[macuser1of5]

It's ridiculous. I hate that. When I first came here it was pricey, but you had choices. Now it's insane and no choices. And that Someday I will be a northern Californian.

Having spent a year in that pocket of CA, I really dug SLO and the pismo beach area. maybe retire there heh.

but atra SEA. you know it in your heart to be true.

[h1nch]

Bay Area is expensive to live in but you could probably room somewhere or live outside of the city and commute in. Pluses include: Being a foodie (hit up Berkeley too) You have the ocean, forest, mountains, wine country all within a couple hours. Some of the mildest weather anywhere. Diverse. Pretty open minded. Downside: Rent and such is damn high. Earthquakes. What kind of music are you into atra?

I just came back from a week in the Bay Area and I loved it. It is extremely expensive though, and it would be such a harsh lifestyle adjustment that I'd probably be better off at least spending a few yrs in Austin first.

Oh, don't get it twisted I fucking LOVE Austin. I'd never move... but living in a city where EVERYONE has a college degree and EVERYONE is crazy talented that also happens to be somewhat expensive compared to the average wage is tough. I only mean that Seattle felt more "complete" where as Austin feels like it's "in transition" OR something. I should note that like... 25% of people I know in Austin are basically from San Fran, Seattle, Portland or NY, and to them it's super cheap... but boy are they frustrated by how spread out things are and how awful our public transit is... WHY THE FUCK DID WE BUILD THAT TRAIN AND NOT HAVE IT GO FROM THE AIRPORT TO DOWNTOWN!!!?? Also, I miss the free Dillo Trolleys we used to have.

Heh I hear ya. I love Austin everytime I visit. If I moved there I'd want to live near somewhere cool like SoCo or Hyde Park, but I'd need to find a place nice without being terribly expensive. I wouldn't mind a suburban setting if it was close enough to the best parts of Austin.

[UrokeJoe]

My condolences.

Just ended. brutal. couldn't recommend, but I did identify with some of it. great soundtrack.

[macuser1of5]

Minneapolis-St. Paul Pros- Fantastic public transportation Some great urban planning and architecture, including an amazing downtown area in Minneapolis The area is generally known as a great area for culture and the arts in the country. Hot summers and cold winters Reasonable living expenses Relatively liberal and reasonable population Cons- Really fucking cold winters Anyone got anything else?

the really really cold winters up here are like 20 cons :p great city though.

[Canuck76]

Minneapolis-St. Paul Pros- Fantastic public transportation Some great urban planning and architecture, including an amazing downtown area in Minneapolis The area is generally known as a great area for culture and the arts Hot summers and cold winters Reasonable living expenses Relatively liberal and reasonable population Cons- Really fucking cold winters Anyone got anything else?

It's nicknamed Murderapolis for a reason.

Actually it's a pretty cool city. Big population of Somalian/african immigrants, should be some good restaurants. All 4 sports there too. Probably best city in the midwest (barring chicago)

[Staccat0]

Heh I hear ya. I love Austin everytime I visit. If I moved there I'd want to live near somewhere cool like SoCo or Hyde Park, but I'd need to find a place nice without being terribly expensive. I wouldn't mind a suburban setting if it was close enough to the best parts of Austin.

I'm lucky enough to pay <$800 a month for a 2 bedroom place on S. 1st across the street from a Torchy's.
I really can't bitch.

[reilo]

People from Minnesota tend to move to Portland, anyhow.

[Zulithe]

SF cause that's the only thing I can comment on (and I'd love to live in Portland or Seattle as much as here, based on my knowledge of them. I really love this entire section of the usa, bay area and north of it)

Pros:
*No Wal-Mart in the city limits. Fuck Wal-Mart man, fuck em!
*Great city for foodies of all kinds, but especially if you like burritos. Ever eaten Chipotle? SF invented that shit. And no, South Park is full of it, I've never had the shits from a taqueria.
* If you like film we're a good place to be. Not only do we get a fair amount of films made here, but we have 1 of only 2 Sundance theaters in the nation. There are also plans to build an Alamo Dafthouse here, quite possibly the best theater chain in the world. We have a REAL full-size AMC IMAX. Seems like a lame thing to count as a 'pro'? Not for me it isn't!
*super diverse. huge asian (mostly chinese) population. we have the best chinatown outside of NYC. very gay friendly. our pride parade is easily the best :) if you are both gay and chinese... well you're just fucking set. Japantown is pretty amazing if you like japanese culture and food.
*Golden Gate Park. 20% larger than Central Park in NYC. It's big and there's a lot to do and see there. Plenty of concerts there, some free, throughout the year!

