[KalBalboa]

Let's not forget how this would make a major dent in used console sales.

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Sony should do this to get their install base up, haha. Plus they can play up the blu ray player, and the psnplus or whatever.

[darkside31337]

This is what Sony should have done with the Vita from day 1. $99 subsidized 3G unit through AT&T.

[watership]

Sony should do this to get their install base up, haha. Plus they can play up the blu ray player, and the psnplus or whatever.

That's if this actually moves consoles. I'm not sure it will be. Then again, I don't buy cell phones on contract, but millions do.

[ThatCrazyGuy]

That's if this actually moves consoles. I'm not sure it will be. Then again, I don't buy cell phones on contract, but millions do.

its going to be interesting how this turns out. I don't mind it, as long as thee is also the option to buy outright, if this takes off like MS wants it to in the future.

and yea, Sony should had did this with the 3g vita, hehe.

[KalBalboa]

Personally, a $99 160 gig PS3 with a $10/mo for two year contract that included Plus wouldn't seem as strange to me.

Plus comes with so much content and so many games every month, the proposition would hold better than just giving me access to the online portion of games I've already bought or streaming a Netflix account I already pay for.

[elcranky]

Why would a casual consumer want 2 years of Live? If it's just for streaming services like Netflix other devices already provide the ability to use those services without a monthly fee.

Umm, the streaming services are THE reason for Gold. I don't play MP at ALL and have been happy with gold ever since the entertainment options came along, in fact I didn't have gold until ESPN3 and Netflix.

[SmokyDave]

Then again, I guess anyone dumb enough to fall for this wouldn't really be the type of gamer to buy a next gen system early.

As an early adopter of the 360, this sentence had me pissing myself.

[Lone_Prodigy]

Cell phone contracts for consoles? It was only a matter of time.

[Chacranajxy]

I hope you realize that if consoles were restricted to those who could do that, far fewer people would buy them and the industry would be a in a less healthy state.

I don't really care. I think curing bad spending habits are more important than the health of the console market.

[AlStrong]

Sony should do this to get their install base up, haha. Plus they can play up the blu ray player, and the psnplus or whatever.

10 year plan.

[Barkley's Justice]

So $600 Xbox 720 subsidized with 2 year plan for $300?

[BurntPork]

Let's not forget how this would make a major dent in used console sales.

Finally, a way to stop second-hand hardware sales from killing the industry!

[CitizenCope]

This is brilliant.

[two4two]

I can't believe they didn't hold this idea for their next-gen console. They could announce it two months before launch and suddenly they've got a console for like $199 plus a two year contract. Compare that to whatever Sony's planning -- $399? $499? -- and I think it really puts them in a bad place.

A $99 Call of Duty and Netflix device probably has a ton of appeal. It's almost unfair.

[KalBalboa]

I can't believe they didn't hold this idea for their next-gen console. They could announce it two months before launch and suddenly they've got a console for like $199 plus a two year contract. Compare that to whatever Sony's planning -- $399? $499? -- and I think it really puts them in a bad place. A $99 Call of Duty and Netflix device probably has a ton of appeal. It's almost unfair.

I think they are. This, to me, seems like a test for a potential 720 pricing scheme.

[TheDiabolical]

didn't Sega try this with the Dreamcast?

[Afrikan]

Umm, the streaming services are THE reason for Gold. I don't play MP at ALL and have been happy with gold ever since the entertainment options came along, in fact I didn't have gold until ESPN3 and Netflix.

Accsess to those are free everywhere else though...(if ur ISP includes ESPN3).

So Live, now is worth the $60 a year fee for free sht?

[Barkley's Justice]

I can't believe they didn't hold this idea for their next-gen console. They could announce it two months before launch and suddenly they've got a console for like $199 plus a two year contract. Compare that to whatever Sony's planning -- $399? $499? -- and I think it really puts them in a bad place. A $99 Call of Duty and Netflix device probably has a ton of appeal. It's almost unfair.

