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Member
(04-30-2012, 01:50 AM)
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#651
A character that doesn't almost constantly act like a whiny brat, bitching and moaning about something at every turn? If this was only appearance-wise, fine, but some of her dialogue clearly indicates that she's fully capable of exhibiting mature, reasonable behavior if she really wanted to.
Her antics during her introduction was fine, but the fact that she's still all "THIS IS BULLSHIT, BUT LALALA I CAN'T HEAR ANY VALID POINT ANYBODY ELSE BRINGS UP" by even the end of the game is annoying. I honestly don't know if I'm better off comparing her to a small spoiled child or a cranky old man. I'm not saying it was objectively bad writing, it's just something I personally didn't like. I wouldn't have minded her nearly as much if she wasn't such a major character.
Last edited by Marlowe89; 04-30-2012 at 02:09 AM.
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Member
(05-02-2012, 02:02 AM)
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#655
youarealreadydead.gif |
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Member
(05-02-2012, 02:31 AM)
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#657
Time to up the ante, then.
Considering Thanatos was easily pummeled by Phosphora and Pit, neither of whom were gods and neither of whom wielded 'sacred' weapons at the time, what exactly makes an underling whimp like him so godlike? In terms of divine power, at least Viridi demonstrated that she was worthy of actually being called a goddess. |
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Member
(05-02-2012, 03:09 AM)
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#658
That and he's kind of the Worf of this game; being defeated by enemies just to show how strong they are. |
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Member
(05-02-2012, 03:15 AM)
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#660
It's implied that not only does he needs to be manually revived by Hades after every death, but that this can happen to anyone of Hades' choosing. He likely chose Thanatos of all people for his leadership skills rather than his raw fighting ability.
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Member
(05-02-2012, 05:07 AM)
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#662
Ultimately I guess the indicators of Thanatos being a deity are his godlike qualities and abilities (control over death, etc.), he's just not particularly seasoned in combat because he can't truly die. Or he's lazy, or both. That's the only explanation I can come up with, anyway.
Same goes for Pandora to an extent, but she wasn't exactly in her original form for the majority of the game. I generally hold her in slightly higher regard.
Last edited by Marlowe89; 05-02-2012 at 05:21 AM.
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Member
(05-02-2012, 05:10 AM)
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#663
Thanatos revives himself as I understand it.
He loses fights because he doesn't take them seriously. Just look back on Pit's fight with him. Thanatos was having too much fun making bat sounds and freaking Pit out by turning into a foot to take the fight seriously. He probably only fought Phosphora because he felt like being a dragon for a while. Seriously, if you could never die, would you take any of your fights seriously? |
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Member
(05-02-2012, 05:15 AM)
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#664
Yeah, I assumed being the "Master of Death" meant that anytime he died the universe would basically go: "Wait a minute, then there wouldn't be any death anymore...", and gets to work on bringing him back to life.
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Member
(05-02-2012, 05:20 AM)
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#665
When Hades calls Thanatos a special case, Hades is saying he favors Thanatos as particularly useful. What he sees in Thanatos, I don't know. At any rate, Pit and Palutena take note of the fact Thanatos, Hewdraw, Twinbellows, etc, were revived, as though they're all the same. So, even though Thanatos is God of Death, I don't think he just comes back whenever he dies. Thanatos might have powers dealing with death in others, but if he dies himself, he still needs an outside force to revive him, in this case Hades.
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Lit himself on fire to get
a mod to tag him (05-02-2012, 05:22 AM)
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#666
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Member
(05-02-2012, 05:27 AM)
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#667
I think it's really easy to forget that Palutena is a relatively minor deity in this game just because we play her dedicated warrior. Viridi and Hades both outrank her, severely. Pit wouldn't even have a chance against Hades without Dintos (sp?) crafting godlike weaponry for him. Palutena apparently loses to the Chaos Spawn! It costs hearts. :-( |
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Lit himself on fire to get
a mod to tag him (05-02-2012, 05:40 AM)
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#670
I think Hades outranks her, but Viridi never acts like Palutena is necessarily an inferior - more like an equal she wants to crush all the time.
Man, I wish we had Divinopedia. Would make these tier arguments so much easier. |
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Member
(05-02-2012, 05:45 AM)
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#671
well I think it's pretty clear that gods like Poseidon, Hades, Dyntos, and Zeus (though we don't see Zeus in KI:U ) far outrank deities like Viridi, Palutina, and Pyrrhon.
