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CzarTim
Member
(05-01-2012, 01:57 AM)
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Alderaan is the worst WZ. They need to cut down the time it takes to cap by at least a third and then lower the number of points needed to win.

90% of Civil War matches are one team capturing two objective points and then holding them for the whole match. This is especially frustrating since games still start with less-than-full teams.
Miletius
Member
(05-01-2012, 02:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by CzarTim

Alderaan is the worst WZ. They need to cut down the time it takes to cap by at least a third and then lower the number of points needed to win.

90% of Civil War matches are one team capturing two objective points and then holding them for the whole match. This is especially frustrating since games still start with less-than-full teams.

I agree. I enjoy pvp a lot, but every time Aldreaan comes up I'm tempted to drop OP. It's boring if you are winning because it's about either defending the empty node or by zerging the attack node. It's frustrating if you are losing because it's about zerging what you perceive to be the weaker node and just praying you get space enough to take the objective before people come flying back from respawn.

Oh, and there's one stealther pretending he's a BA over at node 3, "sapping" and then getting caught while capping the node.

Huttball is my choice for best arena. It's got a good mix of objective play and position jockeying. You can contribute by running the flag or by securing locations, being in pass position or by killing the other team's ball handler or support. Instead of artificial terrain objectives giving you artificial points you've got natural objectives that reward you by being there with better access to the ball and key resources.
gatti-man
Member
(05-01-2012, 06:08 AM)
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My favorite is Nova huttball favors force wielders WAYYYYY too much. Nice concept though.
CzarTim
Member
(05-01-2012, 06:25 AM)
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Yeah, Nova is my favorite too. Voidstar is second.
theta11
Member
(05-01-2012, 07:50 AM)
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They made a good change in Alderaan taking away the side speeders on PTS then for some reason readded them. The reason the cap is the length it is is probably because of CC, most mezzes last 8 seconds so capping needs to be longer than that. They just need to remove the side bikes because defending 2/3 nodes in Alderaan right now is too easy and leads to 1 sided games. From my personal experience I either destroy or get destroyed in Alderaan, there's no in between.
Anbokr
Bull on a Donut
(05-01-2012, 08:04 AM)
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Huttball needs to be deleted from the game. that is all.
reggieandTFE
Member
(05-01-2012, 08:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by gatti-man

My favorite is Nova huttball favors force wielders WAYYYYY too much. Nice concept though.

I agree. My gunslinger has one move that can knock people off platforms and I have to go into cover before I can use it. Meanwhile, I'm getting pulled, pushed and flung all over the arena.
Cystm
Banned
(05-01-2012, 08:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by Anbokr

Huttball needs to be deleted from the game. that is all.

Huttball is one of the best modes in all of competitive gaming. Ranked warzones are going to make it so much better too.
Anbokr
Bull on a Donut
(05-01-2012, 08:43 AM)
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Competetive my ass. It's a mode that takes 0 skill and revolves around who has the most healer sorcs, juggs, and tankassins. Huttball's the only warzone you can legitimately lose to a team 100x worse than you based on comp alone. It's like WoW arena, but worse, where RMP would make up 75% of teams over 2400.

This is coming from a dude who only groups with tankassins and sorcs and thus wins 90% of huttballs or loses them to the 6-8 man pub premade with 3 sages, 1-2 juggs, 1-2 tankassins, and healers all around. My dps operative is absolutely 100% useless in huttball. Sure, it's fun running around and ganking the guys in the corner with 50% hp, but it doesn't do anything for your team but give the other guys a free respawn that contests your teams' advance.
Last edited by Anbokr; 05-01-2012 at 08:45 AM.
Milly79
Member
(05-01-2012, 01:15 PM)
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1.2.2 Patch Notes
5/1/2012
Classes and Combat

General
•Corrected an issue that prevented damage shields (such as Force Armor) from re-applying properly when activated before the current damage shield expired has been addressed.

Trooper

Commando
•Plasma Cell now correctly deals its damage 3 times per application.

Companion Characters

General
•Corrected an issue that caused companion stat bonuses from equipped items to be miscalculated when the companion was resummoned.

Crew Skills

General
•Corrected some performance issues related to opening the crafting window if it contained a very large number of schematics.

Crafting Skills
•Some gear that could be reverse engineered but erroneously displayed the "No Research Available" tooltip has been corrected.

Gathering Skills

Slicing
•Premium Slicing lockboxes now yield the correct amount of credits.

Flashpoints and Operations

General
•An issue that prevented Hard Mode Flashpoints from dropping loot based on group composition has been addressed. Drops usable by a person in the group are not 100% guaranteed, but the system now properly takes composition into account.
•The "Exit Area" button in Flashpoints and Operations is now disabled during combat.
•Corrected an issue that prevented Operation Group leaders from being added to the Operation Officer Chat channel.

Operations

Explosive Conflict
•Pulsar Droids in the Warlord Kephess encounter now have the correct amount of health in 16-player Hard Mode.
•Kephess now uses the Gift of the Masters ability during 16-player Hard Mode.