Which would sell more? A $99 console to the casual market? Or a $2-400 next-gen console to a niche market?

[Dreams-Visions]

Sounds like it will meet the needs of many, and at essentially no interest.

The whining in here is absurd. You people act like its going to be the ONLY pricing model available. Calm down.

[Good Job Bob]

The Verge/Polygon continues to drop the bombs.

[Lynn616]

So no real price drop any time soon then.

[TheDiabolical]

So the deal isn't as bad as it seems at the outlook. Currently: Xbox 360 4gb + Kinect = $300 Xbox Live over 2 years = 2x$60 = $120 Total = $420 This bundle: Xbox 360 4gb + Kinect = $100 Xbox Live + extra services (??) over 2 years = 24 x $15 = $360 Total = $460 If the extra services actually are going to be something that regular gold subscribers don't get then it could be a good deal.

if this included a 320GB HDD and DLC content for games this deal would sweet as hell.

[LegendofJoe]

I thought people would become more receptive to this idea when one of the big manufacturers tried it out. I was a bit surprised by the very negative response my thread received when I proposed this idea as a way to make the loss leader model more profitable.

[Afrikan]

I think they are. This, to me, seems like a test for a potential 720 pricing scheme.

Yup pay an additional upgrade fee that would drastically extend your contract....but at least you won't feel like a loser who just signed a contract for the 360 when a brand new system released a year later.

[GaimeGuy]

LOL, at the self-ownage in this post. It is a fantastic deal based on the math. It was great before the addition of extra 1 year warranty, which only made it better. Now if you don't like that bundle of services and/or want to invest your time, which absolutely has a significant monetary cost unless you are 12, to source better deals on the individual components, the math changes a little.

The heck?

It's a terrible idea.

It's $460 for two years of service. And then $15 a month after that.

You may be saving money over a shorter 1 or 2 year period, but extend it beyond that and it becomes a money sink compared to current deals that allow youpermanent ownershipof devices

I do not want to pay a $180 lease for each year I own a system.

Say they adopt this model for next gen. $100 one time fee, plus $15 a month.

A 5 year console cycle costs you $1000 just to have the damn device.

Even if you pay the fees for peer to peer online gaming that MS charges (and no one else does), and bought a 250GB 360, and Kinect standalone now, it would be "only" $700 for 5 years. And that's if you let them hit you with the recurring Xbox Live charges.


You are an idiot if you think this is a good value. Say goodbye to paying $300-$400 for consoles, and hello to paying $800-$1000 through this nickel and diming scheme.

I hate all of you who are praising something like this in this thread. You are all fools.

[two4two]

I think they are. This, to me, seems like a test for a potential 720 pricing scheme.

Yeah, but now Sony can respond in kind. I expect everyone to do this soon, and I think there's a very real concern that you won't be able to buy unsubsidized consoles in the future. It's basically taking the cell phone model and leveraging their online services into one neat package. It's also an acceptable way to 'charge' for online for Sony.

Pure conjecture on my part, of course, but there's no way Sony has a device that costs like $300 more than their competitor and expects to succeed. The biggest issue with consoles is that initial price hump. People have no problem paying for stuff like controllers and memory cards if they've already made that initial investment. Just look at how much people spent on Wii peripherals back in 2006-2008.

[flyinpiranha]

Accsess to those are free everywhere else though...(if ur ISP includes ESPN3). So Live, now is worth the $60 a year fee for free sht?

It's free because it has to be IMO. I imagine a vast majority of Live players have a TV that probably doesn't have an apps and no PS3/Wii and/or PC connected to the TV.

Hell, I got rid of my PS3 because I wasn't playing even though I liked the interface for services much more than the shit that the 360 presents me, but it works just fine for what I need it to be. I won't do it through it the Wii (can't with many options), can't do it though PC due to HDMI issues on my HDTV ... so that leaves me with the 360 which I already pay Live for for many gaming options.

