[BigDug13]

No one ever responds to my posts when I make this point so I guess everyone disagrees with me:

Nintendo needs to reduce the price of their VC/eshop games in the face of similar ports being offered on competing devices at a fraction of the cost:

Example:
Genesis games are 800-900 points on 3DS, so if they ever release Shining Force or Sonic 2, they will cost around $8. On the iphone, I can purchase Shining Force for $1 and Sonic 2 for $3. Sonic CD is $5. I can purchase 3 old SEGA games on iOS for the price of a single premium Genesis title on the 3DS/Wii.

I bought A Bard's Tale, PS2 port, on iOS for $3 which includes the old PC versions of A Bard's Tale 1 and 2. I also bought GTA3 with PC-level graphics on iOS for $1.

Control issues aside, how can Nintendo justify their pricing on old games in the face of quality older titles being ported to iOS for cheaper? Keep in mind that on iOS, these games need development to create touch controls and to be ported to the hardware, while Nintendo is reselling ROMS running in an emulator with no real development required for 2-8x more $.

Am I the only one who sees this as a significant issue? Nintendo can get away with charging $6 for a GBC game when it's Link's Awakening, but I can't see any third party GBC games selling for $6 in the wake of a much cheaper alternative for old ports.

Shinobi Game Gear edition is $4 on 3DS, while the Genesis version of Shinobi III is $3 on iOS...a superior console game compared to the Game Gear edition.

Games on iOS also have sales and drop in price for special promotions. That never seems to happen to old titles in the eShop.

You catch impulse buyers at $1-3. You catch no one at $8 per SNES/Genesis era game unless it's a special game someone wants to rebuy.

And keep in mind that these are games that had to have work done to port them with new controls, etc. Zero work is needed for a system that already has emulation in place for various systems, so why so pricy?

[nincompoop]

If there was a way to control those games effectively on the iphone then the demand for them would be a lot higher and so the publishers would charge more money for them.

[BigDug13]

If there was a way to control those games effectively on the iphone then the demand for them would be a lot higher and so the publishers would charge more money for them.

Shining Force controls great for me. Considering the controls of GTA3 on PS2 weren't even that great, it also controls fairly well.

Your point is that there is less demand for these games due to the control scheme. My point is that there is zero demand for these ROM dumps for $5-8 on 3DS.

I have yet to download a single title onto mine because I have already bought these games before and $5 for the same Super Mario Bros that came with my NES for free back in the 80's seems steep to me. But $1 for Shining Force which is one of the Genesis' top classics on the device I always have in my pocket is a no brainer.

Maybe I'm spoiled by the pricing in the iOS App Store. I probably am. But so are millions of others. Nintendo has to adjust to the market. They have failed to do so.

Feel free to keep charging $40 on games that you spent a ton of time developing. I've got a pocket full of those games: OOT, SMB:3DS, Kid Icarus, Starfox, SSFIV, and Ridge Racer. But charging me 1/8 of that price I paid for a current gen game for a ROM dump of an 80's game? That's highway robbery.

The market has changed for reselling old titles. Services like Steam and GOG are offering older games on PC for a low cost. Companies are porting old classics to iOS and Android for a low cost. Nintendo is still pretending they're going to be able to repackage their old games over and over and keep charging a higher cost and in this new market, that just won't work. At least it won't work for titles Nintendo didn't develop. They can still get away with charging more for their first party titles, but I still feel like they're priced out of comfort range. I would be willing to buy a few titles if they were a few bucks cheaper. As it stands now, I do not wish to purchase anything in their eshop.

[Krev]

They need to get as many quality games on the eshop, including all past and future retail games. They should be working to get Wii's entire VC catalog on there as well. Put every game possible. Nintendo DS games. Market it as the ultimate portable gaming device, being able to play an enormous library of high quality games off of SDs. Make the eshop intuitive and addicting. Have the equivalent of Steam sales.

This would be very smart.
Nintendo's big focus on maximizing profitability leads them to overcharge for ROMs. They seem completely unaware that they would probably be MORE profitable in the long term if the system was seen as one where you could buy a ton of old Nintendo classics for a dollar or so a piece.
There's more to running a successful business than short term profit. NoA in particular seem very slow to realize this.

More than anything, Nintendo need new management in America that is sensitive to the demands of the western market.

[Thunder Monkey]

Ummm...

I honestly don't know what they can do. NSMB2 and Pokemon could help. But the handheld gaming market in America has drastically changed in the last few years. Mainly because phones have stolen gaming oriented handhelds one defining feature. Gaming on the go. They did it by being a metricfuckton cheaper in software. Yes, the vast majority of it is crap.

But all it takes is a Tetris, a Pokemon to dominate in that industry. I single those two out because they were at one time the prototypical handheld game. Pick up, play for a bit, and put away. They could be just as involved as the most EPIC of console game if you wanted to put in the effort, but they were designed for short bursts.