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Member
(05-02-2012, 05:46 AM)
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#672
In typical mythological fashion, the more a deity rules over, the more powerful that deity is. Realm Deities are top (Hades, lord of the underworld, Viridi, goddess of earth) Conceptual deities are next (Thanatos, god of death) Specialty-conceptual deities then (Pandora, goddess of calamity) Then heavily specialized deities are last (a god of farming, for example) What you cover in your specialties as a god always reflects your power in mythologies. There's no way Palutena is on the same level as Hades and Viridi, but she's probably at or above Pandora. |
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Member
(05-02-2012, 05:46 AM)
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#673
I mean, even Palutina calls them Lord Poseidon and Lord Dyntos, and she's a goddess herself.
Seeems like Pyrrhon should be absurdly powerful and Dyntos should be weak. I agree wtih your point, and it mostly holds in KI:U, but there are exceptions. |
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Lit himself on fire to get
a mod to tag him (05-02-2012, 05:48 AM)
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#675
That's just respectful, yo.
Poseidan and Dyntos and Hades I think are all top-tier. It's just Viridi I have beef with, but if you go by 'realm' I guess you're right. (Mind you Dnytos's realm is 'creation' so he's just cheating) |
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Member
(05-02-2012, 05:52 AM)
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#676
Why doubt Viridi's rank? She resets Palutena's worshippers whenever she wants! When Viridi and Hades square off, they both think they were "about to win" before the Auron show up, which would suggest that they are roughly on the same level. |
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Member
(05-02-2012, 05:53 AM)
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#677
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Lit himself on fire to get
a mod to tag him (05-02-2012, 05:55 AM)
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#678
I figured it was just ego. I just don't see Palutena as throwing herself into a fight she doesn't think she can win.
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Member
(05-02-2012, 05:55 AM)
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#679
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Member
(05-02-2012, 05:56 AM)
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#680
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Member
(05-02-2012, 05:56 AM)
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#681
Speculation aside, the only gods outright stated to have superiority over other gods in power are Hades and Dyntos I believe. Nobody knows where the fuck Poseidon ranks, we know next-to-nothing about him. Viridi was just being competitive to me, and I think Palutena is generally more powerful than some might give her credit for. I mean if she can do whatever she did to Medusa, I'd say she's well up there.
So to me: Dyntos > Hades > everyone else |
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Member
(05-02-2012, 05:57 AM)
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#682
Just check out Chapter 11's dialogue when Viridi comes on the screen. I think it's pretty clear that Palutena concedes her to be the greater power.
Last edited by Karsticles; 05-02-2012 at 06:00 AM.
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Member
(05-02-2012, 06:01 AM)
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#684
Spank me and call me Lucy -- what the fuck happened in here? Is this a fighting game balance thread?
Look guyz... The truth of the matter is, Palutena and Viridi are about even... Different strengths, different weaknesses... Palutena lords over the sky, Viridi over the world... Viridi has lots of power but Pit, with Palutena's help, systemically dismantles Viridi's most powerful assets (Reset Bomb Depot, Lunar Sanctum, etc). They all balance out. Hades is definitely markedly more powerful, though. It took the Great Sacred Treasure to take him down. And -that-, in turn, was made by Dyntos, a god so powerful that as one of the idol descriptions says (Pseudo-Palutena, I think) he was able to put Palutena to sleep and do so remotely. Not even Hades has that kind of power; otherwise he would've knocked Palutena out a long time ago! Wait a tic, here I am dragged down to your guys' level of discussion. Shame. LOVE YOU GUYZ.
Eh? Eh?! |
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Member
(05-02-2012, 06:06 AM)
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#686
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Member
(05-02-2012, 06:07 AM)
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#687
Quote:
Indeed. |
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Member
(05-02-2012, 06:12 AM)
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#688
Considering the in-story "requirements" for facing off against Medusa (which Pit didn't need for other gods/goddesses except Hades) and the fact that she SHORYUKEN'D HADES' HEAD OFF, I definitely can't say I agree with that notion. Not saying she's nearly as powerful as Hades, but still.
Medusa may not have played a pivotal role in the overall story but she was most certainly a reasonably strong goddess, all things considered. I simply don't believe there's any substantial grounds for ranking Viridi and Palutena into different tiers. They pretty much seemed like equal rivals. Guess we'll never truly know for sure, huh?
Last edited by Marlowe89; 05-02-2012 at 06:21 AM.
