[TheJollyCorner]

Whenever it does come out, if it fails to meet expectations, Final Fantasy is finished.

naaa, it'll just fast-track the inevitable FFVII Remake as a desperate 'hail mary'. :p

[Arxisz]

(sarcasm; it was a major flop)

Ah now that I read it again. sarcasm detector was malfunctioning badly, my bad lol.

[Kagari]

I don't think it was a wise idea decision by them to develop XIII-2; instead, they should have just concentrated on Versus. Thy tried to see how it will be received after fixing most of the issues FFXIII had (created new ones too), but I kind of feel that it actually ended up hurting the brand even more. And yeah, Versus is the sort of game that most FF fans desire right now, so withholding information like this doesn't seem like a right move. If they announce XIII-3 -which seems likely- even Versus won't be able to get the FF brand back on track.

Probably the worst thing they could do at this point to restore confidence - another sequel to a sequel barely anyone wanted.

[Meccanical]

I kind of want them to do a XIII-3 just to see the huge backlash that would follow.

It would be like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

[Man God]

Pretty sure even SE isn't deluded enough to make FF XIII-3.

Though they did try to make people pay for XIV again...

[Rahxephon91]

At least XIII-3 has a chance to be good and be released in a timely matter.

Can't say that for Versus.

[Kagari]

Pretty sure even SE isn't deluded enough to make FF XIII-3. Though they did try to make people pay for XIV again...

They still make people pay for FF11, so... XIV being pay to play isn't really that shocking.

[ZombiePlatypus]

I kind of want them to do a XIII-3 just to see the huge backlash that would follow. It would be like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

Starring a cast of 10 different characters.

They're all Vanille. All 10 of them. FFXIII-3: VANILLE CLONE SAGA.

[Meccanical]

Starring a cast of 10 different characters. They're all Vanille. All 10 of them. FFXIII-3: VANILLE CLONE SAGA.

Only the dead can no peace from this evil

[Man God]

They still make people pay for FF11, so... XIV being pay to play isn't really that shocking.

Yes but XI is a finished well polished game!

Or you could go with some clever joke about not having to pay for it for all those months but its too hard trying to joke about something so depressing.

[laika09]

If they were planning a 13-3, they had to have scrapped it when they saw 13-2 barely break 2 million worldwide.

[Kagari]

Yes but XI is a finished well polished game! Or you could go with some clever joke about not having to pay for it for all those months but its too hard trying to joke about something so depressing.

FFXIV has come a long way. People playing it now are more than willing to pay for it, so that must mean something right?

[Zoe]

Indeed. Before XIII got released lots of people were actually anticipating that game more than Versus, but after that turned out the way it did, everyone is putting all their expectations on this to bring the franchise back to it's feet. Whether it will meet those expectations is one of the main reasons for all the hype.I think S-E knows that and that's why it's probably taking it's sweet time with it.

Nah, Versus has prevailed here ever since the Cloud DVD came out.

[Kajiba]

Funny thing, my brother mention this game to me by title few months back. I looked at him fucking puzzled at what the hell he was talking about.

I honestly forgot about this game. I really don't know how they can bring attention back to this game and make us want it. Thats if they do something like metal gear rising. Just come back showing a video that they've been messing up and start showing something new that they are working on.

[charlequin]

This game has to have become FFXV.

Why on Earth would Square-Enix do this? I mean, seriously.

Making Versus into XV sends exactly one message to the world: we are too incompetent to make a real Final Fantasy XV. We are so desperate that we have to take a standalone title that's already associated with a different numbered FF and rebrand it six years after its announcement because otherwise we'll never release another new numbered entry.

It's one thing to give it a new name to separate it from the stink of XIII, but trying to reposition this title as a new main-series title is only asking for trouble. Anyone who thinks this is a good plan should probably avoid weighing in on branding debates in the future. :P

Stuck in development hell just like the original XIII !

Just like literally every ambitious console title Square-Enix has developed since 2005.

Yes, the 25-year-old, 100-million-unit-selling media franchise will collapse overnight due to the (probably predestined) critical reception of one game.

No, the franchise is collapsing due to about six years of constant poor-quality spinoffs, bad brand management, a style that's increasingly distant from the tastes of two out of three regions, and the poor critical reception of (soon to be) three consecutive main or near-main titles.

[Kagari]

Nah, Versus has prevailed here ever since the Cloud DVD came out.

DKS3713 trailers were the tipping point. I was glad I saw the XIII one first because the Versus one was even more impressive.

