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DarkPanda
Member
(05-02-2012, 06:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by M3d10n

It's ironic that Wiiware is the most likely to transfer, because the Wii U is the only next gen system guaranteed to be backwards compatible so it's only a matter of Nintendo setting up a transfer app that logs into whatever account system they come up for the Wii U and removes the licenses from the Wii.

Sony and Microsoft already have cross-platform account systems, but it means nothing if their next-gen consoles are unable of running previous-gen code.

This. People are really naive if they think that just because logins carry over it means that content will as well. It all hinges on whether or not the PS4 and 720 are fully backwards compatible with this gen or not. If retail games don't work on next gen consoles, then what magic do they think will make DD games work?

I'm sure the big 3 see DD and retail games the same: content you purchase to play on the console it was programmed for. Whether or not the games play on any future hardware is dependent on if they see the hassle of BC as worth it or not. Since Nintendo has already confirmed full Wii BC, theoretically they could release an update that allows you to tie your Wii to a specific Wii U account and enables re-downloads that way. Whether or not they will is another story. As for the other 2, we'll just have to wait and see what the BC situation is like.
Man God
Non-Canon Member
(05-02-2012, 06:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zoramon089

Are all you people claiming Nintendo won't support this even aware they already do for the 3DS? Are you guys aware Nintendo Network and the Wii U WILL support user accounts? It just doesn't make any sense to think it won't when all signs point to them setting up systems to allow this

That and its the only system with BC so far because it is the only system so far we have concrete details on.

In fact if some of the rumors are true either Sony or MS or both might have trouble doing BC at all, though I bet that both of them are trying pretty hard to include that.
Kazerei
(05-02-2012, 06:46 PM)
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So far, I've been able to transfer my DSi games to 3DS, and play some PSP games on Vita. So I'm hopeful that the console makers aren't purposely going to screw us over.
Gowans
(05-02-2012, 06:47 PM)
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If they want me to spend anything next gen then yes.
kassatsu
Member
(05-02-2012, 06:56 PM)
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If you are expecting psn games that are highly optimized for cell architecture (pixeljunk games etc) you are crazy.

Unless sony has one hell of a cell emulator lined up.
sechsterangriff
Member
(05-02-2012, 07:02 PM)
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Simply from an architecture point of view I can see Microsoft doing it rather easily, but I'm not so confident about Sony. Not only their hardware will probably be significantly different but who knows how different the development framework will be. I don't know if they'll be able to run the games natively...
Wonko_C
Member
(05-02-2012, 07:03 PM)
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Worst case scenario I'm anticipating: your downloaded content won't carry over to the next consoles. In a couple of years after the release of the next consoles they will pull the plug on the online services for the old consoles, your console breaks, you get a replacement but your digital games will not work and since you can't get online anymore to lock the licenses to your replacement console you effectively lose all your digital content.

I still can't get over not being able to patch my copy of Capcom VS SNK 2 on Xbox so the music doesn't stop playing after doing an Ultimate KO.
PhoReal
Member
(05-02-2012, 07:14 PM)
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I believe that consumers will be able to transfer their existing purchases to their new Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft consoles. Nintendo and Sony have allowed their consumers to do it with the DSi to 3DS and PSP to Vita. I don't see any reason why this wouldn't happen on home consoles.
AuthenticM
Member
(05-02-2012, 07:15 PM)
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If they don't, people are going to get murdered.
El Sloth
watch me play my flute
(05-02-2012, 07:22 PM)
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I've never, rather naively perhaps, even considered them not bringing over my XBLA and WiiWare games on to the next gen of hardware. I always just assumed that I would be able to re-download them on the new systems.

The majority of my gaming this generation has been done on downloadable titles like this. If I can't be confident that any of my downloadable purchases will carry on from one console to the next then I might just completely devote my self to a gaming PC for the next gen.
Impeccable
Member
(05-02-2012, 07:35 PM)
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If they don't come over I'll shed about 5 tears and move on.
PaulLFC
Member
(05-02-2012, 07:35 PM)
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Didn't Sony patent an external device for PS2 and PS3 BC that plugged in via USB? Maybe we could see that offered at PS4 launch as a separate purchase, with no BC built into the console.

This would probably be "best of both worlds" for Sony - they can focus on their new architecture without worrying about supporting PS2/PS3 within the console (except in the firmware), and people who want BC can buy the external device. There might be more than a few complaints if it's not priced well though.
M3d10n
Member
(05-02-2012, 07:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tain

If so, I'm surprised. I was under the impression that you would need to make custom drivers, custom resolutions, or use AdvanceMAME in a different OS (or something) if you wanted to output an honest-to-god unwavering scanlined low resolution image to an SDTV with modern cards. Is there anything to this outside of using the adapter? I have a spare-ish PC with a 4850 that might be worth hooking up to my SDTV.

