[SaintMadeOfPlaster]

I'd just like to throw another vote into the "I love the controls" hat.

Took a handful of chapters for them to click, but I can't imagine another way to play a game as frantic as this.

[NinjaBoiX]

In the Eurogamer article, they mention that he commented "dual analog control would've been technically impossible". That's bullshit right? How would mapping aim to a round plastic disc rather than a rectangular screen affect performance? I mean, if you didn't want to do it, that's cool. But don't make up some bullshit reason.

[Boss Doggie]

In the Eurogamer article, they mention that he commented "dual analog control would've been technically impossible". That's bullshit right? How would mapping aim to a round plastic disc rather than a rectangular screen affect performance? I mean, if you didn't want to do it, that's cool. But don't make up some bullshit reason.

It's not just about that though - the gameplay is fast paced and strict. As people mentioned, dual analogs will fail due to being slower and harder to aim precisely.

[AgentOtaku]

Yeah read this last night

....didn't know if should laugh or be pissed.

In the end, I just shook my head and moved-on

[Fabrik]

I got the controls before the ending of the first ground level.
Even my sister who rarely play games and has difficulties with a dual analog setup (She always look at the ground or the roof), found the spining globe concept easy to handle.
The only problem I can see is if you're left-handed. Otherwise, it just means you can't adapt to new things.

[-MB-]

It's not just about that though - the gameplay is fast paced and strict. As people mentioned, dual analogs will fail due to being slower and harder to aim precisely.

I call BS on that too, the game already allows the inferior circle pad and face button configuration, which is basically the same thing as DA. But shitter because face butons aren't ideal for movement/aiming whatsoever.

[NinjaBoiX]

It's not just about that though - the gameplay is fast paced and strict. As people mentioned, dual analogs will fail due to being slower and harder to aim precisely.

That may well be true. But isn't it a little insulting for him to go, "well you see, it would've been impossible" rather than, "the game would be really hard that way"? I mean, we aren't idiots, but he appears to think we are.

[Boss Doggie]

I call BS on that too, the game already allows the inferior circle pad and face button configuration, which is basically the same thing as DA. But shitter because face butons aren't ideal for movement/aiming whatsoever.

So then it all boils down to them being unable to program it then.

[Riposte]

I actually like this stance over developers bowing to every criticism from people who might just suck at games (which is what I get from many reviews/podcasts).

It's a control method that requires practice. Once mastered it, it's almost perfect.

Indeed. The same is true for most controls, including dual analog stick shooters. I don't think games should get hit for making you having to learn something new, because then it is just begging for homogenization.

(I don't think the controls are perfect though, for multiplayer anyway. Perfectly fine for the slower paced and less chaotic single player. Maybe an interface issue.)

[Meatvillain]

I love Kid Icarus Uprising (one of my favourites of the year so far) but I definitely found it uncomfortable to play throughout, I didn't really play it the way he suggests, though, so I'll give it a go. That said, I don't think it's a sign of a good control system when half of your audience complains that it's uncomfortable and you need to come out with advice on how to ease those symptoms. As far as I'm concerned, a good control scheme should feel natural and not be distracting throughout the entirety of the game.

I've never dedicated much time to complaining about Kid Icarus's controls, though, they are what they are and the game is pretty incredible in spite of them.

[NinjaBoiX]

So then it all boils down to them being unable to program it then.

Are you seriously suggesting they managed to draw the art, code the game, come up with a score, write the script, optimise and squash bugs, and lets not forget, add alternate aiming scheme; but mapping aim to the right stick instead of the buttons or screen was beyond them? It simply can't be true, I don't understand how it can be. It's just like using a racing wheel instead of a pad, the framerate doesn't suddenly take a dive does it?

[Ushojax]

I don't have any problem with the controls. I get cramp in my right hand with every 3DS game, the console just isn't very nice to hold.

[Nome]

You know what wouldn't require time to master? A dual analogue setup. Just give people the option to use it, and people will use what they want. Edit: I'm left handed, so playing this game on a 3DS a while back was about as far from fun as it could get.

Using a stylus is much more intuitive I think. As a PC gamer I can't play any console/dual-stick shooters.

[Thoraxes]

Using a stylus is much more intuitive I think. As a PC gamer I can't play any console/dual-stick shooters.

Same.

[WhyMe6]

Twin sticks would be way too slow for this game - he's right. It's so damn all-over-the-place and fast-paced. After the adjustment period I love the controls! They really feel better the more you get into the game and you play through the more difficult levels.

It also would have worked wonderfully with the Wii Remote, had it been on a console.