[DanielJr82]

FFXIV has come a long way. People playing it now are more than willing to pay for it, so that must mean something right?

Any updates on the PS3 port?

[Kagari]

Any updates on the PS3 port?

Beta should be launching later this year for it with a full release by Q1 2013.

[Gamer @ Heart]

Why on Earth would Square-Enix do this? I mean, seriously. Making Versus into XV sends exactly one message to the world: we are too incompetent to make a real Final Fantasy XV. We are so desperate that we have to take a standalone title that's already associated with a different numbered FF and rebrand it six years after its announcement because otherwise we'll never release another new numbered entry. It's one thing to give it a new name to separate it from the stink of XIII, but trying to reposition this title as a new main-series title is only asking for trouble. Anyone who thinks this is a good plan should probably avoid weighing in on branding debates in the future. :P .

I think that is a very big logical jump that only gamers like us on message boards would make, if it all. Aside from Japan, there has been next to no media for this game which means they can still shape it to be whatever they want image wise everywhere else in the world. Also, I just figure, if the game is amazing, its exactly what the brand needs right now and has a better shot than anything we know right now of releasing 'relatively' soon.

[Meccanical]

These overreactions are palpable.

[DJIzana]

I'm certainly keeping my eye open for Square with FFXIV 2.0 but the first time I played XIV really left a bad taste in my mouth... (yes, I'm aware it's come along ways) BUT you can't compete against GW2 with no monthly fee.

If I did pay to play a game, pending on how their upgraded game play mechanics turn out in XIV 2.0, I'd consider that but certainly not XIV the way it is right now. It's a snooze fest for me.

[UberTag]

If they were planning a 13-3, they had to have scrapped it when they saw 13-2 barely break 2 million worldwide.

You'd think that, wouldn't you?

Then again, perhaps Square Enix still made a profit on the game despite the low sales number.
Perhaps 13-3 was always intended (as per the ending of the last game) and Square Enix is too stubborn to tell Toriyama "no" despite the lacklustre sales and disingenuous marketing.
Perhaps Square Enix doesn't realize they're doing irreparable damage to their bread-and-butter Final Fantasy brand.

[charlequin]

I think that is a very big logical jump that only gamers like us on message boards would make, if it all.

You've got it entirely backwards. Dedicated gamers are the people who know what Versus is, who have followed it (to some degree or another) for years, who are still posting in these threads six years after the first time they talked about the game on GAF ('sup Jolly), and who might stare at something like a rename with a skeptical eye but would nonetheless accept it for what it is. The more casual audiences (you know, the people who drive 90% of Final Fantasy sales) aren't going to follow the situation closely, they're just going to get enough to know that they're being snookered.

If you want to build terrible word-of-mouth before your product is even out, a great way is to do something that you'd only do to try to trick people into paying your product extra attention in a way that's incredibly easy for them to find out about.

(Seriously, renaming the game to XV is an incredibly dumb idea.)

[Gamer @ Heart]

I honestly dont see general audiences reacting that way. You make them seem very fickle about something as minor as a name change. They barely know this game even exists and if its amazing, has great word of mouth and reviews, most will buy it regardless.

[Takuya]

I still believe they renamed it.

[laika09]

No, the franchise is collapsing due to about six years of constant poor-quality spinoffs, bad brand management, a style that's increasingly distant from the tastes of two out of three regions, and the poor critical reception of (soon to be) three consecutive main or near-main titles.

That's the only criticism you listed that I find reasonable, at least in supporting the claim that the franchise is on the verge of 'collapse'. The last one follows from it, and the attitude that you are (I guess?) taking towards Versus reinforces the fact that Square is vainly attempting to recapture an audience that they've lost forever. But there's a huge difference between 'collapse' and 'only being mildly successful in the West.'

Final Fantasy is not a mainstream brand. It might have been 15 years ago, but only because the mainstream had drastically different demographics. Even beyond dudebroification, a lot of people are simply unwilling or unable to accept that they are no longer the target audience because, gasp, they're 15 years older than they used to be. Final Fantasy XIII is zero parts more melodramatic or cheesier than FFX but it received infinitely more criticism for it.

There will always exist a niche for the series here, but the western mainstream rejects anything with a hint of emotion or melodrama and sees right through any attempts at patronization. Square's real mistake has been streamlining the gameplay and RPG elements to cater to an audience that the actual content of the game precluded them from ever endearing.