Either way, I'm not totally convinced that Nintendo will bother, but if the 4xxx series can do this the Wii U supporting true low resolutions would be more likely than I thought.

You need custom resolutions. Download and install Soft15Khz and it should take care of most of your needs. However, for best results use Windows XP and avoid updating the display drivers (Windows 7 works fine except for Direct3D and DirectDraw crashing when switching between progressive and interlaced resolutions). Modern NVidia cards can be fooled into outputting 15KHz 240p too, but you need a dongle that pretends to be a CRT monitor and reports fake resolutions via the VGA data pin.

The hardware is there, it's just that the GPU makers don't bother exposing it in their drivers since so few people use it on the PC. So there should be no issues on the Wii U, short of Nintendo forgetting about it.
Last edited by M3d10n; 05-02-2012 at 07:47 PM.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
(05-02-2012, 07:43 PM)
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I don't know what I expect, but I know I only care about getting the games dumped in time so that future emulation technology is usable with the games I've purchased today. That's already the case with WiiWare (the entire library is dumped, you can dump anything you own, and there are no real barriers to emulation).

I have seen dumped XBLA games and I assume when the PS3 was hackable they were dumped there too. Emulation won't be around for a while because of the complexity, but again, as long as the content is dumped for when emulation comes around, I'm fine.

That being said, if someone asked me if I'd rather buy the same game on XBLA, PSN, or PC, I'd answer PC, no question.
Labadal
Member
(05-02-2012, 07:48 PM)
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I've spent so much money on PSN and XBLA. If they can't be played on future consoles, I won't boycott PS4/Nextbox, but I'll wait a few years before bothering with next gen systems.
NinjaBoiX
Member
(05-02-2012, 07:49 PM)
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Stump, what do you mean by "dumped"?
RoninChaos
Member
(05-02-2012, 07:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by SmokyDave

I think that they should, but I'm sceptical that they will. I think that's the main reason that my XBL / PSN purchases have really slowed down, because I know they will effectively 'expire' within a couple of years.

Same here. Idealy, they should, because if they don't then people will be less likely to go DD, which is what game companies keep saying they want.

Sony took a step in the right direction, sort of, with the Vita. The interface to get PSP games can be clumsy, especially if you can't directly download the files onto your Vita, and instead have to get them on the PS3 or PC.

And they still haven't turned on PSOne classic support. So who knows?

If they don't, it will severely hinder my desire to adopt next gen systems. I have plenty of games to play, so if the next gen comes out and there isn't BC, I could see not buying a new consoles for about 3 years and just killing off my backlog before I adopt new systems.
Zimbardo
Member
(05-02-2012, 07:56 PM)
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i don't expect PSN or Xbox Live titles to carry over. there might be a chance for smaller arcade titles to come over, but the larger retail games that can be bought via digital distribution like Battlefield Bad Company 2 and Batman Arkham Asylum, etc ...i seriously doubt it.

the PS3 basically included a PS2 inside the console in order to maintain backwards compatibility in its early days, so unless they are gonna do something like that again (hello higher price tag), they surely wont have a console powerful enough to pull off accurate emulation.

if it was so easily done, PC users would be emulating Uncharted 3 and Killzone 2, etc on their PCs right now.
boingball
Member
(05-02-2012, 07:58 PM)
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As a consumer I expect it.
But history tells me otherwise. And the companies will try to tell me that it is in my best interest.
Shiggy
Member
(05-02-2012, 08:12 PM)
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I think all XBLA/PSN/WiiWare purchases will be deactivated and thus become inaccessible as soon as next-gen systems launch.
King_Moc
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(05-02-2012, 08:22 PM)
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Well, I think Nintendo will as they already did it once on 3DS. And all my Steam games carry over when I upgrade my PC.

As for MS or Sony? I wouldn't be so sure.
semiconscious
Member
(05-02-2012, 08:28 PM)
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re-purchasing some psp umds via dd was about it for me (hd remakes, when done well, i can handle). yes, it's just as likely that current dd titles won't run on next-gen hardware, & no, i won't be re-purchasing anything - enough's enough...

fucked-up, but not unexpected...
Karsticles
Banned
(05-02-2012, 08:34 PM)
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If any of the big three wants to hit a home run next generation, allowing current generation digital purchases to transfer is the first step.
Rad Agast
Member
(05-02-2012, 08:48 PM)
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I expect all my DD stuff to carry over to the next gen of consoles. It works fine on PC so why not? If it doesn't then I'll just skip that specific brand.
BigDug13
Member
(05-02-2012, 08:52 PM)
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What would be the incentive to stay an "Xbox guy" with the next gen if I'm starting from scratch anyway?

