[SapientWolf]

What you post makes little sense. So you're saying it's unreasonable to hope that the successor to the most-used engine this gen runs on Wii U, that it's unreasonable to hope that 3rd parties support the successor of the most successful console of this gen, that instead it's reasonable that 3rd parties bet completely against Nintendo again even though it didn't work out for them this gen (and instead severely hurt their profits) ? What would Epic say should Wii U - against opinion at GAF - become a breakout success ? Ignore the system ? Don't use UE4 ? Pray ? Seems like a risky bet for them and the industry. Edit: Why are people so keen on repeating times and times again that Nintendo cannot get 3rd party support because "something something Nintendo" and that we should stop hoping for that ?

If the Wii U hardware lacks the features necessary to take advantage of UE4.0 then devs might not see a point in using it on the platform, regardless of its success. There's nothing conclusive about the prospects of UE4.0 on the Wii U, but the fact that Epic is not talking about porting it to the console at all is not a positive sign.

[Brad Grenz]

It will be interesting to see how the engine licensing business goes next gen. All the big publishers have lately been working very hard to cultivate internal expertise and technology, one assumes in the interest of being less dependent on licensed engines. EA has started using Frostbite across multiple studios and game types, Capcom has MT Framework, Ubisoft has both Anvil and Dunia at hand, Zenimax has IdTech 5... Even Square-Enix has a skunk-works project to develop a cross-platform engine.

[DCKing]

Those who think the Wii U isn't 'powerful' enough to run UE4 clearly do not understand what an engine does. Engines are aimed at featuresets much more than power. The Wii U will support the featureset of the PS4 and Durango more than enough to run UE4. In fact, I think that UE4 will be portable to both the 360 and Vita as well.

The only question is whether Epic is going to let it happen. Given that UE3 is ported to Wii U as well, I think it's going to happen. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the Wii U isn't a primary target for UE4 though.

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

It will be interesting to see how the engine licensing business goes next gen. All the big publishers have lately been working very hard to cultivate internal expertise and technology, one assumes in the interest of being less dependent on licensed engines. EA has started using Frostbite across multiple studios and game types, Capcom has MT Framework, Ubisoft has both Anvil and Dunia at hand, Zenimax has IdTech 5... Even Square-Enix has a skunk-works project to develop a cross-platform engine.

EA has had internal engines since the beginning of this gen, Criterion's, DICE's, you name it. Capcom has had MT Framework since the beginning of this generation. Ubi has had Anvil and Dunia for ages. Zenimax is still using external tech, even with idTech 5 out there. SE has had internal tech since the start of the generation - in fact, their first current gen presentations were of their internal engines. In other words, I don't think much will change. If anything, engines and middleware will become an even bigger business.

The Wii U will support the featureset of the PS4 and Durango more than enough to run UE4.

You have no idea what you're talking about, that's just guessing.

[SapientWolf]

Those who think the Wii U isn't 'powerful' enough to run UE4 clearly do not understand what an engine does. Engines are aimed at featuresets much more than power. The Wii U will support the featureset of the PS4 and Durango more than enough to run UE4. In fact, I think that UE4 will be portable to both the 360 and Vita as well. The only question is whether Epic is going to let it happen. Given that UE3 is ported to Wii U as well, I think it's going to happen. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the Wii U isn't a primary target for UE4 though.

How can you know that for sure?

[Agent Ironside]

How can you know that for sure?

We obviously can't know that for sure...but with Nintendo trying to "capture" back 3rd parties like they say they want to do, they really have no choice but to run this engine, as it will be a mainstay in the next generation for 3rd party games. Unless they plan on making a completely new console when the ps4/720 come out.....highly unlikely.

[Thoraxes]

How can you know that for sure?

We know that just as much as we know the Nextbox and PS4 will be powerhouses.

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

We obviously can't know that for sure...but with Nintendo trying to "capture" back 3rd parties like they say they want to do, they really have no choice but to run this engine, as it will be a mainstay in the next generation for 3rd party games. Unless they plan on making a completely new console when the ps4/720 come out.....highly unlikely.

Companies say many things, we can't assume anything.

