[Dreavus]

"Who hurt you, Tekno? Who was it?" GW1's voice acting and writing are a special brand of ass, even for a game. Even the most die-hard GW fanatics should be able to admit that.

"THE CHARR INVASION FORCE! CAPTAIN CALHAAN WAS RIGHT!"

...will always have a special place in my heart.

[DarkSloth]

GW 1 was and awful game imo. I couldnt get around the 'walk around the 1 foot high mound wall thing not over it!' thing... also forced to be humans? ew.

Maybe its because I played guild wars 1 so much, and I want to make descendants for my favorite characters, but I find it really hard to make anything other than human.

[Helmholtz]

GW 1 was and awful game imo. I couldnt get around the 'walk around the 1 foot high mound wall thing not over it!' thing... also forced to be humans? ew.

No... just no. GW1+Expansions were good games, they just weren't MMOs, which is totally fine. Being forced to be a human didn't bother me much since there were so many different professions and secondary professions anyway. Even in GW2 races aren't the biggest deal outside of appearance.

[Dreavus]

No... just no. GW1+Expansions were good games, they just weren't MMOs, which is totally fine. Being forced to be a human didn't bother me much since there were so many different professions and secondary professions anyway. Even in GW2 races aren't the biggest deal outside of appearance.

I was fine with only being able to choose human too. Besides, the big visual differences between classes made it pretty cool in it's own right.

Eg. A Necromancer is very rigid and hunched most of the time, and convulses when he casts spells. Contrast to an Elementalist who somewhat gracefully float in the air when casting and gathers power calmly (the animation for casting meteor shower, for instance.)

That's something I will miss a little bit when humans get "standardized" in guild wars 2. I liked the way my Mesmer carried himself! Although I realize the alternative is somewhat ridiculous to expect - Completely unique animations for every class/race combination doesn't seem feasible with the inclusion of more races. :(

[markot]

I could never get that far in GW without getting bored >.<

And humans are just boring, I dont get why people like playing them in fantasy games.

[Jira]

so is that all of them of just the ones they were able to extract from the beta? Not that I'm not happy with the amount there.

Yeah there's 26 explorable zones at launch with Crystal Desert and Ring of Fire post-launch. I've seen some people here and there complain about the amount of zones and I don't quite understand the complaint at all. In 3 days time (about 32 hours of gameplay) I hadn't seen everything in Queensdale. There's 26 zones that are just HUGE and all filled with content, people seem to also forget that any water you see can hold content as well as vast cave systems.

I've then seen people who say there's not enough events, but then they fail to take into account that while they may have seen some events fail, there's many they haven't seen due to the fact that they haven't failed simply because of the sheer amount of people in the starting zones. I personally saw events fail and that created new events just as success can create new events. People seem to be under the impression that when going through a zone that everything THEY saw is all there is to see and that couldn't be further from the truth. There's 1,500+ events in the game in total, 26 zones to explore so ~57 events per zone, now granted I don't think the starting zones have that many in them, BUT I can tell you with 100% certainty I didn't encounter anywhere near 57 individual events in Queensdale. The point being just because you think you saw everything sure as hell doesn't mean you did. I also think that the DE amount will vary greatly on a zone by zone basis. I'll give you an example:

In the very small starting Norn area there's a cave underwater that leads into a system full of Dredge and I happened to wander in there where an event was going on to collect these plants to put onto this campfire to drive out the Dredge. Giving the guy the plants ended one event and started another where Dredge started attacking and it was just me and the NPC fending off the campfire. At that point I was downscaled from 20 to level 6 and needless to say I got my ass kicked. The event failed and I went on to do some PvP with some friends, however, had that succeeded I can bet you another event would have spawned to push in and clear the Dredge out or maybe the campfire getting to burn long enough would have drove them out. Then I bet you this guy would have started to make himself some kind of camp and maybe you'd need to defend him. He very well would have also became a merchant and eventually the Dredge would have come back to try to take it. Now can you guess how many people probably even went down in this cave let alone saw any part of these events? I'd wager 5-10% of the playerbase.

Another quick example I can give is in the Norn area when the Dredge try to repair those towers, well personally I have no damn clue what happens if they succeed because of the sheer amount of new characters being created in the BWE. As time goes on things will fail, events you've never seen will transpire and yes that's stuff you haven't seen before. It wasn't uncommon to see a lot of outposts that had been taken over by Centaurs in Queensdale, they'd capture one area and move on to the next. This escalates VERY quickly in Kessex Hills to the point of bridges being destroyed and catapults used on players, etc. ANet has said that they will not hesitate to lock down entire zones past the starting zones.