Our want of more in the way of technical proficiency, even in our handheld games... might just end up being the death of the dedicated handheld console. Though I will say and this is just the pure fanboy in me, but I really liked RE:Revelations. It is structured about as much like a handheld game as you'd expect a Resident Evil to be.

But still, much more involved than the average handheld gamer seems to expect. Apparently if they wanted consolized epics, they'd be playing console games.

So being perfectly honest? I have no idea where Sony or Nintendo go in the handheld arena. Especially in America. Next-gen GameBoy? Touchscreen and two triggers?

[Kirbyguy]

That's very true. If we could be more certain that most/all of Nintendo's games had assured, timely US releases, then it wouldn't be as big an issue. Sadly, NoA doesn't have a very good track record in that regard. Hopefully they can turn that around. Though that wouldn't help third party releases much. There are many niche games that have little to zero chance of coming over to the US, and it would be nice if we at least had the option to import and play without having to invest in another system.

Think the upcoming retail releases on eShop might help in this case?

[Hero]

It's possible, but it will be hard:

Hardware revision I don't expect this until next year since Nintendo is still taking a loss on the existing 3DS but a 3DS Lite or 3DS Pro with a better redesign incorporating the circle pad pro built in along with either a better screen and battery life would do extremely well.
Steady stream of titles NCL is smashing the ball out of the park in Japan because there's games coming out just about every week for the system that appeals to them, whether it be Hatsune Miku, the ninja boob fanservice game, Harvest Moon, etc. they've been able to get the important franchises like Mario Kart, Super Mario and Monster Hunter to sell the system but supplement that with a steady stream of secondary titles. We don't see that in the west. Following up on that..
Do whatever it takes to get third parties making gamesA handheld version of Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed and other titles in that vein may do well if tailored to do the handheld nature instead of being just watered down ports of console games like the PSP did. It's a shame that handhelds aren't taken as seriously in the west but if you don't change it now it'll just get harder.
Embrace the digital space Treat the eShop better. It took a while to get and they have been making improvements since then but they cannot let up. Get more demos of games on there. Advertise third party games. Do weekly specials on games. Put more stuff on the Virtual Console. It boggles my mind that Nintendo has the largest, most lucrative titles in gaming history at their disposal and they don't take advantage of it. I understand they want to space some titles out to let them reach better sales but the Wii got extremely barren halfway through its life and there are still key titles missing.
Make Nintendo network an experience This gen it was understandable missing the online boat but they cannot afford to drop the ball again. XBL and PSN have been getting better each year, offering more and more things like service and media apps, better quality, more functionality, etc. Nintendo accounts need to happen. If I buy Super Mario Bros on the Virtual Console on the Wii, there is absolutely no excuse to not allow me to download it to my 3DS or vice versa. Offer online chatting and parties. Achievements or trophies are almost a necessity but I think Nintendo could take them to the next level if they really tried.
Kill the DS This one is risky but it worked in Japan. Clearance out all the DS Lite/DSi/DSi XL's out there and stop stuffing the channel with them. The 3DS needs to be the only option out there. As 3DS software increases take all but the most lucrative DS titles off of shelves. The fact that Pokemon Black and White 2 is coming out on the DS is a mistake. Yeah, it can be played on the 3DS and more people have an instance of the DS, but how many sales would really be lost if it was 3DS only? I think any revenue lost here in sales of the software would be easily made up for with the sale of a 3DS system and you can definitely count on them getting more 3DS software in the future.

All in all, not any one of those particular things is going to be enough to turn them around but a combination of them will see elevated interest and sales for the 3DS in the west. At least, that's my take.

Shining Force controls great for me. Considering the controls of GTA3 on PS2 weren't even that great, it also controls fairly well. Your point is that there is less demand for these games due to the control scheme. My point is that there is zero demand for these ROM dumps for $5-8 on 3DS. I have yet to download a single title onto mine because I have already bought these games before and $5 for the same Super Mario Bros that came with my NES for free back in the 80's seems steep to me. But $1 for Shining Force which is one of the Genesis' top classics on the device I always have in my pocket is a no brainer. Maybe I'm spoiled by the pricing in the iOS App Store. I probably am. But so are millions of others. Nintendo has to adjust to the market. They have failed to do so. Feel free to keep charging $40 on games that you spent a ton of time developing. I've got a pocket full of those games: OOT, SMB:3DS, Kid Icarus, Starfox, SSFIV, and Ridge Racer. But charging me 1/8 of that price I paid for a current gen game for a ROM dump of an 80's game? That's highway robbery. The market has changed for reselling old titles. Services like Steam and GOG are offering older games on PC for a low cost. Companies are porting old classics to iOS and Android for a low cost. Nintendo is still pretending they're going to be able to repackage their old games over and over and keep charging a higher cost and in this new market, that just won't work.