[pottuvoi]

In fact, I think that UE4 will be portable to both the 360 and Vita as well.

X360, ps3 and Vita do not have programmable enough GPU to support proper GPGPU needed for UE4.
This limitation is about the 'feature set' you were talking about earlier.

What we are expecting from them is pretty much changing the whole graphics pipeline. (IE. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.. etc.)

[Brad Grenz]

EA has had internal engines since the beginning of this gen, Criterion's, DICE's, you name it. Capcom has had MT Framework since the beginning of this generation. Ubi has had Anvil and Dunia for ages. Zenimax is still using external tech, even with idTech 5 out there. SE has had internal tech since the start of the generation - in fact, their first current gen presentations were of their internal engines. In other words, I don't think much will change. If anything, engines and middleware will become an even bigger business.

What's changed is a new, strategic manner in which Publishers are using technology across multiple studios. Obviously before, many publisher owned studios were building their own tech for their own games, but EA, in particular, is using Frostbite, an engine DICE built for shooters, in Need for Speed games, RTS games, instead of Unreal in the next Medal of Honor... It's clear they are leveraging their investment in DICE to lessen their dependence on Engine vendors like Epic. Capcom was ahead of the curve on the trend with MT Framework. Square-Enix's acquisition of Eidos seems to have rekindled their interest in a signature engine, resulting in the work on Luminous. Zenimax was more interested in Id for their technology than as game makers. Ubisoft has seemed a bit slow to realize what they have, but I've read the new Rainbow 6 game is being built on Anvil. It's a pretty significant shift, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Epic and Crytek fighting over a shrinking market of 2nd and 3rd tier publishers, and true independents next gen.

[DCKing]

How can you know that for sure?

Because newer featuresets than the featureset offered by DX11 will not exist for several, several years. The Wii U will support at least the DX10 featureset, which in the worst case means that the Wii U will be the only one not supporting tesselation. That isn't a huge feature to miss in the grand scheme of things.

GPGPU dependencies might become a problem when porting games to the Wii U. But I can't see it being a hard dependency in UE4 at all if it's to run on iPads as well. If UE4 will run on iPads, it'll run om Wii U easily.

[pottuvoi]

Because newer featuresets than the featureset offered by DX11 will not exist for several, several years.

DX12 and/or Shader Model 6 comes out around 2013-2014, when the next generation of GPUs arrive.

GPGPU dependencies might become a problem when porting games to the Wii U. But I can't see it being a hard dependency in UE4 at all if it's to run on iPads as well. If UE4 will run on iPads, it'll run om Wii U easily.

Epic has stated that they do not expect UE4 to work on Ipads for a while, they have UE3 for that market.

[DCKing]

Epic has stated that they do not expect UE4 to work on Ipads for a while, they have UE3 for that market.

UE4 could make use of a radical new graphics pipeline. But that's quite a long shot, and even then you have to assume that backwards compatibility isn't possible to make it run on the Wii U.

That are some big assumptions there, so I'll believe it when I see it.

DX12 and/or Shader Model 6 comes out around 2013-2014, when the next generation of GPUs arrive.

I'm sorry, that's just BS.

[SapientWolf]

Because newer featuresets than the featureset offered by DX11 will not exist for several, several years. The Wii U will support at least the DX10 featureset, which in the worst case means that the Wii U will be the only one not supporting tesselation. That isn't a huge feature to miss in the grand scheme of things. GPGPU dependencies might become a problem when porting games to the Wii U. But I can't see it being a hard dependency in UE4 at all if it's to run on iPads as well. If UE4 will run on iPads, it'll run om Wii U easily.

UE 4.0 isn't targeted towards current PCs. It's not limited to the feature set of a specific API.

There is a long life ahead for Unreal Engine 3. Version 4 will exclusively target the next console generation, Microsoft's successor for the Xbox 360, Sony's successor for the Playstation 3 - and if Nintendo ships a machine with similar hardware specs, then that also. PCs will follow after that.

[Shiggy]

It's obviously not coming to WiiU until Nintendo's proxy war against Epic Games is resolved. May 14th!!!111 :D

[NBtoaster]

Because newer featuresets than the featureset offered by DX11 will not exist for several, several years.