Cons:
*Hope you don't mind being asked for change every block, cause it'll actually happen twice per block.
*No Wal-Mart. Definite con if you're on a budget, gotta admit (we are getting a target at the newly redesigned Metreon though! Yay!) Ever been in a Walgreens? Well you will if you move to SF.
*expensive... obviously. 2K/mo rent is very typical for a modest, small and non-junky place to yourself. Below that and you have to shop around a lot and get lucky.
*Hope you don't want a tan cause the SF climate is very mild. You won't even be needing a pair of shorts. No, seriously, I mean it. Even on a fairly hot day... just don't wear shorts. The SF natives will laugh at you. Could be a pro or con depending on your style :)

too tired to think of more right now :)

[echoshifting]

Who is in Portland GAF besides Timedog?

Me...er, I'm drawing a blank. I know there are quite a few.

Bookmarking this thread to post more Portland pros when I have the time :) I will say I lived in Tacoma (worked in Seattle) for a couple years and Portland for close to twelve now, and I vastly prefer the latter. Will go into detail later.

[Staccat0]

* If you like film we're a good place to be. Not only do we get a fair amount of films made here, but we have 1 of only 2 Sundance theaters in the nation. There are also plans to build an Alamo Dafthouse here, quite possibly the best theater chain in the world. We have a REAL full-size AMC IMAX. Seems like a lame thing to count as a 'pro'? Not for me it isn't!

Just for the record, Alamo Drafthouses are an Austin THANG (we have 4 now?)
They are Asutin
I'm a little pissed other people will soon be getting them

[Persona7]

Move to a smaller city just outside of a major city.

[Devolution]

We have a REAL full-size AMC IMAX. Seems like a lame thing to count as a 'pro'? Not for me it isn't!

Forgot about this. I saw the Dark Knight and Inception on that screen. So awesome.

[Zulithe]

Just for the record, Alamo Drafthouses are an Austin THANG (we have 4 now?) They are Asutin I'm a little pissed other people will soon be getting them

Oh believe me I'm aware... and have been jealous for a long time. Can you believe how excited I was to hear we may get one here? It was like... such a far out notion that I never even dreamed about it happening. It's a miracle man!

[soco]

The biggest problem with the weather in Seattle isn't the weather itself. It's all the people it negatively affects that then affect you. People usually seem to be fine with it the first 2-3 years but then it starts dragging on them.

This year, though, has been uncharacteristically fantastic so far. last year it was shitty until July.

Also cap hill being cheap is arguable depends on what you expect in an apartment and your income. You can find active an active nightlife in several areas around the city.

The public transportation is decent for some areas, but terrible for others.

SIFF is the largest film festival in the US. It lasts almost three weeks with about 10 theatres playing stuff daily.

There's a lot of good food in Seattle as well, and many of the awesome restaurants participate in a few events every year where they offer special meals for awesome prices.

[Staccat0]

Oh believe me I'm aware... and have been jealous for a long time. Can you believe how excited I was to hear we may get one here? It was like... such a far out notion that I never even dreamed about it happening. It's a miracle man!

DIE

[SteveWinwood]

Canada. Become Canandian. Become awesome. But on a serious note, I'm hoping some people can chime in, because I'd really like to know more about Portland and Seattle.

I'd love to. Isn't it hard for American's to move up north and become citizens though?

Minneapolis-St. Paul Pros- Fantastic public transportation Some great urban planning and architecture, including an amazing downtown area in Minneapolis The area is generally known as a great area for culture and the arts Hot summers and cold winters Reasonable living expenses Relatively liberal and reasonable population Cons- Really fucking cold winters Anyone got anything else?

Isn't it still like the 3rd largest gang recruitment site?

And you didn't list the Mall of America! Camp Snoopy up in there (or whatever it is nowadays. Nickelodeon something or other).

[Sobriquet]

Austin, bro.

I left Austin almost 15 years ago. Still miss it. Currently in LA.

[Buckethead]

Austin, Texas.

It's where I plan on moving eventually.

[Battlezone]

The biggest problem with the weather in Seattle isn't the weather itself. It's all the people it negatively affects that then affect you. People usually seem to be fine with it the first 2-3 years but then it starts dragging on them. This year, though, has been uncharacteristically fantastic so far. last year it was shitty until July.

Come to Seattle, where it's grey nine months out of the year, and the summers are measured in not months, not weeks, not days, but minutes! People will tell you the summers are amazing, and they can be, just don't expect three days of it in a row.

