[Riposte]

It's not an attack, simply a statement. Societies have often been ruled by testosterone-fuelled man-children, and I think most students of history can agree with that. Also that has nothing to do with God of Wat.

It seems testosterone-fueled man-children = testosterone-fueled men for all intents and purposes.

[Kong Fisso]

So books and video games are basically the same medium, and interactivity means nothing. Got it. Edit: And I suppose people who play pen and paper role-playing games will be pleasantly surprised that they can have the exact same experience reading a fantasy novel. Edit: And I suppose all those game designers babbling about building a connection between the player and his avatar are off their rockers.

You're the one babbling, really.

I can't even tell if you're being serious or if this is one of those internet sarcasm things.

[get2sammyb]

Hang on -- 1UP sent a writer with absolutely zero familiarity with the God of War series to preview the latest game?

[MuseManMike]

Hang on -- 1UP sent a writer with absolutely zero familiarity with the God of War series to preview the latest game?

People are encouraging this. Read the first few pages.

[noodalls]

Today, I cut three people's eyes with scissors and then inserted needles to the back of their eyes.

I find GOW games distatefully excessive.

(If the above sounds farfetched, look up subtenon block on youtube.)

[Huff]

Hang on -- 1UP sent a writer with absolutely zero familiarity with the God of War series to preview the latest game?

No he was familiar with it. He went in already disliking the series. And purposely avoided playing 3

[Riposte]

Today, I cut three people's eyes with scissors and then inserted needles to the back of their eyes. I find GOW games distatefully excessive. (If the above sounds farfetched, look up subtenon block on youtube.)

Do you charge half price for cyclops?

[get2sammyb]

People are encouraging this. Read the first few pages.

I've just read them. I can understand that the drive for a new perspective, but it strikes me that a writer should always have minimum understanding of a product he is covering.

What if Sony Santa Monica had shown single-player and talked about the narrative? (Papy confirmed in the live stream yesterday that nobody knew they were showing multiplayer.) How would the writer have been accurately able to converse the setting and plot direction to his readers without any understanding of the franchise at all? How was the writer able to conduct a thorough interview with the development team without playing previous titles?

I'm not criticising the writer or publication here, it seems like a well put together piece and I understand the desire for new perspectives. But, I don't know... Surely sending a journalist who has a familiarity with the franchise makes much more sense?

No he was familiar with it. He went in already disliking the series. And purposely avoided playing 3

Well, that's not much better is it? If you've made up your mind before you even see something, how can you possibly be objective?

[Alx]

Your implication was that you deemed someone other than yourself unhealthy. Even using that label "sadistic" to refer to the title is an assertion of your position. A position difficult to defend with outside criteria.

Calling the game sadistic is probably the most objective statement that can be made here. Sadism is about enjoying hurting other people (or characters : Sade wrote his stories from his jail cell, he never went further than words scribbled on paper). It ranges from recreational spanking to torturing people.
As a matter of fact, most games have sadistic elements. When you throw an enemy off a cliff, shoot them in the ass or pull off for fun a longer than necessary combo, you're being sadistic. And most of it is culturally accepted. The discussion is not if GoW is sadistic, it's how far we allow ourselves to go into sadism.

The discussion of moral standards and Truths is better discussed in Off-Topic -- but I would not consider myself a relativist as I do believe scientific applications can provide insight to what would be deemed an "objective" moral value.

Eh, now that would need further explanations, because I can't see anything less objective than moral values.

I could play every pedophilia-based dating game, every baby-killing simulator -- yet neither of those titles would be indicative of who I am nor reflective of my traits or personality. (...)

So you really think you could say you enjoy playing pedophilia-based dating games without being labeled a pervert ?

[Refreshment.01]

I'm pretty much desensitized to this kind of violence in GOW, as it comes with the territory. But how did the 1up writer get such a different reaction to the violence than I did? He's played as many games as I've had, probably more. To hear him call it the best among "torture porn" makes me wince a bit. What I find most interesting is how a video game was able to elicit these kinds of emotions from the writer. He felt genuine empathy for the megaclops. Not a lot of videogames can draw those kinds of emotions, or at least, not two minute multiplayer clips. That's something, I guess.

It's just convenience. The author thought that the article would be more interesting if he pretended to be shocked at the level of violence in a God of War game. It's not necessarily really what he truly thinks.

And in your case chubigans it worked. Of all the GoW:A previews it was the one that stock the most with you.

[Fredrik]

One is FANTASY the other is REALITY. I don't see why that should be hard to understand? Do I have to tell you it is not OK to shoot people in the face in real life either? Once people start to believe that they need someone to step in and enforce real world morals into the fantasy world, it is the end of video games as we know it.