I think it's probable the Xbox 3 will launch with DX11.1. How useful those features will be remains to be seen.

[GhostTrick]

Every engines are possible, if you disable some features.
Epic just doesn't care about Nintendo.

[DCKing]

UE 4.0 isn't targeted towards current PCs. It's not limited to the feature set of a specific API.

I'm not talking about APIs. I'm talking about featuresets. There are no proposed further (incremental) improvememts proposed to the featureset demanded by DX11. The only thing that could change is pottuvoi's GPGPU scenario. Other improvements or customizations will not be substantial/revolutionary enough to block the engine from the Wii U.

I think it's probable the Xbox 3 will launch with DX11.1. How useful those features will be remains to be seen.

DX11.1 is the tiniest of updates ever made to DirectX, and only introduces a very small uninteresting featureset requirement.

[EuropeOG]

Didn't they say UE4 will scale for different hardware better?

I don't think Epic know about any other platforms' power, they are just assuming 720 or PS4 will be significantly more powerful than Wii U.

Anyway, I have been more impressed by CryEngine lately.

[Krev]

I think it's far more likely that the PS4 and Xbox 3 are closer to one another than either are to the Wii U.

Of course.

Why do you think that?

Rumours about the approaches Sony and Microsoft are taking, the precedent of Microsoft changing specs to suit Epic's demands and the continued closeness of the two companies, and Sony's current financial hardships all lead me to think that the next Xbox will be higher end than the next Playstation.

It's annoying to read Wii U and UE4 in every UE4 thread, seriously. I think some Nintendo fans set themselves up an "expectation trap" which is going to hurt them no matter what the outcome may be.

Tell me about it.

[SapientWolf]

I'm not talking about APIs. I'm talking about featuresets. There are no proposed further (incremental) improvememts proposed to the featureset demanded by DX11. The only thing that could change is pottuvoi's GPGPU scenario. Other improvements or customizations will not be substantial/revolutionary enough to block the engine from the Wii U.

Next gen consoles aren't limited to the featureset demanded by DX11, just as current gen consoles weren't limited to featuresets demanded by DX9. Saying that the new consoles won't add any features beyond what's currently supported for DX11 next gen is a pretty big assumption. We have no way of knowing that.

There is no concrete information that indicates that UE 4.0 will be ported to the Wii U. It hasn't even been implied. The Wii U isn't currently in the UE 4.0 dialogue at all.

[ScepticMatt]

DX12 and/or Shader Model 6 comes out around 2013-2014, when the next generation of GPUs arrive.

Sauce? :)

[Busty]

At this point Nintendo fans are so deluded in this fantasy world of theirs, where the WiiU will run UE4 and get all next gen third party games, they probably expect Aslan from The Chronicles of Narnia to introduce Reggie at the E3 press conference.

[Always-honest]

Yeah well, i hope ps4 or 720 will be uber powerfull.

And i hope WiiU will be powerfull enough to bring glorious first party games in HD. I doubt i ever will buy a multiplat on WiiU

[Krev]

Next gen consoles aren't limited to the featureset demanded by DX11, just as current gen consoles weren't limited to featuresets demanded by DX9. Saying that the new consoles won't add any features beyond what's currently supported for DX11 next gen is a pretty big assumption. We have no way of knowing that.

Yep. Are people forgetting about the very advanced featureset of the Xenos?

[Plinko]

At this point Nintendo fans are so deluded in this fantasy world of theirs, where the WiiU will run UE4 and get all next gen third party games, they probably expect Aslan from The Chronicles of Narnia to introduce Reggie at the E3 press conference.

I haven't seen one person in the Wii U speculation thread who believes both of these things to be 100% guaranteed.

Nice sweeping generalization, though.

[BurntPork]

I don't see how that's different from "technical limitations" preventing UE4 on the platform - if what you're saying is that it won't be able to run it in real-world situations. Technical limitations, resource limitations and contractual obligations are largely the only reasons a company wouldn't want their product on every platform possible.