[beril]

I haven't played the game but I agree with his reasoning

Allowing people to use a shitty old control scheme because of habit would only result in noone bothering to learn the proper way to play and likely get a worse experience

[NinjaBoiX]

Twin sticks would be way too slow for this game - he's right.

No, he said "it would've been technically impossible", not, "it wouldn't have suited the speed of the game." Whatever decision a designer makes regarding their game is cool, it's their baby. But don't lie about a certain aspect being implemented because the alternative "isn't technically possible." It's insulting that he assumes we are so poorly informed as consumers, to believe that moving a plastic disc is more technically demanding than moving a plastic stylus.

[Kokonoe]

I haven't played the game but I agree with his reasoning Allowing people to use a shitty old control scheme because of habit would only result in noone bothering to learn the proper way to play and likely get a worse experience

Then why is there a option to use the buttons in the same way as a right stick?

[Hero]

This is the guy that went out of his way to make sure that Brawl supported Wii-mote, Wii-mote + chuck, Classic Controller and Gamecube controller. You honestly think he left out dual circle pad controls just to be a dick?

[NinjaBoiX]

This is the guy that went out of his way to make sure that Brawl supported Wii-mote, Wii-mote + chuck, Classic Controller and Gamecube controller. You honestly think he left out dual circle pad controls just to be a dick?

Can you explain to me how on earth it would be impossible to use the right stick? I mean, a piece of plastic, be it a screen, set of buttons, a stick, whatever; but a piece of plastic used as controls is simply movements converted into digital inputs. How would it matter what form said plastic takes? It's still just a means to transform human input into a digital command.

As I say, whatever his reasons for the omission, that's his right. But don't lie about it, it does your reputation no good, and belittles your audience. It's not cool.

[bigdude1]

im glad he didnt incorporate the circle pad pro, he would have had to slow down gameplay or add auto aim to accommodate it.

i honestly do think people are doing it wrong. i hold the system with 2 hands while playing it, it seems a lot of people cant figure it out

[-MB-]

im glad he didnt incorporate the circle pad pro, he would have had to slow down gameplay or add auto aim to accommodate it. i honestly do think people are doing it wrong. i hold the system with 2 hands while playing it, it seems a lot of people cant figure it out

Again that's BS, the game already has circle pad and face buttons as a control scheme, which is basically the same thing but worse.

[OnimaruXLR]

Kind of hilarious that Nintendo fans defending KI from the brittle wrist brigade are now in the same position that PC gamer were when they were when trying to point out why console FPS are terrible compared to that sweet sweet mouse and keyboard action

I don't think the game would work nearly as well with two sticks. That doesn't make the weird ass control setup IDEAL (more the ergonomics of the system than an issue with the actual aiming system of the game) nor does it make the dual stick setup IMPOSSIBLE. But it would be a tangibly different game, one that's a lot less fast paced and exciting, as a result.

What I'm curious about is what this will mean for the Wii U. If the tablet is responsive enough, you could theoretically set it in your lap and control regular FPSes KI: Uprising style i.e. pointer+stick style. Wii U as the secret dark horse best FPS console...?

[bigdude1]

Again that's BS, the game already has circle pad and face buttons as a control scheme, which is basically the same thing but worse.

yeah, and i never played it with that, cause it sucks.


but it would still not work with the slide pad addition either. everything is just too fast

[-MB-]

yeah, and i never played it with that, cause it sucks. but it would still not work with the slide pad addition either. everything is just too fast

Yet they included the inferior scheme and didn't bother with the CPP DA.
And I think there are a few who did manage to use that method and finish the game, so DA would just increase the potential userbase and allow more people to enjoy the game.

[NinjaBoiX]

yeah, and i never played it with that, cause it sucks. but it would still not work with the slide pad addition either. everything is just too fast

You are missing the point. It doesn't matter if it wouldn't work with the speed of the game, wether he just didn't like the look of it, whatever decision he made is cool, it's his game.

It's the fact he made up some bullshit about it being "technically impossible", as if we are all stupid enough to believe him. I would have a lot more respect for him if he just said, "it wasn't right for the game".

Then again, I would've had even more respect, if he just put it in and let us decide for ourselves. But to not only deny us the option, but to come up with a feeble lie to hide behind, I mean, WTF?

[vanty]

Using a stylus is much more intuitive I think. As a PC gamer I can't play any console/dual-stick shooters.

I also like these stylus controls, have been playing FPS on PC for years and find dual-analog controls almost impossible to use. Only game I've been remotely comfortable using dual analog with is Just Cause 2, since it had a staggering amount of auto-aim and shooting is only a small part of the game. So basically the opposite of Kid Icarus.

