panama chief
Member
hey nintendo.....make all your games online capable and stop thinking we all huddle in a fucking group!! not all americans live in NYC or LA and have a million people to walk by on a daily basis.
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Nintendo wants 3x Japanese (3DS?) success in the U.S.: What should they do?
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Criminal Upper
Banned
Stop letting Ubisoft publish their handheld offerings on it.
Hale-XF11
Member
To put it plainly, the 3DS is not a fully realized gaming system here in the west.
All of the requested features listed previously in this thread are ideas we've been screaming about since day one, but it feels like pulling teeth to get Nintendo to implement anything we care about over here.
Also, I agree with everyone saying there's simply not enough western support, though I guess the lack of native dual analog sticks has really hampered things in that regard. Right now, the system is really lacking a high profile 'dude-bro' market. I feel sorta dirty saying that, but it's true.
But, if games like Revelaitons are anything to go by, the market is there, ready and waiting with cash in hand. Make the games and the people will buy them.
All of the requested features listed previously in this thread are ideas we've been screaming about since day one, but it feels like pulling teeth to get Nintendo to implement anything we care about over here.
Also, I agree with everyone saying there's simply not enough western support, though I guess the lack of native dual analog sticks has really hampered things in that regard. Right now, the system is really lacking a high profile 'dude-bro' market. I feel sorta dirty saying that, but it's true.
But, if games like Revelaitons are anything to go by, the market is there, ready and waiting with cash in hand. Make the games and the people will buy them.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
I genuinely question whether or not this market exists. Do the big-time console gamers want to play on handhelds? I think there's a separate market here and trying to encroach on the other is going to be disastrous, especially considering how much the industry already caters to the blockbuster loving console gamer.
aliencowz7
Member
I think they are kind of the same issue though, if you want to enjoy 3x the jp sales in America you need that market, college guys are just way to big a part of the people that buy games here for it to be nonexistant on handhelds.
If they are content not reaching that market on a handheld then they wouldn't be trying for something like 3X jp sales here.
Hale-XF11
Member
Well, you probably make a good point. I often feel like I'm in the minority or in a different group of gamers altogether when I find myself begging for more big budget, console-like experiences on Nintendo's handhelds. Now that I know that those types of games can work on the 3DS (again, citing Revelaitons here) it only strengthens my convictions towards my own personal desire for bigger games on the go.
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
This is Gaf , it's apparent almost no one here represents "normal" average people\consumers.
3DS is mostly getting the kid and Nintendo fan market. They need more appeal to women and older adults like they got with DS and Wii. They don't have those games quite yet though and they need them.
They need to promote more synergy with smart-phones. Everyone has a smart-phone but they need to promote the idea they need a game system too. Certainly 3DS has experiences you won't get on smart-phones. This gets tricky with Wii U because it's understood that most adults would play at home and Wii U caters to that specifically. It may just be that they should stress Wii U harder in the West and make up the difference.
I do think the their DD plans will be best received in the US though. That could spur a good deal of software growth.
They need to promote more synergy with smart-phones. Everyone has a smart-phone but they need to promote the idea they need a game system too. Certainly 3DS has experiences you won't get on smart-phones. This gets tricky with Wii U because it's understood that most adults would play at home and Wii U caters to that specifically. It may just be that they should stress Wii U harder in the West and make up the difference.
I do think the their DD plans will be best received in the US though. That could spur a good deal of software growth.
That strategy has worked wonders for Sony.
mentalfloss
Banned
I don't know how, but they'll do it.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
The "college guy market" (which I would categorize as AAA blockbuster action) rides the hype train every so often, but it's not big enough to sustain the developers that are aiming for it right now, much less a new platform that's handheld of all things. Look at games like Homefront petering off. Look at the declining sales of Call of Duty. It's an active market, but it's not one ripe for the type of growth Nintendo could benefit from.
If that market cared about handhelds, the Vita would have gotten a lot more attention, because it's aimed squarely at them. But the apathy is a signal. (EDIT: Though to be fair, some of it is Sony's fault. But it's not like the market doesn't hype itself over all other things.)
I understand. I'm loving Kid Icarus: Uprising. It's one of the biggest handheld games I've ever played. However, I'm wary of handhelds falling into the game "blossoming budgets" trap that consoles are now in. That ecosystem doesn't support anything but the best, and it suffers for it creatively.
Not in Japan.
fabricated backlash
Member
It's not really surprising though. At least in Europe prices for games are ridiculously high on the 3DS. It's almost cynical to charge 40+ Euros for a handheld game.