No, it would be able to run it in real-world situations; it just wouldn't look as good. There would be nothing technically preventing it from running. It would be Epic saying "no" because they want a baseline for marketing reasons.

That seems pretty unlikely, though. It's leaving money on the table, and if Wii U is successful they would regret it.

At any rate, it would have to scale down to Wii U, so it's possible that Wii U will have to wait a year or two to get it

Next gen consoles aren't limited to the featureset demanded by DX11, just as current gen consoles weren't limited to featuresets demanded by DX9. Saying that the new consoles won't add any features beyond what's currently supported for DX11 next gen is a pretty big assumption. We have no way of knowing that. There is no concrete information that indicates that UE 4.0 will be ported to the Wii U. It hasn't even been implied. The Wii U isn't currently in the UE 4.0 dialogue at all.

DX12 isn't coming for a long time. Literally nothing has been said about it. If the next consoles are coming next year, they won't have DX12 features.

Plus, we all know that future iOS devices will support it, and they'll be at or below Wii U's level of power.

[The Bookerman]

I don't get how this statement is controversial?

6 years ago, Mark rein ripped the wii a new one. I have heard worst.

[Busty]

I haven't seen one person in the Wii U speculation thread who believes both of these things to be 100% guaranteed.

Then what are we even arguing about here? Time and again we've heard stuff like this from the development community and while it's nothing official it's not hard to see which way 'the wind is blowing' in terms of the WiiU and it's performance.

Nice sweeping generalization, though.

Oh, thank you very much.

[M°°nblade]

No, it would be able to run it in real-world situations; it just wouldn't look as good. There would be nothing technically preventing it from running. It would be Epic saying "no" because they want a baseline for marketing reasons.

Nothing at all?
You are claiming something that cannot be claimed without first knowing
a. Wii U specifications
b. UE4 hardware criteria and scalability

[Horse Armour]

Why are people acting like Nintendo releasing underpowered harware is a new concept? Wii isn't the only hardware they've released that's underpowered recently, there's also a little something called the 3DS which launched in 2011 at a higher price and lower specs than an ipod touch. Before anyone saying anything about Nintendo not making something as powerful as a Vita for specific reasons, no one expected that anyway.

[SapientWolf]

No, it would be able to run it in real-world situations; it just wouldn't look as good. There would be nothing technically preventing it from running. It would be Epic saying "no" because they want a baseline for marketing reasons. That seems pretty unlikely, though. It's leaving money on the table, and if Wii U is successful they would regret it. At any rate, it would have to scale down to Wii U, so it's possible that Wii U will have to wait a year or two to get it DX12 isn't coming for a long time. Literally nothing has been said about it. If the next consoles are coming next year, they won't have DX12 features. Plus, we all know that future iOS devices will support it, and they'll be at or below Wii U's level of power.

The launch of DX12 isn't necessary for new hardware features in the next gen consoles that may or may not end up in the upcoming API. I don't see what future iOS support has to do with the Wii U either.

UE 4.0 may in fact end up on the Wii U after all. But the argument that the Wii U is guaranteed to be capable of running UE 4.0 isn't supported by any facts that I've seen. There's no reason to grasp at such thin straws before we've even seen the specs.

[AndyMoogle]

It's kind of funny, but not too far fetched. iPad3 renders at over 1080p and the graphics are catching up.

I could use my 4 year old 8800GTS to render Windows at 2560*1600, but that doesn't mean I would be able to play any games at that resolution.

The iPad 3 is still far behind a 360 in terms of power.

[mclem]

Why are people acting like Nintendo releasing underpowered harware is a new concept? Wii isn't the only hardware they've released that's underpowered recently, there's also a little something called the 3DS which launched in 2011 at a higher price and lower specs than an ipod touch. Before anyone saying anything about Nintendo not making something as powerful as a Vita for specific reasons, no one expected that anyway.

You don't say that something "isn't a new concept" by indicating an example *more recent* than the archetypal example. You demonstrate it by indicating an example *older* than the archetypal example. Ideally, much older.

[M°°nblade]

You don't say that something "isn't a new concept" by indicating an example *more recent* than the archetypal example. You demonstrate it by indicating an example *older* than the archetypal example. Ideally, much older.

