I believe I gave you numbers the last few times we discussed this. It always ended with you ignoring the posts. How about you provide a few figures this time?
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How Much Money Do We Think iOS Games Actually Make?!
- Thread starter RedSwirl
- Start date
No, it's not relevant. If I sell a trillion dollars worth of widgets for a profit of $1M, and you sell a million dollars worth of software for a profit of $500K, how are our businesses in any way comparable?
Looking at gross revenue doesn't tell you anything. I'm not even saying Nintendo necessarily should sell their games on ios, I'm just saying that comparison is stupid. Nintendo spends a ton of money to create that $12B in revenue.
We don't have them. That's the whole point. IIRC, you showed me some vague revenue numbers from 2009. The explosive growth of the app store means that 2009 might as well be 1859.
Pureauthor
Member
It is very relevant because Nintendo's entire strategy is making it so that you cannot separate their hardware from their software. Their hardware is designed around the software ideas they have in mind, and they will not release their IPs for iOS simply because it would be Nintendo software without Nintendo hardware, which is anathema to them.
Haunted
Member
Oh, absolutely.
It's just amplified in social/mobile gaming. A matter of numbers, really. More games (apps), more losers.
UncleSporky
Member
Explosive growth in the number of games released for a platform means the average amount earned per game goes down.
We do have numbers. I posted some. There are more. But even the numbers posted in this very thread show clearly that the market simply isn't worthwhile for a company like Nintendo.
I made nothing off sQuiz: Reel Trivia. I think its a pretty good quality game, but we haven't sent it out to reviewers yet so its basically been sent to die. We'll send it out to reviewers once we get the multiplayer in... but yeah all the BIG publishers get the best spots on iTunes store... its really hard to compete when you start out.... but people like Beril... once you do a couple of apps and get the hang of it, you get better and better and can probably make a decent living off it.
Hopefully iOS 6 doesn't change it up too much and hopefully the iPhone 5 stays the same development wise... i would hate to get another screen size... three screen sizes is enough to think about for now.
Hopefully iOS 6 doesn't change it up too much and hopefully the iPhone 5 stays the same development wise... i would hate to get another screen size... three screen sizes is enough to think about for now.
Software revenue VS. Software and Hardware revenue with no idea of profit margins?
It's almost as if that was a useless comparison!
Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't sales-age), but those numbers look pretty good to me.
The problem with your belief is that Nintendo, like Apple, wants to control the experience they give to their consumers. Also, you are under the mistaken belief that developing games for iOS is less expensive than the other portables when it is not. iOS games feature lower development budgets because the pricing model cannot support higher budgets. The risk is too great for a AAA budget when the store hasn't shown it can support games priced high enough to support the budget. Nintendo has the highest margins on their own platform and they control the experience top to bottom. If they had to deal with Apple who gives to shits about games, they couldn't control what is in the new hardware, software and everything.
If Nintendo were to develop a mainline Pokemon game for iOS the cost would be the same as if it were developed on the DS. The number of people working on the game wouldn't change. They would still need the artists, engineers, programers, designers, testers, etc but the price of which they can charge would drop from $40 to about $10. For people who are on the iOS train, call me when a game releases in the App Store for $40 and is a big hit, doesn't drop in price, and continues to sell for YEARS after its initial release.
Haunted
Member
That's exactly what happened, it's just that the big publishers aren't the same as in the console space but rather we're seeing some new empires emerge (because traditional big publishers were too slow to commit). Zynga, Gameloft etc.
The Faceless Master
Member
it's a tough choice between 70% of $1 x ??m sales vs 70% of $35 x ??m sales
they would have to push 35x the units to make the same amount of money.
but charge $5 you say?!? still have to sell 7x the units and at a price that's less attractive.1
they would have to push 35x the units to make the same amount of money.
but charge $5 you say?!? still have to sell 7x the units and at a price that's less attractive.1
Wiktor
Member
for small time indie devs? Sure. But they also show the market isn't still anywhere near big enough to make any real difference in Nintendo's earnings.
Except that the day Nintendo starts making iOS games is the day they stop being a hardware manufacturer. So the revenue they get from that part of their business is entirely relevant.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
So Nintendo wouldn't lose any of their hardware business if they went after iOS? Cool.
It's revenue in both cases, so it's apples to apples, sorry.
And of course Nintendo wouldn't get all that App Store revenue to themselves, further showing the futility of an attempt.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
We can't compare margins because we don't have that information for the app store.
However, we can at least pretend we're Nintendo and say, "boy, I wonder if I should put Mario on the iDevices." And then they do some quick math and realize that even if they make a "killing" in that space, it would be a pointless endeavor compared to investing more resources into a new 3DS/WiiU game to push their hardware, which as you stated would be what they have put plenty of money into already.
It highlights the point I was making earlier in the thread, divorced from those numbers, which is that Nintendo cares more about the validity of their IP's so that they can keep their hardware valuable versus a pittance of a app store income.
That's kind of the point: That they're heavily subsidised by being released on another platform first. You can't make a brand new GTA for iOS only, just like you couldn't make it for Steam.
Platforms like that don't attract exclusive triple A content, because there isn't enough money to be made on them alone. What you can do is either make a smaller game or port a game that's already made(or are in the process of making) a lot of its revenue on another platform. Expecting new games with the same scope made from scratch is unrealistic.
But ports or otherwise that still doesn't explain why developers release their games on iOS, if they don't make money? There's plenty of other platforms out there that they could aim for instead.
