[Menelaus]

Hey Mano . . . . who is worse? These douchebags? Or this douchebag?

Apples and oranges, both rotten.

[theBishop]

Occupy has had remarkably little vandalism.

Anyway, I don't think any vandalism justifies the level of police force I've seen at zuccotti park.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Unrestrained capitalism is the reason global warming is happening. OWS is extremely focused on reigning in capitalism and protecting the environment. I'm not sure how you can separate the two issues.

Yeah right, most of that is fearmongering about nuclear power. They have no clue how to do anything to protect the environment.

Hey Mano . . . . who is worse? These douchebags?

Both are. Political and racial violence are both equally disgusting. I don't know why you want to say one is better than the other.

Occupy has had remarkably little vandalism.

You seem to be forgetting all the human waste Occupy Philly would leave in the park all the time.

[ClassyPenguin]

I don't see anything wrong with the NY picture.
It's not like they were bashing heads or dropping tear gas to intimidate.

[theBishop]

You seem to be forgetting all the human waste Occupy Philly would leave in the park all the time.

You have no idea what you're talking about. I was at Dilworth Plaza every day for months and didn't see human waste. Which is pretty incredible considering how many homeless people were being fed and receiving medical treatment.

PS: City Hall isn't exactly a "park".

[GoutPatrol]

You have no idea what you're talking about. I was at Dilworth Plaza every day for months and didn't see human waste. Which is pretty incredible considering how many homeless people were being fed and receiving medical treatment. PS: City Hall isn't exactly a "park".

Shhhh, don't hear these lies Manos! Fight the real enemy!

[speculawyer]

Both are. Political and racial violence are both equally disgusting. I don't know why you want to say one is better than the other.

I disagree with both of them but I see a difference between property damage and shooting people.

[theBishop]

Shhhh, don't hear these lies Manos! Fight the real enemy!

haha. The local transportation worker's union provided a row of portapoties. Didn't hear Glenn Beck mention that.

City Hall usually smells like piss because when the radical left isn't occupying, it's the prime sleeping location for homeless people. There's no way you can argue Occupy didn't spruce up the place.

[Good Job Bob]

I'm talking about excusing the behavior though.

No-one's excusing the vandalism, but given the wide scope of Occupy it's really remarkable how little vandalism/violence there has been.

[kame-sennin]