Well, then replace 3DS by DS. Problem solved. :P

[Raide]

I don't care what it runs on, just show me something awesome and not just another shooter.

[TheOddOne]

I don't care what it runs on, just show me something awesome and not just another shooter.

I can confirm that there are weapons. WEAPONS!

[Plinko]

Then what are we even arguing about here? Time and again we've heard stuff like this from the development community and while it's nothing official it's not hard to see which way 'the wind is blowing' in terms of the WiiU and it's performance.

In this thread, it appears that people are arguing the difference between:

1) CAN it run UE4.0

and

2) WILL it run UE4.0

There's a huge difference, and I haven't seen anyone yet that fits the description you wrote (that it will 100% guarantee run the engine and get every 3rd-party exclusive). As I said, in the speculation thread, the Nintendo fans seem to be way more reasonable than you make it appear. When I read through that thread I see a bunch of hopeful fans who realistically expect a half-generational step and still expect the system to be underpowered compared to PS4 and Nextbox. I also don't see anyone saying they'll get total 3rd-party support--if anything, there seems to be a lot of people worrying it will be another Wii situation when it comes to 3rd-parties.

Again, it was a sweeping generalization.

[Raide]

I can confirm that there are weapons. WEAPONS!

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

"I'm outta here!"

[injurai]

In this thread, it appears that people are arguing the difference between: 1) CAN it run UE4.0 and 2) WILL it run UE4.0 There's a huge difference, and I haven't seen anyone yet that fits the description you wrote (that it will 100% guarantee run the engine and get every 3rd-party exclusive). As I said, in the speculation thread, the Nintendo fans seem to be way more reasonable than you make it appear. When I read through that thread I see a bunch of hopeful fans who realistically expect a half-generational step and still expect the system to be underpowered compared to PS4 and Nextbox. I also don't see anyone saying they'll get total 3rd-party support--if anything, there seems to be a lot of people worrying it will be another Wii situation when it comes to 3rd-parties. Again, it was a sweeping generalization.

From what I read a little while back, UE3 is being made to scale to next-gen consoles so that it will still be a primary engine to develop on. It would see most titles especially early on next gen will still be using UE3. UE4 is nothing more than speculation and I'm sure Epic will be hoarding it just like it did for Gears, which sparked that law suit with Silicon Knights.

[Krev]

You don't say that something "isn't a new concept" by indicating an example *more recent* than the archetypal example. You demonstrate it by indicating an example *older* than the archetypal example. Ideally, much older.

I think M°°nblade is saying that Wii wasn't just a one-off. It exemplifies a shift in Nintendo's hardware design philosophy that began when Iwata took over as president. All Nintendo platforms launched since he took the reigns have been designed to maximise day one profitability, and seemingly with no regard for the more advanced tech specs of the competition.

[DragonSworne]

How can EU4 make use of a different pipeline if they don't have a graphics card with those different pipelines?

Unless Epic is working directly with the GPU companies, I don't see how it is possible.

[BurntPork]

Nothing at all? You are claiming something that cannot be claimed without first knowing a. Wii U specifications b. UE4 hardware criteria and scalability

The word "would" implies a hypothetical. I'm not making a definitive claim.

Also, we know that it'll scale down to mobile platforms, which still have two years until they catch up to current systems.

[JonathanPower]

Or just be fucking with us and mean that epic haven't announced which platforms not that the platforms haven't been announced by the manufacturers

Although you may twist the sense of the sentence this way, in my opinion what they mean is clearly that the Unreal Engine 4 is intened for a platform that still has not been announced by the hw manufacturer. This suggests that they are talking about next generation consoles, or maybe about next generation PC GPUs.

[DCKing]

Next gen consoles aren't limited to the featureset demanded by DX11, just as current gen consoles weren't limited to featuresets demanded by DX9. Saying that the new consoles won't add any features beyond what's currently supported for DX11 next gen is a pretty big assumption. We have no way of knowing that.

That's not what I said, is it? There most definitely will be new features and customizations in both Durango and PS4 hardware.