Although I agree that the prices of Virtual Shop content could use a lower adjustment I don't think pricematching the iOS App Store is a good idea for the long term. This trains consumer that games are worth less than they are. You think Sega thinks Shining Force is only worth .99 cents? I doubt it but that's the type of market the iOS App Store is, a race to the bottom. Looking at a game like Super Mario Bros since you mentioned it, is 5 dollars on the eShop. As of right now that game has almost 17,000 ratings, which Nintendo only allows you to do once you clock in an hour of game time. Shining Force isn't in the same league of Mario so let's take Sonic for example. The original Sonic game on Genesis goes for 2.99 on the App Store, which really isn't that far off in terms of pricing. That game has only 2232 ratings. This is not an accurate measurement by all means but I do think it helps to give us a general idea of the different markets here.

[cw_sasuke]

Thread title is irritating, why would they expect 3x Japanese sales when this wasnt the even the case with the DS or other Nintendo handhelds. All Iwata is implying is that there are still more ways to improve the 3DS performance in western markets, where the Japanese market already embraced the system.

[Gunloc]

Think the upcoming retail releases on eShop might help in this case?

It's a step in the right direction, though it all depends on what will be made available. I'm personally a fan of physical media but if Nintendo is more open to giving their customers more choices, then I'm hoping it will lead to more variety in their offerings.

And if they use the service to release games that they otherwise wouldn't of released in-store, then at least the US consumers have a chance to experience the content.

The fact that there are fully translated games like Another Code R, Last Window, Day of Disaster, etc. that haven't been brought to America is pretty ridiculous IMO. If they make titles like those available through the eShop, then I think players will see that NoA is striving to be more accessible with their releases. But they have a lot to prove in that regard.

[Hero]

It's a step in the right direction, though it all depends on what will be made available. I'm personally a fan of physical media but if Nintendo is more open to giving their customers more choices, then I'm hoping it will lead to more variety in their offerings. And if they use the service to release games that they otherwise wouldn't of released in-store, then at least the US consumers have a chance to experience the content. The fact that there are fully translated games like Another Code R, Last Window, Day of Disaster, etc. that haven't been brought to America is pretty ridiculous IMO. If they make titles like those available through the eShop, then I think players will see that NoA is striving to be more accessible with their releases. But they have a lot to prove in that regard.

I really hope Nintendo of America comes out at E3 and says that launch titles for the Wii U eShop will be the titles we missed out like some of the ones you mentioned. I think it would be a good start to show off their service and garner some goodwill considering the whole Xenoblade/Last Story/Pandora fiasco.

[Allan Holdsworth]

I don't think a significant amount of people buy a 3DS for e-shop/VC games anyway. Those are just complementary once you already got the system.

There's no way they will reach those kind of sales because the release line-up is much stronger in Japan, and many of those games wouldn't sell that well in the west, if they are even localized.

Not to mention many people see the 3DS as just another DS revision.

[RawPower]

What games did we miss out on in the US so far? I haven't been keeping up. If the localization record is as bad as the posts in this thread indicate, then yeah...that needs to change NOW.

[ShinUltramanJ]

Maybe get some third party games that appeal to a wider western audiences? A solid Call of Duty or Mass Effect would be bigger in the West than shit like Spirit Camera.

[RawPower]

Basically, NOA needs new management. Relative to NCL, it just feels like they don't care at all about anything except short term profits. I know that profit is the end goal of any company, but NOA almost makes stinginess an art form.

[Mpl90]

Certainly, 3DS here also needs more evergreens: the two Mario titles are already starting to be like that, but they need to maintain them selling in this way, even more if possible. They also said they want Nintendogs and Ocarina of Time 3D to sell more and more, so they'll promote them again...and they want to make Kid Icarus: Uprising a strong seller.
And it seems that we'll have a pretty strong first party lineup, with many great releases: they don't seem to want to lose time anymore, the improvement of Western situation is their focus.

About third party overseas support, it seems the platform is going to see a clear improvement in next months, as said earlier

Looking at the overseas market, the software lineup is becoming rich as we introduced on Nintendo Direct in Europe. New titles will be announced at E3 furthermore. As I mentioned in the Corporate Management Policy Briefing in January … You will strongly feel the changes in the thoughts of third-party software developers, overseas developers in particular, for the better.

I'm pretty curious about this. I mean, Epic Mickey is a good start, considering its uniqueness compared to the home console one ( it hasn't even the "2" in the title ), but I can't imagine what else, especially since there should be "strong changes", as said by Iwata himself. I remember reading there was some speculation here on GAF about Assassin's Creed ( not Lost Legacy, a new one, linked to AC3 on Wii U ), a strong one, but I can't find it... however, I want to see with my eyes the Western support which it's apparently coming.

Policies for retail/DD releases are good, and NSMB2 is the biggest title to open this "new era" with. So, they're doing / will do improvements. But the lack of any talk about reducing retail pricing...still, it's a problem of the market as a whole, unfortunately.

[Somnid]

Basically, NOA needs new management. Relative to NCL, it just feels like they don't care at all about anything except short term profits. I know that profit is the end goal of any company, but NOA almost makes stinginess an art form.

