[smug]

XOBX $99 & LIVE GOLD WITH NU-ADDS??? Fuck, count me in biznatches!!!!!!!!!!

NU-ADDS!!! GOTTA GET EM ALL!!!!!!!

[Captain Tuttle]

XOBX $99 & LIVE GOLD WITH NU-ADDS??? Fuck, count me in biznatches!!!!!!!!!! NU-ADDS!!! GOTTA GET EM ALL!!!!!!!

clever

[KageMaru]

clever

With how some people post around here, he'll fit right in.

[elcranky]

But at least it's a service, not not an arbitrary pay wall to use things you've already paid for (games you're hosting on your own system and network connection, apps developed by third parties and services you are paying for directly). So it's the difference between getting a large hardware discount (often on cutting edge smart phones) with an actual service you need and would pay for anyway, or getting a meager hardware discount (on a 7 year old system that is long overdue for a real price cut anyway) with a "service" you may or may not want or need, the "value" of which is a carefully cultivated fiction.

Are you folks actually deluded enough to believe the nonsense that you spout? Live is a phenominal value. MP gaming is just the door opener. All of the value is elsewhere as clearly demonstrated by the recent usage stats.

[elcranky]

Shady business practices like these are why I avoid supporting Microsoft whenever possible.

LOL, talk about clueless. MS is LOSING MONEY on this deal compared to individually purchased items. Now, the increase in demand and share makes it a great business decision. However, it is extremely consumer friendly and basically the complete opposite of shady.

[Captain Tuttle]

Are you folks actually deluded enough to believe the nonsense that you spout? Live is a phenominal value. MP gaming is just the door opener. All of the value is elsewhere as clearly demonstrated by the recent usage stats.

hhhhmmmmm...


I've had Live since the Xbox

[elcranky]

This isn't a loan, it is subsidized hardware like a cell phone.

It is a loan for a bundle of assets and services. That loan has an implied interest rate less than 10%, which is far less than the average credid card rate available to the targets of this promotion. That rate is also probably less than MS's WAC, which if you don't know what that means then you aren't qualified to speak on this topic. Unlike cell phones, the services portion of the deal changes rates / ends at the end of the 2 yr period. Live will go back to $5/month.

[bigtroyjon]

It is a loan for a bundle of assets and services. That loan has an implied interest rate less than 10%, which is far less than the average credid card rate available to the targets of this promotion. That rate is also probably less than MS's WAC, which if you don't know what that means then you aren't qualified to speak on this topic. Unlike cell phones, the services portion of the deal changes rates / ends at the end of the 2 yr period. Live will go back to $5/month.

It's not a loan. You are getting discounted hardware in return for buying a service for 2 years.

And I have no idea why you would think Live would go back to 5 a month when the current monthly rate is currently $10.

[Jake Tower]

And I have no idea why you would think Live would go back to 5 a month when the current monthly rate is currently $10.

$60/12months = $5/month

Less than that if you're smart and buy Gold cards on amazon.

[Brad Grenz]

Are you folks actually deluded enough to believe the nonsense that you spout? Live is a phenominal value. MP gaming is just the door opener. All of the value is elsewhere as clearly demonstrated by the recent usage stats.

MS is charging for things that cost nothing on literally every single other platform. No matter how much you like and use the service, it is a poor value, a blatant cash grab and, frankly, unscrupulous. I'm not sure why you think paying in perpetuity for MS to stop actively blocking your access to services you are paying for, games you've paid for on hardware you've paid for with an internet connection you've paid for constitutes anything resembling "value".

The things people like about Live have nothing to do with the fact they charge for it. If they stopped charging tomorrow the service would be exactly the same and Live would still be a very profitable venture, but with the fees it's basically a fire hose of free money. I know why MS is happy with the arrangement, but there's no way in which it can be considered good for consumers. It may be a "cost of doing business" for gamers in the current climate, but only in the way that paying protection money to a gang or bribing corrupt officials in the third world is a "cost of doing business" in other arenas. There's no reason to pretend like that's A-OK.

[Speedymanic]

(IP addresses that you can connect to without XBL Gold)/(IP Addresses you can connect to with XBL Gold) < 0.1% Let's see you spin this.

O_o

I can't spin stupid, sorry.

$150-200 consoles without a contract?

360 isn't available without a contract?