If I buy Rock Band 4 on the next console, are all those songs no longer able to move over? That will keep me in "last gen" mode for awhile if so.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
(05-02-2012, 08:59 PM)
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They better follow me to my next-gen purchases. That is all.
wondermega
Junior Member
(05-02-2012, 09:01 PM)
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I like what PaulLFC said, I think it would not be unfair for a manufacturer to sell a separate external box with the needed guts to handle the hardware emulation, even if it was a good extra $100 or so. That's a tad bit pricey but not unreasonable, and though many would complain it would seem elegant enough (able to keep costs of the main system down, there are still plennnnnty of people who really will not care about BC especially a couple of years into nextgen). For some reason I don't expect anybody to honestly produce such a device; BC network/DD support will likely be a pretty important buzzword when nextgen finally does roll around, and if one has it the others are gonna look pretty lame if they don't. Personally, I think MS will have it built in, they seem to always lead in the online space (never mind shutting down xbox live1)
M3d10n
Member
(05-02-2012, 09:17 PM)
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Another ironic turn of fate is that XBLIG games will probably carry over without issues, since they are written in XNA and have no low-level dependence on the hardware.
Morokh
Member
(05-02-2012, 09:55 PM)
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XBLA and PSN could do that easily with the account system, Wiiware not so much.

I hope they will, but i'm quite pessimistic about it happening for real, and that has been one of the main reasons that stopped me from purchasing more than a few.
Syphon Filter
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:12 PM)
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To those talking about hardware changes preventing the transfer. How come on pc it works then even if you change your hardware?
Adam Prime
hates soccer, is Mexican
(05-02-2012, 11:17 PM)
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I'll say "yes" to answer the question.

But honestly, there are only a couple of very few XBLA/PSN games that I'll want to continue playing on a new console. HD Remix and Super Meat Boy. Everything else, it would be a bummer, but honestly I don't keep replaying old PSN/XBLA games to begin with. Those games are pretty disposalable to me in the first place. I wouldn't be too pissed if I never played them again.


... I'm absolutely convinced you are 100% screwed on WiiWare/VC. If you bought anything on those services you have only yourself to blame.
Man God
Non-Canon Member
(05-02-2012, 11:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Syphon Filter

To those talking about hardware changes preventing the transfer. How come on pc it works then even if you change your hardware?

Same OS, same standards, they aren't hard coded for the same exacting specs a console is.

Sometimes though it doesn't. Native Win 95 games can be a pain in the ass to play these days.
test_account
XP-39Cē
(05-02-2012, 11:22 PM)
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When i buy a game for a specific system, i dont take for granted that it will work on another system. So in this case, i dont expect digital download games to work on the next consoles. It would be nice if they did of course, but it is not something that i expect.



Originally Posted by Man God

Same OS, same standards, they aren't hard coded for the same exacting specs a console is.

Sometimes though it doesn't. Native Win 95 games can be a pain in the ass to play these days.

Native DOS support is usually not very good either. I tried to play Larry 5 recently, even on a Windows98SE PC (which has some DOS support), and i couldnt get it to run because of "lack of memory". Luckily DOSbox came to the rescue.

EDIT: It doesnt work to natively install older OS on new PC either, at least after my experience. I remember trying to do dual boot with Win98 years ago after building a new PC. It worked to install it, but it took a long time to boot it and it was pretty much useless.
Last edited by test_account; 05-02-2012 at 11:31 PM.
Kokonoe
Banned
(05-02-2012, 11:23 PM)
I expect XBL, I however have no intention of buying another Microsoft console.
kassatsu
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Syphon Filter

To those talking about hardware changes preventing the transfer. How come on pc it works then even if you change your hardware?

You aren't programming for one specific video card and processor.
Brera
Banned
(05-02-2012, 11:36 PM)
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I stopped buying any more VC games until this was clarified.

I don't trust Nintendo.

I think Sony and MS may let them be BC. PSN/Live games don't tend to push their consoles hard so shouldnt be hard to emulate.

Minis work on PS3, PSP and VITA so it seems Sony at least gets it...
Zoramon089
Banned
(05-02-2012, 11:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shiggy

I think all XBLA/PSN/WiiWare purchases will be deactivated and thus become inaccessible as soon as next-gen systems launch.

Joke post, right?
snoopeasystreet
Banned
(05-02-2012, 11:40 PM)
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I think xbla games will carry over. I don't expect PSN games to transfer (assuming the rumors of them dropping the cell is true) but idltd be nice if they did and I don't think there's a hope in hell that Wii games will.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
(05-02-2012, 11:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zoramon089

Are all you people claiming Nintendo won't support this even aware they already do for the 3DS? Are you guys aware Nintendo Network and the Wii U WILL support user accounts? It just doesn't make any sense to think it won't when all signs point to them setting up systems to allow this

But if you lose your 3DS you cannot redownload those same games when you buy a new one or am I wrong? Hopefully WiiU fixes this.
Kusagari
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:44 PM)
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Considering Live is the lynchpin for MS, I think that they'll do everything possible to assure they transfer over.

