[Easy_D]

If games didn't have in-game tutorials, the games industry would be in serious trouble.

Yep. Printing manuals is expensive

Edit: Seriously though, why can't games do it like The Witcher 2? It has a separate tutorial level that you don't have to play to start the game. Well, it was added later but still, better concept than to force feed you a slow tutorial sequence (Hello Zelda!)

[Cerebral Assassin]

Yep. Printing manuals is expensive

I doubt the next Zelda game will come with a printed manual.

[Easy_D]

I doubt the next Zelda game will come with a printed manual.

I was sort of semi-serious actually. It makes complete sense from a business standpoint to just get rid of manuals altogether as they don't really serve a purpose anymore considering how tiny and useless they've become.

[Ridleyscott]

Looking in the manual was always a part of the experience in early days. If you couldn't figure something out, you would read the story and see if there were any clues, read the controls again, read the enemies list, read the tips, etc. You look through all the concept art in the manual. Metal Gear had a frequency on the back of the box that you needed. The experience in modern games is lacking.

Mixing the manual and the gameplay is a vital mistake in modern design.

[volpone]

Sure you can make all those points, and on paper it would seem like you have a good point. But when you actually play the game, it feels way different than any previous Zelda game. It didn't FEEL like "go to this area, beat the dungeon, repeat until you win." And honestly, that's not what the game was. It was quite a deviation from the standard formula, and if you didn't like SS, then maybe Zelda as a franchise just isn't for you.

Every new Zelda game does things differently. Some are a success in the eyes of gamers and other are not. But Nintendo never evolves the good ideas into something better i.e. the involving sidequests in Majora's Mask, the real time open world in Wind Waker, the pointer functionality of weapons in TP. They abandon progress and return to the Ocarina of Time template. And once again we end up with a mixed bag of new ideas that faintly wiffs of stagnation.

[Cerebral Assassin]

I was sort of semi-serious actually. It makes complete sense from a business standpoint to just get rid of manuals altogether as they don't really serve a purpose anymore considering how tiny and useless they've become.

Yep, especially if your next console has a screen on the controller.

[Easy_D]

Looking in the manual was always a part of the experience in early days. If you couldn't figure something out, you would read the story and see if there were any clues, read the controls again, read the enemies list, read the tips, etc. You look through all the concept art in the manual. Metal Gear had a frequency on the back of the box that you needed. The experience in modern games is lacking. Mixing the manual and the gameplay is a vital mistake in modern design.

Or having to take a dump while playing Ocarina of Time taking the manual with you to stare at the pretty art and let your imagination go wild as to where the game would take you next!

[oatmeal]

EAD Tokyo. EDIT: does no one get that I was talking about Jungle Beat?

I didn't.
Makes sense now.

[Ridleyscott]

EAD Tokyo. EDIT: does no one get that I was talking about Jungle Beat?

No one cares... this thread has been hijacked by the la-li-lu-le-lo.

[Fabrik]

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -- Antoine de Saint-Exuper

Nice quote! It's Antoine de Saint-Exupery by the way. :P

[Dr.Hadji]

Every new Zelda game does things differently. Some are a success in the eyes of gamers and other are not. But Nintendo never evolves the good ideas into something better i.e. the involving sidequests in Majora's Mask, the real time open world in Wind Waker, the pointer functionality of weapons in TP. They abandon progress and return to the Ocarina of Time template. And once again we end up with a mixed bag of new ideas that faintly wiffs of stagnation.

They do them all the time. I do get your point though. There is no evolved element that clearly MM side quests and ___________. But MM's side quests are pretty much unique to any game and is largely dependent on a real-time, cycle. But if you look at it a little more generally you can see the influence echo throughout the series. Though I find it funny that on one hand you complain about "same old same old" then complain they don't more faithfully rip off previous elements in the series.

[maeda]

So the made up Zelda game Retro Studios is developing in dream world is a Zelda spinoff so we shouldn't worry? Whew. Give the genre some credit. The evidence points towards Retro Studios working on a First Person Shooter, but it would likely be an FPA like the original Metroid Prime and Bioshock. Not exactly a typical dudebro FPS.