[elcranky]

MS is charging for things that cost nothing on literally every single other platform. No matter how much you like and use the service, it is a poor value, a blatant cash grab and, frankly, unscrupulous. I'm not sure why you think paying in perpetuity for MS to stop actively blocking your access to services you are paying for, games you've paid for on hardware you've paid for with an internet connection you've paid for constitutes anything resembling "value". The things people like about Live have nothing to do with the fact they charge for it. If they stopped charging tomorrow the service would be exactly the same and Live would still be a very profitable venture, but with the fees it's basically a fire hose of free money. I know why MS is happy with the arrangement, but there's no way in which it can be considered good for consumers. It may be a "cost of doing business" for gamers in the current climate, but only in the way that paying protection money to a gang or bribing corrupt officials in the third world is a "cost of doing business" in other arenas. There's no reason to pretend like that's A-OK.

Sigh, the fees pay for innovation. I am happy to about 1/2 the cost of dinner for 1 at decent restaurant as long as MS provides superior service, convenience and innovaton.

[Speedymanic]

Sigh, the fees pay for innovation. I am happy to about 1/2 the cost of dinner for 1 at decent restaurant as long as MS provides superior service, convenience and innovaton.

Pretty much. Want MS to drop the charge or make it more value for money? hope that Sony and Ninty bring their A game when it comes to online next gen.

I suspect they won't and MS will be the only one to evolve their service.

[bigtroyjon]

$60/12months = $5/month Less than that if you're smart and buy Gold cards on amazon.

The monthly fee is $10. If somebody is paying monthly for it, they likely aren't going to just magically pay for a year the minute their contract is up considering the people who would do this in the first place are the ones who can't afford the larger up front cost.

[OldJadedGamer]

Pretty much. Want MS to drop the charge or make it more value for money? hope that Sony and Ninty bring their A game when it comes to online next gen. I suspect they won't and MS will be the only one to evolve their service.

Sony will evolve their service of course but hopefully they at least match current XBL. Even the Vita that just came out can't match so hopefully a more powerful PS4 does. If Sony can match these features and still remain free is another question though.

[ShinUltramanJ]

Are you folks actually deluded enough to believe the nonsense that you spout? Live is a phenominal value. MP gaming is just the door opener. All of the value is elsewhere as clearly demonstrated by the recent usage stats.

Hahahahahaha! Phenominal value?!! Yeah, if you live under a rock and don't have access to all of the "value" that's available for free everywhere else.

I'm amazed that Microsoft has managed to brainwash people into thinking they're really providing something special for their money. Not only, but they've raised the price so you guys can fund their moneyhats.

[Speedymanic]

Sony will evolve their service of course but hopefully they at least match current XBL. Even the Vita that just came out can't match so hopefully a more powerful PS4 does. If Sony can match these features and still remain free is another question though.

I honestly don't believe online is as important for Sony as it is for MS. Same goes for Ninty. it doesn't seem to be a big part of either companies strategy.

Saying that, I'm hoping they do evolve their service to match XBL, only when that happens will MS start to sweat and think about either reducing the sub (unlikely) or adding more value through giving away games or having more sales, etc.

[surly]

Hahahahahaha! Phenominal value?!! Yeah, if you live under a rock and don't have access to all of the "value" that's available for free everywhere else. I'm amazed that Microsoft has managed to brainwash people into thinking they're really providing something special for their money. Not only, but they've raised the price so you guys can fund their moneyhats.

The competing free services on other consoles are a big bag of shite and really don't compare to Xbox Live in terms of features and content. The PC is a different matter, but you can't buy a gaming PC for 150 quid.

[ShinUltramanJ]

The competing free services on other consoles are a big bag of shite and really don't compare to Xbox Live in terms of features and content. The PC is a different matter, but you can't buy a gaming PC for 150 quid.

They get me online and playing with friends, which is all I need. I didn't buy an Xbox 360 for Youtube or Bing.

[Speedymanic]

Hahahahahaha! Phenominal value?!! Yeah, if you live under a rock and don't have access to all of the "value" that's available for free everywhere else. I'm amazed that Microsoft has managed to brainwash people into thinking they're really providing something special for their money. Not only, but they've raised the price so you guys can fund their moneyhats.

Best and most stable online service of the three consoles. Also the most easy to use, the most unified, offers the most features, very user friendly, the list goes on.