Oh I understand it completely. Question is, Do you? Explain to me why it's so odd to get disgusted by video game violence but perfectly normal to become emotional while watching a movie or reading a book. Both are fictional. Yet I nearly cried while watching Wall-E. Perfectly normal imo. And I definitely get disgusted by looking at gruesome video game violence, especially so if it's done in a way like the Modern Warfare airport scene and have realistic graphics.
Thing is ,the further video games goes toward realism, the harder it will be to keep ignoring the fact that what we're doing in some games are in fact quite sick and disturbing, even though it's all just fictional.

[Margalis]

The problem with comparing GOW to literature is that while a lot of literature is violent very little good literature revels in violence to the degree that GOW does. People who compare this to Greek myth seem barely familiar with Greek mythology, which is about pathos, tragedy, the role of man in the world, relationships, etc, far more than about violence itself. The sum of Greek mythology is the story of how Gods supplanted Titans, half-Gods supplanted Gods, and men supplanted half-gods, because while each successor was less powerful they were more clever and industrious. The core story isn't how awesome it is to rip a dudes heart out. There's nothing titillating about reading the Iliad, the violence is not arousing or exciting. It's actually quite dry.

Now that said I'm not going to condemn anyone who likes GOW or even likes the sadistic violence aspect of it, but there's no point it pretending that it isn't sadistic or that the violence serves some story worthy of and similar to classic mythology or great literature. Players are very clearly supposed to revel in the violence, and the game never raises the obvious moral questions that should abound. Brutality for it's own sake is clearly a selling point of the series.

[daakusedo]

Specifically for madworld, I just think it tried to be smarter than it is.
And as a whole, videogames too often throw violence at you and that's all, so of course when it's really gore and goes for "realistic" depiction, that shows even more the problem.
To be fair, it can be true about movies too.
Finally, what's important is to know if I want to enjoy games or any other media that goes for the shallow route, using violence and brutality as an end. Difficult question when you grew up with video games.

[DerZuhälter]

i agree, but to be honest you can stretch that debate even more for sure. [URL=http://www.imgbox.de/][IMG]http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/oyqIDmzjQs.jpg[IMG] [URL=http://www.imgbox.de/][IMG]http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/9ckAGXq7Zu.jpg[IMG]

To put it even further into perspective: This is the closest gaming violence came to the real thing. From the morbid comments to the look and feel of it. I'm not even going to bother and link to the comparable real footage.

[chubigans]

It's just convenience. The author thought that the article would be more interesting if he pretended to be shocked at the level of violence in a God of War game. It's not necessarily really what he truly thinks. And in your case chubigans it worked. Of all the GoW:A previews it was the one that stock the most with you.

Well maybe...but I don't necessarily think he's pretending.

[Rivyn]

I can handle any and all sorts of violence in both videogames and movies. They are all fictional mediums and despite them being more and more realistic when years go by, they do not strike me with goosebumps like real footages from terrorist bombings do today. The problem with some people is that they can not seperate from what is real and what is not. Shooting an NPC in a videogame in his head from point blank range is not the same as shooting a human being in his head, thus these two things should not provoke the same kind of emotions. If they do you are not fit to play violent videogames and watch violent movies.

[kruis]

It seems most people don't get the real issue with this GOW:A. It's not about violence per se, it's about torture. In the video you don't see people battling a gruesome monster and killing it with a bloody killing blow. In the multiplayer video you kill a cyclops who wasn't out to get you but shackled, unable to move, no harm to the player and almost desperate to get away. And then the player not only slices his jaw in two, but proceeds to throw hooks in the whimpering monster's eye and slowly pulls that huge eye out of its socket. That's why the video is compared to torture porn horror movies.

[Sega1991]

I've just read them. I can understand that the drive for a new perspective, but it strikes me that a writer should always have minimum understanding of a product he is covering. What if Sony Santa Monica had shown single-player and talked about the narrative? (Papy confirmed in the live stream yesterday that nobody knew they were showing multiplayer.) How would the writer have been accurately able to converse the setting and plot direction to his readers without any understanding of the franchise at all? How was the writer able to conduct a thorough interview with the development team without playing previous titles? I'm not criticising the writer or publication here, it seems like a well put together piece and I understand the desire for new perspectives. But, I don't know... Surely sending a journalist who has a familiarity with the franchise makes much more sense?

Does it make more sense? When a developer starts making games just for existing fans and nobody else, that's usually when things start to go off the rails.