Items

General
•Mysterious, Unusual, and Wondrous Eggs can now be sold on the Galactic Trade Network.
•An issue that could prevent hair from showing on Jedi Knights while wearing certain visors has been addressed.

Missions and NPCs

General
•The weekly Nightmare Pilgrim mission now rewards 4 Black Hole Commendations.
•If a player logout causes a mission to fail, the player is now transported outside of that mission's phase when logging back in.

Missions

World Missions

Corellia

Black Hole Area
•The previous mission requirements for The End of Torvix (Imperial) and Chasing the Shadow (Republic) have been removed. Players can now accept these missions at any time within the daily restrictions.
•Players not on the mission The End of Torvix (Imperial) or Chasing the Shadow (Republic) can now use the elevators inside the phase to assist group members with the mission.

Taris
•No Escape: Corrected an issue that could prevent an encounter associated with this mission from resetting if the group was defeated and re-entered the phase.

Class Missions

Jedi Consular
•Marked: Corrected an issue that prevented the player from speaking to Lord Shendan if they exited the phase before speaking with him.

Smuggler
•Heist of the Millennium: The map now indicates the correct elevator on the step “Return to the Shuttle.” Several map note issues have been addressed.

Trooper
•Stay Frosty: This bonus mission no longer occasionally fails to end even after the player completes the primary mission.

PvP

Warzones

General
•Corrected an issue that could cause multiple sounds to play on top of each other when receiving multiple medals at once.

Huttball
•A rare issue that could grant players rewards for two Huttball wins at the end of a match has been corrected.

Voidstar
•Corrected an issue that occasionally caused both teams in the Voidstar to receive less rewards than intended.

Space Combat

General
•Corrected a UI issue that could prevent players from firing their ship's weapons.
•Female characters' companions now play the proper voice-over during Space Combat Missions.

UI

General
•Pressing the Enter key on the prompt that displays when purchasing an expensive item now cancels the window instead of accepting the cost.
•Corrected an issue that could cause completed missions to reappear in the mission log and tracker.
•Pressing the R key to reply after receiving multiple tells now correctly displays the name of the player that will receive the reply.
•Moving items in the inventory no longer affects their display in hotbars or in the mission tracker. This also corrects an issue that could prevent items in hotbars or the mission trackers from being used from those locations.

Galactic Trade Network
•The Search button is now correctly disabled for categories that do no have a subcategory when there are no search results.

Groups and Targeting
•The "Always Show Class Symbol" preference is now disabled by default.
•Target Markers can now be bound to keys in the preferences menu.

Guilds
•Guild Banks now display on the map even if the player is not in a guild or the player's guild does not currently have a Guild Bank.

Miscellaneous Bug Fixes
•Corrected a rare client crash that could occur for characters with full banks, inventories, and a full ability list.
•Some text errors in the French and German clients have been corrected.
•An issue that could cause display errors in fullscreen windowed mode has been corrected.
•Corrected an issue that could cause the primary graphics to display to not be selected as the startup monitor when running the game for the first time on machines with multiple graphics devices.

Exit area while during combat removed? Ughhh. Also, yay at fixing the reply bug!!
Draxal
Member
(05-01-2012, 01:26 PM)

Originally Posted by Cystm

Huttball is one of the best modes in all of competitive gaming. Ranked warzones are going to make it so much better too.

It's quite horrible due to the fact that it totally screws up class balance in the game by making incidental/non-gamebreaking pvp moves game breaking in huttball (hi guardian leap).
BattleMonkey
Member
(05-01-2012, 01:47 PM)
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Oh yes! They removed having to do the previous dailies before doing End of Torvix. Kept hating that as getting groups was a pain as there was always a ton of people waiting for the others to finish their dailies before they could join the instance.

Huttball is just dominated by Sith and Jedi, bouncing and pulling everywhere, sprinting through fire.... meh. And it's only in Huttball am I constantly cursing at the fucking CC. People don't use their CC as much and it's not that important in the other warzones.

Huttball can be fun if you got two balanced teams of classes, but so many of the issues with pvp to me are because of it.

Yea I would like Alderaan to be more offensive based, as it usually is determined in the first couple minutes while it's so easy to defend the points.
Last edited by BattleMonkey; 05-01-2012 at 01:49 PM.
kyo_daikun
Member
(05-01-2012, 01:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Milly79

The rotation isn't too bad either. It's around 5 keys, with fillers thrown in between to keep your energy over 60%.

With that being said, you can see some of it in action here, in Story Mode EC. It's quite hard to see how much damage I'm doing on some of the bosses, but I eventually zoom out to see some of it myself. You can also see my keybinds and how I have my bars set up.

Who is that super awesome healer saving your ass every 5 minutes? Oh wait.. :P

Minefield phail cracked me up when I watched it earlier

Apparently exit area was removed due to it bugging out bosses and such, fabricator was one of the biggest offenders I beleive, no escaping the repair bill anymore.
Zafir
Member
(05-01-2012, 01:52 PM)
Yeah, I really wouldn't call Huttball the best either, and my main is a Jugg which is considered to be one of the better classes for the map. It just completely favours force classes. Powertech comes close, but you have to spec for the charge.