For Europe I'd say a price reduction on games is in order. Lower it to 30 or 35 Euros and actually advertise and push it instead of making embarassing attempts at selling both DS and 3DS at the same time while being unable to distinguish both in their marketing.
Also, in both the US and EU neither MK nor SM3DL caught on as well as they hoped.
Kid Icarus too was a complete overlooked bomb in Europe and I can't see Mario Tennis to do any better.
If anything, I'd expect NSMB2 to actually accelerate sales on the 3DS on both hard and software. A redesign might also be needed to get people interested. The horrible battery life and the tiny screens make a lot of people wait for a redesign.
For Europe I'd say a price reduction on games is in order. Lower it to 30 or 35 Euros and actually advertise and push it instead of making embarassing attempts at selling both DS and 3DS at the same time while being unable to distinguish both in their marketing.
Also, in both the US and EU neither MK nor SM3DL caught on as well as they hoped.
Kid Icarus too was a complete overlooked bomb in Europe and I can't see Mario Tennis to do any better.
If anything, I'd expect NSMB2 to actually accelerate sales on the 3DS on both hard and software. A redesign might also be needed to get people interested. The horrible battery life and the tiny screens make a lot of people wait for a redesign.
I'm curious as to what Nintendo's take on the F2P model would be if brought to one of their major franchises. They've been so unpredictable with the online stuff so far that it could be a trainwreck or their next big thing. I'm not sure if F2P causes automatic recoil in Nintendo circles the way iOS does, but the model has proven to be a hugely successful one if handled right - they even have Play Coins built into the system as a means to earn in game currency in addition to cash.
More big console franchise ports and side stories from outsourced developers seems like a surefire path to a safe, unessential platform. Nintendo's original take on Maple Story, Neopets or (god forbid) FarmVille just might hit and hit big, especially in their target demographic. The fabled Pokemon MMO idea would probably work in this capacity as well.
Keep focusing on the kids/parents Nintendo, that's where the cash is - we'll still be here to buy your shit no matter what but we won't give you the numbers you want by ourselves.
More big console franchise ports and side stories from outsourced developers seems like a surefire path to a safe, unessential platform. Nintendo's original take on Maple Story, Neopets or (god forbid) FarmVille just might hit and hit big, especially in their target demographic. The fabled Pokemon MMO idea would probably work in this capacity as well.
Keep focusing on the kids/parents Nintendo, that's where the cash is - we'll still be here to buy your shit no matter what but we won't give you the numbers you want by ourselves.
0-2 good games per year is not anywhere near enough. They need to have quality first party titles out every 1-2 months consistently, at least until there's a decent-sized library. Nintendo is such a big company, they can easily do this. Perhaps dividing up their internal developers into many very small teams would get things moving. Nintendo has a lot of very talented, creative developers. It would be nice to see some more of that creativity more often. I haven't picked up my 3DS this year at all, and primarily used it before to play DS games. Nintendo should stop worrying about antagonizing 3rd party developers by making better games than them, more frequently, for Nintendo's own platform. First they need to worry about giving people a reason to play 3DS at all.
aliencowz7
Member
Vita may be perfectly made to take hold of the college guy market or whatever you want to call it( not sure it even sounds right to me) but there simply haven't been any games to take advantage of it. I don't think that that market is overly against handheld games or anything, I just don't think it has been tapped into yet.
Without those kinds of games though, the higher budget action games, the shooters, the real meat and bones of the US mainstream stuff, I simply cant see them getting 3X the jp sales here.
Without those kinds of games though, the higher budget action games, the shooters, the real meat and bones of the US mainstream stuff, I simply cant see them getting 3X the jp sales here.
bigtroyjon
Member
How is that relevant in a thread about improving US sales?
As much as I would miss the memes, I think the answer is to replace Reggie and restructure NoA. They need somebody who will steer the American branch to being as aggressive as NCL is being in Japan. Reggie's apparent strategic preferences work great when their system is printing money, but not so well when they need to lift their system out of the doldrums, and NoA have shown a slowness to adapt.
I don't think Iwata's targets are attainable with the way that smartphone gaming has impacted the market in America. The gap in the shape of the US and Japanese markets is only widening. That said, the 3DS could be performing much stronger than it has been as a platform for dedicated gamers.
First, they should discontinue the DS. People are still buying that platform for the large back catalogue. Sales exceeded expectations over the past year. Killing through competitive price drop is not enough, they need to clear that hardware out of retail and drive people to buy a 3DS if they want to buy Super Mario 64 DS.