Also, Seattleites are notoriously anti-social and socially awkward. Almost all of my friends are transplants-I only know a handful of natives, and I'm married to one. The overall attitude seems to be, "Have a nice day. Somewhere else." People here say, "We should get together sometime," the way people in other cities say, "goodbye". And the funny thing is, that same group of transplants who bitch about the "Seattle Freeze" when they moved here become a clique of friends, then do the same thing to newcomers. It's a nasty cycle.

It's not as expensive as it used to be, and the job market-especially for designers-is getting better. If you're looking for a job in the next couple of years, OP, I probably have some contacts I could share with you.

No, I don't love it here, and yes, the weather beats me down. But I make it work. I found out I had a Vitamin D deficiency last year, and in addition to light therapy and supplements, I make sure to get out of the city every few months during the winter to somewhere sunny. Being a freelancer, I can take a week here and there to go work in San Diego or whatever, then come back. It makes it somewhat bearable.

[Concept17]

^^ Friend of mine out in Seattle just found out he has a major VitD deficiency as well. :P

Moving out to Seattle later this year. Can't wait. Fell in love with the place when I first visited back in high school. Just something about it.

[outunderthestars]

The problem with Portland is that there are way more young people there looking for work than there is work. Find a job in a city you might enjoy, and then move there. Don't move to Portland and expect to find work....

[Bamelin]

Oh, don't get it twisted I fucking LOVE Austin. I'd never move... but living in a city where EVERYONE has a college degree and EVERYONE is crazy talented that also happens to be somewhat expensive compared to the average wage is tough. I only mean that Seattle felt more "complete" where as Austin feels like it's "in transition" OR something. I should note that like... 25% of people I know in Austin are basically from San Fran, Seattle, Portland or NY, and to them it's super cheap... but boy are they frustrated by how spread out things are and how awful our public transit is... WHY THE FUCK DID WE BUILD THAT TRAIN AND NOT HAVE IT GO FROM THE AIRPORT TO DOWNTOWN!!!?? Also, I miss the free Dillo Trolleys we used to have.

I visited Austin 2 years ago. Gorgeous city ... Stayed at Westin by a big mall (Galleria I think it was called). Also got to experience the bar scene which was a lot of fun. Food scene was awesome too. Really fresh stuff, meats and produce.

Here is what I didn't like :

A "Short drive" to normal people means 5 - 10 minutes MAX. In Austin a "Short drive" means 45 min - 1 hour.

Traffic in Austin was insane. And by insane I mean people are fucking aggressive drivers ... God help you if you are used to jaywalking.

Austin also had freeways everywhere. Id never been to a downtown core that required taking a 20 minute highway ride to get to another part of the downtown core before.

[cdyhybrid]

Only read the OP but I want to state right away that as bad as Seattle drivers are, Portland drivers are worse.

Edit: adding on as I read

-the rain isn't as bad as the reputation, but you need to be able to go long periods without any sun.

[WinoMcCougarstein]

Who is in Portland GAF besides Timedog?

Me. I love the city and this part of the country but Portlanders act like self entitled little shits. Portlandia really hits the nail on the head in showing how pathetic this town has become.

Only read the OP but I want to state right away that as bad as Seattle drivers are, Portland drivers are worse. Edit: adding on as I read -the rain isn't as bad as the reputation, but you need to be able to go long periods without any sun.

As a claims adjuster I can indeed confirm Portland drivers are horrendous. Almost as bad as the bicyclists around here.

[Lissar]

I only live within Oregon (Eugene) not Portland, but I can help out some.

PROs: Like to read? Powells Books! (Though recently they've gotten more expensive/tourist than I like.) Huge used book store.

CONs: Ridiculously white town in comparison to other cities of a similar size. So if you want a LOT of diversity, it's probably not the best place to live.

For all of the northwest: It's beautiful here. You don't have to go too far outside of the city and you're already in forests and mountains with waterfalls and whatnot.

[parrotbeak]

Portland con: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.f...87e0b1094f4066

[Xelinis]

San Francisco

PROS:
- Interesting and gorgeous city
- Lots of night-life
- Great food

CONS:
- Finding an apartment right now is like Battle Royale.

[Dead Man]

I only live within Oregon (Eugene) not Portland, but I can help out some. PROs: Like to read? Powells Books! (Though recently they've gotten more expensive/tourist than I like.) Huge used book store. CONs: Ridiculously white town in comparison to other cities of a similar size. So if you want a LOT of diversity, it's probably not the best place to live. For all of the northwest: It's beautiful here. You don't have to go too far outside of the city and you're already in forests and mountains with waterfalls and whatnot.