Sony, I'm not sure of at all.
gaming_noob
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:45 PM)
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Sticking with a cloud solution like Steam if Nextgen doesn't transfer any of my PSN games.
Why would you do that?
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:47 PM)
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I trust Nintendo will do it (they did it with DSi -> 3DS), and I trust that Sony will carry over whatever is compatible (i.e. PS1 games, the few PS2 games they have, and Minis... They did it with Vita).

I don't know anything about Microsoft, but I can't see them not carrying over what they can (though if the new system is a different architecture, they can't carry over anything but XBLIG I think, unless they try emulation).
Chacranajxy
I paid good money for this Dynex!
(05-02-2012, 11:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by -NinjaBoiX-

Stump, what do you mean by "dumped"?

Dumping a game means you're taking it off of the original media (typically carts or arcade PCBs) and putting it on a computer as a file.
Satchel
Banned
(05-02-2012, 11:48 PM)
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Put it this way. If they don't, I won't buy anything digital next gen.

What if I want to sell my PS360 but keep my online profile?

I just lose all that content? Fuck that.

My iPhone 3G games still work on my iPhone 4.
Last edited by Satchel; 05-02-2012 at 11:51 PM.
Warm Machine
Member
(05-03-2012, 12:00 AM)
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I won't be surprised if that content isn't compatible with the next round of machines nor will I be sad if it is the case. I bought Xbox 360 games for play on an Xbox 360 just as I did NES games to play on an NES and not a SNES.

If a XBLA game does play on MS's new console that means that the retail games should too as they are both made to take advantage of the same architecture.

I look at the change in architecture as a performance bonus not a punishment. Hardware that enables BC can restrict the design and cost of the console.

I fully hope that all xbox 360 content that I have purchased will be available for download for as long as MS is a company. They have done very well so far by not restricting the amount of times a piece of content can be downloaded or the availability of that content after you have purchased it.
IrishNinja
(05-03-2012, 01:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Sp3eD

I hope my Rock Band content has somewhere to go next generation. I have $2000+ dumped into it.

holy shit

Originally Posted by Combichristoffersen

They don't. The PS2 emulator is in the PS3 OS, so they'd need to write a PS2 emulator for PS4.

is it possible the PS4 would be far enough ahead of PS2 tech to just run it the way PS3 did PS1? i don't know if i wanna say "brute force" here or however it is we usually emulate things without the original hardware.

Originally Posted by OldJadedGamer

But if you lose your 3DS you cannot redownload those same games when you buy a new one or am I wrong? Hopefully WiiU fixes this.

I'm a little unclear on this myself - the games ive bought & registered with my Club Nintendo account, I wanna say if i lose my 3DS I can do an account recovery on a new one, possibly with help on the phone. my personal concern is that i merged an ambassador account onto mine and im afraid id have a hard time getting those titles back since i did so after the point of their respective surveys/i don't have anything showing for it except on my local eshop.
H_Prestige
Banned
(05-03-2012, 01:11 AM)

Originally Posted by IrishNinja

is it possible the PS4 would be far enough ahead of PS2 tech to just run it the way PS3 did PS1? i don't know if i wanna say "brute force" here or however it is we usually emulate things without the original hardware.

The ps3 does pure software emulation of ps1 and ps2. The only difference is that the compatibility is much lower on the ps2 side and you can't play off the disc.

I'd expect the ps4 to have full emulation of ps2 and also allow disc playback. It would be really poor form on Sony's part otherwise. Really incompetent.
Cels
Member
(05-03-2012, 01:59 AM)
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Sony can't get 100% PSP compatability for PSV and couldn't do PS1 compatibility at launch so I'm not so sure people should be confident that PS4 will play your PSN games. I'm hopeful, of course.
thebeeks
Member
(05-03-2012, 02:06 AM)
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PSN/XBLA: I'd be mad if they didn't.

Wiiware: Not really holding my breath. They're showing some progress with the 3DSware, though.
CadetMahoney
Banned
(05-03-2012, 02:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by RedStep

I believe MS will, as they have a pretty standard architecture as well as focus on DD. The way they handle it reminds me of Apple, where your content continues to be available as you upgrade. It's intelligent, as it keeps you locked in their ecosystem (as mentioned earlier).

The way Nintendo handles DD and the potential changes in Sony's architecture worry me a bit, though. Neither of those is easy to overcome.

Sony may have to increase the base price of the console to have Cell in there somehow to make everything flawless BC. Not a good place to be for Sony.

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