They get me online and playing with friends, which is all I need. I didn't buy an Xbox 360 for Youtube or Bing.

Yeah, when they aren't down for maintenance, etc.

[surly]

They get me online and playing with friends, which is all I need.

They do, but they both lack features (and consistency of features) compared to Live. I wouldn't want to not have cross-game chat and the party mode for instance, so I only use PSN if a game is exclusive to the PS3 or the 360 version is a steaming turd. If PSN is good enough for you, that's fine, but don't assume it's good enough for me. I think it's shit. The Wii's online system isn't even worth talking about.

[OldJadedGamer]

They get me online and playing with friends, which is all I need. I didn't buy an Xbox 360 for Youtube or Bing.

Yeah, if you just want the occasional barebones online then XBL isn't for you.

[Izayoi]

It's like they're encouraging me to drop consoles completely. What a joke.

[Speedymanic]

It's like they're encouraging me to drop consoles completely. What a joke.

Curious, why is this a joke and why would this further encourage you to abandon consoles completely?

[Izayoi]

Curious, why is this a joke and why would this further encourage you to abandon consoles completely?

Let's just say that I don't like the way consoles are headed toward an all-encompassing subscription-based model. Before long we'll be renting everything, hell, we almost already are. That coupled with long generation cycles (and the awful stagnation of resolution and framerate that come with it) has really turned me off from the idea of "buying" next generation consoles.

[Lyte Edge]

That coupled with long generation cycles

I'm glad we're getting long generation cycles. I'm not interested in spending as much $600 per console every few years. Get some use out them!

(and the awful stagnation of resolution and framerate that come with it) has really turned me off from the idea of "buying" next generation consoles.

Your average TV and monitor are only going to be as high as 1080P anyway. It would be nice to have higher res available for people with monitors that support it, but that's going to be a small amount of users and they're bound to have a good PC already anyway.

[Speedymanic]

Let's just say that I don't like the way consoles are headed toward an all-encompassing subscription-based model. Before long we'll be renting everything, hell, we almost already are. That coupled with long generation cycles (and the awful stagnation of resolution and framerate that come with it) has really turned me off from the idea of "buying" next generation consoles.

Ah. Fair enough. That would worry me as well, but I can't see either Ninty or Sony following them down this path.

We'll see if this takes off to any degree soon enough, but I personally don't see MS extending this to next gen consoles until very late into the cycle for a number of reasons.

[Izayoi]

Your average TV and monitor are only going to be as high as 1080P anyway. It would be nice to have higher res available for people with monitors that support it, but that's going to be a small amount of users and they're bound to have a good PC already anyway.

I seriously doubt we'll get true 1080p next generation. It's likely the first few games will be, and then devs, like they always do, will start cutting corners in order to cram more effects on screen. I wouldn't be surprised if 720p remained the norm next generation, to be honest - which is simply just not good enough. Obviously people are willing to put up with it, though - and so the trend will continue.

[bangai-o]

Let's just say that I don't like the way consoles are headed toward an all-encompassing subscription-based model. Before long we'll be renting everything, hell, we almost already are. That coupled with long generation cycles (and the awful stagnation of resolution and framerate that come with it) has really turned me off from the idea of "buying" next generation consoles.

You actually want to buy new generation consoles every 4 years? Developers that dont have the resources to make a game with uber graphics are turning you off? I dont get it.

[Arpharmd B]

It's obvious MS is testing this to see if it's a viable business move for Durango.

Honestly I'd bite on a 199 Durango 95, feelinging those smooth vibrations with my droogies, + a 15 a month fee for 2 years. For me that's easier pill to swallow than a 499 console.

People are getting way bent out of shape over this. The model makes sense for some people. And if you don't like it then what's stopping you from paying full retail, getting deals on live gold, and saving money? Nothing is. So chill my droogies.


-edit- I know the math's been done but lemme just get this out. 99$ console plus Kinect, + two years of live @ 15 a month... 460$
Retail for 2 years of live, and the same console would be 420$.

Unless I'm failing at math, this is a difference of 40 dollars. Um, that's pretty reasonable "interest payments" of only 40 bucks. Am I missing something as to why people are so upset over this? Seems beyond reasonable to me.

[AlteredBeast]

This is an incredibly good business idea, in my opinion.