[Jira]

I could never get that far in GW without getting bored >.< And humans are just boring, I dont get why people like playing them in fantasy games.

I had a similar issue with getting bored, but it took me 3 tries for it to finally click and I've now logged about 600-700 hours into the game. Another friend of mine took about 3 tries for it to click for him too. The most important thing is don't go into it thinking it's an MMO, because it's not. It's a CORPG and probably one of if not the best on the market.

[RepairmanJack]

I'm really surprised there hasn't been some post beta weekend blog yet. You think they would want to put something out there to say it was a success and what they plan on working on before the next beta. I know they have said a lot of it either on the forums or to people in chat over the weekend, but putting it all in one place on the blog would be great.

Come on ANet!!!!

[Vinci]

I also found GW1 a trying experience. GW2 just hits all the right notes with me.

[Mulligan]

I'm really surprised there hasn't been some post beta weekend blog yet. You think they would want to put something out there to say it was a success and what they plan on working on before the next beta. I know they have said a lot of it either on the forums or to people in chat over the weekend, but putting it all in one place on the blog would be great. Come on ANet!!!!

The calm before the storm.. :)

[RepairmanJack]

The calm before the storm.. :)

More like calm before the drizzle.

[gunbo13]

"It's sad with the amount of hours I put into GW and I don't remember/know anything about the lore." That's your mind discarding the traumatic experience of being subjected to Guild Wars 1's writing and voice acting.

So I repressed it. That's good.

All I honestly remember is the charr being dicks burning EVERYTHING (seriously, can you like try not burning something?), the white mantle playing around with some serpent things, going to chill with the elves destroying trees(?), the asura decide to creep me out, hang out in the desert fight scorpions, the snowy mountains with dwarfs in castles, and some island with colorful gem stone rocks on top of asphalt. I don't even remember the final boss but I'm sure it sucked.

Cantha I remember better. Annoying samurai, awesome slums with great art, and uh...fighting I think these monsters jumping through icons. I guess I don't remember it better. Nightfall was a desert...then the jade ice world...sunspears...kurzich/luxon war...then Lavos came and reigned down destroying the world in 1999AD. EOTN was like furnaces and mecha with the creepsura. That's all I got.

Ah, the memories.

[Mulligan]

More like calm before the drizzle.

Well, if the June/July release date speculation is in fact true, then we should be expecting a release date soon. Probably soon after the next BWE, maybe before.

[Trey]

GW1 is a fantastic game.

I could never get that far in GW without getting bored >.< And humans are just boring, I dont get why people like playing them in fantasy games.

The Master race.

[Kanik]

GW1's voice acting and writing are a special brand of ass, even for a game. Even the most die-hard GW fanatics should be able to admit that.

I still can't get myself to complete prophecies. The voice acting and story is just so horrible. I tried again this weekend and STILL managed to get distracted and play pvp for like 8 hours instead.

Voice acting in Factions was great because they decided to roll with the whole "our voice acting sucks" and make it bad on purpose, on the level of a kungfu film. I still cringe whenever I see the Shiro flashbacks.

Nightfall is awkward because it exists somewhere in between awful and average.

Eye of The North - everything is better because they got the guy who voice The Brain from Pinky & The Brain to play Vekk.

Very little of it was memorable. Of over 100 hours of gameplay pumped into the campaigns, I took away this:

• You fight your doppelganger in Prophecies
• The Charr burn things up.
• Gwen's whereabouts was a mystery.
• Something something White Mantle.
• Shiro is a dick.
• Luxons like tuhrtles.
• Nightfall features the greatest failed raid on a city ever.
• The Hunger got killed pretty quickly.
• I think I fought a god?
• Destroyers are bigger dicks.
• The Norn tournament was a giant nod to Mortal Kombat and Streetfighter.
• I met a nice Charr.
• Blood washes blood.
• We took down a giant destroyer.

I'm worried that Guild Wars 2 is headed in that same direction. Every quest/storyline mission I finished would result in me getting a survey and marking "1" down for "Were the characters memorable?"

[gunbo13]

I don't care if the entire campaign is about saving nornbear from the dragons who want to create a bear clone army; just as long as the gameplay is good.