Yep. If I ever manage to move back to the US, Oregon will probably be where I end up. My mums side of the family is from there, just a beautiful place.

[leroidys]

Seattle. Way, way more job opportunities for graphic design. Portland is cool but there is almost 0 work for young people.

[SolKane]

I visited Austin 2 years ago. Gorgeous city ... Stayed at Westin by a big mall (Galleria I think it was called). Also got to experience the bar scene which was a lot of fun. Food scene was awesome too. Really fresh stuff, meats and produce. Here is what I didn't like : A "Short drive" to normal people means 5 - 10 minutes MAX. In Austin a "Short drive" means 45 min - 1 hour. Traffic in Austin was insane. And by insane I mean people are fucking aggressive drivers ... God help you if you are used to jaywalking. Austin also had freeways everywhere. Id never been to a downtown core that required taking a 20 minute highway ride to get to another part of the downtown core before.

Austin traffic is a nightmare, since you have the worst drivers coupled with the most confusing highway system ever designed. One thing that amazes me about the highways is that you may know how to get somewhere from one direction, but if you're coming from the other direction may God have mercy on you.

[lush]

I want to move to the Pac NW too bro. Mainly for the bitches and the green though. I will do it for def at some point.

[Delightful Oonsk]

Seattle Pro - Music scene is huge.

Portland Pro - Incredibly clean city.

Also I don't know if you fly much but PDX in Portland is waaaay better than Seatac airport.

I don't know what it's worth, but as a Washington native I always felt like Portland was a nicer city. Maybe less to do than Seattle, but better living, transportation, that sort of thing.

[Lissar]

Seattle Pro - Music scene is huge. Portland Pro - Incredibly clean city. Also I don't know if you fly much but PDX in Portland is waaaay better than Seatac airport. I don't know what it's worth, but as a Washington native I always felt like Portland was a nicer city. Maybe less to do than Seattle, but better living, transportation, that sort of thing.

Oh god yes. I've flown into both multiple times, and I hate flying through Seattle. No one friendly seems to work there. D:

[WinoMcCougarstein]

I want to move to the Pac NW too bro. Mainly for the bitches and the green though. I will do it for def at some point.

Do you really refer to women as bitches? Also, why is Lloyd Christmas your avatar?

[macuser1of5]

Only read the OP but I want to state right away that as bad as Seattle drivers are, Portland drivers are worse.

I love sending my pdx friends the infamous Portland + hill + ice driving video from time to time :D

[Tenck]

Phoenix Arizona:

Pros: Blazing Hot weather.
Shortest Winter in history
Cheap Homes
Hispanics are being kicked out


Cons: Blazing Hot weather
Shortest Winter in history
Hispanics being kicked out.


Only one good thing about Arizona!

[teruterubozu]

-closest thing (in the US) to a “Canadian feeling” city

LOL!
Hope you're talking about Portland, Maine

[Draft]

The job situation in Portland is not great.

It is also the dirty teenage hobo capital of the world.

[Sarcasm]

NYC actually gets more rain (water) by volume. Just a little fact.

I stayed in all three states. WA was my fav than it was OR.

Entire west coast is an earthquake zone. Driving wise is the same.

[Lissar]

NYC actually gets more rain (water) by volume. Just a little fact. I stayed in all three states. WA was my fav than it was OR. Entire west coast is an earthquake zone. Driving wise is the same.

The thing about rain in the PNW is the fact that it's constant (at least throughout Sept-May) not that there is a whole lot. Other places get more dumped on them at once, for us it's just contant drizzle.

Oregon RARELY gets earthquakes. I've lived there my entire life except for the three years I lived in Japan and can count the number of times I've felt an earthquake on one hand.

[Sarcasm]

The thing about rain in the PNW is the fact that it's constant (at least throughout Sept-May) not that there is a whole lot. Other places get more dumped on them at once, for us it's just contant drizzle. Oregon RARELY gets earthquakes. I've lived there my entire life except for the three years I lived in Japan and can count the number of times I've felt an earthquake on one hand.

I grew mostly up in WA. I think I was only there for two EQs.

I honestly really miss the easy access to the ocean and nice mountains.

[Arcteryx]

Who is in Portland GAF besides Timedog?

mememememe/Eugene GAF


I've lived in both, although I was pretty young when I lived in Seattle(8), but both are awesome cities.

Portland definitely has the feel of a "smaller" scale Seattle(at least to me), which in many ways I like. On the other hand, it also feels like it isn't quite "established" yet, almost like the younger sibling.