Amusingly on my server there's a premade which runs with only force users, and they own at Huttball. However, shove them in any other warzone, and they lose more than they win.
Miletius
Member
(05-01-2012, 02:58 PM)
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I dunno -- I feel pretty useful with my sniper in huttball, but I prefer my Powertech or Guardian. Mostly because I like shielding people. Either way, I think Huttball is my favorite because it's not as contrived as the rest of the WZ. I understand how non-force users might feel screwed though.

Voidstar would be my 2nd pick, although I feel as though it's rare nowadays that anybody reaches the goalpost. I hate to bring it up but there's a reason why Arathi Basin had 5 nodes instead of 3, and on more uneven terrain -- it encouraged more dynamic play. Of course, with SWTOR limited to 8 players per zone it makes less sense.
Enosh
Member
(05-01-2012, 03:01 PM)
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•The "Exit Area" button in Flashpoints and Operations is now disabled during combat.

fuuuuck
kms_md
Member
(05-01-2012, 03:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Milly79

We can't all have Marauders. ;)

how true - i have all four bars filled with keybinds.
antiquegamer
Member
(05-01-2012, 03:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Miletius

I dunno -- I feel pretty useful with my sniper in huttball, but I prefer my Powertech or Guardian. Mostly because I like shielding people. Either way, I think Huttball is my favorite because it's not as contrived as the rest of the WZ. I understand how non-force users might feel screwed though.

Voidstar would be my 2nd pick, although I feel as though it's rare nowadays that anybody reaches the goalpost. I hate to bring it up but there's a reason why Arathi Basin had 5 nodes instead of 3, and on more uneven terrain -- it encouraged more dynamic play. Of course, with SWTOR limited to 8 players per zone it makes less sense.

I stop using my Operatives, Sith Assassin own in Huttball even at low level I still can't believe how easy it is.
HBroward
Member
(05-01-2012, 05:14 PM)
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Best thing in the patch is being able to bind the target markers to keys. Finally!
Isaccard
Member
(05-01-2012, 06:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Anbokr

Huttball needs to be deleted from the game. that is all.

NEVAR

Originally Posted by BattleMonkey

So when are Mauraders/Sentinels getting nerfed? :P

It's their BS survivability that needs to be nerfed.
Last edited by Isaccard; 05-01-2012 at 09:10 PM.
BattleMonkey
Member
(05-01-2012, 06:22 PM)
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So when are Mauraders/Sentinels getting nerfed? :P
markatisu
Member
(05-01-2012, 07:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by theta11

From my personal experience I either destroy or get destroyed in Alderaan, there's no in between.

Yup pretty much this. I think my favorite is Voidstar, its one where the game can go either way and I always do a decent amount of damage and get MVP points as a Commando.

Huttball is fun too, despite my team almost never winning. Alderaan is alright, if you at least half act like a team you can win that without much effort. I hate Novare though, jesus christ it just seems like every match I play of that the winning team happens in the first few mins and you just waste time till its over.
Francois424
Junior Member
(05-02-2012, 12:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Isaccard

It's their BS survivability that needs to be nerfed.

We finally are viable enough for PvE (without having to ressort to Overleveling or Purple Gear all around)
... especially for these tough boss fights (you know the ones). Please dont take it away.

Games really need to create a different ruleset for PvP nowadays.
Otherwise it just never stops !
BattleMonkey
Member
(05-02-2012, 01:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by Francois424

We finally are viable enough for PvE (without having to ressort to Overleveling or Purple Gear all around)
... especially for these tough boss fights (you know the ones). Please dont take it away.

Games really need to create a different ruleset for PvP nowadays.
Otherwise it just never stops !

They were always awesome in pvp, they are now monsters. They only needed to tweak the difficulty of many of the pub boss encounters because they really are harder than the empire missions.

The buff to expertise which favors damage dealing also just goes in their favor.
Francois424
Junior Member
(05-02-2012, 03:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by BattleMonkey

They only needed to tweak the difficulty of many of the pub boss encounters because they really are harder than the empire missions.

That would work as well.
As long as we dont go back to not being able to progress, then let's do it =)
Cystm
Banned
(05-02-2012, 03:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Anbokr

Competetive my ass. It's a mode that takes 0 skill and revolves around who has the most healer sorcs, juggs, and tankassins. Huttball's the only warzone you can legitimately lose to a team 100x worse than you based on comp alone. It's like WoW arena, but worse, where RMP would make up 75% of teams over 2400.

This is coming from a dude who only groups with tankassins and sorcs and thus wins 90% of huttballs or loses them to the 6-8 man pub premade with 3 sages, 1-2 juggs, 1-2 tankassins, and healers all around. My dps operative is absolutely 100% useless in huttball. Sure, it's fun running around and ganking the guys in the corner with 50% hp, but it doesn't do anything for your team but give the other guys a free respawn that contests your teams' advance.