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Member
(05-02-2012, 06:21 AM)
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#689
1) Medusa 2) Thanatos 3) Pandora 4) Hades Medusa takes a combination of Pit, Palutena's help, and Dyntos' help. So, granted, she's a noteworthy foe. However, Thanatos clearly didn't even take his fight seriously. He transformed into a goddamn foot. Pandora is kind of a weird case. We don't know much about her background. She somehow lost her body, and it's not clear how that affects her power. It is also heavily suggested that she intended to lose her first match against Pit to bring about Dark Pit. It is even suggested that she was pretending to be surprised about Pit's rebellion so that she would eventually get her body back at the spring. Pandora seems more like a plotter and schemer than a fighter, so it's hard to rank her power among the gods. Hades is clearly a beast. So really, all we know is that Hades > Medusa among the deities Pit fought. The rest is pretty mysterious in nature. Yeah, Medusa ripped Hades' head off, but then what?? Hades just said "lol no" and removed her from existence, and then willed a new head onto himself. He was just caught off guard because he was prone while supercharging his ultimate attack. I don't think it's indicative of Medusa being powerful. The entire scene just reaffirms how much she's his bitch. My dogs can bite and hurt me, but it doesn't mean they're noteworthy opponents. If I were to rank the deities, I think it would go: Top: Dyntos High: Hades Viridi Poseidon Mid: Palutena Medusa Unknowable: Thanatos (probably above Palutena, but questionable otherwise) Pandora (her backstory needs more filling) |
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Member
(05-02-2012, 06:24 AM)
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#691
Palutena DOES lord over the sky. She's by definition the Ruler of Skyworld. Read her profiles. FACT BITCHES.
She's got the sky. Viridi's got the earth. Hades has got the underworld. Poseidon's got the sea. Like I said: they all balance out. They're all a bit more vulnerable in each other's realms (hence Palutena needing help from Poseidon going under the ocean, or Hades appearing anywhere and everywhere in the underworld). That said, Hades -is- a bit more powerful than the rest of them... in part because of the soul exploit (his idol even says that's how he regenerated missing body parts). And then Dyntos, as his idol says, is more powerful than them all. I think one of the idols, his or Pseudo-Palutena's, said Dynos is a true power to be reckoned with in the divine pantheon.
Last edited by Neiteio; 05-02-2012 at 06:26 AM.
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Member
(05-02-2012, 06:25 AM)
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#692
A rogue agent of the real sun god? Who knows? There's a lot we don't know. Palutena's own idol talks about how we don't know her motives for what she does, and Medusa says she's ugly on the inside. I'm not saying Palutena is secretly evil, but it should bring to mind how very little we know about one of the biggest players in this game by the time it's all said and done.
Last edited by Karsticles; 05-02-2012 at 06:34 AM.
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Member
(05-02-2012, 06:27 AM)
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#694
I think the bio's implication is that Pyrrhon's claims of being a god are merely hard to accept among the divine pantheon. Doesn't actually state for sure that he isn't the sun god, he's just overly boastful and tends to roll eyes.
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Member
(05-02-2012, 06:29 AM)
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#695
Hey, what the -- WHAT IS THIS??
![]() I have all 405 idols, but I don't have this (wingless Pit)? I haven't tried scanning this yet... Hopefully it's not too blurry... Are some idols only unlocked by scanning? My egg toss is at 0 percent chance of new... I have 405 idols. EDIT: HOLY FUCK IT WORKS. Just scanned it and unlocked it. I thought I had all the idols -- my egg toss said 0 percent new! WHAT ELSE IS LOCKED AWAY IN HERE? O_O
Last edited by Neiteio; 05-02-2012 at 06:31 AM.
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Member
(05-02-2012, 06:30 AM)
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#696
Medusa and Palutena are diametrically opposed forces (although they used to work together), the goddesses of darkness and light. They're going to be equal but opposite |
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Member
(05-02-2012, 06:34 AM)
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#697
She's the ruler of "Skyworld", not "the skies". Huge difference. Otherwise she'd be "goddess of light and heavens", but she's not. Reading through the idols, Hades is apparently above Dyntos and Poseidon: "He is immeasurably strong - even among the divine pantheon - but prefers to rule from the shadows, forcing Medusa to do his dirty work." My mistake, Viridi is goddess of nature. Nature encompasses earth, sea, and water, placing her above Poseidon and Palutena. Pyrrhon's idol says his divine lineage is questionable. Pandora's idol suggests that she is below Medusa in rank. Hades(Battle) says that Hades still didn't go all out on Pit in their battle. We should also note that Thanatos' base is in Poseidon's waters - wouldn't Thanatos have to outrank Poseidon to enjoy a comfortable home in his own land? |
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Member
(05-02-2012, 06:37 AM)
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#698
Goddammit Karsticles, I'm going to chew up your testicles.
"Nature" means biological organisms, not the water and earth and all that shit. So she's in control of an ecosystem. And... And fuck it. :P Palutena's powerful, goddammit. Her friggin' captain kills half of these assholes you're talking about. [/late-night nerd rage] |
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Member
(05-02-2012, 06:39 AM)
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#699
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Member
(05-02-2012, 06:43 AM)
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#700
Possible, but we might be over thinking stuff here. Frankly, Thanatos is a bit of a joke. |