[elcranky]

They get me online and playing with friends, which is all I need. I didn't buy an Xbox 360 for Youtube or Bing.

dude online multiplayer got old 15 years ago.

[Eusis]

Pretty much. Want MS to drop the charge or make it more value for money? hope that Sony and Ninty bring their A game when it comes to online next gen. I suspect they won't and MS will be the only one to evolve their service.

I DO think at the least stuff like Netflix, Youtube, especially Facebook and Twitter will be made free next generation. Right now they're coasting off the fact they were the first console to stream Netflix, before everything and your toaster could stream it, and they have a captive audience so they're milking as long as they can. Continuing this into next generation when everyone's replacing consoles will indicate either Microsoft is very stupid, or CONSUMERS are very stupid for throwing that subscription in anyway rather than be sensible and just buy a Roku/Apple TV/whatever if that's all they want XBL for.

To be honest though, I'd probably just keep on with XBL anyway if it weren't for them being assholes and jacking the online options for disabling auto-renewal entirely outside of the areas they're required to by law. Would be a lot more comfortable just getting cards for cheap and putting it in so I'd have it "just in case" if I didn't need to call or fake my address just to do something that damn basic.

[frAntic_Frog]

rent-a-center you would end up paying $1200 bucks for a 300$ machine. This one your paying $39 more.

you get locked into a 2 year contract AND you end up paying $39 MORE?

uhhh......thats not how leases/contracts are supposed to incentivize you to commit.....

[bigtroyjon]

you get locked into a 2 year contract AND you end up paying $39 MORE? uhhh......thats not how leases/contracts are supposed to incentivize you to commit.....

huh? You pay less up front and more over the course of the deal. That exactly how leases and contracts work.

[coldfoot]

dude online multiplayer got old 15 years ago.

So why are you still paying for it?
If all you want is Apps on your TV, get a Roku for the price of 1 year of XBL. You'll also get higher quality picture and audio.
You won't even need a separate box 5 years from now, most TV's now come with that shit built in.

[Brad Grenz]

Sigh, the fees pay for innovation. I am happy to about 1/2 the cost of dinner for 1 at decent restaurant as long as MS provides superior service, convenience and innovaton.

If by "paying for innovation" you mean smoothing over craters in the business unit's balance sheet like the Microsoft Kin, yes, that's exactly what they're doing with the money.

At this point the Live service's only technical advantage (if you don't count efficient advertising delivery) is cross game chat and that's just a hardware limitation. in fact, Vita's features and services shoot right past anything Live is doing. But just on home consoles Sony offered cloud saves first. Sony has supported dedicated servers for larger, reliable matches than 8v8 longer and better. Sony has supported user created content longer and better. PSN isn't hamstrung by a 100 friend limit. Sony supported innovative multi-player modes like in Demon's Souls and Journey that surely violate tons of MS TCRs. Sony also supported things like YouTube integration first.

In fact, I can't think of a single thing MS has done to "innovate" with their paid service since the 360 launched. Being able to watch SyFy webisodes or clips from TMZ is not impressive. HBO Go, EPIX, Crackle, etc, are getting their shit on to as many platforms as they can. Welcome to the Roku 2 years ago... Xbox Live Gold is what it is, and everything else they've been doing, like all the dashboard updates, are for everybody, paid or not, intended to support functionality of an accessory they sell (Kinect), needed to playing catch-up with Sony (cloud saves), or are primarily designed to optimize advertising opportunities or co-market other MS products and services like Windows Phone 7/Windows 8 and Bing. And the general consensus is the dashboard "improvements" lately have mostly been for the worse.

[Izayoi]

You actually want to buy new generation consoles every 4 years?

Yes. Is there something wrong with that? $1000 every 4-5 years isn't exactly a lot... Same upgrade cycle as a PC for me.

Developers that dont have the resources to make a game with uber graphics are turning you off? I dont get it.

Uh, pretty sure that's the opposite of what I said. I lamented the "cram more pretty shit on screen" and instead championed things that any developer can do given the power - high resolutions and solid framerates - both of which are incredibly rare today.

[RPGCrazied]

Drop the subscription and the kinect. Sell the 360 for $99. That would sell like fucking hotcakes. I might have to rebuy one again. Tales of Vesperia, Lost Odyssey mainly. Miss those games.