NOA is mostly concerned with evergreens. Pretty much all the display of dislike for NOA stem for titles like: Xenoblade, Fatal Frame, Disaster Day of Crisis, Zangeki no Reginliev, Fire Emblem: Heros of Light and Shadow etc.

What all of these have in common is no long term sales potential. They will sell to a small audience at launch maybe rack up 100K if they're really lucky and that'll be that. To be concerned with short-term profit would be to dump everything they could as fast as they can unconcerned if they strangle a few titles which is the complete opposite of how NOA operates.

Realistically, NOA's release schedule of Japanese games has little to do with anything because none of that was going to sell in the first place. What would help though is if B-tier titles like the above were made in the West for Western audiences. They have done a small amount of this with Monster Games and the Excite franchise but they need a little more than that.

[NeoGohan]

Every nintendo portable has had one GTA.

i want my 3D GTA NOW

[awm8604]

I'm waiting for the inevitable redesign, and I'd imagine a lot of others are too. They've put themselves in a position where, even if they don't plan on redesigning the system, they'll be forced to because it's so expected it will generate a lot of sales from people like me.

[Torraz]

I'm waiting for the inevitable redesign, and I'd imagine a lot of others are too. They've put themselves in a position where, even if they don't plan on redesigning the system, they'll be forced to because it's so expected it will generate a lot of sales from people like me.

Same here. This was along with the region locking my reason for not buying a 3ds up until now. The region locking reason has declined because ghostlight has announced several atlus games and they have picked up the 3ds...

[Kirbyguy]

I'm waiting for the inevitable redesign, and I'd imagine a lot of others are too. They've put themselves in a position where, even if they don't plan on redesigning the system, they'll be forced to because it's so expected it will generate a lot of sales from people like me.

This will be a backup plan for when things really go down.

[RawPower]

NOA is mostly concerned with evergreens. Pretty much all the display of dislike for NOA stem for titles like: Xenoblade, Fatal Frame, Disaster Day of Crisis, Zangeki no Reginliev, Fire Emblem: Heros of Light and Shadow etc. What all of these have in common is no long term sales potential. They will sell to a small audience at launch maybe rack up 100K if they're really lucky and that'll be that. To be concerned with short-term profit would be to dump everything they could as fast as they can unconcerned if they strangle a few titles which is the complete opposite of how NOA operates. Realistically, NOA's release schedule of Japanese games has little to do with anything because none of that was going to sell in the first place. What would help though is if B-tier titles like the above were made in the West for Western audiences. They have done a small amount of this with Monster Games and the Excite franchise but they need a little more than that.

All I meant was that they are extremely risk averse, and that's not a good strategy when you're a 1st party platform manufacturer. What you describe sounds pretty stingy to me.

[Krev]

NOA is mostly concerned with evergreens. Pretty much all the display of dislike for NOA stem for titles like: Xenoblade, Fatal Frame, Disaster Day of Crisis, Zangeki no Reginliev, Fire Emblem: Heros of Light and Shadow etc. What all of these have in common is no long term sales potential. They will sell to a small audience at launch maybe rack up 100K if they're really lucky and that'll be that. To be concerned with short-term profit would be to dump everything they could as fast as they can unconcerned if they strangle a few titles which is the complete opposite of how NOA operates. Realistically, NOA's release schedule of Japanese games has little to do with anything because none of that was going to sell in the first place. What would help though is if B-tier titles like the above were made in the West for Western audiences. They have done a small amount of this with Monster Games and the Excite franchise but they need a little more than that.

I don't think the evergreen only philosophy is healthy in the long term. Even if none of these games aren't going to be hugely successful and really push systems (and they obviously aren't), getting them out there is a show of care and dedication to the platform and its health. I think the cumulative effect of plugging the holes in the schedule and satisfying vocal minority hardcore gamers would be very good for the health of the platform.
NoA are still hoping to make a fortune off casual gamers like they did with the DS, but that's not going to happen after the meteoric rise of the iOS. The game has changed. It's all about keeping the core on side.

Obviously B-tier western games are an important step as well, but it's important that people don't feel they're being screwed out of major releases for the platform, which something like Fire Emblem definitely is. I recall an interview with NCL staff (it might have been an Iwata Asks) where they mentioned that a lot of the traditional games they continue to work on don't sell in huge numbers when compared to their casual hits and their biggest blockbusters, but they still felt it was important that Nintendo was out there making those games. I wish a bit more of this philosophy would rub off on NoA.

All I meant was that they are extremely risk averse, and that's not a good strategy when you're a 1st party platform manufacturer. What you describe sounds pretty stingy to me.

Yep.

[Somnid]

All I meant was that they are extremely risk averse, and that's not a good strategy when you're a 1st party platform manufacturer. What you describe sounds pretty stingy to me.