I don't agree with the paywall, but it's not that bad considering I'd have no other options at this point.

The heck? It's $460 for two years of service. And then $15 a month after that.

Did I miss this part? Where does it say this?

[GaimeGuy]

It's free because it has to be IMO. I imagine a vast majority of Live players have a TV that probably doesn't have an apps and no PS3/Wii and/or PC connected to the TV. Hell, I got rid of my PS3 because I wasn't playing even though I liked the interface for services much more than the shit that the 360 presents me, but it works just fine for what I need it to be. I won't do it through it the Wii (can't with many options), can't do it though PC due to HDMI issues on my HDTV ... so that leaves me with the 360 which I already pay Live for for many gaming options. I don't agree with the paywall, but it's not that bad considering I'd have no other options at this point. Did I miss this part? Where does it say this?

Do you HONESTLY Think after a 2 year lease period they'll say "oh, the device is yours!"

Hell no, you're still going to have to pay a monthly service fee, you just won't be charged $150 for returning it because you'll be out of contract and able to cancel any time, no penalties.

The only way this is a good deal is if you own the device after the lease period ends and have no service fees.

[Jackl]

Subsidized payment model? Could work long as subscription costs don't balloon. However my experience with mobile companies is 2 year agreements are too tempting to not have hidden rate increases.

[Hcoregamer00]

Hate all you want, from a business perspective it is brilliant:
-It keeps a steady cash-flow to Microsoft on both software and hardware
-It locks people to one hardware
-It "hides" the true cost of the hardware
-Allows the console maker to create higher-level hardware while selling it for $200-300

With that said, I hate it. It could be a brilliant business decision, but it is sure not customer friendly, same thing with phone contracts.

[Struct09]

Do you HONESTLY Think after a 2 year lease period they'll say "oh, the device is yours!" Hell no, you're still going to have to pay a monthly service fee, you just won't be charged $150 for returning it because you'll be out of contract and able to cancel any time, no penalties. The only way this is a good deal is if you own the device after the lease period ends.

...yes? Does AT&T confiscate your subsidized iPhone after your 2 year agreement is up?

[Impeccable]

I'll stick to buying my consoles outright.

[KittyKittyBangBang]

$460 for a 360, Kinnect and 2 years of Live. Not exactly a horrible deal for the casuals.

Exactly! and if you cant afford to shell out $300 for this bundle all at once, it could be a lot worse. I think its a good idea for Microsoft to try this and see if it gets more consoles into more living rooms.

That said I have no interest in this (needs to be the 250GB bundle) but cant blame MS for trying different business models

[flyinpiranha]

Do you HONESTLY Think after a 2 year lease period they'll say "oh, the device is yours!" Hell no, you're still going to have to pay a monthly service fee, you just won't be charged $150 for returning it because you'll be out of contract and able to cancel any time, no penalties. The only way this is a good deal is if you own the device after the lease period ends and have no service fees.

Of course that is what's going to happen. What the hell are you on about?

[Dreams-Visions]

Do you HONESTLY Think after a 2 year lease period they'll say "oh, the device is yours!"

I think this concern is unfounded dude.

Very.

[Jhriad]

Why wouldn't they want 2 years of live? It makes sense for MS to do this, they can introduce casuals to the joys of online gaming and get them suckling on the gold teat for many a year. Sony must be kicking themselves for not charging for online gaming. Like really, really hard.

*sigh* I'm talking about the price comparison. Read the things I'm quoting people. Price comparisons between the contract and retail + Live assume that the casual consumer would buy two years of live with the regular retail version.

Umm, the streaming services are THE reason for Gold. I don't play MP at ALL and have been happy with gold ever since the entertainment options came along, in fact I didn't have gold until ESPN3 and Netflix.

There are other, cheaper products out there for people that want that sort of thing. Products that don't have a monthly fee attached. Roku & Boxee would be better options if that's the only thing you're using Live for. Hell, a PS3 would be a better option.