[RepairmanJack]

Well, if the June/July release date speculation is in fact true, then we should be expecting a release date soon. Probably soon after the next BWE, maybe before.

Thought you meant just the release of info after the beta event. I'm still thinking we won't get any info on release until at least after the next beta.

I'm worried that Guild Wars 2 is headed in that same direction. Every quest/storyline mission I finished would result in me getting a survey and marking "1" down for "Were the characters memorable?"

The characters were definitely not memorable that's for sure. I think they commented on this a few times on the official forums, but I can't look right now to get what they said. Hoping maybe later on they become more memorable or bigger, but those early parts the characters changed out pretty frequently and really did nothing.

I don't care if the entire campaign is about saving nornbear from the dragons who want to create a bear clone army; just as long as the gameplay is good.

Gameplay was definitely fun in the first few zones, but I am really hoping they raise the cap in the upcoming betas. I want to see some of the game mechanics used in later DE's and personal story.

[Warrior_Keoni]

The big problem I saw in beta was that people immediately abandoned NPC "quests" when there was clearly an indication of what's going to happen next.

Hey we captured this tower, awesome. *people leave*

But we need help defending it...they're coming back!

Seriously, you can get some huge exp, karma, and coin just for following up fully on a quest chain.

[Trey]

The characters were definitely not memorable that's for sure. I think they commented on this a few times on the official forums, but I can't look right now to get what they said. Hoping maybe later on they become more memorable or bigger, but those early parts the characters changed out pretty frequently and really did nothing.

I still remember those guys that jumped me in the bar. Though I don't quite remember their names, they were fabulously cheesy. Also Petra. It's the pigtails.

Probably will forget all of them once I get my teeth into the full game.

[gunbo13]

The characters were definitely not memorable that's for sure. I think they commented on this a few times on the official forums, but I can't look right now to get what they said. Hoping maybe later on they become more memorable or bigger, but those early parts the characters changed out pretty frequently and really did nothing.

All they need to do is claim that your character is the offspring of a dragon + their race. And you are on a journey to find your father who is whatever the damn boss dragon is in GW2. Then do something with the dragon blood you got...like some buff/nerf depending on territory. It's not hard.

[RepairmanJack]

I wish they would just embrace the somewhat cheesy dialogue and go full out and have over the top characters in the personal story. At least they would be memorable then.

[Vinci]

I wish they would just embrace the somewhat cheesy dialogue and go full out and have over the top characters in the personal story. At least they would be memorable then.

I don't know. The wealthy human line is pretty memorable for the douche best friend, whatever his name is.

[RepairmanJack]

I don't know. The wealthy human line is pretty memorable for the douche best friend, whatever his name is.

Imagine how memorable he would be if they just made him over the top deuchey? I just think the story writers are trying to take theirselves too seriously and it comes off a little cheesey.

[Kanik]

I wish they would just embrace the somewhat cheesy dialogue and go full out and have over the top characters in the personal story. At least they would be memorable then.

Agreed. This worked out amazingly for Saints Row 3. Which coincidentally had a story line about saving a big bear looking guy from getting cloned for a clone army by the villain.

[Hawkian]

Agreed. This worked out amazingly for Saints Row 3. Which coincidentally had a story line about saving a big bear looking guy from getting cloned for a clone army by the villain.

Though that mission did benefit from him being naked. I don't think GW2 will be rated M for Mature.

[salpa]

Guild Wars 1 is very memorable. Maybe the game just didn't click right with you, that does not make the game horrible or bad, or even the story bad. The GW 1 story is a billion times better than other MMO stories out there.

And to really enjoy the game, I think you needed to have played it during its inception. That was when people were not saying "group LF some specialized build that we will make you butcher your playstyle to accommodate", instead it was just "GLF more 6/8".

I got to play Hero's Accent for the first time a few months ago, because it was one of the Zaishen Combat missions. I go in, every single group was looking for people rank 6 or higher, and as someone who never played it before, that was obviously impossible for me. Then this guy comes and says "Randomway Group need more" and I joined. We were something stupid like 4 warriors, 2 eles and 2 monks, but dammit did we have a fun time doing it!

Then a bit later in the week the ZC mission was Random Arenas. Since RA is kind of not that serious and people couldn't reject me, I decided to make a Paragon RA build. It was basically a condition spreading build that helped the party with a little bit of protection and IMS to get around faster. The moment I got into a fight, people would whine that I was a Paragon and resign.