Stingy is true and from a business sense it's not a problem. They aren't actually that risk adverse though, they don't want to bother with low yield "core" games but they've taken huge risks with the Mii franchise, Brain Training and Layton it's just we don't think of them as risks because retrospectively they were hugely profitable.

[Krev]

Stingy is true and from a business sense it's not a problem. They aren't actually that risk adverse though, they don't want to bother with low yield "core" games but they've taken huge risks with the Mii franchise, Brain Training and Layton it's just we don't think of them as risks because retrospectively they were hugely profitable.

I imagine stuff like the Mii games and Brain Training would have been mandated by NCL.
I question whether the stingy approach is actually a good strategy for the platform. The platform holder should be willing to make some losses here and there if it goes towards increasing the long-term health of the platform and the satisfaction of the userbase. I would also say that using their DS and Wii 'evergreen and AAA' only approach on 3DS is immensely foolish, given the difference between the markets for these platforms.

[Apdiddy]

I have a few ideas that are very similar to other suggestions:

1) Release almost the entire DS and GBA library on eShop and do more with the eShop. Nintendo should take a page out of Sony's book with this and Valve's as well. Run special promotions/sales where the games are bundled (i.e. buy Super Mario Bros. 1 - 3 & the GB Super Mario Land for $5, etc.).

2) Discontinue the DS and DSi and eliminate/reduce the number of DS titles at retail. People aren't buying the 3DS because apparently they think the 3DS carts will work with the DS. This is after more than a year from the 3DS' release. I've spoken to many retail store people who have all said the same thing -- other than the more hardcore gamers, not many people are even aware that Nintendo's DS and 3DS are two separate things. I don't know if that's the fault of Nintendo's marketing per se or something else.

3) Don't worry about attracting the 'casual market' by reinventing the wheel. Sure, having games like Brain Age 3D would be great and would get that audience. I would say most of the people that bought DS'es in droves are now playing games on their iPhones for a much cheaper price. Maybe Nintendo could approach Rovio and say "make Angry Birds Mario." Or even approach some of the more successful iOS developers/publishers and say, "Here's some money, make something that you couldn't make on the iPhone."

[Effect]

NoA actions also seems to undermine NCL's statements regarding attracting and maintain core gamers as well. The focus on evergreen titles and ones that sell big with casual gamers actually isn't going to help when it comes to the Wii U. It's as if NCL knows full well they can't lean on those they brought in with the Wii and DS. Sure some will stay but not all of them. So you have to give attention to those considered core gamers.

Which makes me think that the releases of Xenoblade, The Last Story and Pandora's Tower if true are because they were mandated by NCL. I don't believe at all that NoA wanted to, was willing, or even capable (this is the one that really worries me) of releasing these titles. Which is why Xseed and GameStop are in the picture.

[Help Me!]

1) Release almost the entire DS and GBA library on eShop and do more with the eShop. Nintendo should take a page out of Sony's book with this and Valve's as well. Run special promotions/sales where the games are bundled (i.e. buy Super Mario Bros. 1 - 3 & the GB Super Mario Land for $5, etc.).

This is a great idea, but people are still buying at $5 a pop...guilty...so I don't think this will ever happen. What are the NES/GB/GBA sales figures for the eShop/Virtual Console? If they are still strong, Nintendo will have no desire to bundle games.

Maybe Nintendo could approach Rovio and say "make Angry Birds Mario."

My god, man. What have you done?

[M3d10n]

- Fire and replace everyone at charge in NOA. Seriously, their "no games" stance is nearing Sega Saturn levels.

- The casual adults are probably forever lost to phones and tablets. Focus heavily on gamers... and kids. Yes, kids might love phones too, but they don't rationalize like adults do ("why buy another portable device?"). If there is a hot game on they cannot get on their phones (like Pokemon), they won't shut up about it until they get it.

- Bring some F2P MMOs to the 3DS (all the infrastructure is already there for it). Bonus points if they're colorful and kid-friendly.

- Spend more in marketing. There's no way around this.

- Get Zynga on board.

- Youtube 3D app, for both watching and uploading.

[aeolist]

Free to play and more downloadable games would help

[Linkhero1]

I have a few ideas that are very similar to other suggestions: 1) Release almost the entire DS and GBA library on eShop and do more with the eShop. Nintendo should take a page out of Sony's book with this and Valve's as well. Run special promotions/sales where the games are bundled (i.e. buy Super Mario Bros. 1 - 3 & the GB Super Mario Land for $5, etc.). 2) Discontinue the DS and DSi and eliminate/reduce the number of DS titles at retail. People aren't buying the 3DS because apparently they think the 3DS carts will work with the DS. This is after more than a year from the 3DS' release. I've spoken to many retail store people who have all said the same thing -- other than the more hardcore gamers, not many people are even aware that Nintendo's DS and 3DS are two separate things. I don't know if that's the fault of Nintendo's marketing per se or something else. 3) Don't worry about attracting the 'casual market' by reinventing the wheel. Sure, having games like Brain Age 3D would be great and would get that audience. I would say most of the people that bought DS'es in droves are now playing games on their iPhones for a much cheaper price. Maybe Nintendo could approach Rovio and say "make Angry Birds Mario." Or even approach some of the more successful iOS developers/publishers and say, "Here's some money, make something that you couldn't make on the iPhone."