Plus, God of War is big enough that it probably doesn't matter - he was probably familiar enough just through osmosis from colleagues. Even if I never see a specific TV show, I pick up on things about it from friends discussing it.

Regardless of all of that, maybe this speaks more to 1up's early impressions of God of War Ascension. Or maybe this is really the only person they had worth sending; if my fuzzy memory is correct, Parish doesn't really like God of War because of its violence, either. Perhaps everybody else was scheduled for other assignments when this came up. You never know.

For what it's worth, I think I agree with Mackey. It's hard not to sympathize with that cyclops - it's all in his facial expressions, which seem to be constantly shifting between "NO PLEASE DON'T" and "WHAT DID I DO TO DESERVE THIS". He stops looking like a scary monster and instead bares expressions of distress and sadness over his own death. Does he regret what he's done?

[Rivyn]

It seems most people don't get the real issue with this GOW:A. It's not about violence per se, it's about torture. In the video you don't see people battling a gruesome monster and killing it with a bloody killing blow. In the multiplayer video you kill a cyclops who wasn't out to get you but shackled, unable to move, no harm to the player and almost desperate to get away. And then the player not only slices his jaw in two, but proceeds to throw hooks in the whimpering monster's eye and slowly pulls that huge eye out of its socket. That's why the video is compared to torture porn horror movies.

It is not like the Poseidon slaughter or Hercules slaughter in God of War 3 was any different.

[benny_a]

In the multiplayer video you kill a cyclops who wasn't out to get you

I looked up the whole video now and there is set up for this. The cyclops is actually the third party in the fight between red and blue and is killing a member of both factions.

In addition to that he is the original cyclops that has murdered countless of humans. He is adorned with dead corpses hanging from his body.

[Callibretto]

It seems most people don't get the real issue with this GOW:A. It's not about violence per se, it's about torture. In the video you don't see people battling a gruesome monster and killing it with a bloody killing blow. In the multiplayer video you kill a cyclops who wasn't out to get you but shackled, unable to move, no harm to the player and almost desperate to get away. And then the player not only slices his jaw in two, but proceeds to throw hooks in the whimpering monster's eye and slowly pulls that huge eye out of its socket. That's why the video is compared to torture porn horror movies.

eh, for all we know these warrior is chosen by the Gods and told to kill the Cyclops. you don't say no when Gods told you to kill something. and these warrior are risking their lives doing their mission, want proof? the opposing team are all dead, which could easily be the red team who died.

the eyes are just easy target for big creatures like that so it's just more practical to attack that

[SmokyDave]

It seems most people don't get the real issue with this GOW:A. It's not about violence per se, it's about torture. In the video you don't see people battling a gruesome monster and killing it with a bloody killing blow. In the multiplayer video you kill a cyclops who wasn't out to get you but shackled, unable to move, no harm to the player and almost desperate to get away. And then the player not only slices his jaw in two, but proceeds to throw hooks in the whimpering monster's eye and slowly pulls that huge eye out of its socket. That's why the video is compared to torture porn horror movies.

So, it's God Of War, then?

Kratos has been a merciless killing machine utterly without remorse for a while. Remember that guy that climbs out of the window in GoW3 to escape the fire? He's whimpering and whining when Kratos smashes his face into the wall, for no good reason. That's just what he does, he's a right prick. Even the people that help him get killed, usually brutally.

I looked up the whole video now and there is set up for this. The cyclops is actually the third party in the fight between red and blue and is killing a member of both factions.

Well, that's that.

[Mung]

What absolute BS.

The number of shooters where there is massive realistic violence against human beings (such as COD), and he goes on about violence in a fantasy setting..

[PuppetMaster]

Oh I understand it completely. Question is, Do you? Explain to me why it's so odd to get disgusted by video game violence but perfectly normal to become emotional while watching a movie or reading a book. I nearly cried while watching Wall-E. Perfectly normal imo. And I definitely get disgusted by looking at gruesome video game violence, especially so if it's done in a way like the Modern Warfare airport scene and have realistic graphics. The further video games goes toward realism, the harder it will be to keep ignoring the fact that what we're doing in some games are in fact quite sick and disturbing, even though it's all just fictional.

Morality has nothing to do with feelings. Something feeling good or feeling bad does not make something wrong or right. Morality is a system of ideals we conform to in our real world to keep our society civilized and a enjoyable place to live in.

In a fantasy or game setting, wrong and right should only determined by the rules of that world. To try to apply real world morals on our fictional worlds would be the equivalent of enforcing a kind of thought police on the our real world. And that is about as morally perverted as a society can get.