Secondly, they should do a lot more to bring small and indy developers to the 3DS. Big western developers have no interest in developing for a dedicated handheld, and attempting to fight for their support would be futile. The indie sphere overwhelmingly targets iOS and there's no hope of changing that, but it's possible that there's a good number of garage devs out there that would like to release their games on the less crowded market of a dedicated handheld, with a userbase potentially more open to certain styles of game. Nintendo need to court these developers by making it a hell of a lot easier to acquire their development tools. They still adhere to an outdated, overly restrictive policy that seems to have been designed to stop low quality junk ware from flooding platforms like NES and GameBoy, but it's ridiculous in an age with such a competitive indy development scene.
This is the only kind of western support they have a good chance of picking up, so Nintendo need to start taking it more seriously, and soon. Making the platform one strongly associated with fun, small, quirky experiences using traditional game controls would be one way to carve out a lucrative niche for the platform.
Thirdly, games, games, games. Skipping major Japanese titles that NoA and western publishers doubted the financial viability of worked in the past, but with the horrible state of western support, it doesn't cut it anymore. I'd wager that the huge gaps in the 3DS schedule in the west are seriously hurting its perception. Nintendo's first party heavy hitters can only carry the system so far. Ramping up localization efforts is the only way to ensure the system has a steady steam of new games. Even if some of these releases are turbo bombs, it would be a worthwhile investment for the system because it would be clear evidence that Nintendo are constantly working behind the scenes to ensure 3DS owners have something to play. With Nintendo now introducing DD for retail titles, as well as a relatively risk free means of selling niche games at retail in the form of game download cards, they now have no excuse not to start bringing over all the major Japanese games to America and Europe. I think even something as niche as Hatsune Miku would be profitable with a well priced, DD exclusive, quick and dirty text translated release.
For the future, I think Nintendo need to try a lot harder with the unique selling point of their next handheld. 3D, a purely visual enhancement, clearly wasn't good enough. They need something so unique that many in the mass audience will be willing to pay to play the system in addition to their smartphones.
I don't think Iwata's targets are attainable with the way that smartphone gaming has impacted the market in America. The gap in the shape of the US and Japanese markets is only widening. That said, the 3DS could be performing much stronger than it has been as a platform for dedicated gamers.
First, they should discontinue the DS. People are still buying that platform for the large back catalogue. Sales exceeded expectations over the past year. Killing through competitive price drop is not enough, they need to clear that hardware out of retail and drive people to buy a 3DS if they want to buy Super Mario 64 DS.
Secondly, they should do a lot more to bring small and indy developers to the 3DS. Big western developers have no interest in developing for a dedicated handheld, and attempting to fight for their support would be futile. The indie sphere overwhelmingly targets iOS and there's no hope of changing that, but it's possible that there's a good number of garage devs out there that would like to release their games on the less crowded market of a dedicated handheld, with a userbase potentially more open to certain styles of game. Nintendo need to court these developers by making it a hell of a lot easier to acquire their development tools. They still adhere to an outdated, overly restrictive policy that seems to have been designed to stop low quality junk ware from flooding platforms like NES and GameBoy, but it's ridiculous in an age with such a competitive indy development scene.
This is the only kind of western support they have a good chance of picking up, so Nintendo need to start taking it more seriously, and soon. Making the platform one strongly associated with fun, small, quirky experiences using traditional game controls would be one way to carve out a lucrative niche for the platform.
Thirdly, games, games, games. Skipping major Japanese titles that NoA and western publishers doubted the financial viability of worked in the past, but with the horrible state of western support, it doesn't cut it anymore. I'd wager that the huge gaps in the 3DS schedule in the west are seriously hurting its perception. Nintendo's first party heavy hitters can only carry the system so far. Ramping up localization efforts is the only way to ensure the system has a steady steam of new games. Even if some of these releases are turbo bombs, it would be a worthwhile investment for the system because it would be clear evidence that Nintendo are constantly working behind the scenes to ensure 3DS owners have something to play. With Nintendo now introducing DD for retail titles, as well as a relatively risk free means of selling niche games at retail in the form of game download cards, they now have no excuse not to start bringing over all the major Japanese games to America and Europe. I think even something as niche as Hatsune Miku would be profitable with a well priced, DD exclusive, quick and dirty text translated release.
For the future, I think Nintendo need to try a lot harder with the unique selling point of their next handheld. 3D, a purely visual enhancement, clearly wasn't good enough. They need something so unique that many in the mass audience will be willing to pay to play the system in addition to their smartphones.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
I agree that "college guy" is a bad term, which is why I put in in quotes. But I also don't think it's realistic to call it the US mainstream either. The AAA market is a big market, but it's not a lucrative market.