1) They won't do it because they would rather have a library of content to flush out every once in a while when they have nothing to release. I find it more odd that they haven't been releasing at least a few a month though. If they release at once then they would only have the 3D classics and eShop games to rely on and we don't know if they'll always have those available. I'm thinking they'll release GB/GBA games when they dont have new content to flush out. I do agree with promotions and they definitely need to drop the price on some of the titles out now.

2) Agree with this except for discontinuing the DS/DSi. If they keep on selling then there's no need to discontinue them right away. I think the Pokemon games should have been 3DS only.

3) Agreed. They just need to release Animal Crossing and those AC only players will move from DS/Wii to the 3DS and I'm sure there's a lot of them.

[Somnid]

NoA actions also seems to undermine NCL's statements regarding attracting and maintain core gamers as well. The focus on evergreen titles and ones that sell big with casual gamers actually isn't going to help when it comes to the Wii U. It's as if NCL knows full well they can't lean on those they brought in with the Wii and DS. Sure some will stay but not all of them. So you have to give attention to those considered core gamers. Which makes me think that the releases of Xenoblade, The Last Story and Pandora's Tower if true are because they were mandated by NCL. I don't believe at all that NoA wanted to, was willing, or even capable (this is the one that really worries me) of releasing these titles. Which is why Xseed and GameStop are in the picture.

Unlikely. I think it was NOA needing something to release and NCL had nothing for them except Kikki Trick. They knew there was a lot of cheerleading for those games so they found inventive ways to appease fans while controlling losses. Remember that NCL was preventing Fatal Frame once NOA declined. NCL might push through a few things but those are typically obvious and release globally at the same time.

While NOA can do a better job for fans they have nothing to do with 3DS sales behind Japan (If people like iPhones and don't like Monster Hunter they can't help that). Even if they had released every game they declined Wii would be in the same shape because it is in every territory regardless. We can maybe make a marketing argument but even that's not very strong.

If you want 3DS to perform at the same ratio but social conditions are different you need to start targeting that region specifically with software that caters to those conditions. Release parity isn't the answer (even if it doesn't hurt).

[BigDug13]

It's possible, but it will be hard: Hardware revision I don't expect this until next year since Nintendo is still taking a loss on the existing 3DS but a 3DS Lite or 3DS Pro with a better redesign incorporating the circle pad pro built in along with either a better screen and battery life would do extremely well. Steady stream of titles NCL is smashing the ball out of the park in Japan because there's games coming out just about every week for the system that appeals to them, whether it be Hatsune Miku, the ninja boob fanservice game, Harvest Moon, etc. they've been able to get the important franchises like Mario Kart, Super Mario and Monster Hunter to sell the system but supplement that with a steady stream of secondary titles. We don't see that in the west. Following up on that.. Do whatever it takes to get third parties making gamesA handheld version of Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed and other titles in that vein may do well if tailored to do the handheld nature instead of being just watered down ports of console games like the PSP did. It's a shame that handhelds aren't taken as seriously in the west but if you don't change it now it'll just get harder. Embrace the digital space Treat the eShop better. It took a while to get and they have been making improvements since then but they cannot let up. Get more demos of games on there. Advertise third party games. Do weekly specials on games. Put more stuff on the Virtual Console. It boggles my mind that Nintendo has the largest, most lucrative titles in gaming history at their disposal and they don't take advantage of it. I understand they want to space some titles out to let them reach better sales but the Wii got extremely barren halfway through its life and there are still key titles missing. Make Nintendo network an experience This gen it was understandable missing the online boat but they cannot afford to drop the ball again. XBL and PSN have been getting better each year, offering more and more things like service and media apps, better quality, more functionality, etc. Nintendo accounts need to happen. If I buy Super Mario Bros on the Virtual Console on the Wii, there is absolutely no excuse to not allow me to download it to my 3DS or vice versa. Offer online chatting and parties. Achievements or trophies are almost a necessity but I think Nintendo could take them to the next level if they really tried. Kill the DS This one is risky but it worked in Japan. Clearance out all the DS Lite/DSi/DSi XL's out there and stop stuffing the channel with them. The 3DS needs to be the only option out there. As 3DS software increases take all but the most lucrative DS titles off of shelves. The fact that Pokemon Black and White 2 is coming out on the DS is a mistake. Yeah, it can be played on the 3DS and more people have an instance of the DS, but how many sales would really be lost if it was 3DS only? I think any revenue lost here in sales of the software would be easily made up for with the sale of a 3DS system and you can definitely count on them getting more 3DS software in the future. All in all, not any one of those particular things is going to be enough to turn them around but a combination of them will see elevated interest and sales for the 3DS in the west. At least, that's my take. Although I agree that the prices of Virtual Shop content could use a lower adjustment I don't think pricematching the iOS App Store is a good idea for the long term. This trains consumer that games are worth less than they are. You think Sega thinks Shining Force is only worth .99 cents? I doubt it but that's the type of market the iOS App Store is, a race to the bottom. Looking at a game like Super Mario Bros since you mentioned it, is 5 dollars on the eShop. As of right now that game has almost 17,000 ratings, which Nintendo only allows you to do once you clock in an hour of game time. Shining Force isn't in the same league of Mario so let's take Sonic for example. The original Sonic game on Genesis goes for 2.99 on the App Store, which really isn't that far off in terms of pricing. That game has only 2232 ratings. This is not an accurate measurement by all means but I do think it helps to give us a general idea of the different markets here.