You are over exaggerating. If your OP is only capable of killing targets already at 50% health only, then you are doing it wrong.

RMP was one of the most complex comps to pull off in arenas that were dominated by BroCleave and Shadow Cleave rollface comps while I was still playing.

Huttball is ridiculously fun to play as a premade team game. Pugging is always variable, of course, but I have even in those circumstances loved the gameplay.
Isaccard
Member
(05-02-2012, 04:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Francois424

We finally are viable enough for PvE (without having to ressort to Overleveling or Purple Gear all around)
... especially for these tough boss fights (you know the ones). Please dont take it away.

It's just..too good in PvP. =/

Though I've since switched to Madness, and you guys cant cleanse dots. :D

I can live with that one bs defensive one, it's the stealth that really pisses me off.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
(05-02-2012, 05:07 AM)
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My gunslinger is pretty borked after last night's patch. You can't go into cover while moving. The workaround is to stop running and then go into cover but it's making PVP extremely difficult.
Heysoos
Member
(05-02-2012, 05:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by Isaccard

It's just..too good in PvP. =/

Though I've since switched to Madness, and you guys cant cleanse dots. :D

I can live with that one bs defensive one, it's the stealth that really pisses me off.

Unfortunately, that's our only way to dump threat fast in PVE.
Anbokr
Bull on a Donut
(05-02-2012, 05:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Cystm

You are over exaggerating. If your OP is only capable of killing targets already at 50% health only, then you are doing it wrong.

RMP was one of the most complex comps to pull off in arenas that were dominated by BroCleave and Shadow Cleave rollface comps while I was still playing.

Huttball is ridiculously fun to play as a premade team game. Pugging is always variable, of course, but I have even in those circumstances loved the gameplay.

Where did I say I can ONLY kill guys with less than 50% hp? I said it's fun running around and ganking people at sub 50% in huttball because you move at 70% ms in stealth, stealth detection is fairly weak in this game, aoe is insane, and huttball is all about sprinting, predation, charging past obstacles where an operative has no place. One knockback and you're done. Sit around for 30 seconds waiting to restealth and go back to ganking the most undergeared person in the warzone for the lulz. In Alderaan or Voidstar you can actually contribute as a dps operative and be a huge powerhouse in taking that undermanned node before reinforcements can arrive.

I'm not going super in depth with the RMP comparison, I'm just throwing it out there as a dominant comp across WoW for years (sure everything has counters, it's not a 100% comparison--but RMP was fairly easy up to 2k, sure when you get in the top 3% of teams you'll run into counters, but getting up there was significantly easier as RMP compared to other comps, for years). But in Huttball, tankassins/juggs/sorcs are the cookie cutter "i destroy huttball with 2 buttons" classes that have a huge advantage over everyone else in a warzone that's really rooted in survival, luck, and obstacles the most mobile and defensive classes win. I never really feel "outplayed" in Huttball unless I lose to a team with less sorcs/tankassins than my team.

TLDR: there's nothing skill based about getting pulled by a sorc, using a trinket when full resolved, popping force cloak and sprinting through fire to score. Maybe my WoW arena comparison was pretty awful as arena required 100x the attention to detail and reaction time of huttball.
Last edited by Anbokr; 05-02-2012 at 06:07 AM.
Cystm
Banned
(05-02-2012, 07:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Anbokr

Where did I say I can ONLY kill guys with less than 50% hp?

You implied that here:

Originally Posted by Anbokr

My dps operative is absolutely 100% useless in huttball. Sure, it's fun running around and ganking the guys in the corner with 50% hp, but it doesn't do anything for your team but give the other guys a free respawn that contests your teams' advance.

Originally Posted by Anbokr

I said it's fun running around and ganking people at sub 50% in huttball because you move at 70% ms in stealth, stealth detection is fairly weak in this game, aoe is insane

Compared to what? Are you referring to Perception? Stealth detection isn't something that should be too much of an issue for non stealth classes to handle, if they use their abilities correctly to mitigate your damage/element of surprise.

Originally Posted by Anbokr

huttball is all about sprinting, predation, charging past obstacles where an operative has no place. One knockback and you're done. Sit around for 30 seconds waiting to restealth and go back to ganking the most undergeared person in the warzone for the lulz.

You are right, you are not meant to be carrying the ball while sprinting through fire traps, that's your tanks job. Your job as an DPS OP is to sit on a healer and take him/her out of the equation as much as possible. Between your opener, your main interrupt distraction and your ability to separate the healer from his/her tank with Sever Tendon + Pin Down you should be doing well, particularly if you run premades, and thus have teamates there with you focusing down heals while the rest of your group invariably tunnel visions down the ball carrier.


Originally Posted by Anbokr

In Alderaan or Voidstar you can actually contribute as a dps operative and be a huge powerhouse in taking that undermanned node before reinforcements can arrive.

Cool. I think you should be just as viable in Huttball too.