[Aske]

I don't understand those that say "No! Don't take away the gore! It's awesome, bring it on!". How does gore make the game more enjoyable? How do the gory scenes (eye pulling scene or the nail pulling scene) make the game more 'awesome'?

You may not have experienced this if you rarely play M-rated games, but the reason some gamers find gratuitous gore especially stimulating is because killing in increasingly gruesome ways works players into a state of priapic excitement, colloquially known as a murder-boner.

Gaming-induced priapism occurs in all God of War players regardless of age or gender; and typically results in the pursuit of frenzied and painful masturbation sessions, during which players attempt to throttle small animals or homeless people with their free hand. Orgasm is frequently achieved before players' victims expire; but Sony Santa Monica tirelessly attempts to alleviate this disruprive phenomenon with ever more creative software.

As David Jaffe will attest, gaming-induced priapism can occasionally be satiated by an endorphin rush so powerful that it leads to orgasm without physical stimulation. However, this effect only occurs when extremely graphic and violent content is depicted on screen - such as the realistic mutilation of a cyclopean eyeball via a QTE.

[Mung]

A priapism sounds like a bad outcome to me lol

[tzare]

Lol, so now violence is an issue. I guess headshots are fine however, or sexuality like bayonetta's or some rpgs is cool too. If dislike it, just skip the game. Also lol at those saying they focus on gore because gameplay is shit. I guess kratos is not the only one that 'hates'.

[Rivyn]

You may not have experienced this if you rarely play M-rated games, but the reason some gamers find gratuitous gore especially stimulating is because killing in increasingly gruesome ways works players into a state of priapic excitement, colloquially known as a murder-boner.

You are just as crazy as that 1up guy.

I do not find gore stimulating nor do I find it a necessity to have it in every single game, but there is nothing wrong with the type of gore that the God of War franchise has because it shows that not every mythology is supposed to be depicted as unicorns and rainbows, but also as a mythology with gods who think they can do everything without any guilt.

[Clear]

Classical mythology is full of barbaric acts of unconscionable savagery. Its not like SSM are grafting the ultraviolence onto a kiddies fairy-tale.

Jason only escaped with the golden fleece in the legend because Medea killed her little brother and threw his dismembered body from the Argo, delaying their distraught father Iolkos of Kolchis and his pursuing fleet as they scrambled to collect the bloody remains!

[Ledsen]

I don't think students of any discipline would use the phrase "man-children" unless I'm missing something. Everything about your statement reads like a freshman taking a gender history class.

Sorry my friend, next time I post on GAF I'll make sure to make a couple of drafts and get someone to proofread and edit before I publish.

[matrix-cat]

God of War: Big monsters put their faces right down in front of you and allow you to slice them up without trying to stop you at all.

[test_account]

I'm a big God of War fan, but i must admit that when i saw the cyclops eye and jaw-ripping scene, i was almost looking away. I could live fine without that extreme violence. But i'm looking forward to the game regardless.

EDIT: And i agree that it is silly to call the enjoyment of this game for "serial killer convension". In my opinion, it is not just senseless violence in that way. It is a battle, i guess it can be compared to being a war in FPS games. I always stay away from games that has senseless violence in them (the Postal games are some examples). God of War are very violent games indeed, but one can turn away if it gets too brutal. I think i did that i God of War 3 when Hercules gets his faced bashed in over and over.

God of War: Big monsters put their faces right down in front of you and allow you to slice them up without trying to stop you at all.

The monster is being pulled down there by chains. There are three points/gears on the maps that you need to control/turn to get the monster pulled down.

[codecow]

Games with grotesque scenes of violence and dismemberment are really quite juvenile and in some cases can be borderline offensive.

[SmokyDave]

Games with grotesque scenes of violence and dismemberment are really quite juvenile and in some cases can be borderline offensive.

I'd like 'juvenile and borderline offensive' as my epitaph.

[GeoramA]

Games with grotesque scenes of violence and dismemberment are really quite juvenile and in some cases can be borderline offensive.

Agreed. And what about those awful Dead Space games? The developers, whoever they are, probably worship Satan.

[lucius]

I am not going to try to deny that is how the writer felt after attending the event but this has got to be the most attention 1UP has gotten in many years. After their excellent 1UP show disappeared no one even paid attention to them much. I don't buy the GOW games because of how over the top it is, I tried a few times to see what I was missing but it just wasn't for me.

[WanderingWind]

Games with grotesque scenes of violence and dismemberment are really quite juvenile and in some cases can be borderline offensive.