[ShinUltramanJ]

I don't see the big deal. It's only $40 more, and for some people it makes more sense to stagger that amount over 2 years than pay more up front. You know, exactly the same principle that all credit and loans work on.

Or you could simply buy the hardware, and then sign up for one of their promos like the recent one of 6 months of Live plus five free games including Halo Reach. That's a lot better than being locked into some contract.

This is brilliant on Microsoft's part, because instead of dropping the price like usual, they've come up with a way to give off the perception of a price drop, while raking in more money.

[Sho_Nuff82]

Do you HONESTLY Think after a 2 year lease period they'll say "oh, the device is yours!" Hell no, you're still going to have to pay a monthly service fee, you just won't be charged $150 for returning it because you'll be out of contract and able to cancel any time, no penalties. The only way this is a good deal is if you own the device after the lease period ends and have no service fees.

You'd definitely have to pay the standard LIVE/service fees if you wanted to continue using those services afterwards, but they aren't going to come to your house and take your console back. Once your contractual obligation is up, you have the console and could conceivably use LIVE silver/offline play forever. Where is your panic coming from?

[KageMaru]

Why does the PS2 continue to sell? Consumers, how do they work?

The ps2 hardly sells these days, at least in most major markets AFAIK.

Also, from my experience, most consumers don't bother doing research so they are at the mercy of flashy marketing. MS could advertise this as a great deal even if it really isn't in reality and people would fall for it.

So $600 Xbox 720 subsidized with 2 year plan for $300?

If it meant a powerful console, I may be down for this....

...as long as a warranty is included for those 2 years =p

didn't Sega try this with the Dreamcast?

Yup, buy a DC and sign up for a year of Sega.net, you would get a $200 rebate IIRC.

[Jackl]

You'd definitely have to pay the standard LIVE/service fees if you wanted to continue using those services afterwards, but they aren't going to come to your house and take your console back. Once your contractual obligation is up, you have the console and could conceivably use LIVE silver/offline play forever. Where is your panic coming from?

Probably has had similar situations with cable/satellite contracts. Not an apples to apples comparison of course, but they do send you to collections if you don't return the equipment.

[Vane_MagicCity]

The heck? It's a terrible idea. It's $460 for two years of service. And then $15 a month after that. You may be saving money over a shorter 1 or 2 year period, but extend it beyond that and it becomes a money sink compared to current deals that allow youpermanent ownershipof devices I do not want to pay a $180 lease for each year I own a system. Say they adopt this model for next gen. $100 one time fee, plus $15 a month. A 5 year console cycle costs you $1000 just to have the damn device. Even if you pay the fees for peer to peer online gaming that MS charges (and no one else does), and bought a 250GB 360, and Kinect standalone now, it would be "only" $700 for 5 years. And that's if you let them hit you with the recurring Xbox Live charges. You are an idiot if you think this is a good value. Say goodbye to paying $300-$400 for consoles, and hello to paying $800-$1000 through this nickel and diming scheme. I hate all of you who are praising something like this in this thread. You are all fools.

What? It's $460 for a 360, Kinect and 2 years of Live Gold. You spend an extra $40 over a 2 year period than you would if you bought it outright. You are never paying $15 a month for Live.

The $15 monthly payment is to cover the bundle.

Let's put it this wayl $99 down plus $15 a month for 2 years. Total $460.

[RoninChaos]

This isn't really a stretch from cable providers giving people rebates when they buy computers just so they sign up for their services. NOt really sure why some of you are so shocked by something like this.

[GaimeGuy]

You'd definitely have to pay the standard LIVE/service fees if you wanted to continue using those services afterwards, but they aren't going to come to your house and take your console back. Once your contractual obligation is up, you have the console and could conceivably use LIVE silver/offline play forever. Where is your panic coming from?