Originally Posted by Anbokr

I'm not going super in depth with the RMP comparison, I'm just throwing it out there as a dominant comp across WoW for years (sure everything has counters, it's not a 100% comparison--but RMP was fairly easy up to 2k, sure when you get in the top 3% of teams you'll run into counters, but getting up there was significantly easier as RMP compared to other comps, for years). But in Huttball, tankassins/juggs/sorcs are the cookie cutter "i destroy huttball with 2 buttons" classes that have a huge advantage over everyone else in a warzone that's really rooted in survival, luck, and obstacles the most mobile and defensive classes win. I never really feel "outplayed" in Huttball unless I lose to a team with less sorcs/tankassins than my team.

2k was nothing. I would run triple dps to 2k for gold. My point being, anything at that rating is easy for the most part, once you are beyond 2.2 - 3k the competition begins to materialize, and timing your CC through perceived target swapping isn't easy, and takes experience and skill at that rating. That said WoW arena's are pretty rollface these days, or so I am lead to believe by the friends that still play that game. I am drawing on my experience from s3 to s...god what was Cata? 7? Whatever is going on with that game that you might be referring to, is nonsense to me. So, I will apologize here, if that is the case.

Originally Posted by Anbokr

TLDR: there's nothing skill based about getting pulled by a sorc, using a trinket when full resolved, popping force cloak and sprinting through fire to score. Maybe my WoW arena comparison was pretty awful as arena required 100x the attention to detail and reaction time of huttball.

Oh, you.

There is when you force him to pop his trinket before he is ever close to the goal line as a means of survival, that you bring about by severing him from his heals, by locking that bitch down. Ranked Warzones should hopefully change your perception on that.
Last edited by Cystm; 05-02-2012 at 07:22 AM.
Anbokr
Bull on a Donut
(05-02-2012, 07:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Cystm

You implied that here:

I didn't imply anything, I said it's fun running around in huttball ganking low hp targets; I never said I absolutely cannot kill anyone above 50%.


Compared to what? Are you referring to Perception? Stealth detection isn't something that should be too much of an issue for non stealth classes to handle, if they use their abilities correctly to mitigate your damage/element of surprise.

Sorry, I meant stealth detection is fairly strong, thus it's not that difficult to catch a stealther sneaking up on you or chasing down a dude that vanishes (if you have a detect stealth ability).

You are right, you are not meant to be carrying the ball while sprinting through fire traps, that's your tanks job. Your job as an DPS OP is to sit on a healer and take him/her out of the equation as much as possible. Between your opener, your main interrupt distraction and your ability to separate the healer from his/her tank with Sever Tendon + Pin Down you should be doing well, particularly if you run premades, and thus have teamates there with you focusing down heals while the rest of your group invariably tunnel visions down the ball carrier.

In ranked or against premades healers are always surrounded by at least 1 tank. It is impossible for an operative to knock out a healer with any sort of guard, that usually takes the combined effort of 3 dps. In which case a marauder, assassin, or PT would all be more suitable.

Cool. I think you should be just as viable in Huttball too.

Sorry, I disagree. Concealment ops have no place in ranked huttball, aside from maybe serving as an opener for marauders (we'll see).

2k was nothing. I would run triple dps to 2k for gold. My point being, anything at that rating is easy for the most part, once you are beyond 2.2 - 3k the competition begins to materialize, and timing your CC through perceived target swapping isn't easy, and takes experience and skill at that rating. That said WoW arena's are pretty rollface these days, or so I am lead to believe by the friends that still play that game. I am drawing on my experience from s3 to s...god what was Cata? 7? Whatever is going on with that game that you might be referring to, is nonsense to me. So, I will apologize here, if that is the case.

I just brought up RMP as a well known dominant comp, especially in TBC, similarly how a team of assassins, juggs, and healer sorcs synergize almost too well in huttball and will dominate that warzone.


Oh, you.

There is when you force him to pop his trinket before he is ever close to the goal line as a means of survival, that you bring about by severing him from his heals, by locking that bitch down. Ranked Warzones should hopefully change your perception on that.

Tanks in this game take quite awhile to go down, and in ranked you can bet that ball carrier will have a guard on him and at least 2 healers. When he pops force cloak + speed, he is gone. Whether he has healers or not, he is going to score with full resolve, force cloak, saber ward, a medpac, that 20k+ hp health pool and the mitigation he has against snipers/marauders and any white damage.

Also, about shutting down healers, sure in pug games you can try instagibbing healers, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. But against a coordinated huttball team just pounding on the healers usually amounts to nothing, as the tank ball carrier still has enough juice to score while you and another dps are distracted on his healer. Also, most healers I've seen actually follow their BC across the ramps where an operative is weakest, one knockback after your opener and you are finished. And if the operatives sole job in ranked huttball is to shut down healers, you can probably sub in any dps aside from a merc that will be much more efficient in that regard.