From New York to St. Louis to Los Angeles, Occupy Wall Street (OWS) will be buzzing with spring activities throughout the United States. One of its many pending actions is to join forces with the environmental movement to launch Earth Month on March 24. Dubbed "Disrupt Dirty Power," the environmentally-focused occupy movement will support direct actions around the U.S. and abroad to call for both environmental and economic justice. These actions, according to the website www.disruptdirtypower.org, seek to "evict Wall Street polluters," focusing on "dirty banks, big oil, big coal, fracking, uranium." It claims that "the climate can't wait and neither can we." Initiated by an OWS affinity group called 99forEarth, the effort has been joined by various environmental groups. "The Disrupt Dirty Power campaign was inspired by the fact that political interests supersede what is best for the public," OWS organizer Will Jesse said. "Big oil and big coal dictate what happens. It is important to do personal things, but that is not enough. We need to pressure politicians and corporations to change how they do things. We need a mass movement to do that," he added. The actions will start at the United Nations, which is scheduled to release a final sustainability report around that time. The goal is to connect the dots between the big banks funding fossil fuel corporations, which use their huge profits to hire lobbyists and pay off government officials to write legislation that favors big oil and big coal. "We've been involved with Occupy movements here in the US, and around the world," Phil Aroneanu, a co-founder and US Campaign Director of the large international environmental group 350.org wrote on its website. "From Tahrir to Tulsa, ordinary people are turning out in droves to fight inequality and push for greater democracy. Climate Change is entering into the occupy movement in unprecedented ways, from occupiers joining the Keystone XL campaign last year, to March 24th's Disrupt Dirty Power day of action," Aroneanu wrote. The Keystone campaign successfully mobilized thousands of people to demonstrate outside the White House, over a thousand of whom were arrested. They managed to stop--at least for now--the drilling of a pipeline to take tar sand oil from Canada to the Texas coast. It would wreak havoc not only on the ground but would be a potential catastrophe for the US. water supply, as well as release an immense amount of greenhouse gas emissions. The actions by 350.org and others are examples of the environmental movement taking off its gloves to confront big oil corporations and their governmental allies. The website of 350.org offered a guest post about Earth Month from 99forEarth. This action initiates a new stage in the Occupy movement--joining forces with the grassroots environmental movement and placing the climate crisis at the forefront of the global social movement. The post calls on people "to move your money into community banks and credit unions," because of the extensive environmental damage done by the alliance of big banks and fossil fuel corporations. In addition to personal accounts, this call extends to schools, local businesses, churches, community groups, and government agencies to move their funds. It seeks to mobilize the 99% to stop investing in dirty power and "pull the plug on banks that do." "We have been involved with 99forEarth since it was conceptualized a few months ago," said Aroneanu in a phone interview. "We see government corruption as endemic. We need to take a systems approach, as Occupy does, and take it head on. Many of our volunteers have been involved with Occupy." In the Washington, D.C. area, 350.org will collaborate with Occupy in an End Power Madness regional action targeting Dominion Energy, a public utility that monopolizes the area and generates electricity from coal. "We plan to bring 300 to 500 people to surround Dominion in Richmond, Virginia. They use underhanded tactics, like banks do, to block environmental legislation." 350.org has organized over 15,000 community-based actions in 188 countries, according to Aroneanu. "We share the idea with Occupy that we need to get people into the streets and hold corporations accountable for the corruption that is going on in government," he said. 350.org plans to take on the $20 billion dollar subsidy that fossil fuel corporations receive from the federal government in future actions. Among Dirty Power's targets are Wells Fargo, Exxon Mobil, Peabody Coal, Alta Natural Resource, Citi, Chase, PB and Bank of America. Expected participants in New York include college students from Tennessee and elsewhere. In addition to the New York action, at least a dozen other places already have signed on to the campaign: · Occupy Portland's Environment Group will offer a walking tour of the city's worse environmental offenders. · Occupy London's Environmental Action Group is holding March 23 march from St. Paul's Cathedral to make the connection between corrupt government and dirty power. · Vancouver's No to Endbridge will be a March 26 action in coordination with First Nation peoples against the exploitation of Alberta's Tar Sands. · Vermont's Yankee nuclear power plant will call for a Freeze on Fukishima. · Raleigh, North Carolina will host a March 31 Conference for the Abolition of Mountaintop Removal. · Richmond, Washington will see an action at the Hanford nuclear power plant. · The Moata tribe, in Las Vegas, will travel by foot from their homes to the federal building to shut down the Reid Gardner Coal plant, supported by Occupy Las Vegas. As people hear about it during the month, organizers expect that others will join and develop their own plans. "We hope this will be a model that others pick up. We have no central command for the national actions," organizer Rebecca Manski noted. "As we build the narrative of this movement through our direct action," Manski added, "it is important to bring back the environmental justice message that Occupy started with. Economic justice and environmental justice are inseparable."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shephe...b_1371231.html

[SiteSeer]

aren't the vandals in black some sort of agent provocateurs? state or federal agents who dress up and vandalize property in order to discredit or shame a much larger movement from mainstream sympathies. i know there were similar elements in the greek riots, and there are documented incidents in the us. why not these guys?

[GrizzNKev]

Unrestrained capitalism is the reason global warming is happening. OWS is extremely focused on reigning in capitalism and protecting the environment. I'm not sure how you can separate the two issues.