[Nocturnowl]

To move onto the old dual analogue point, one would assume if the game did have dual analogue the second stick would be used as camera/cursor movement right? well when Sakurai says this wouldn't work i'm thinking he has a point.

The camera in Kid Icarus works differently to how you might think, you don't just move the cursor to the edge of the screen, you have to spin the camera by flicking the touch screen and then tapping the screen to halt the camera movement, seems initially unwieldy but when you tinker with the options and get used to it you've got yourself a very quick camera needed for how frantic things get on higher difficulties. Now how this would be replicated with an analogue stick, well I don't think it could be done, especially if the same stick/nub was being used to move the aiming cursor (actually BGBW mentioned something to this effect back on the first page, you'd probably need 3 sticks to truly get this system working).
I hardly consider this having a control scheme forced upon you, as far as customization goes there are numerous options to tinker with in order to help provide a good experience suited to your tastes, but that's all ignored because there isn't dual analogue it seems.

[Crewnh]

"The game is too fast for DA" is such a dumb argument for why it shouldnt be an option. Why is ABXY even an option when its the same thing but feels worse?

[NinjaBoiX]

I get why he omitted it. I just don't get the pointless lie, just explain that the game would be incredibly awkward, so you didn't want to waste resources. Not (these guys will believe any old shite "um yeah, well you see, it was technically impossible to run the analog nub drivers behind the scenes, as they take up precious processing cycles....or something...")

[UncleSporky]

Err no

Err yes, Captain Drive-by.

[dwu8991]

needs the jumping double tap that metroid hunters used

also the bounding box needs to be smaller

[Chopper]

All this talk of dual-analogue in my Kid Icarus offends me deeply. If you are right-handed, the touchscreen controls are perfect.

[-MB-]

All this talk of dual-analogue in my Kid Icarus offends me deeply. If you are right-handed, the touchscreen controls are perfect.

Only theyre not for quite a few people.
And it offends me more that people tell me to suck it up and deal with the controls than it could
possibly offend u some people want more options that don't really affect you anyway.

[Thunderbear]

The controls ruined this game for me. It was my most anticipated 3DS game after Kingdom Hearts and even though I've completed it, I really hated the way I had to play it. It's such a shame that one aspect of the game should ruin it so completely.

Only theyre not for quite a few people. And it offends me more that people tell me to suck it up and deal with the controls than it could possibly offend u some people want more options that don't really affect you anyway.

This is well said and in the end, the people who defend the controls seem to be in the minority if you look at the reaction to the game when it came out but it should be clear to most people that at least having the option of dual analogue control would not have hurt anyone but rather would have pleased a lot of people like me and -MB-.

[Boss Doggie]

Are you seriously suggesting they managed to draw the art, code the game, come up with a score, write the script, optimise and squash bugs, and lets not forget, add alternate aiming scheme; but mapping aim to the right stick instead of the buttons or screen was beyond them? It simply can't be true, I don't understand how it can be. It's just like using a racing wheel instead of a pad, the framerate doesn't suddenly take a dive does it?

Don't look at me though, that's what Sakurai said in the interview.

But as people said, possibility of patch to palate the people seems to be in order.

[rpmurphy]

Yes, I decided I didn't want smudge my screen just to play the game. Yes of course I played with the settings.

I haven't smudged the bottom screen in any noticible way since I started using it over a month ago.

[lazybones18]

Using the DS thumb strap makes things so much easier

[Cygnus X-1]

No, YOU are doing it wrong.

The developer of the game playing his own game wrong? :lol

[Thunder Monkey]

Every single game is designed around the limitations of the platform they are made for.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Especially with new input devices. The birth pains are always huge. There's always hundreds of really crappy control schemes for every good one. The vast majority of N64/PSX era games take more than a few moments to acclimate yourself to. They tended to feel clunky and unwieldy.

Kinect, motion controllers, and touch interfaces are the new analog. There's no telling how long it will take for some of these inputs to find their niche. Touch is already there honestly. Dozens of games are being designed around it's strengths, but as in the case of KI it isn't always perfect for everyone.

Implementing some of these newer inputs into "traditional" games will have missteps. But someone will come along and find a good use for them. At which point everyone will copy until stale.

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

It's a control method that requires practice. Once mastered it, it's almost perfect.

The problem is, many gamers today lack patience and expect controls to fit like a glove immediately after booting up the game.

That's nice and all that but nothing wrong with a learning curve or ambitious control scheme.