That has been my point the entire time. An operative cannot effectively damage in an environment like huttball aside from the middle or the pit (which usually equates to ganking). If you get knocked off or picked out of stealth on those AoE infested ramps with giant mobs, you are finished. The only thing that I can see fixing this is shadowstep, but introducing that would be a major fix for operatives in huttball but gamebreaking in other areas. The operatives toolset is all based around ganking vulnerable targets or winning 1v1s. This works amazingly well in pug games (especially pug alderaan/civil war), but not so much in ranked, where you have guys actively communicating on voice chat, and where you will probably never catch a guy alone in the back. This is why I'm not a fan of huttball. It's heavily skewed towards comp (sure you can argue every form of PvP is affected by group composition, but huttball takes this to the extreme).
Last edited by Anbokr; 05-02-2012 at 08:06 AM.
Isaccard
Member
(05-02-2012, 04:50 PM)
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What trinket are we talking about here? Or are we reffering to WoW?

Tanks go can go down easily to a Madness Sorc/Assassin, if theres no one to cleanse the DoTs.
Last edited by Isaccard; 05-02-2012 at 04:52 PM.
BattleMonkey
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(05-02-2012, 06:02 PM)
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Kind of an anti end of the world article and interview about SWTOR currently and how they are putting more resources into pvp and endgame content now.....

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...wtor-doubters/

Endgame should have always been important, it's obvious though they didn't put much thought into pvp at first.

Hopefully this doesn't turn into them focusing just on expanding the endgame grind and not put focus on the game in general and expanding story stuff.
Draxal
Member
(05-02-2012, 06:09 PM)

Originally Posted by BattleMonkey

Kind of an anti end of the world article and interview about SWTOR currently and how they are putting more resources into pvp and endgame content now.....

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...wtor-doubters/

Endgame should have always been important, it's obvious though they didn't put much thought into pvp at first.

Hopefully this doesn't turn into them focusing just on expanding the endgame grind and not put focus on the game in general and expanding story stuff.

I definetely agree with Bioware about the pvp, I didn't expect to see such a devout following for pvp in this game (and even with the earlier hypberole about having the best pvp developers, they clearly didn't expect it as well).

I'm quite content with the leveling process/story process, I just think they need something like's Rift's Instant Action (or something equivalent to it), just having new dailies all the time is quite a chore.
Cystm
Banned
(05-02-2012, 07:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Isaccard

What trinket are we talking about here? Or are we reffering to WoW?

Tanks go can go down easily to a Madness Sorc/Assassin, if theres no one to cleanse the DoTs.

We are referring to WoW. Every class in SWTOR gets a trinket built into the class itself. In WoW, you had to earn a trinket that cleared your CC.
Anbokr
Bull on a Donut
(05-02-2012, 07:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Isaccard

What trinket are we talking about here? Or are we reffering to WoW?

Tanks go can go down easily to a Madness Sorc/Assassin, if theres no one to cleanse the DoTs.

I don't know how madness' dots work but one of the most annoying things for my marauder is that our bleeds require a white damage hit to connect before they are applied, thus anything that reduces our accuracy or increases the defense of our foes completely destroys mara damage for awhile. Think that's supposed to be the achilles heel of marauders and snipers. My marauder absolutely destroys healers but can't touch tanks. My operative fairs well against tanks but isn't the best at stomping a healer (unless he doesn't have barrier, and I have my relic up).
gatti-man
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(05-02-2012, 08:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Anbokr

I don't know how madness' dots work but one of the most annoying things for my marauder is that our bleeds require a white damage hit to connect before they are applied, thus anything that reduces our accuracy or increases the defense of our foes completely destroys mara damage for awhile. Think that's supposed to be the achilles heel of marauders and snipers. My marauder absolutely destroys healers but can't touch tanks. My operative fairs well against tanks but isn't the best at stomping a healer (unless he doesn't have barrier, and I have my relic up).

Lol marauders are ridiculously op. Achilies heal lmao.
Anbokr
Bull on a Donut
(05-02-2012, 08:42 PM)
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yeh i just shred tanks in 3 secz ez, 5k dmg 5k dmg 5k dmg, ezzzz. Na. Maras shred sorc healers and other dps (especially mercenaries), but are pretty useless when banging on a tank (leave that to classes with tech/force damage). You know, when 90% of your abilities are white damage, they get countered by defense and nearly every tank CD. Not going to get into the 1000x "lololol maras op nerf plz" debate, but maras are pretty much hard countered by snipers, tanks, and often lose 1v1 to good concealment operatives (not going to call this a hard counter, though my operative eats marauders alive).

Your sentinel 50 yet gatti ;)?
Last edited by Anbokr; 05-02-2012 at 08:45 PM.
gatti-man
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(05-02-2012, 09:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Anbokr

yeh i just shred tanks in 3 secz ez, 5k dmg 5k dmg 5k dmg, ezzzz. Na. Maras shred sorc healers and other dps (especially mercenaries), but are pretty useless when banging on a tank (leave that to classes with tech/force damage). You know, when 90% of your abilities are white damage, they get countered by defense and nearly every tank CD. Not going to get into the 1000x "lololol maras op nerf plz" debate, but maras are pretty much hard countered by snipers, tanks, and often lose 1v1 to good concealment operatives (not going to call this a hard counter, though my operative eats marauders alive).