What I don't understand is why the people who keep saying that they would love to buy Mario for their iPhone but won't buy it for the Nintendo 3DS. If you really want to play Nintendo games then get a 3DS. It's not expensive and it has games you (apparently) want to play. Just like, if someone really wants to play a group of iOS games they should get an iPhone and play them.
Maybe. And people also scream at third parties all the time for not wanting to touch Nintendo platforms while their user base numbers are low.
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
This and same with with Vita for me and many many other people, no idea why they wouldn't release 2-3 year old games on iOS.
flyinpiranha
Member
Quadrillions of dollars.
Wiktor
Member
Many of them are just angry. They expected smartphones to kill handhelds and yet 3DS is flying of the shelves proving there's still a huge market for those kind of devices and games. Nintendo simply proved them dead wrong and people do not like when this is done to them.
Fixed.
If you are happy playing old games that do not control well, at all, then that's great for you. iOS fans are like Wii fans from 2007-2009 always wanting these games on their platform because it's selling extremely well. They don't care that the controls would be like shit because it is on their platform of choice. Well, I actually want the best game I can get and regardless of the platform and I'm not willing to compromise on the interface because I like my iPhone. Most of these ancient console game ports have been terrible. Hell! Chrono Trigger played like shit on my iPhone compared to the DS version and it cost the same amount as the superior version when it came out. I do not get the allegiance to Apple and that people are willing to put their allegiance to Apple above their (supposed) love for the gaming hobby.
Glass Rebel
Member
Yes, everything should be on iOS, regardless of whether it makes business sense.
I love my iPhone and I'd love to have Advance Wars and Fire Emblem on it but it makes no fucking sense for Nintendo to put their games on a rival system.
I love my iPhone and I'd love to have Advance Wars and Fire Emblem on it but it makes no fucking sense for Nintendo to put their games on a rival system.
Right, but actually getting pub is very difficult. Word of mouth is about the only way to get a run away success. It also helps if Apple spotlights your game specifically on the landing page for the App store.
yeah basically. the mobile market is very much like the lottery in terms of making it big. most people end up gaining nothing or losing money. people flock to the platform due to the success stories of games like angry birds, the financial risk being lower and freedom from being independent but a lot dont seem to realise it's not all gum drops and sugar titties.
Why does it have to be so extreme? They bang out a few old ports and supplemental apps and all of a sudden they must pack up the core business?
Revenue means nothing when we have no idea of the profit margins. You can make ten times the revenue that I do and still come out with less money. Again, I don't see why Nintendo must abandon their core business.
I don't even know why I'm arguing about this, I don't give a shit where Nintendo put their games. I think they'd benefit from putting out a few 'lite' or 'companion' apps, but ultimately as long as the app store is healthy, I'm happy.
BlackBanditSho
Member
I want all of the Warioware games. I think those would be a great fit for the platform. Mario games? Not until the rumored ios controller happens. 16bit Zelda? Possible...
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
"iCultist" is basically like "Xbot", "Stard", etc.
Personally I think mario should come to Vita so I don't have to buy a 3ds!
IT'S ONLY FAIR NINTENDO!
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
Most of us are not willing to carry yet another device around with us, especially when all it does is play games.
For me the days of dedicated gaming devices are long long long gone
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
It's all we have and a pretty solid indication.
Then I don't know either because "companion apps" which they've already done in some ways isn't what the thread is about.
If you were discussing something different to what other people you've been arguing with have been all this time, cool, I guess.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
EDIT: Bah. I won't even.
Haunted
Member
I've honestly never heard Stard before, and I know my share of Sony fan insults.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
SmokyDave said:
The problem is that Nintendo need every exclusive franchise they've got to support their hardware platforms. Sure Mario will always be their mascot and biggest seller, but they need other properties to keep the pot bubbling between flagship releases.
Nintendo have always made money off of innovative software and hardware, so its probably not in their interests to weaken one pillar even if it strengthen's another. Especially when it involves giving up the total brand-control that they've worked hard on for many years.
Glass Rebel
Member
I guess I thought we were discussing whether Nintendo could utilise the app store in any financially rewarding way. I feel that they could, without compromising their core brand. Re-reading the OP, I realise we're actually discussing whether Nintendo should pack in their stuff and go all-in with iOS. No, no they shouldn't. Wouldn't work for either party.
Pureauthor
Member
GameFAQS' NGG board had 'PSTools' and 'Nintendrones' back in the day.
I don't know why I remember that.
Dreams-Visions
Member
hmm. too early for popcorn.
*scrambles eggs*
*scrambles eggs*
+1
ITT: even Nintendo couldn't sell games on iOS to millions of iOS gamers if they so chose to make them. Every game developer = Nintendo. You can't make this shit up.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
In the interest of transparency it was noted that figure is from the store's launch to July 2011, LTD, not a single year (or half).
While I agree, that doesn't mean Nintendo of all companies should make games for iOS. Instead, they should make a smartphone. And keep eShop regulations in place. I believe a lot of customers would prefer a shop with less, higher quality content, even if that means more expensive games.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Yes, Nintendo should make a SMARTPHONE.
Is everyone seeing this stuff? Is this real life? Can someone confirm I read what I just read? Again, you can't make this shit up.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
I'm an idiot who got worried too fast about the sources he quoted. Thanks.
EDIT: So yeah, that would be "2011 revenue" for Nintendo and "LTD revenue as of July 2011" for the App Store. Damn!