I'm incapable of understanding how you can combine the two issues. So every wasteful person in their home is an unrestrained capitalist? I don't want to derail the thread so you're probably better off not replying. I just think OWS and their goals aren't the biggest problem we should be focused on solving, especially since a whole lot of it (not all of it, not most of it, but still a whole lot of it) seems to be perpetuated by laziness and dissatisfaction. There are real, fact-based global issues which everyone can contribute to solving. This isn't it.

aren't the vandals in black some sort of agent provocateurs? state or federal agents who dress up and vandalize property in order to discredit or shame a much larger movement from mainstream sympathies. i know there were similar elements in the greek riots, and there are documented incidents in the us. why not these guys?

This exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about. I can't take it seriously.

[theBishop]

aren't the vandals in black some sort of agent provocateurs? state or federal agents who dress up and vandalize property in order to discredit or shame a much larger movement from mainstream sympathies. i know there were similar elements in the greek riots, and there are documented incidents in the us. why not these guys?

There's a history of an anarchist "black bloc" at large protests who hide their face and commit more desctructive action. I don't think anyone can prove they were agent provocateurs in Seattle.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

You have no idea what you're talking about. I was at Dilworth Plaza every day for months and didn't see human waste. Which is pretty incredible considering how many homeless people were being fed and receiving medical treatment.

Yeah, that's why people would always find human excrement all around Dilworth Plaza.

Then there is the sexual assault
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?se...ime&id=8429956

Real "lovely place"

I disagree with both of them but I see a difference between property damage and shooting people.

Their both wrong and that's the important point. It's not like I've condemned one, but northe other. Their both wrong. Degrees, yes, but that doesn't change the fundamental fact their wrong.

I'm incapable of understanding how you can combine the two issues. So every wasteful person in their home is an unrestrained capitalist?

Soviet Union NEVER Polluted!

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shephe...b_1371231.html

· Vermont's Yankee nuclear power plant will call for a Freeze on Fukishima.

Idiots. Lets burn some more coal!


Also I I don't think the power plant is planning to give a speech.

[theBishop]

Yeah, that's why people would always find human excrement all around Dilworth Plaza. Then there is the sexual assault http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?se...ime&id=8429956

Yes, that was the one ugly event in a 2 month period in a community of more than 300 tents clustered together in front of city hall. And there's no evidence that an occupier was responsible.

If you read your own goddamn article, you would have see this:

Officials say the Occupy Philly movement has been peaceful so far. Incidents of petty crimes, sex assaults and violence have been reported in other cities, but not much in Philadelphia.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Yes, that was the one ugly event in a 2 month period in a community of more than 300 tents clustered together in front of city hall. And there's no evidence that an occupier was responsible.

Yeah, but your shanty town still created an environment that allowed it to happen.

You helped waste tons of the city of Philadelphia's tax resources, you still owe the people of Philadelphia for the human waste and financial waste you caused.

If you read your own goddamn article, you would have see this:

Didn't actually say that there was none, perhaps you should read it. Also keep in mind that Occupy Philly never had any real support and was viewed as a joke but pretty much everyone in the city.

[theBishop]

Yeah, but your shanty town still created an environment that allowed it to happen.

Do you have any clue how many rapes occur in a 2 month period in Philadelphia? Who created that environment?

You helped waste tons of the city of Philadelphia's tax resources, you still owe the people of Philadelphia for the human waste and financial waste you caused.

What kind of country do you think you're living in right now? This is an ongoing economic collapse. The powerful will be happy to let the poor and working class pay for it. You can't pretend it's a natural business cycle. The decisions being made (including last weeks' decision to close 40 public schools) are political, and Occupy is a political action of resistance. Excuse me if I don't get upset about your pee-pee anecdodes.

Didn't actually say that there was none, perhaps you should read it.

You got owned.

[kame-sennin]

aren't the vandals in black some sort of agent provocateurs? state or federal agents who dress up and vandalize property in order to discredit or shame a much larger movement from mainstream sympathies. i know there were similar elements in the greek riots, and there are documented incidents in the us. why not these guys?