But again. You are talking about Mario for $5. But $5 is the price Nintendo has set in stone for Every NES title. But not every NES title is Mario. The problem I have is the "one size fits all per console type" pricing mentality. Super Mario Bros will be priced the same as a game like Deadly Towers, ranked the worst NES game of the entire catalogue. That's not how nostalgia should work. Every game from 1988 receives the same price, no matter the quality?

[Hero]

I think that's just the minimum amount they want to charge for NES games. There is variable pricing on Game Boy titles so far.

[BigDug13]

I think that's just the minimum amount they want to charge for NES games. There is variable pricing on Game Boy titles so far.

But don't you think minimum $5 on NES is too high in an environment where I can get the combination of Shining Force Genesis, Bards Tale PS2, Bard's tale 1&2 PC, and GTA3 for $5 total?

We are not talking about what price you think is fair. We are talking about what price makes the ESHOP competitive with the iOS App store. Like it or not, they are in direct competition with each other to showcase why their device warrants a purchase. And keep in mind, this is also a competition to showcase why you need 3DS in your pocket next to that phone you are forced to carry.

[Synth_floyd]

Reduce the price of the console. Reduce the price of the games. Redesign the console.

[RawPower]

Stingy is true and from a business sense it's not a problem. They aren't actually that risk adverse though, they don't want to bother with low yield "core" games but they've taken huge risks with the Mii franchise, Brain Training and Layton it's just we don't think of them as risks because retrospectively they were hugely profitable.

Eh. Their rotten attitude towards non-mass market gamers didn't really begin to surface until AFTER they were making big bank on those games you mentioned, and others of their ilk. Since then, they've been playing it safe to the point of rivaling Namco for the shittiest localization track record of this generation. They won't even bring out a triple AAA, critically acclaimed 2nd party RPG over without a shitstorm of bad PR (as well as some solid numbers from Europe) pressuring them into releasing it as a GameStop exclusive. Whereas in the Gamecube era, they brought us things like Baten Kaitos Origins, Odama, Animal Crossing (pretty risky for its time), and just about everything they released over in Japan.

Yeah, sorry this is a touchy subject. Haha.

[Gartooth]

I think it all comes down to software variety. In Japan there has been huge 3DS support with a variety of software to choose from.

Meanwhile in North America, no noteworthy titles have been released this year aside from Kid Icarus and Resident Evil.



I think the problem stems from:

1. Japanese titles never reaching western shores, or not quick enough.

Games likes Kingdom Hearts and Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 (yeah yeah DS games) have a large gap between their eastern and western releases.

In addition there are titles like Fire Emblem that we can't even say for sure if it will be coming to North America.



2. Western developers continue to develop games with western markets in mind.

So it shouldn't be hard to figure why they aren't jumping on the 3DS bandwagon, and instead choose to develop for IOS, Android, and other online marketplaces.

I think Nintendo needs to first cultivate an online marketplace by backing low cost indie games, and from there if they find success, the big western developers will join in.




Essentially what it comes down to, is that once again a Nintendo platform will supply only core Nintendo IP and not much else for overseas territories.

The 3DS may continue to succeed during holiday periods when the likes of Mario and Pokemon are released, but its not hard to see why it doesn't have legs to continue going all year round.

Long story short, 3DS needs more games and more reasons to buy instead of Mario + Mario Kart. I really think that a strong download space would help aside from the $40 retail titles.

[donny2112]

Thread title is irritating, why would they expect 3x Japanese sales when this wasnt the even the case with the DS or other Nintendo handhelds.

Because they don't. The thread title is misleading. It was explained on the first page, but Nirolak decided to keep the title the same since the concept of improving sales was effectively the same.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...1&postcount=38

All Iwata is implying is that there are still more ways to improve the 3DS performance in western markets, where the Japanese market already embraced the system.

Yes. Hopefully this'll light a fire under NOA.

[Captain Chaos]

Redesign the monstrosity and add a sim card.