What evidence do we have about Retro working on an FPS? If anything we have quotes by Miyamoto saying that Retro would be a good fit for the series and quotes by Aonuma saying maybe it's time for Zelda to get her own game. So yeah, I would like to see that evidence about Retro doing an FPS.

[televator]

As much as I think Zelda could use some new ideas, I think something like Starfox makes more sense. It's something that fans have been hungry for, Nintendo wants to show off what WiiU can do in HD to its old core audience, and if there's a dev out there that can do sci-fi oriented games...it's Retro without a doubt.

HD Retro StarFox.... *makes oh face* I might just get a WiiU after all.

Edit: Saw the Miyamoto quote. It blew my mind that Zelda is on the table, but still...I'm not getting my hopes up that high.

[spanks]

WAT IS HAPPENING

I actually think an Eternal Darkness sequel is plausible, considering the recent activity at Silicon Knights and Nintendo's probable willingness to take advantage of the recent tax-break boom in Canada. In collaboration with Retro, of course.

From most likely to least, I'd go:

1. Starfox
2. Metroid
3. Zelda spinoff
4. Eternal Darkness
5. F-Zero
6. Zelda traditional installment
7. Startropics
8. Mach Rider
9. New IP
10. Donkey Kong Country R 2

[MYE]

I thought Eternal Darkness 2 was all but confirmed

[User33]

Optional tutorial is always the best way of doing things. Prompt the players when they start a new game if they'd like to run through the tutorial so that players have the option of skipping it.

[EatChildren]

I thought Eternal Darkness 2 was all but confirmed

There's no absolutes, because there's always the "Dennis Dyack is full of shit" factor :P. But the signs, if truthful, are good.

[Ridleyscott]

Optional tutorial is always the best way of doing things. Prompt the players when they start a new game if they'd like to run through the tutorial so that players have the option of skipping it.

Just put it in the instruction manual and keep it out of the game completely - it just junks up the game putting in a bunch of clutter. I don't even want to be asked. I want to put a game in, push power, get the title screen and press start and immediately start playing. No tutorials disguised as missions or any damn thing.

[Mudkips]

It's when inept management discovers that an aggressive release schedule is unobtainable without: A. Delaying the schedule. B. Taking away game features. C. Releasing a buggy game. D. Making it a requirement that everyone work long hours. And they choose D because that's how things go these days.

They choose B, C, and D.

[SteeloDMZ]

Stalker-age. A duder from Junction Point (Warren Spector's studio) now works for Retro as a lead technical artist.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/robert-kovach/0/88b/760

He has worked on games like Thief: Deadly Shadows and Deux-Ex (and I presume) Epic Mickey too.

[Gummb]

cool. More quality members. :D

[Nibel]

Stalker-age. A duder from Junction Point (Warren Spector's studio) now works for Retro as a lead technical artist. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/robert-kovach/0/88b/760 He has worked on games like Thief: Deadly Shadows and Deux-Ex (and I presume) Epic Mickey too.

[anotherVegan]

Hope the Star Fox rumors are true.

[smug]

I'm not sure star fox is or should be that high on the list.. the game doesn't have much pull popularity wise.. I highly doubt a new IP because Nintendo just doesn't seem interested in the risk. I would have to go with Metroid.. even though it's sales have slumped since Prime 2 it would probably do better than Star Fox. I'm pretty sure Star Fox on 3DS sold pretty poorly and it vanished since the gamecube game I believe (not including the DS one, does this even count?). They really haven't pushed anything star fox other than the 3ds remake and again, not very good sales from my knowledge.

I hope it's not star fox, the series is over rated imo.. I would LOVE for retro to return to Metroid and it's a very high possibility as they mentioned in a developers video diary at Retro Studios that they would like to return to the series.

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

So where are you retro???

sorry if you guys thought it was new info or game just wanted to bring this topic back up.

[Log4Girlz]

So where are you retro??? sorry if you guys thought it was new info or game just wanted to bring this topic back up.

They are responsible for the Metroid and Star Fox sections of Nintendoland.

[Epcott]

Mad at bump...