Some are, some aren't. I read an article written by someone who has used black block tactics at protests. I didn't agree with a lot of it, but I learned things I didn't know about BB. Here are some excerpts:

In response to “The Cancer in Occupy,” by Chris Hedges.

I am writing this on the premise that you are a well-meaning person who wishes Occupy Wall Street to succeed. I am also writing as someone who was deeply involved in the early stages of planning Occupy in New York.

I am also an anarchist who has participated in many Black Blocs. While I have never personally engaged in acts of property destruction, I have on more than one occasion taken part in Blocs where property damage has occurred. (I have taken part in even more Blocs that did not engage in such tactics. It is a common fallacy that this is what Black Blocs are all about. It isn’t.)

I was hardly the only Black Bloc veteran who took part in planning the initial strategy for Occupy Wall Street. In fact, anarchists like myself were the real core of the group that came up with the idea of occupying Zuccotti Park, the “99%” slogan, the General Assembly process, and, in fact, who collectively decided that we would adopt a strategy of Gandhian non-violence and eschew acts of property damage. Many of us had taken part in Black Blocs. We just didn’t feel that was an appropriate tactic for the situation we were in.

This is why I feel compelled to respond to your statement “The Cancer in Occupy.” This statement is not only factually inaccurate, it is quite literally dangerous. This is the sort of misinformation that really can get people killed. In fact, it is far more likely to do so, in my estimation, than anything done by any black-clad teenager throwing rocks.

Let me just lay out a few initial facts:

1. Black Bloc is a tactic, not a group. It is a tactic where activists don masks and black clothing (originally leather jackets in Germany, later, hoodies in America), as a gesture of anonymity, solidarity, and to indicate to others that they are prepared, if the situation calls for it, for militant action. The very nature of the tactic belies the accusation that they are trying to hijack a movement and endanger others. One of the ideas of having a Black Bloc is that everyone who comes to a protest should know where the people likely to engage in militant action are, and thus easily be able to avoid it if that’s what they wish to do.

2. Black Blocs do not represent any specific ideological, or for that matter anti-ideological position. Black Blocs have tended in the past to be made up primarily of anarchists but most contain participants whose politics vary from Maoism to Social Democracy. They are not united by ideology, or lack of ideology, but merely a common feeling that creating a bloc of people with explicitly revolutionary politics and ready to confront the forces of the order through more militant tactics if required, is, on the particular occasion when they assemble, a useful thing to do. It follows one can no more speak of “Black Bloc Anarchists,” as a group with an identifiable ideology, than one can speak of “Sign-Carrying Anarchists” or “Mic-Checking Anarchists.”

...

As one of the authors of the original Gandhian strategy, I can recall how well aware we were, when we framed this strategy, that we were taking an enormous risk. Gandhian strategies have not historically worked in the US; in fact, they haven’t really worked on a mass scale since the civil rights movement. This is because the US media is simply constitutionally incapable of reporting acts of police repression as “violence.” (One reason the civil rights movement was an exception is so many Americans at the time didn’t view the Deep South as part of the same country.) Many of the young men and women who formed the famous Black Bloc in Seattle were in fact eco-activists who had been involved in tree-sits and forest defense lock-downs that operated on purely Gandhian principles—only to find that in the US of the 1990s, non-violent protesters could be brutalized, tortured (have pepper spray directly rubbed in their eyes), or even killed, without serious objection from the national media. So they turned to other tactics. We knew all this. We decided it was worth the risk.

However, we are also aware that when the repression begins, some will break ranks and respond with greater militancy. Even if this doesn’t happen in a systematic and organized fashion, some violent acts will take place. You write that Black Bloc’ers smashed up a “locally owned coffee shop”; I doubted this when I read it, since most Black Blocs agree on a strict policy of not damaging owner-operated enterprises, and I now find in Susie Cagle’s response to your article that, in fact, it was a chain coffee shop, and the property destruction was carried out by someone not in black. But still, you’re right: A few such incidents will inevitably occur.