Your sentinel 50 yet gatti ;)?

No I can't tear myself away from my bh. Idk why bc it just makes me bitter but i can't do anything until he has full war hero. I've got pants boots ear both implants and gloves so half way there. Plus I'm still learning to pvp Pyro since I've always pvpd arsenal. I'm getting better but still can improve. I'm thinking I might shelve my sentinal and roll another Rep as a tank since I'm afraid by the time i lvl the sent to 50 bioware will have broken that AC too. I'm thinking Vanguard currently.

Honestly I think I really suck with sentinal. Its just not my style. I think i rolled it bc i was so pissed about getting facerolled 24/7 by them but they just don't fit how i play wz. I really enjoy them pve though. Its the exact opposite with Pyro pveing with Pyro sucks IMO but pvping feels so good.
Cystm
Banned
(05-02-2012, 09:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Anbokr



Tanks in this game take quite awhile to go down, and in ranked you can bet that ball carrier will have a guard on him and at least 2 healers. When he pops force cloak + speed, he is gone. Whether he has healers or not, he is going to score with full resolve, force cloak, saber ward, a medpac, that 20k+ hp health pool and the mitigation he has against snipers/marauders and any white damage.

Also, about shutting down healers, sure in pug games you can try instagibbing healers, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. But against a coordinated huttball team just pounding on the healers usually amounts to nothing, as the tank ball carrier still has enough juice to score while you and another dps are distracted on his healer. Also, most healers I've seen actually follow their BC across the ramps where an operative is weakest, one knockback after your opener and you are finished. And if the operatives sole job in ranked huttball is to shut down healers, you can probably sub in any dps aside from a merc that will be much more efficient in that regard.

That has been my point the entire time. An operative cannot effectively damage in an environment like huttball aside from the middle or the pit (which usually equates to ganking). If you get knocked off or picked out of stealth on those AoE infested ramps with giant mobs, you are finished. The only thing that I can see fixing this is shadowstep, but introducing that would be a major fix for operatives in huttball but gamebreaking in other areas. The operatives toolset is all based around ganking vulnerable targets or winning 1v1s. This works amazingly well in pug games (especially pug alderaan/civil war), but not so much in ranked, where you have guys actively communicating on voice chat, and where you will probably never catch a guy alone in the back. This is why I'm not a fan of huttball. It's heavily skewed towards comp (sure you can argue every form of PvP is affected by group composition, but huttball takes this to the extreme).

Just going to have to agree to disagree.
BattleMonkey
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(05-02-2012, 10:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Anbokr

yeh i just shred tanks in 3 secz ez, 5k dmg 5k dmg 5k dmg, ezzzz. Na. Maras shred sorc healers and other dps (especially mercenaries), but are pretty useless when banging on a tank (leave that to classes with tech/force damage). You know, when 90% of your abilities are white damage, they get countered by defense and nearly every tank CD. Not going to get into the 1000x "lololol maras op nerf plz" debate, but maras are pretty much hard countered by snipers, tanks, and often lose 1v1 to good concealment operatives (not going to call this a hard counter, though my operative eats marauders alive).

Your sentinel 50 yet gatti ;)?

Mars/Sents eat through tanks as well if they got no healing support. There is no one they don't mow right through. All our defenses are on really high CDs, and geared up there is very little difference in HP between the classes. One crit pretty much negates any HP difference.
Last edited by BattleMonkey; 05-02-2012 at 10:39 PM.
gatti-man
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(05-03-2012, 12:18 AM)
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I'm stuck out with my gf emp gaf don't hate me! I will be on as soon as i can.
Anbokr
Bull on a Donut
(05-03-2012, 12:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by BattleMonkey

Mars/Sents eat through tanks as well if they got no healing support. There is no one they don't mow right through. All our defenses are on really high CDs, and geared up there is very little difference in HP between the classes. One crit pretty much negates any HP difference.

Not really accurate. Force/tech classes eat through tanks at a way faster rate compared to maras/snipers since these 2 have 90% white damage.

Actually gotta * this. Annihilation marauders and carnage marauders (to a lesser extent) can't do much to tanks (annihilation is 100% white damage, carnage is 80%). Rage marauders on the other hand destroy tanks (especially guard), but rage is a pretty gimmicky no fun spec and 95% of marauders are still annihilation.
Miletius
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(05-03-2012, 01:07 AM)
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Thing is -- why would you gear as a tank for PvP? The only people who do it are those who specifically design themselves to be hutball runners -- so, almost nobody. Taugrim did an article about why def/block/abs are no good for PvP and it's pretty much been passed all around the block.

Sure as a tank you have CD's that may or may not mitigate but generally speaking your CD's mitigate more than white damage -- that's what they are designed to do.