Yeah, like that Dante's Inferno game. Or that fantastically violent Army of Two.

So offensive.

[Sky Chief]

This reaction just shows what a good job SSM did with the Megaclops design and animation. Just before the spear is going to be thrust into his eye you can see a look of pure terror on his face. It just looks so real and it certainly made me squeamish. I have never really felt empathy for a video game monster but this one seems so human it connects with me on a deeper level.

[runlikehell]

that'sthejoke.jpg

...

Anybody complaining about violence in fantasy games is crazy.

[Kong Fisso]

Agreed. And what about those awful Dead Space games? The developers, whoever they are, probably worship Satan.

I worship Satan SO WHAT?! WANNA FIGHT ABOUT IT?!

Fuck ever since playing GoW I just want to KILL AND TORMENT someone in whatever order!

[RoboPlato]

I'm always surprised when I see these kind of reactions to GoW. It's just so comically over the top, over exaggerated, and in a crazy fantasy setting that it has pretty much nothing to do with realistic types of violence than can and should make people uncomfortable.

[Solid07]

All the violence in this game makes me feel warm and cozy inside. :)

Yeah, like that Dante's Inferno game. Or that fantastically violent Army of Two. So offensive.

COD: World at War comes to mine too. You could comically shoot off your enemies' limbs. Haters gonna hate. :)

[Curufinwe]

Hang on -- 1UP sent a writer with absolutely zero familiarity with the God of War series to preview the latest game?

Their God of War guy (Matt Leone) went to Polygon.

[Seraphinianus]

They should have sad Shadow of the Colossus music playing as you rip his eye out, then suddenly the cyclops starts speaking in a british accent: "No, what are you doing? I...I...I have a wife and family to feed! I'm just doing my job! You monstahs NOOOOOOO"

[roman2003h]

Oh I understand it completely. Question is, Do you? Explain to me why it's so odd to get disgusted by video game violence but perfectly normal to become emotional while watching a movie or reading a book. Both are fictional. Yet I nearly cried while watching Wall-E. Perfectly normal imo. And I definitely get disgusted by looking at gruesome video game violence, especially so if it's done in a way like the Modern Warfare airport scene and have realistic graphics. Thing is ,the further video games goes toward realism, the harder it will be to keep ignoring the fact that what we're doing in some games are in fact quite sick and disturbing, even though it's all just fictional.

I read this paragraph five times and I still don't understand what you are trying to say. So are violent movies bad too? Just because you consider something to be sick and disturbing doesn't mean that other people will experience the same emotion. For example I found the movie Hostel to be hilarious, but I can't watch even a minute of blurry footage taken from a plane of somebody being shot at in Iraq. That's because there's a difference between reality and fiction.

[ctrayne]

.

[Fredrik]

I read this paragraph five times and I still don't understand what you are trying to say. So are violent movies bad too? Just because you consider something to be sick and disturbing doesn't mean that other people will experience the same emotion. For example I found the movie Hostel to be hilarious, but I can't watch even a minute of blurry footage taken from a plane of somebody being shot at in Iraq. That's because there's a difference between reality and fiction.

My point is that those who says that it doesn't matter what kind of brutal things you do to a virtual character, no matter how real it looks with the animation and screams etc because it's just fiction - those people can't possibly feel anything when watching a movie either, because why would they care about what a movie character says, does, feels, etc, since it's also fictional?
I just don't believe them. I think they do care. They're just defending a game they love in a weird way.

[Refreshment.01]

Well maybe...but I don't necessarily think he's pretending.

So he's been writing violence pondering articles regarding the GoW series since the first 1?QTE's and violence is the trademark of the series. Im really asking btw, did he wrote articles concerning the violence issue?

From what i have seen this latest GoW is not at in level that transcends what we saw in part 3 so why start now. Chances are the article is a dishonest piece that tries to grab attention.

It seems most people don't get the real issue with this GOW:A. It's not about violence per se, it's about torture.

I can see your point kruis. But is not really that different from what we saw in part 3 for example. In many occasions, Kratos, with an already reduced and dominated opponent proceeded to do some really disturbing things. What's worse is that the game forced the player into perform this acts, option is never presented to him.

[FStop7]

No, it says in the quotes he avoided it because of its previews and gore why was he even at the event?

I appreciate different perspectives, I'm glad they sent someone like this.

[codecow]

They should have sad Shadow of the Colossus music playing as you rip his eye out, then suddenly the cyclops starts speaking in a british accent: "No, what are you doing? I...I...I have a wife and family to feed! I'm just doing my job! You monstahs NOOOOOOO"

I lol'd.