The question is how one responds.

If the police decide to attack a group of protesters, they will claim to have been provoked, and the media will repeat whatever the police say, no matter how implausible, as the basic initial facts of what happened. This will happen whether or not anyone at the protest does anything that can be remotely described as violence. Many police claims will be obviously ridiculous – as at the recent Oakland march where police accused participants of throwing “improvised explosive devices”—but no matter how many times the police lie about such matters, the national media will still report their claims as true, and it will be up to protesters to provide evidence to the contrary. Sometimes, with the help of social media, we can demonstrate that particular police attacks were absolutely unjustified, as with the famous Tony Bologna pepper-spray incident. But we cannot by definition prove all police attacks were unjustified, even all attacks at one particular march; it’s simply physically impossible to film every thing that happens from every possible angle all the time. Therefore we can expect that whatever we do, the media will dutifully report “protesters engaged in clashes with police” rather than “police attacked non-violent protesters.” What’s more, when someone does throw back a tear-gas canister, or toss a bottle, or even spray-paint something, we can assume that act will be employed as retroactive justification for whatever police violence occurred before the act took place.

All this will be true whether or not a Black Bloc is present.

***

These are not hypothetical questions. Every major movement of mass non-violent civil disobedience has had to grapple with them in one form or another. How inclusive should you be with those who have different ideas about what tactics are appropriate? What do you do about those who go beyond what most people consider acceptable limits? What do you do when the government and its media allies hold up their actions as justification—even retroactive justification—for violent and repressive acts?

Successful movements have understood that it’s absolutely essential not to fall into the trap set out by the authorities and spend one’s time condemning and attempting to police other activists. One makes one’s own principles clear. One expresses what solidarity one can with others who share the same struggle, and if one cannot, tries one’s best to ignore or avoid them, but above all, one keeps the focus on the actual source of violence, without doing or saying anything that might seem to justify that violence because of tactical disagreements you have with fellow activists.

I remember my surprise and amusement, the first time I met activists from the April 6 Youth Movement from Egypt, when the issue of non-violence came up. “Of course we were non-violent,” said one of the original organizers, a young man of liberal politics who actually worked at a bank. “No one ever used firearms, or anything like that. We never did anything more militant than throwing rocks!”

Here was a man who understood what it takes to win a non-violent revolution! He knew that if the police start aiming tear-gas canisters directly at people’s heads, beating them with truncheons, arresting and torturing people, and you have thousands of protesters, then some of them will fight back. There’s no way to absolutely prevent this. The appropriate response is to keep reminding everyone of the violence of the state authorities, and never, ever, start writing long denunciations of fellow activists, claiming they are part of an insane fanatic malevolent cabal. (Even though I am quite sure that if a hypothetical Egyptian activist had wanted to make a case that, say, violent Salafis, or even Trotskyists, were trying to subvert the revolution, and adopted standards of evidence as broad as yours, looking around for inflammatory statements wherever they could find them and pretending they were typical of everyone who threw a rock, they could easily have made a case.) This is why most of us are aware that Mubarak’s regime attacked non-violent protesters, and are not aware that many responded by throwing rocks.

Egyptian activists, in other words, understood what playing into the hands of the police really means.

Actually, why limit ourselves to Egypt? Since we are talking about Gandhian tactics here, why not consider the case of Gandhi himself? He had to deal with what to say about people who went much further than rock-throwing (even though Egyptians throwing rocks at police were already going much further than any US Black Bloc has). Gandhi was part of a very broad anti-colonial movement that included elements that actually were using firearms, in fact, elements engaged in outright terrorism. He first began to frame his own strategy of mass non-violent civil resistance in response to a debate over the act of an Indian nationalist who walked into the office of a British official and shot him five times in the face, killing him instantly. Gandhi made it clear that while he was opposed to murder under any circumstances, he also refused to denounce the murderer. This was a man who was trying to do the right thing, to act against an historical injustice, but did it in the wrong way because he was “drunk with a mad idea.”