What I'm saying is that there are no concepts that are being discussed that would expand the featureset of next generation GPU in a dramatic way. This was different a few years ago, when tesselation was actively discussed (and added onto DX10 Radeon cards too) and before that unified shaders as well. For years, every new generation of GPUs has increased the flexibility with which graphics can be programmed. Now GPUs are really just huge units of compute engines that can be programmed in any way programmers like - there's not much flexibility to add to that. There hasn't been much since 2006. It's hard to think of things that modern GPUs cannot do based on the graphics pipeline that we've had for years.

Now, of course there will be some neat tricks present in the GPUs of all three next generation consoles, but given how graphics are being done nowadays none of those customizations is likely to be a substantial blockade for cross-portability. It's power where the difference will be. The Wii U will likely not reach half the performance of the next Xbox and PS chips, but power by itself does not define whether a console can 'run' an engine.

For now, DirectX 11 is a convenient way to discuss featureset because a GPU supporting a DirectX 11 featureset is a modern GPU with modern shader processors and a modern tesselation unit. That is why I'm using the term. At least two (and I expect three) of the next-gen consoles will feature a chip with that featureset, though with some customization added on top. With each of them having the vast majority of important features in common (and all of them being made by AMD as well), portability should not be a problem when it comes to supported features.

In short, 'can the Wii U run UE4?' right now I'm inclined to say yes. 'Will it run UE4?' I'm going to say probably. Epic doesn't like Nintendo but even despite the status of third party games on Nintendo home consoles, it's income they won't want to miss. Needless to say the version of UE4 for Wii U will likely be somewhat of an afterthought and due to lack of power will never quite shine the way it does on the other consoles.

How can EU4 make use of a different pipeline if they don't have a graphics card with those different pipelines? Unless Epic is working directly with the GPU companies, I don't see how it is possible.

The new graphics pipeline wouldn't require new graphics architecture, but it would be an engine tailored to use a modern GPU in conjunction with an additional, smaller, GPU like is rumoured for PS4 and Durango. I find the benefits of such an architecture unclear, and the scalability of the engine would be reduced massively, so I'm quite skeptic of it right now. But it's the only realistic scenario I see where UE4 physically cannot run on Wii U.

[Flavius]

When was the last time anyone on GAF purchased a Nintendo console to do anything other than provide first party experiences?

[M°°nblade]

Also, we know that it'll scale down to mobile platforms, which still have two years until they catch up to current systems.

You probably mean that smartphones will be able to run UE4 once they catch up.
Because I don't remember Epic saying it will scale down to allow mobile UE4 games.

[KageMaru]

No, people just like to assume it is going to be an underpowered piece of garbage because it is coming out earlier than the competition. People like to think that just because the Wii was underpowered, Nintendo all of a sudden "always releases underpowered hardware". That's why I stay away from the Wii U thread.

I don't think Nintendo "always releases underpowered hardware" but I firmly believe that the Wii-U will be underpowered compared to the Ps4/720.

Unless the ps4 and 720 are as small as the Wii-U, that's proof enough that there will be a gap in performance.

But didn't he also say that Samaritan was like UE 3.9? If .1 can take engine from crap to awesome then there is something strange happening in the world of GPU tech.

This doesn't make any sense. Engines don't work that way.

What you post makes little sense. So you're saying it's unreasonable to hope that the successor to the most-used engine this gen runs on Wii U, that it's unreasonable to hope that 3rd parties support the successor of the most successful console of this gen, that instead it's reasonable that 3rd parties bet completely against Nintendo again even though it didn't work out for them this gen (and instead severely hurt their profits) ? What would Epic say should Wii U - against opinion at GAF - become a breakout success ? Ignore the system ? Don't use UE4 ? Pray ? Seems like a risky bet for them and the industry. Edit: Why are people so keen on repeating times and times again that Nintendo cannot get 3rd party support because "something something Nintendo" and that we should stop hoping for that ?

lol I love the mentality that this industry is against Nintendo. Nintendo goes against the trends of the industry and expects them to conform. When they don't, it's the industry that's against Nintendo /rollseyes

The Wii may have sold the most when looking at a single console, but the marketshare didn't match the combined install base of the PS360 and PC, which developers consider one large pie. We'll see, with the Wii-U, how much it'll benefit publishers to support Nintendo. However you're making some assumptions here IMO.