If you have the opportunity to check them both out, go for it. But if not, you honestly couldn't go wrong with either one, especially for someone just starting out after college.


As for the Vitamin D thing, I've been tired with that for the past couple months too.

[Lissar]

I grew mostly up in WA. I think I was only there for two EQs. I honestly really miss the easy access to the ocean and nice mountains.

It's a great thing about this area that we have so much variety in scenery to visit. A lot of people say it's boring, but I guess it just depends on the things you like to do! From the valley it only takes like an hour to get to either the ocean or the mountains. Go a bit further and there is even desert.

[C4Lukins]

As a Texan, I would say Portland.

Average conversation with someone from Seattle.

Where are you from?
Texas. Austin.
Oh so you are an ass hole.
What?

Average conversation with someone from Portland.

Where are you from?
Texas. Austin.
Do you guys ride horses?
Sometimes, but we use vehicles most of the time.
Sounds cool, would you like to go have a beer or smoke a joint?
Sounds like fun.

Yeah Portland. Go there.

[Bamelin]

Portland con: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.f...87e0b1094f4066

Why oh why did I have to read that and follow up with google research? Will be having nightmares tonight :(

[Atramental]

get a job 1st

That's the plan but I just want to see which city has more job prospects for my line of work.

What kind of music are you into atra?

Various types of electronic music.

It's not as expensive as it used to be, and the job market-especially for designers-is getting better. If you're looking for a job in the next couple of years, OP, I probably have some contacts I could share with you.

I'll shoot you a PM when I have a free moment later in the afternoon.

Naturally I'm going where the jobs are, so Seattle is the lead in that regard. Plus, my friend is a computer science major so Seattle would probably be a good city for him as well.

What has me a little bit concerned about Seattle are its anti-social citizens. I'm trying to become much more social and open to people but that's kind of hard to do if another person doesn't want to be social or open with me.

[Sarcasm]

That's the plan but I just want to see which city has more job prospects for my line of work. Various types of electronic music. I'll shoot you a PM when I have a free moment later in the afternoon. Naturally I'm going where the jobs are, so Seattle is the lead in that regard. Plus, my friend is a computer science major so Seattle would probably be a good city for him as well. What has me a little bit concerned about Seattle are its anti-social citizens. I'm trying to become much more social and open to people but that's kind of hard to do if another person doesn't want to be social or open with me.

We are only mean to Texans and Californians. Though its not that drastic.

[Bamelin]

That's the plan but I just want to see which city has more job prospects for my line of work. Various types of electronic music. I'll shoot you a PM when I have a free moment later in the afternoon. Naturally I'm going where the jobs are, so Seattle is the lead in that regard. Plus, my friend is a computer science major so Seattle would probably be a good city for him as well. What has me a little bit concerned about Seattle are its anti-social citizens. I'm trying to become much more social and open to people but that's kind of hard to do if another person doesn't want to be social or open with me.

Atra, go to Seattle. In the long run a bigger city is usually one with more opportunities when you have just graduated. Wherever you go make sure it has opportunities in terms of a career.

As a Canadian living in Toronto I'm lucky in that regard ... Toronto is ground zero for job opportunities in Canada. I suppose Vancouver and Calgary are close seconds ... But a house in Vancouver costs over a million dollars.

Which brings me to the second thing you need to look at: cost of living

Basically it's a balancing act of finding a city with lots of jobs that also has a cheap cost of living. If you can find a place with both you'll end up a lot happier in life Down the road.

[h1nch]

I'm lucky enough to pay <$800 a month for a 2 bedroom place on S. 1st across the street from a Torchy's. I really can't bitch.

Holy crap I would die from a heart attack if I lived across the street from Torchy's

[Future Trunks]

Who is in Portland GAF besides Timedog?

Future Trunks. Also, coincidentally, I'm a former Texan in Portland and agree with C4Lukins. :)

Also, I'm not sure if it was mentioned yet in the topic, but Portland is the largest Intel Corporation site (well, between Hillsboro & Aloha). It's also home to Nike, Columbia Sportwear, and Adidas (USA HQ). Plus, lots of other companies and annex locations (for companies like Toshiba) that revolve around those bigger name companies. So, I wouldn't say there's "no" jobs for young people...but the job situation is probably not as good for young people without tech or specific backgrounds of need in the area.

There's also a big microbrewery scene in the Portland area, if you're into beer (I'm not), and lots of wineries. Also from what I hear Portland has a big music scene too. Portland's like Austin, TX from what I've gathered....just more expensive.