But was wondering the same thing. They could have saved that conference.

[Busty]

Mad at bump... But was wondering the same thing. They could have moderately improved that pitiful excuse for a conference.

fixed.

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

They are responsible for the Metroid and Star Fox sections of Nintendoland.

That doesnt even sit well with me.

[Darryl]

There was a poster on here who mentioned a rumor about them pulling it all at the last second and replaced it with the 3DS Scott section. I really believe that rumor. That entire press conference was completely unorganized. Scott was scared to death up there, he hadn't rehearsed. It felt completely like filler. Why else would they have that 3DS section in there after they told everyone they wouldn't and announced a completely separate date for it? They probably thought they had left just enough stuff there to 'win' this year and didn't want to over-announce. I bet we're not going to hear anything about it until close to E3 next year.

[Log4Girlz]

There was a poster on here who mentioned a rumor about them pulling it all at the last second and replaced it with the 3DS Scott section. I really believe that rumor. That entire press conference was completely unorganized. Scott was scared to death up there, he hadn't rehearsed. It felt completely like filler. Why else would they have that 3DS section in there after they told everyone they wouldn't and announced a completely separate date for it? They probably thought they had left just enough stuff there to 'win' this year and didn't want to over-announce. I bet we're not going to hear anything about it until close to E3 next year.

This would not surprise me.

[guit3457]

There was a poster on here who mentioned a rumor about them pulling it all at the last second and replaced it with the 3DS Scott section. I really believe that rumor. That entire press conference was completely unorganized. Scott was scared to death up there, he hadn't rehearsed. It felt completely like filler. Why else would they have that 3DS section in there after they told everyone they wouldn't and announced a completely separate date for it? They probably thought they had left just enough stuff there to 'win' this year and didn't want to over-announce. I bet we're not going to hear anything about it until close to E3 next year.

If we were Nintendo we would do the same. I thinks this E3 was a total failure. But, they have to fight against 720/PS4 announcements next year so it makes perfect sense to wait until then to show the big things and have a decent fight at the end of 2013. This considering that the system has some horsepower (wich don't believe anymore)

I really believe it will be more annoncements from here to the launch. And I'm not talking about Tokyo Game Show.

[Thrillhouse]

They are responsible for the Metroid and Star Fox sections of Nintendoland.

This. Seriously. It was all just a pipe-dream.

[Pre]

There was a poster on here who mentioned a rumor about them pulling it all at the last second and replaced it with the 3DS Scott section. I really believe that rumor. That entire press conference was completely unorganized. Scott was scared to death up there, he hadn't rehearsed. It felt completely like filler. Why else would they have that 3DS section in there after they told everyone they wouldn't and announced a completely separate date for it? They probably thought they had left just enough stuff there to 'win' this year and didn't want to over-announce. I bet we're not going to hear anything about it until close to E3 next year.

This actually makes sense, especially considering how nervous Scott was up there. You could tell that he wasn't ready to speak in front a crowd that size.

[monome]

There was a poster on here who mentioned a rumor about them pulling it all at the last second and replaced it with the 3DS Scott section. I really believe that rumor. That entire press conference was completely unorganized. Scott was scared to death up there, he hadn't rehearsed. It felt completely like filler. Why else would they have that 3DS section in there after they told everyone they wouldn't and announced a completely separate date for it? They probably thought they had left just enough stuff there to 'win' this year and didn't want to over-announce. I bet we're not going to hear anything about it until close to E3 next year.

No excuse. Nintendo executives deserve a dokouso spanking.

MS had Halo 4/Gears
Sony had Last of Us/Beyond.
Pikmin 3 is fine (or great) but this is E3, Nintendo is fucked up crazy to treat the show like a Procter & Gamble commercial.
Kamiya on stage would have been great. That poor (yet rich) WB guy was terrible...

[Rocket Scientist]

Stop deluding yourself guys. Retro doesn't have anything. Shit's whack. Can't believe this e3.