The Vita has supported those markets though. It's got Unit 13, which was a yawn at best. It's got Wipeout, some fighting stuff, all kind of favorites from the console brands. And also part of my point is that the AAA market likes to hype itself up without any real substance (WHAT COLOR IS MASTER CHIEF'S ARMOR?) so even if the Vita didn't have anything, you'd still see people interested in it and then interest decline as the games didn't come out that they wanted. And yet, there was nothing. Zero. Zip. Even after Sony started promotion.
The market that Nintendo is going after are the 90 million people who bought a Wii, or the 150 million people who bought a DS, or the fraction of the hojillion people who bought an iDevice and discovered that they like gaming and want to play something a bit meatier. The thirty million people who bought Mario Kart Wii. Even if they get a fraction of that market, it's still better than fighting with THQ over COD scraps.
I don't see the 3DS doing as well as Japan in any other region unless lightning strikes again, which it won't.
Just pointing out that it will still be around even if it's declining, because Japan will keep it alive. That's why the market still gets attention and why it's "difficult [...] for people/companies to grasp."
This really is the only thing that will turn it around. Well not NoA since they are disaster but the localizing of more games in general needs to take place. More worldwide launches would helps as well. Look at the games available in Japan or coming out soon and compare that to the rest of the other markets the 3DS is sold in. Japanese games are pretty much the bulk if not entirely of the software on the system with some limited exceptions from smaller developers on the eShop yet they are always Japan first and only until it's decided they'll be sold in other countries. That could take months though. The constant lag is the issue and until that's fixed sales aren't going to pick up outside of Japan. Certainly won't surpass it. Games have always been the issue and always will be.
aliencowz7
Member
Yeah my main point wasn't that its the best fit for 3ds or nintendo, Just that to reach a figure like 3X as much sales as japan, I cant see any way but getting that market as well as the ones from Wii and DS. Something like unit 13 isn't quite what I would count since it has no established fan base or anything. Wipeout I don't think quite fits the market im thinking of and fighting games aren't the best fit either.
Wii and DS may have been huge sellers here, but I don't think it outsold japan by 3X either. I could be wrong on that though and either way I think it would be in nintendos best interest to get some stuff like Assassins creed or various other multiplatform games on there as it can't really hurt.
Takamura-San
Member
Pass me that joint man.
I don't know. I'm not even sure that the Wii-U is going to make a dent... less so 3x the success.
nintendors
Member
have celebrities walk around in the "Hollywood Scene" carrying 3DSes
I'M DEAD SERIOUS
3x is ridiculously ambitious in today's Western market, but they will no doubt achieve much greater success as more games begin streaming in. I don't know how much of an impact Theatrhythm and KH3D will have here (probably not a lot), but I fully expect NSMB2 to light up the charts, and if Oni Training follows close behind, things could open up greatly for them.
Probably will never reach close to DS levels, but they'll be satisfied.
Probably will never reach close to DS levels, but they'll be satisfied.
For one thing, their retro games in the store are priced too high. When I can get GTA3 on iphone, that had a development team work on porting it to ios and working out touch controls for $1-3, yet they want me to repay like $5 for the Mario NES ROM that I have bought many times before that needed ZERO development effort or control changes? $3-4 for black and white Gameboy games?
If they flooded the online market with $1-2 NES, SNES, GB, GBC, GBA games, people would buy. But not at $3-6 per game. They could flood the market with DS games as well. At $1, I'm willing to bet they would have 10x the number of purchases for Super Mario Bros than they do at $5. 10x$1 is greater than 1x$5.
I don't have to carry cartridges around with my iphone. That is where they need to head. Give me "app games" that I can launch from my main screen priced to compete with the iphone and rid my pocket of these tiny plastic squares.
This isn't content they even have to work on. They already have the games made. Just release them to rebuy.
If they flooded the online market with $1-2 NES, SNES, GB, GBC, GBA games, people would buy. But not at $3-6 per game. They could flood the market with DS games as well. At $1, I'm willing to bet they would have 10x the number of purchases for Super Mario Bros than they do at $5. 10x$1 is greater than 1x$5.
I don't have to carry cartridges around with my iphone. That is where they need to head. Give me "app games" that I can launch from my main screen priced to compete with the iphone and rid my pocket of these tiny plastic squares.
This isn't content they even have to work on. They already have the games made. Just release them to rebuy.
I think the comparison is a bit unfair. In Japan, 3DS has Monster Hunter 3G which is the "king maker" for that territory. Without it, there's no way they'd have the numbers they've got in Japan.
In North America, that "king maker" content doesn't exist in the portable space (though Mario helps a lot). They either need to find something that moves the needle in NA the way Mon Hun does in Japan (which is no small feat), or it's and apples and oranges comparison.