[Eusis]

But don't you think minimum $5 on NES is too high in an environment where I can get the combination of Shining Force Genesis, Bards Tale PS2, Bard's tale 1&2 PC, and GTA3 for $5 total? We are not talking about what price you think is fair. We are talking about what price makes the ESHOP competitive with the iOS App store. Like it or not, they are in direct competition with each other to showcase why their device warrants a purchase. And keep in mind, this is also a competition to showcase why you need 3DS in your pocket next to that phone you are forced to carry.

It is possible cutting too low ends up being self destructive, but even if they won't budge from $5 on their biggest titles (and they're likely the ones that DESERVE those price points the most) they could at least start charging 2-4 for the many lower tier, crappier NES games.

2. Western developers continue to develop games with western markets in mind. So it shouldn't be hard to figure why they aren't jumping on the 3DS bandwagon, and instead choose to develop for IOS, Android, and other online marketplaces.

This has always been somewhat frustrating for me. Before iOS/Android most of them would be completely dismissive of handhelds, but now that THOSE are relevant they're eagerly jumping on! Maybe it'd help if hardware equivalent to the 3DS or Vita somehow managed to come out years earlier, though it may be more the distribution model and costs to publish that made iOS so much more appealing to them.

[Vane_MagicCity]

They need to put those ambassador games up for sale to everyone. They need to get a bunch of GBA games on there. They need to redesign the 3DS with a second analog stick. The sooner it becomes standard, the better. Example, think back to all those PS1 games that came out before analog and think about how every game used analog once it became the standard. To this day I wish analog had come out before FF7.

Nintendo is finally getting serious about DD but they need to stop being so secretive about what is coming. They also need to stop being so stingy. There are still some great SNES games that haven't made it to the VC. Lufia 1 and 2, Breath of Fire 1, Yoshi's Island, etc.. Those could be brought to the eShop as I am sure the 3DS would have no problem running them. Speaking of stingy, operation rainfall should not have been necessary, these things hurt Nintendo. They'll release a new Mario Party that no one cares about but JRPG's that people have been starved for have to be begged for.

Also, game sharing. Why can't I play Final Fantasy VI on the Wii and the 3DS? I can play all the PS1 RPG's I want on both the PSP and the PS3 and I can have them on both at the same time.

[James Sawyer Ford]

There's really nothing they can do. 3DS will never match the popularity of the DS in the west.

Handhelds are basically an afterthought in comparison to Iphones and iPads. That's where the vast majority of handheld gaming will be.

Companies like Nintendo and Sony need to embrace the new handheld landscape rather than trying to defend against it with their own hardware. That's just a losing proposition.

[jj350]

What works in Japan usually doesn't work in the US... we have different tastes in entertainment and that is all there is to it.

[GameplayWhore]

Maybe Nintendo could approach Rovio and say "make Angry Birds Mario." Or even approach some of the more successful iOS developers/publishers and say, "Here's some money, make something that you couldn't make on the iPhone."

Darnit people, for the last time, Angry Birdos.

Yeah, I know, it'd sell a tenth as much, but it's still a cooler name.

[GDGF]

Well, releasing more games in the west might help.

Yep. We shouldn't have to second guess whether a great looking Nintendo published 3DS import is coming over or not.

Hopefully with full games on DD this is about to change.

[charlequin]

If there was a way to control those games effectively on the iphone then the demand for them would be a lot higher and so the publishers would charge more money for them.

No, Nintendo just prices these products for a magical fairyland where home emulation doesn't exist and these games have some expectation of continued value forever (a choice that has resulted in poor performance of their VC products) while people selling their old games on iOS by and large price them to actually move in volume.

NOA is mostly concerned with evergreens.

Yes, you have correctly identified one of the stupid, short-sighted behaviors of NOA which they will need to change if they want 3DS to be a successful, high-selling system instead of an embarrassing footnote.

NoA actions also seems to undermine NCL's statements regarding attracting and maintain core gamers as well.

Yup, much like some of the other worst regional branches in gaming history, NOA have two fatal flaws: they think customers should come to them (rather than going out and aggressively courting them) and they don't actually think people want the products their parent company is making.

[Vane_MagicCity]

Yep. We shouldn't have to second guess whether a great looking Nintendo published 3DS import is coming over or not. Hopefully with full games on DD this is about to change.

Not if the Virtual Console is anything to go by. Doesn't Japan have alot more games than we (NA) do on the Wii VC?

[-Pyromaniac-]

My rage against NoA makes me unable to discuss this rationally, but it did kind of sound like Iwata was taking a passive aggressive swipe at em to step it up.

I've gotten the impression that NoA seems to think that they know what we want more than we know. Gaddamn reggie.

[Help Me!]

So: Iwata= Prez
Reggie=NoA Prez?
???=NoE Prez

Does each person only work within their specific geographic space? No input from Nintendo Japan? Why would NoE get 3DS NES Zelda before NoA?

[RPGCrazied]

Lower the price some more. I'd be more willing to bite at $129 or lower.