Point is, nobody is mitigating significant amounts of White damage in Warzones right now. Maybe the metagame will change and people will start gearing for it but as it is right now nobody is running around harder for snipers/maras to kill than anybody else.
BattleMonkey
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(05-03-2012, 02:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Anbokr

Not really accurate. Force/tech classes eat through tanks at a way faster rate compared to maras/snipers since these 2 have 90% white damage.

Actually gotta * this. Annihilation marauders and carnage marauders (to a lesser extent) can't do much to tanks (annihilation is 100% white damage, carnage is 80%). Rage marauders on the other hand destroy tanks (especially guard), but rage is a pretty gimmicky no fun spec and 95% of marauders are still annihilation.

I'm sorry but the whole thing about Mara's being useless against tanks is utter bullshit. Damage mitigation by tanks is a joke in pvp. The other classes could kill faster? Yes. But to say "useless" is beyond ridiculous. Oh no it takes another second or two to take down a tank. Useless! White damage or not, it barely matters when they are capable of such sustainable high dps instead of holding being bursty. Expertise gear pretty much shits on any type of defense as well since it favors damage now and defense already was pretty much a joke for tanks in pvp

Originally Posted by Miletius

Thing is -- why would you gear as a tank for PvP?

Guard is awesome, but yea most people wouldn't bother with it if we had dual specs allowed. Tanks are pretty shit in pvp outside of guarding, our damage negation is pretty pointless and ignored by countless things.
Last edited by BattleMonkey; 05-03-2012 at 02:44 AM.
Isaccard
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(05-03-2012, 03:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by gatti-man

I'm thinking Vanguard currently.

Honestly I think I really suck with sentinal. Its just not my style. I think i rolled it bc i was so pissed about getting facerolled 24/7 by them but they just don't fit how i play wz. I really enjoy them pve though. Its the exact opposite with Pyro pveing with Pyro sucks IMO but pvping feels so good.

Maybe try the other side of BH? Powertech, according to and proven by Grys have ridc burst dmg in PvP. I've never actually seen it happen, but at the end of a match the he's topped the scoreboard with over 400k. Vanguards are nice too.

Originally Posted by Anbokr;37502765[B

]I don't know how madness' dots work[/B] but one of the most annoying things for my marauder is that our bleeds require a white damage hit to connect before they are applied, thus anything that reduces our accuracy or increases the defense of our foes completely destroys mara damage for awhile. Think that's supposed to be the achilles heel of marauders and snipers. My marauder absolutely destroys healers but can't touch tanks. My operative fairs well against tanks but isn't the best at stomping a healer (unless he doesn't have barrier, and I have my relic up).

Assassin DoT's are all yellow dmg; I would assume it's the same for sorcs.
Last edited by Isaccard; 05-03-2012 at 03:27 AM.
Anbokr
Bull on a Donut
(05-03-2012, 04:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by BattleMonkey

I'm sorry but the whole thing about Mara's being useless against tanks is utter bullshit. Damage mitigation by tanks is a joke in pvp. The other classes could kill faster? Yes. But to say "useless" is beyond ridiculous. Oh no it takes another second or two to take down a tank. Useless! White damage or not, it barely matters when they are capable of such sustainable high dps instead of holding being bursty. Expertise gear pretty much shits on any type of defense as well since it favors damage now and defense already was pretty much a joke for tanks in pvp

Useless was a stretch, but maras are the most susceptible to tanks. As soon as I see a tank pop a CD or a huttball runner, I just switch to the healer--other classes are much more effective at shredding that tank, I'm not going to waste my time hitting him for 1.7k annihilates and missing 1/3rd of my attacks. In any type of ranked game, unless your desperately trying to stop a tank, the maras job is going to be to sit on the healers or quickly take down enemy dps trying to run ahead. That "high sustainable dps" isn't very sustainable on tanks--I know this from personal experience.

Sure a tank running around like a headless chicken without a healer to guard is going to die to anyone, but on Keller's Void at least, the majority of tanks have multiple pocket healers (especially on pub), and they play smart--tunneling them as a marauder is not effective at all. Tanks are very very strong with an organized group in SWTOR, you'll see at least 2-3 on every team come ranked.
Lilsnubby
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(05-03-2012, 06:32 AM)
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huttball is my favorite. game needs more huttball not less. I'd like to see different arenas.
Miletius
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(05-03-2012, 06:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by BattleMonkey

Guard is awesome, but yea most people wouldn't bother with it if we had dual specs allowed. Tanks are pretty shit in pvp outside of guarding, our damage negation is pretty pointless and ignored by countless things.

That's the thing though. There are plenty of people who spec tank, or run with guard stance, but most pvp tanks avoid shield talents and focus on passive mitigation where they can get it. Likewise, the meta gear game is to go for damage stats (crit/surge/power/ect..) and avoid def/shield/absorb because they do jack in PvP, where most damage is force/tech.

On my guardian I'll often run Vigilance with guard stance and completely ignore the tank tree because you can get better passive mitigation by doing that and you don't give up damage.

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