Over the course of the next 40 years, Gandhi and his movement were regularly denounced in the media, just as non-violent anarchists are also always denounced in the media (and I might remark here that while not an anarchist himself, Gandhi was strongly influenced by anarchists like Kropotkin and Tolstoy), as a mere front for more violent, terroristic elements, with whom he was said to be secretly collaborating. He was regularly challenged to prove his non-violent credentials by assisting the authorities in suppressing such elements. Here Gandhi remained resolute. It is always morally superior, he insisted, to oppose injustice through non-violent means than through violent means. However, to oppose injustice through violent means is still morally superior to not doing anything to oppose injustice at all.

And Gandhi was talking about people who were blowing up trains, or assassinating government officials. Not damaging windows or spray-painting rude things about the police.

http://nplusonemag.com/concerning-th...t-peace-police

[theBishop]

Some are, some aren't. I read an article written by someone who has used black block tactics at protests. I didn't agree with all of it, but I learned there was a lot I didn't know about BB. Here are some excerpts:

I have a lot of respect for Chris Hedges, and I can't deny that there is a "Black Bloc" element within certain occupations. But he dredged this issue up months after the Homeland Security orchestrated crackdown of the occupations. There were no reports of "black blocs" before Hedges wrote the article, tailor made to be blown out of proportion by the hysterical right-wing.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Do you have any clue how many rapes occur in a 2 month period in Philadelphia? Who created that environment?

Who created the one with abysmal health standards, a sexual assault, and homeless fights breaking out?

What kind of country do you think you're living in right now? This is an ongoing economic collapse. The powerful will be happy to let the poor and working class pay for it. You can't pretend it's a natural business cycle. The decisions being made (including last weeks' decision to [close 40 public schools[/url]) are political, and Occupy is a political action of resistance. Excuse me if I don't get upset about your pee-pee anecdodes.

Oh quit with this Marxist nonsense as a way to absolve yourself of your irresponsibility and for waste more than a million dollars of taxpayers money. You owe the people of Philadelphia an apology for your egotistical behavior and waste of resources.
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/201...-at-7-figures/

You got owned.

Don't think so, I see you're ignore the fact that you only had 300 people vs other cities and were considered a massive joke by everyone in the city.

I have a lot of respect for Chris Hedges, and I can't deny that there is a "Black Bloc" element within certain occupations. But he dredged this issue up months after the Homeland Security orchestrated crackdown of the occupations. There were no reports of "black blocs" before Hedges wrote the article, tailor made to be blown out of proportion by the hysterical right-wing.

Buying tin foil in bulk?

[kame-sennin]

I'm incapable of understanding how you can combine the two issues. So every wasteful person in their home is an unrestrained capitalist? I don't want to derail the thread so you're probably better off not replying. I just think OWS and their goals aren't the biggest problem we should be focused on solving, especially since a whole lot of it (not all of it, not most of it, but still a whole lot of it) seems to be perpetuated by laziness and dissatisfaction. There are real, fact-based global issues which everyone can contribute to solving. This isn't it.

You don't understand how oil companies are a threat to the environment? From the link I posted above:

Dubbed "Disrupt Dirty Power," the environmentally-focused occupy movement will support direct actions around the U.S. and abroad to call for both environmental and economic justice. These actions, according to the website www.disruptdirtypower.org, seek to "evict Wall Street polluters," focusing on "dirty banks, big oil, big coal, fracking, uranium." It claims that "the climate can't wait and neither can we." Initiated by an OWS affinity group called 99forEarth, the effort has been joined by various environmental groups.

If you think climate change is a major problem, you can't acuse Occupy of not addressing it. It's a crucial part of their agenda.

I have a lot of respect for Chris Hedges, and I can't deny that there is a "Black Bloc" element within certain occupations. But he dredged this issue up months after the Homeland Security orchestrated crackdown of the occupations. There were no reports of "black blocs" before Hedges wrote the article, tailor made to be blown out of proportion by the hysterical right-wing.

