This is exactly what I did while rewatching DS9 last week. Additionally, I skip anything holodeck or time-travel related. That said, I would watch them all the first time through

You're going to skip "The Visitor," and "Doctor Bashir, I Presume?"?

You're going to skip "The Visitor"?!
jaxword
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(04-10-2012, 01:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by BigDug13

God, don't even get me started on that one. Borg cube fires, adjust our shield modulation. Crappy little Bird of Prey gets through shields, I guess we're fucked.

Yep, Generations was a mess. Just like how Trek started to go downhill once Braga's Time Travel obsession invaded all the plotlines.

Cheebo
Cheebs
(04-10-2012, 01:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by MC Safety

Star Trek IV and Star Trek VI were better than Star Trek

Best thing in Trek since VI though. I love TNG and First Contact as great sci-fi but they just weren't Star Trek. They missed the excitement and adventure, that sense of a wild west in space where you were on your own and had no idea what you were running into.

This will always be what defines Star Trek to me:
Last edited by Cheebo; 04-10-2012 at 01:40 PM.
sangreal
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(04-10-2012, 01:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lucky Forward

In TNG there was the two-parter where Worf resigned his commission and left Starfleet. They made a big deal out of it, with a ceremony and implications that he was making a life-altering decision. At the end of the second part, Worf asks Picard, "Permission to rejoin Starfleet?" Picard says, "Permission granted!" Huh?

Haha, this is basically how DS9 starts too, but Picard makes Sisko beg to come back (and claims that he forgot to tell Starfleet command during the several days in between)
FStop7
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(04-10-2012, 01:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Qasiel

Captain Janeway

That's it.

Just Janeway. Terrible, terrible character. She's a jerk with a dumb Katharine Hepburn ripoff accent.
Bitmap Frogs
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(04-10-2012, 01:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cheebo

Best thing in Trek since VI though. I love TNG and First Contact as great sci-fi but they just weren't Star Trek. They missed the excitement and adventure, that sense of a wild west in space where you were on your own and had no idea what you were running into.

This will always be what defines Star Trek to me:

Also the characters and the way they were portrayed by the actors. Anything beyond TOS with the exception of some of the TOS movies and JJ's flick is just a sea of boring, like if they sucked the fun and emotion and were left with robots emotionless spouting lines.
Htown
STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
(04-10-2012, 01:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by jaxword

Yep, Generations was a mess. Just like how Trek started to go downhill once Braga's Time Travel obsession invaded all the plotlines.

"Time's up!"
Cheebo
Cheebs
(04-10-2012, 01:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bitmap Frogs

Also the characters and the way they were portrayed by the actors. Anything beyond TOS with the exception of some of the TOS movies and JJ's flick is just a sea of boring, like if they sucked the fun and emotion and were left with robots emotionless spouting lines.

Yes yes yes. They abandoned the fun. The Pulpy Space Opera aspect was all gone. It became hard sci-fi which TOS never was.

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