[ShinUltramanJ]

What about the Circle Pad Pro? That is an option.

An option you have to purchase, that's in very limited quantities at one retailer.

Personally I think the controls are good for this type of game, but just because I enjoy them doesn't make everyone else's complaints invalid.

Even though I can tough it out, I'm not afraid to admit that while the controls are a blast in the air, they're a pain in the ass on the ground. The game is also uncomfortable to play for extended periods, and you need to use the stand or hold the system some goofy way to play.

It's by no means perfect, but they're workable if you tolerate them.

[Chopper]

Only theyre not for quite a few people. And it offends me more that people tell me to suck it up and deal with the controls than it could possibly offend u some people want more options that don't really affect you anyway.

Well...It offends me that you take offense from people telling you to suck it up. The controls take getting used to, but there are fully comprehensive sensitivity settings for you to customize them! And the benefits of spending time with the game and adapting to an unusual control method far outweigh those of getting frustrated at the preset controls, suggesting they're broken and giving up.

And whilst I appreciate that extra options are generally a good thing, this game simply would not work as a dual-stick shooter. Especially at the higher intensity levels.

[Effect]

I guess I'll say my piece. The controls do having a learning curve but it isn't long. Two or three stages. By then you should be used to the and just get better at them the more you play. They're fine in the end. You just have to learn them. Getting a comfortable position holding the 3DS is the big thing I think. Sitting it on your lap, against your leg, using the stand (not required at all but just an option), holding it in the air, etc. It's really a personal issue at that point and can vary depending on your mood I feel.

Now if a person simply can't get used to it then fine. Not everyone will get used to everything. While I wish they could enjoy the game perhaps they should try something else. If someone wants similar action I would strongly suggest Sin and Punishment 2. Its ground parts aren't that great (usually when you move toward the ground you can run or stand still to shoot) but the rest is excellent and more people should have played it. Still that doesn't mean the controls are horrible though. Dual analog simply wouldn't work in the end. The cursor and the camera are an issue without the globe flick. They aren't going to lock the cursor and camera together. Even if you could figure that out (solution wouldn't be good) you'd still wouldn't be able to keep up with the frantic pace of the combat at the higher intensity levels. Hell even the lower ones would provide a good challenge or be impossible. There is no way you'd be accurate enough.

Perhaps I've played to many Nintendo systems but getting used to a new control scheme isn't hard for me or something that would make me upset. The NES/SNES controller to the N64 controller to the GameCube controller and then to the Wii and DS/3DS control setups. Kid Icarus control scheme is just par for the course I feel. I see nothing wrong with learning how to play a game.

[Holy Order Sol]

Your game required a friggin' stand to be bundled with it.

I've never used that thing.

[NinjaBoiX]

Well...It offends me that you take offense from people telling you to suck it up. The controls take getting used to, but there are fully comprehensive sensitivity settings for you to customize them! And the benefits of spending time with the game and adapting to an unusual control method far outweigh those of getting frustrated at the preset controls, suggesting they're broken and giving up. And whilst I appreciate that extra options are generally a good thing, this game simply would not work as a dual-stick shooter. Especially at the higher intensity levels.

It blatantly would work. OK, maybe not quite as well, but to say "this game simply wouldn't work as a dual stick shooter" is factually incorrect. There is absolutely no reason to think it wouldn't.

I hear what you're saying, you are better off with the default scheme, but that should be my decision.

[Chopper]

It blatantly would work. OK, maybe not quite as well, but to say "this game simply wouldn't work as a dual stick shooter" is factually incorrect. There is absolutely no reason to think it wouldn't.

It would be shit. And it wouldn't be Kid Icarus.

[Crewnh]

Again, if it wont work, why did they bother including ABXY movement? Thats even more imprecise than DA and touch screen. Like seriously, how does it even hurt you to consider the option being there? Offended, really?

[RawkHawk2010]

For everyone saying dual-analog would be "technically impossible":

1. Go to control options.
2. Set movement to ABXY.
3. Set aiming to the left circle pad.

...there you go. And I'm pretty sure you can also move with the d-pad and aim with the right circle pad on the CPP. Hey, look! At least two shitty versions of dual-analog but not the one that would actually be good!

[Maedhros]

To move onto the old dual analogue point, one would assume if the game did have dual analogue the second stick would be used as camera/cursor movement right? well when Sakurai says this wouldn't work i'm thinking he has a point.

So why did they offer aiming with A, B, X, Y?

It would be shit. And it wouldn't be Kid Icarus.

See above.