I agree. But the right wing doesn't read Hedges so it's not really a big deal.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

You don't understand how oil companies are a threat to the environment? From the link I posted above:

That link enforced that they know nothing and will act in ways damaging to the environment.

If you think climate change is a major problem, you can't acuse Occupy of not addressing it. It's a crucial part of their agenda.

By fear mongering about nuclear power, you are clearly NOT helping the environment. You are making the situation worse.

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

Occupiers are fucking retards. they have been ridiculous here in the bay area

[MmmSkyscraper]

Pick up that can.

[theBishop]

Oh quit with this Marxist nonsense as a way to absolve yourself of your irresponsibility and for waste more than a million dollars of taxpayers money. You owe the people of Philadelphia an apology for your egotistical behavior and waste of resources. http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/201...-at-7-figures/ Don't think so, I see you're ignore the fact that you only had 300 people vs other cities and were considered a massive joke by everyone in the city.

I said 300 tents, as in permanently camping out. There were thousands of people there. According to FourSquare checkings (hardly scientific I know), Philly was 3rd after NY and DC on the east coast.

Since you're so concerned about precious city resources, I'm sure I'll see you out there protesting the Fifty-Million Dollar Ice Skating Ring being built at City Hall. Who voted on this?

Buying tin foil in bulk?

You're quite desperate.

[theBishop]

I agree. But the right wing doesn't read Hedges so it's not really a big deal.

Whether they read him or not, it was Hedges who put "black bloc" into the lexicon. Neither the hysterical right wing reporting, or supportive left wing reporting talked about it prior to his article on Truthdig.

Honestly, I had to wikipedia "Black Bloc" when I first saw his article.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I said 300 tents, as in permanently camping out. There were thousands of people there. According to FourSquare checkings (hardly scientific I know), Philly was 3rd after NY and DC on the east coast.

Yeah right, it was mostly a ghost town, people checking in from a college class don't really count. There were never thousands there, besides one or two protest marches. You could even get the normal Mumia average ones, which shows how little support it had from the city at large.

Since you're so concerned about precious city resources, I'm sure I'll see you out there protesting the Fifty-Million Dollar Ice Skating Ring being built at City Hall. Who voted on this?

Nice try, but next time don't cite a source showing the city is actually paying only a small amount of the total funds or mentions 800 jobs being created from construction. You wasted what would amount to 20% of the city's total cost.

15 million from the feds, via a Transportation Investment Generating Economic Recovery (TIGER) program grant $15.5 million grant pitched in by Pennsylvania $5 million from the city’s capital program $4.3 million from SEPTA and additional funds from foundation, corporate and private donations

Nice try.

You're quite desperate.

You're extremely paranoid.

[Air]

Walked by there yesterday, had no idea what it was (they were still gathering and setting up). Saw a kid getting man handled by a couple of cops and he was asking for some other dudes name or something. Glad I made it to the train before it got that big though.

[theBishop]

words from my colon

thanks for playing.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

[img]http://media.philly.com/images/600*450/20111122_inq_ajohn22-a.JPG[/img]

Looks pretty damn empty. Thanks for providing proof that shows the tents were to create an allusion of people being there, when that wasn't the case.

Thanks for helping to proof my point about hardly anyone being there.

[Vilam]

You are a joke character rigth? we are on the middle of a worldwide crisis which is gonna be used to strip a lot of rigths from everyone and you are talking about communists and leftists? There is no rigths, lefts or political parties when everyone is being fucked equally in order to support a system which is falling on itself. One would hope that people started to understand this shit, but hey, it's easy to dismiss it and blind yourself I guess.

You sure convinced me, time to go protest with the lazy hippies.

Occupiers are fucking retards. they have been ridiculous here in the bay area

I'll admit, I had a good laugh when a group of them pulled up next to EA because Romney was holding a fundraiser in the hotel across the street.