In North America, that "king maker" content doesn't exist in the portable space (though Mario helps a lot). They either need to find something that moves the needle in NA the way Mon Hun does in Japan (which is no small feat), or it's and apples and oranges comparison.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Release something besides the same old Mario games. Want to expand the audience? Make something new.
This is a prime example of my previous post about pricing. I bought Shining Force on iphone/ipad for $1...playable on both machines. Nintendo would charge exactly how much for Shining Force on 3DS with their current pricing scheme?
$4? $7? Could I then play it on my Wii with that same original purchase?
Nintendo needs to recreate the same pandemonium that the ds lite + brain training and nintendogs created. Problem is those mass appealing types of games are now found in mobile phones (which wasn't the case 5 years ago) they come in the form of words with friends and draw something.
The great thing is my 8 year old thinks the same way. He got a 3DS for his birthday a month ago and he still spends all his time playing on his Touch. From the POV of this parent, dedicated handheld gaming is 15 shades of dead. And this was a kid who went into apocalyptic rage last summer when his 1 1/2 year old cousin shotputted his DSi into the lake.
People want all in one devices, and kids are no different. Little dude can use iMessage to text his parents, play cheap games that he can much more easily afford than $40 Mario, YouTube, Netflix, Cable TV (via Vulkano), art apps, Pandora, the family's iTunes stuff... I guess it's no huge shock that the DS lost its luster.
Release a 3DS 'Lite' already. I for one am holding off on purchasing a 3DS because of this prospect.
More games! There is only one game out right now that I want and it's Ocarina of Time 3D. It'll be a lot harder to resist the temptation of buying a 3DS when Animal Crossing, Bravely Default, Etrian Odyssey IV, Monster Hunter 4 and NSMB2 come out.
More games! There is only one game out right now that I want and it's Ocarina of Time 3D. It'll be a lot harder to resist the temptation of buying a 3DS when Animal Crossing, Bravely Default, Etrian Odyssey IV, Monster Hunter 4 and NSMB2 come out.
Like I said, I just think the "fishing for game cartridges to insert into your handheld" is what died with the smart phones. 16-32GB filled with as many games as you can fit on there instead of 15 tiny plastic squares in my pocket to fish through to load the game I want. It's cumbersome and we have evolved past it now.
If I could take my 3DS without having to worry about also the pocket full of games, I would be a happy man. Instead I just end up fiddling around with the one device I always have in my pocket, my iPhone. (I own a 3DS and many games, so I'm not shitting on the system, but I think the days of portable hard games needs to be over in order to compete with the new daddies on the block, iOS/Android.)
The DS is the best selling US console of all time. So either you dont need adults to have a successful handheld in the US, making your comment stupid. Or you can very well actually sell handhelds to adults in the US, which ALSO makes your comment stupid.
Your post is stupid.
They really need to step up their localization efforts.
They should try getting near simultaneous launches for their games, and definitely don't just leave games to be Japan-only.
But of course, NoA will continue to do that.
But then again, I guess they are getting better with Pokemon Conquest and Pokemon Black 2/White 2.
They should try getting near simultaneous launches for their games, and definitely don't just leave games to be Japan-only.
But of course, NoA will continue to do that.
But then again, I guess they are getting better with Pokemon Conquest and Pokemon Black 2/White 2.
They've been doing that non-stop. Doesn't work.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
They should really try to push digital titles more, allow for more IOS/Android style games and apps on the 3DS for low prices. Of course, this means the 3DS store needs a good interface for this, but I assume it can be done. Not to imply this would make things magically better, but if 3DS could get an Angry Birds game that is a digital release for a low price I think it would get people talking. If the 3ds becomes an easy platform to put small games out on I think people would bite, especially if those games utilized the dual screens and 3D.
Otherwise, they just need to do some solid marketing, and get some more good games out on the system. Also, find a way to make all of the systems features more relevant, and let people know about them.
Otherwise, they just need to do some solid marketing, and get some more good games out on the system. Also, find a way to make all of the systems features more relevant, and let people know about them.
I don't know if they completely lost the youth market but 9/10 kids I know rather play with the itouch/iphone/ipad than a ds/3ds.
I seen the shift in family reunions, children of my friends. Heck I think I play my nieces' DS more than they do. (I play it when I'm visiting and every time its at the same place where I put it and with the same game in there). Sees them play with the idevices all the time.
I seen the shift in family reunions, children of my friends. Heck I think I play my nieces' DS more than they do. (I play it when I'm visiting and every time its at the same place where I put it and with the same game in there). Sees them play with the idevices all the time.
I really don't think dual analogs are even close to the primary issue here.