A lot of GW1 players do not know how to have fun anymore. The game is all about efficiency and getting the most money and prestige, and many people are willing to walk over anyone and be as rude to as many people as they can to get it.

Fun-fact: Me and my buddy, me a Paragon with a "junk" build and him a Dervish with a "junk" build and 3 heroes each which we pretty much just threw skills on, managed to vanquish every single area in Elona and we completed and got the Protector titles for all 3 games. All without the help of SoS Rits or ST Rits or IV Resto Necromancers. Was it efficient? Hell no. Was it fun as hell? Yes it was. I had one of my Dervish heroes set up as D/A where she'd teleport around like an idiot spamming scythe skills. The build probably sucked ass, but seeing my hero teleport around like a jackass was fun and is what games like this should be all about.

[Hawkian]

Guild Wars 1 is very memorable. Maybe the game just didn't click right with you, that does not make the game horrible or bad, or even the story bad. The GW 1 story is a billion times better than other MMO stories out there. And to really enjoy the game, I think you needed to have played it during its inception. That was when people were not saying "group LF some specialized build that we will make you butcher your playstyle to accommodate", instead it was just "GLF more 6/8". I got to play Hero's Accent for the first time a few months ago, because it was one of the Zaishen Combat missions. I go in, every single group was looking for people rank 6 or higher, and as someone who never played it before, that was obviously impossible for me. Then this guy comes and says "Randomway Group need more" and I joined. We were something stupid like 4 warriors, 2 eles and 2 monks, but dammit did we have a fun time doing it! Then a bit later in the week the ZC mission was Random Arenas. Since RA is kind of not that serious and people couldn't reject me, I decided to make a Paragon RA build. It was basically a condition spreading build that helped the party with a little bit of protection and IMS to get around faster. The moment I got into a fight, people would whine that I was a Paragon and resign. A lot of GW1 players do not know how to have fun anymore. The game is all about efficiency and getting the most money and prestige, and many people are willing to walk over anyone and be as rude to as many people as they can to get it. Fun-fact: Me and my buddy, me a Paragon with a "junk" build and him a Dervish with a "junk" build and 3 heroes each which we pretty much just threw skills on, managed to vanquish every single area in Elona and we completed and got the Protector titles for all 3 games. All without the help of SoS Rits or ST Rits or IV Resto Necromancers. Was it efficient? Hell no. Was it fun as hell? Yes it was. I had one of my Dervish heroes set up as D/A where she'd teleport around like an idiot spamming scythe skills. The build probably sucked ass, but seeing my hero teleport around like a jackass was fun and is what games like this should be all about.

Guild Wars 2 was built from square one for people like you.

[gunbo13]

GW1 turned to garbage though after the RAWR days. ANET decided to become a complete band of idiots with balancing their PvP. Poor GvG changes, misplaced nerfs, loss of skill control, encouragement for sameness, etc... By far the worst result with ANET's poor handling was battles of attrition. Due to all the listed mis-steps, any good GvG team could not be killed. Good monks would hold it down and mid-line support was ridiculously effective. Spikes died due to lack of DPS and so did off-target monk shutdown. There were always split options, turtling, and cheap ganks. But most meta like NPC/runner ganks were killed off becoming useless time sinks as a result of balancing.

I would be in GvG matches that pretty much always ran to the counter unless we got a shitty opponent. It would come down to a last minute strat or a guild lord damage smash before timeout. It sucked and was horrible. Monthly tourneys played out the same way as well did all high level play. Only HA provided some wiggle for originality and actual team rolls. Godlike PvP until ANET listened to every whining fan to mess their game up. I'm not surprised how stubborn they are now aside from their e-sports garbage. They should honestly ignore a lot of player feedback which does not "corrupt" the game. OMG Thieves are overpowered. Then deal with it and run a counter build. If it reaches a limit of tolerance, ANET will tweak it. The constant patch nerfs change meta every week until all the fun it dead. Players need to understand that the whining and pandering ruined GW1. So I'm with ANET on ignoring a lot of complaints and the entire GW1 community was aware of the pandering issue.

Oops, a little rant there. But it should provide some insight that people might not be aware of.

[Trey]

Oops, a little rant there. But it should provide some insight that people might not be aware of.

These truths are not lost on me:

A lot of what they responded to like that can only be properly recognized after extensive play under the desired design parameters. Three days ain't gonna cut it. Nobody rebalances fighters after a week out.