[Everdred]

You actually want to buy new generation consoles every 4 years? Developers that dont have the resources to make a game with uber graphics are turning you off? I dont get it.

Hell yeah, the original Xbox was the perfect console duration. 5 years max and then I want the new stuff. It helps if the previous generation is backwards compatible with the new stuff but I can live without.

[ShinUltramanJ]

-edit- I know the math's been done but lemme just get this out. 99$ console plus Kinect, + two years of live @ 15 a month... 460$ Retail for 2 years of live, and the same console would be 420$. Unless I'm failing at math, this is a difference of 40 dollars. Um, that's pretty reasonable "interest payments" of only 40 bucks. Am I missing something as to why people are so upset over this? Seems beyond reasonable to me.

Whenever I've seen a thread where the cost of XBL comes into play, I often see the comment that no smart shopper pays $60 for a year of XBL. Smart shoppers supposedly pay 40, so now you're looking at an $80 difference.

[Kogepan]

It's obvious MS is testing this to see if it's a viable business move for Durango. Honestly I'd bite on a 199 Durango 95, feelinging those smooth vibrations with my droogies, + a 15 a month fee for 2 years. For me that's easier pill to swallow than a 499 console. People are getting way bent out of shape over this. The model makes sense for some people. And if you don't like it then what's stopping you from paying full retail, getting deals on live gold, and saving money? Nothing is. So chill my droogies. -edit- I know the math's been done but lemme just get this out. 99$ console plus Kinect, + two years of live @ 15 a month... 460$ Retail for 2 years of live, and the same console would be 420$. Unless I'm failing at math, this is a difference of 40 dollars. Um, that's pretty reasonable "interest payments" of only 40 bucks. Am I missing something as to why people are so upset over this? Seems beyond reasonable to me.

And what happens after two years?

Unless you are planning on only using it for two years its a complete ripoff and worse than the 599 debacle.

[Shiggy]

A much better deal: The 250 GB 360 system for 99€ :D

[sphinx]

A much better deal: The 250 GB 360 system for 99€ :D

what the fuck, this is genuinely good.. and in Germany... :( media Markt... my god, what a bad timing to not have a TV... -_- and time to play videogames..

[Speedymanic]

^ Holy shit, that's an amazing deal. :O

It's obvious MS is testing this to see if it's a viable business move for Durango. Honestly I'd bite on a 199 Durango 95, feelinging those smooth vibrations with my droogies, + a 15 a month fee for 2 years. For me that's easier pill to swallow than a 499 console. People are getting way bent out of shape over this. The model makes sense for some people. And if you don't like it then what's stopping you from paying full retail, getting deals on live gold, and saving money? Nothing is. So chill my droogies. -edit- I know the math's been done but lemme just get this out. 99$ console plus Kinect, + two years of live @ 15 a month... 460$ Retail for 2 years of live, and the same console would be 420$. Unless I'm failing at math, this is a difference of 40 dollars. Um, that's pretty reasonable "interest payments" of only 40 bucks. Am I missing something as to why people are so upset over this? Seems beyond reasonable to me.

No, they won't be doing this at the beginning of the next gen. If they were genuinely interested in rolling this out nationwide/worldwide, they would be offering this sub based consoles at any and every store possible right now. Instead they've chosen to sell it through their online service or through the dozen or so MS stores nationwide.

Sub based next gen console at launch? lol.

[jet1911]

And what happens after two years? Unless you are planning on only using it for two years its a complete ripoff and worse than the 599 debacle.

Well you start paying for Xbox Live, or you don't, and you keep the console? And I would probably do the same as him if I was really interested about buying the next Xbox.

[Ninhead]

Uh, so is this, like, real life yet?

[GeekyDad]

I can already hear the thud.

[elcranky]

So why are you still paying for it? If all you want is Apps on your TV, get a Roku for the price of 1 year of XBL. You'll also get higher quality picture and audio. You won't even need a separate box 5 years from now, most TV's now come with that shit built in.

I am pretty sure I haven't played a single MP game on the 360. i didn't pay for live until the services made it worth while

[coldfoot]

I am pretty sure I haven't played a single MP game on the 360. i didn't pay for live until the services made it worth while

You're not a well informed person than, because you're getting ripped off big time. You don't need live when a cheap streaming box with apps (like Roku) will do all that without a monthly fee.