Well, say you don't want to pay for Live or kinect in the first place. You can get the 4GB 360 for $199 now instead of being forced to pay $460. Hell, you can get the 4GB, hte kinect, andlive for $420 now. And tha'ts ignoring the fact that $120 of that $420 is a fee for peer to peer online gaming, a fee that only exists on the Xbox 360.

Enjoy being forced to buy bundles you don't want and have your reasonable "promotional period" prices turn into wallet rape once the promotional periods end. Does anyone feel happy when their cable/internet jumps from $60 a month to $150 after the promotional period ends? Because that's what you're going to get with all the BS media hub features on 360 with this new payment plan.

At least you don't get the rug pulled out from under you now with price hikes

Expect the lease option to be the only thing there next gen.

[ShinUltramanJ]

...yes? Does AT&T confiscate your subsidized iPhone after your 2 year agreement is up?

Do they let you make calls?

[RoninChaos]

Do you HONESTLY Think after a 2 year lease period they'll say "oh, the device is yours!" Hell no, you're still going to have to pay a monthly service fee, you just won't be charged $150 for returning it because you'll be out of contract and able to cancel any time, no penalties. The only way this is a good deal is if you own the device after the lease period ends and have no service fees.

I doubt that. Again, this is just like manufacturers helping to subsidize the price of PCs with things like signing up for Comcast, and getting 200 bucks off the computer. I seriously doubt they're going to ask you to give it back.

And ShinUltramanJ, they'll let you make calls if you keep paying the bill. Same with this. You can still get on xbox live if you pay the fee.

Have NONE of you dealt with contracts before?

[cnizzle06]

Man, I feel like systems are more aimed for a younger audience and I can't imagine this transaction without a credit check first so...what gives?

[Vane_MagicCity]

Well, say you don't want to pay for Live or kinect in the first place. You can get the 4GB 360 for $199 now instead of being forced to pay $460. Hell, you can get the 4GB, hte kinect, andlive for $420 now. And tha'ts ignoring the fact that $120 of that $420 is a fee for peer to peer online gaming, a fee that only exists on the Xbox 360. Enjoy being forced to buy bundles you don't want and have your reasonable "promotional period" prices turn into wallet rape once the promotional periods end. Does anyone feel happy when their cable/internet jumps from $60 a month to $150 after the promotional period ends? Because that's what you're going to get with all the BS media hub features on 360 with this new payment plan. At least you don't get the rug pulled out from under you now with price hikes Expect the lease option to be the only thing there next gen.

It will cost $40 more to finance this bundle. That's not a bad deal. If you don't want Live, but want the hardware, you can buy that for $300 right now. This bundle is for people who want it all but don't have $420 to spend up front.

Do they let you make calls?

Do they stop you from using it for non network related activities (taking pictures, mp3 player, games, etc...)?

[RoninChaos]

Well, say you don't want to pay for Live or kinect in the first place. You can get the 4GB 360 for $199 now instead of being forced to pay $460. Hell, you can get the 4GB, hte kinect, andlive for $420 now. And tha'ts ignoring the fact that $120 of that $420 is a fee for peer to peer online gaming, a fee that only exists on the Xbox 360. Enjoy being forced to buy bundles you don't want and have your reasonable "promotional period" prices turn into wallet rape once the promotional periods end. Does anyone feel happy when their cable/internet jumps from $60 a month to $150 after the promotional period ends? Because that's what you're going to get with all the BS media hub features on 360 with this new payment plan. At least you don't get the rug pulled out from under you now with price hikes Expect the lease option to be the only thing there next gen.

... why are you getting so bent out of shape about this? I don't understand this whole "YOU'RE FORCED" shit you're saying. If people don't want the bundle, then can make a choice, and not buy the fucking bundle.

Where is this coming from?

[ShinUltramanJ]

So only $40 more going by the normal $60 per year price? Because I often read how smart shoppers only pay $40 per year for Live.