However, I think your distaste of Anet's eSports aspirations are misguided. In order to have a successful competitive game, solid game design is of course a requirement. Them focusing on tuning a game toward that end can only be a good thing, because it forces them to account for the longevity of the meta.

[Kanik]

Guild Wars 1 is very memorable. Maybe the game just didn't click right with you, that does not make the game horrible or bad, or even the story bad. The GW 1 story is a billion times better than other MMO stories out there.

Amazing Guild Wars 1 voice acting.

And to really enjoy the game, I think you needed to have played it during its inception. That was when people were not saying "group LF some specialized build that we will make you butcher your playstyle to accommodate", instead it was just "GLF more 6/8".

Been playing since beta. Still play to this day. I have never been about the grind or the best possible team to accomplish anything. Heck, I have only 5 points in HoM after years of playing.

I love the game. Lots of fun. But the story and dialogue is a mess.

[Vinci]

Amazing Guild Wars 1 voice acting.

First of all, that's awful.

Secondly, that's not the only thing that counts towards story - though it would be rather distracting.

[gunbo13]

However, I think your distaste of Anet's eSports aspirations are misguided. In order to have a successful competitive game, solid game design is of course a requirement. Them focusing on tuning a game toward that end can only be a good thing, because it forces them to account for the longevity of the meta.

It's at the sacrifice of better PvP modes. And the sad thing is, I believe one of the reasons that other modes are not implemented is because most PvP players will gravitate away from conquest. If they had a GvG alternate, I can guarantee conquest would be a bastard sibling.

Esports aspirations are fine but at this cost, they are damaging.

[RepairmanJack]

A behind the scenes at ArenaNet article up on Forbes. Haven't went through it all yet, but it has a couple behind the scenes videos there.

Edit:I really want one of those white ANet shirts with the red 2.

[K.Sabot]

Amazing Guild Wars 1 voice acting.

Guardsman Zui sounds just like Jarek from MK4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsvfP5BQxaw

[Proven]

It's at the sacrifice of better PvP modes. And the sad thing is, I believe one of the reasons that other modes are not implemented is because most PvP players will gravitate away from conquest. If they had a GvG alternate, I can guarantee conquest would be a bastard sibling. Esports aspirations are fine but at this cost, they are damaging.

I can understand you better. Still, I think some of the hate for Conquest comes down to how it was handled in GW1, and the left over mindset it caused. Can't say that playing it in GW2 would change your opinion on it.

I do think that your description of a speedy build type of meta is what ANET is aiming for and is the primary way I see Conquest (and to a lesser extent the downed state) being fun to play.

[RepairmanJack]

Spoilers! Hidden area in Lion's Arch. :o I did not try hard enough in the last BWE. I will now be jumping on everything!

(and to a lesser extent the downed state) being fun to play.

michaelscottnoooooo.gif

[Ferrio]

What does your dignity/ferocity/charm do?

[RepairmanJack]

What does your dignity/ferocity/charm do?

They are personality traits that effect your interactions with NPC. They are originally set by how you answer questions at the character creation and then they change from there. They are the Heart, Fist, and Crown symbols, I am not sure how we see our standing in them in the game though. Not sure if it was in the beta or not.

[Complistic]

What does your dignity/ferocity/charm do?

a while back they said it impacts how people greet you. it might do other stuff too.

[RepairmanJack]

A nice Staff Elementalist PvP video. This one is a lot more focused on control rather than damage and he does a great job of commentating on his play style and how the skills work.

Edit:Anyone interested in PvP should definitely check out this video. It's not just another spike build built around high quick damage with no survivability.

[Warrior_Keoni]

a while back they said it impacts how people greet you. it might do other stuff too.

When I made a charr, it seems charm would allow me to avoid some duels with other charr versus ferocity. Maybe later down the road, the choices would alter story in some way?

[TheYanger]

GW1 was a shit game. Not a lot else to say about it. It controlled like crap to appeal to the asian market, the idea of skill builds is interesting in theory but in practice it's just irksome and traps new players easily. The UI seemed designed by randomly placing things around the screen... but mostly just the controls were awful.

[nataku]

When I made a charr, it seems charm would allow me to avoid some duels with other charr versus ferocity. Maybe later down the road, the choices would alter story in some way?

I believe they do affect your personal story and choices available in there in some way.

[Miktar]

but mostly just the controls were awful.