What would epic do if the Wii-U is a success? They'll offer UE3 as an engine. Even if it is a success, it's unlikely that one system will match the sales of the Ps4/720 and again PC.

Regarding your edit, you also seem to believe that Nintendo cannot get 3rd party support because according to you, the industry is against Nintendo. I have a soft spot for Nintendo, and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt (again), but honestly how many times have we heard them say they will try to win back 3rd party support?

Those who think the Wii U isn't 'powerful' enough to run UE4 clearly do not understand what an engine does. Engines are aimed at featuresets much more than power. The Wii U will support the featureset of the PS4 and Durango more than enough to run UE4. In fact, I think that UE4 will be portable to both the 360 and Vita as well. The only question is whether Epic is going to let it happen. Given that UE3 is ported to Wii U as well, I think it's going to happen. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the Wii U isn't a primary target for UE4 though.

lol

EA has had internal engines since the beginning of this gen, Criterion's, DICE's, you name it. Capcom has had MT Framework since the beginning of this generation. Ubi has had Anvil and Dunia for ages. Zenimax is still using external tech, even with idTech 5 out there. SE has had internal tech since the start of the generation - in fact, their first current gen presentations were of their internal engines. In other words, I don't think much will change. If anything, engines and middleware will become an even bigger business.

None of the studios/publishers were really ready at the start of this gen. The shift from a single core, SD console to a multi-core, DX9, HD console was huge at the time.

Now studios and publishers have grown smart and many of the late developments this gen will benefit next gen systems while still offering room to grow.

What you're saying isn't really accurate here.

Because newer featuresets than the featureset offered by DX11 will not exist for several, several years. The Wii U will support at least the DX10 featureset, which in the worst case means that the Wii U will be the only one not supporting tesselation. That isn't a huge feature to miss in the grand scheme of things. GPGPU dependencies might become a problem when porting games to the Wii U. But I can't see it being a hard dependency in UE4 at all if it's to run on iPads as well. If UE4 will run on iPads, it'll run om Wii U easily.

lmao

Every engines are possible, if you disable some features. Epic just doesn't care about Nintendo.

Yes, Epic is willing to throw money away just to spite Nintendo.

I'm not talking about APIs. I'm talking about featuresets. There are no proposed further (incremental) improvememts proposed to the featureset demanded by DX11. The only thing that could change is pottuvoi's GPGPU scenario. Other improvements or customizations will not be substantial/revolutionary enough to block the engine from the Wii U. DX11.1 is the tiniest of updates ever made to DirectX, and only introduces a very small uninteresting featureset requirement.

Are you claiming that there's no real improvement in DX11 besides GPGPU functionality?

lmfao Really DC, please stop.

No, it would be able to run it in real-world situations; it just wouldn't look as good. There would be nothing technically preventing it from running. It would be Epic saying "no" because they want a baseline for marketing reasons. That seems pretty unlikely, though. It's leaving money on the table, and if Wii U is successful they would regret it. At any rate, it would have to scale down to Wii U, so it's possible that Wii U will have to wait a year or two to get it

Marketing reasons would have no effect since they could just not show that version at all. No different than developers showing off superior versions of today's games.

If the Wii-U cannot support the UE4's pipeline, and that any scaling down would just result in UE3.5 results, then it's not worth the investment when they already have an engine that supports the platform.

How can EU4 make use of a different pipeline if they don't have a graphics card with those different pipelines? Unless Epic is working directly with the GPU companies, I don't see how it is possible.

An engine designed around DX11 would be quite different than an engine designed around DX9, even if the DX9 engine has DX11 features tacked on.

[DCKing]

Are you claiming that there's no real improvement in DX11 besides GPGPU functionality? lmfao Really DC, please stop.

No, I'm saying the only major improvement of hardware DX11 requires is tesselation.

Please read my posts next time, and stop responding like an ass.

[specialguy]

Are we really still on this Wii U=in league with ps4/xb3 thing?

Really?