[Exterminieren]

There was a poster on here who mentioned a rumor about them pulling it all at the last second and replaced it with the 3DS Scott section. I really believe that rumor. That entire press conference was completely unorganized. Scott was scared to death up there, he hadn't rehearsed. It felt completely like filler. Why else would they have that 3DS section in there after they told everyone they wouldn't and announced a completely separate date for it? They probably thought they had left just enough stuff there to 'win' this year and didn't want to over-announce. I bet we're not going to hear anything about it until close to E3 next year.

I dunno, seems like clutching at straws to me. Nintendo's plainly not showing anything off past the end of the year.

[Log4Girlz]

I hope whatever Retro is working on really pushes the Wii U. None of the games shown at E3 look to take advantage of any of the supposed specs released. They all look Ipad quality or sub current-gen, relying more on style and the gimmick of the tablet than anything else.

When compared to Last of Us or Beyond, nothing stands up. Now, even with the rumored specs, matching these games will be no walk in the park, it takes time, effort, skill and a fat budget.

The question is...when do we get to see what they are working on? Will it be teased tomorrow? Will we have to wait until next E3?

Bah, I hate that the rumored specs thread was closed, it was nice arguing graphics lolz.

[Darryl]

I dunno, seems like clutching at straws to me. Nintendo's plainly not showing anything off past the end of the year.

Let's see tomorrow if they announce anything for the 3DS past the end of the year.

[Always-honest]

There was a poster on here who mentioned a rumor about them pulling it all at the last second and replaced it with the 3DS Scott section. I really believe that rumor. That entire press conference was completely unorganized. Scott was scared to death up there, he hadn't rehearsed. It felt completely like filler. Why else would they have that 3DS section in there after they told everyone they wouldn't and announced a completely separate date for it? They probably thought they had left just enough stuff there to 'win' this year and didn't want to over-announce. I bet we're not going to hear anything about it until close to E3 next year.

makes sense. Unfortunately.

[Exterminieren]

I think it's far more likely that they dropped something like Aliens or Darksiders rather than OMG SUPER GRAPHICS RETRO GAME.

[Log4Girlz]

I wonder if it was because what Retro was working on was too early and didn't compare favorably to what current gen software was pushing. Would be embarrassing if it was meant to showcase the graphics of the Wii U, so instead they concentrate on showing games that were never meant to push the machine.

[clemenx]

I understand the disappointment but some of you sound as if you guys are gonna die within the Wii U launch and won't be able to play what comes after.

I can wait for Retro and EAD1

[StreetsAhead]

Nintendo is fucked up crazy to treat the show like a Procter & Gamble commercial.

As opposed to a Prometheus/Usher commercial.

[Caramello]

I said multiple times that I didn't think we'd see Retro Studios next game so I'm not surprised but I'm still a bit disappointed.. Good news is that next E3 should deliver the goods!

[LegendofJoe]

I wonder if it was because what Retro was working on was too early and didn't compare favorably to what current gen software was pushing. Would be embarrassing if it was meant to showcase the graphics of the Wii U, so instead they concentrate on showing games that were never meant to push the machine.

This is the most logical reason I can think of to explain why Retro's game wasn't at E3. I'm wondering though how legit the "crunch time this year" quote was. Where was that actually stated?

[Darryl]

This is the most logical reason I can think of to explain why Retro's game wasn't at E3. I'm wondering though how legit the "crunch time this year" quote was. Where was that actually stated?

I think it was by the Eric guy at the very start of this thread. He was talking about people bringing in MST2K DVDs to help crunch time or something.

[iceatcs]

I understand the disappointment but some of you sound as if you guys are gonna die within the Wii U launch and won't be able to play what comes after. I can wait for Retro and EAD1

Don't forget Dec 21st this year. We are going to die.

[LegendofJoe]

I think it was by the Eric guy at the very start of this thread. He was talking about people bringing in MST2K DVDs to help crunch time or something.

Cool, did he specifically say we're in "crunch time this year" or did people just infer it?

[bomma_man]

This is the most logical reason I can think of to explain why Retro's game wasn't at E3. I'm wondering though how legit the "crunch time this year" quote was. Where was that actually stated?

In one of the other threads Alberto said they could've shown it but they chose not to.