I liked it. WASD, C to target closest, Spacebar to start attacking, V to target stuff on floor, Spacebar to pick it up. Ctrl-click to announce spellcasts and call targets. I found it very efficient.

[Quadrophenic]

They are personality traits that effect your interactions with NPC. They are originally set by how you answer questions at the character creation and then they change from there. They are the Heart, Fist, and Crown symbols, I am not sure how we see our standing in them in the game though. Not sure if it was in the beta or not.

You can see your levels of Charm/Ferocity/whatever the third one was in the Hero sheet. Its located in the upper right corner IIRC, near your other stats.

[RepairmanJack]

You can see your levels of Charm/Ferocity/whatever the third one was in the Hero sheet. Its located in the upper right corner IIRC, near your other stats.

Oh, nice to know. I had seen screens of it, but guess I missed it in the game.

[fluffydelusions]

So any news on a release date? Even an announcement of an announcement?

[BrettWeir]

Unfortunately, the latest news is still:

[Trey]

It's at the sacrifice of better PvP modes. And the sad thing is, I believe one of the reasons that other modes are not implemented is because most PvP players will gravitate away from conquest. If they had a GvG alternate, I can guarantee conquest would be a bastard sibling. Esports aspirations are fine but at this cost, they are damaging.

So you figure their eSports aspirations are making Anet ignore a bevy of modes in order to hammer out one you find lacking?

Is this, in your mind, because of inherent incompatibility between those other modes and watchable esports, or just a bad decision on Anet's part?

Granted, any answer you give would be premature and I wouldn't necessarily hold it against you down the road. You're just like the only critically constructive poster in this thread on PvP (other than "drive by" Tekno) and the views are interesting.

[gunbo13]

I can understand you better. Still, I think some of the hate for Conquest comes down to how it was handled in GW1, and the left over mindset it caused. Can't say that playing it in GW2 would change your opinion on it.

Could be but GW2 is pretty much the same thing. There is a map in HA of GW1 where the only difference is the map style, open vs. congested.

I do think that your description of a speedy build type of meta is what ANET is aiming for and is the primary way I see Conquest (and to a lesser extent the downed state) being fun to play.

Maybe but less gimmicky. They don't want cat and mouse as much as I would run. Downed state will never be fun. The charr should burn it.

So you figure their eSports aspirations are making Anet ignore a bevy of modes in order to hammer out one you find lacking?

I am implying that but it is a bit of a tin-foil hat theory. My older theory was that they prioritized WvW and just pushed out PvP to cover the bases. However, you can still go by history where many modes in GW1 were looked down upon. Only a few were populated by the better players and the rest sort of faded. GW2 is much tighter now where the options are more on the level of fleshing out the modes available. So maybe it is one of those theories or maybe they ran out of time. Who knows. But it isn't unthinkable that ANET would fear their possible esports mode would lose thunder just like their less likable modes in GW1. If conquest became something like the dumb 1v1 in GW1 and a new GvG type mode became the place to be, their entire esports plan would shift.

Is this, in your mind, because of inherent incompatibility between those other modes and watchable esports, or just a bad decision on Anet's part?

It's not a bad decision if it works out for ANET. It's just an unfortunate one, especially to fans of PvP in GW1. A mode like GvG, as someone mentioned, would be difficult to track. It's not like Starcraft where it is two players multi-tasking (though Starcraft is still ridiculously involved, it just has better visual indicators). It would be say, 8 players and each have their own really intricate roles. I wouldn't know where to start if I was showing somebody a GW1 GvG match in observer mode if they had never seen the game before. Conquest is very digestible. It shares similarities with popular FPS games and the new GW2 battle system has connections with that. It's familiar and easy to commentate. He rolls there but watch his meter, he is using a hammer because, the trebuchet does this, points are earned this way, etc... and newbie is following along.

GvG would be a damn mess.

Example: So players 5-8 have been designated as the split. This is unique for this guild since they haven't been using their 8 runner in previous builds. The ranger in 7 is using burning arrow with fire degen to take out the NPCs. But it was nerfed recently so the opposing team runner is healing them up running a Rt/E. The main team runs a rainbow spike with the second melee on opposing monk KD. They have stance removal so the off-monk can't use his dark escape as Mo/A...

It goes on and on. What does the flag do, morale boosts, DP, guild lord NPCs, guild lord health degradation over time, VOD...again, it goes on even when you are just talking about the rules.

So yea, it is a combination of the above that I believe lead to this single PvP mode lock-down.