(I don't know what "bad brand management" even means or how it's separated from just publishing games that people don't like. Is it putting a Leona Lewis song on a commercial during the NBA All-Star game? That's S-E NA being tone-deaf, not any decision that Wada or Kitase or Nomura made. They've only released a handful of spinoffs in the past couple years, and I doubt anyone thinks 'less of the brand' because of cash-ins like The After Years.)

[Kagari]

I still believe they renamed it.

They renewed the trademark very recently.

[daegan]

Probably the worst thing they could do at this point to restore confidence - another sequel to a sequel barely anyone wanted.

I kind of want them to do a XIII-3 just to see the huge backlash that would follow. It would be like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

Don't they kind of have to, though, given the ending?

At any rate, Square really needs to bring back the smaller games or have local teams work on downloadables. I think not having anyone who has shipped a game that was either not on a handheld or XIII/XIII-2 in the past few years is what is really hurting them right now. FF needs Kitase, Toriyama and co. to move on.

[Kagari]

There's DLC releasing this month that's "supposed" to resolve the ending. We'll see.

[DJIzana]

There's DLC releasing this month that's "supposed" to resolve the ending. We'll see.

Youtube, please! :P

I already got rid of my copy of XIII-2 the second I was done with it, to be honest.

[Leeness]

Not gonna lie, I'd prefer 13-3 over Versus at this point. Hahaha. I actually rather enjoyed 13-2 in a guilty pleasure sort of way. It was hilarious, and terrible, and endearingly awful. And I liked Noel and Serah (never thought I could like Serah after 13).

And I definitely want to see a continuation to that ending.

[Perfo]

I don't think Final Fantasy XIII-3, if ever exists, will be announced before the release of Versus XIII.

[CorvoSol]

Starring a cast of 10 different characters. They're all Vanille. All 10 of them. FFXIII-3: VANILLE CLONE SAGA.

Given that everyone in Kingdom Hearts is Sora, I cannot rule this possibility out.

[Hero]

I don't see the hubbub behind if they renamed it FFXV. I don't think the XIII moniker did them any good anywhere worldwide. The people who were going to buy Vesus would buy it regardless of the name but they might actually get back some more audience if they passed it off as mainline title. Even in the worst case scenario it's not like it could be any worse than FFXI and FFXIV being online games. I honestly don't think anything Versus could do right now could drastically shift the public perception of Square Enix or the Final Fantasy brand name at this point.

It's gotta come out some time next year though, right? This fall Wii U is going to come out and next year will be a lull period for PS3 so that would be a proper swan song there. If Versus launches past the release date of the PS4 would anyone care? I know Dragon Quest typically gets away with that, does anyone think Final Fantasy could?

[encephalon]

Even if it isn't in a position to come out towards the end of this year or next year, Square is probably going to rush it so that it meets that time frame. They've been able to release a big title every winter in Japan since 2009. If they can't get Versus out at the end of this year (in Japan), then they'll probably aim for early next year.

[Haunted]

I think they might drop the XIII from the title, but no way they're going to rebrand an announced spinoff game to a mainline title.

[Esura]

I think they might drop the XIII from the title, but no way they're going to rebrand an announced spinoff game to a mainline title.

Then it would be "Final Fantasy Versus" which is not at all misleading...

Whether it would be called XV or not, the name needs to be changed to something other than "Versus XIII" though. If Type-0 can go through the change then so can Versus XIII.

[Clear]

I wonder if they could pack-in a short FFXIII-3 with Versus? In the manner they did FFX-2 and Last Mission?

I mean, the pitch would be: Here's this shiny new Final Fantasy, with a side-dish of the conclusion to the original FFXIII story.

[The_Endgamer]

I may be generalizing heavily but the last time i remember a really delayed Final Fantasy we got the best 3D one of the lot; FFXII.

Here's hoping it's because they're hard at work retooling it as FFXV and for the WiiU ;)

[Pureauthor]

I may be generalizing heavily but the last time i remember a really delayed Final Fantasy we got the best 3D one of the lot; FFXII. Here's hoping it's because they're hard at work retooling it as FFXV and for the WiiU ;)

Actually, the last time they delayed a FF we got FFXIII.

And if you consider FFXII the best of the lot it was in spite of the delays and poor production. The narrative goes to pieces about halfway through due to the production problems.

[Angry Fork]

Versus is stupid they should get rid of that name and 13.

But DON'T replace it with something completely unintelligible and ridiculous. Final Fantasy Star Galolum Dissidissidentazer Miracle Master Chronicles of Norom Euroba. Don't.

[Haunted]

Versus is stupid they should get rid of that name and 13. But DON'T replace it with something completely unintelligible and ridiculous. Final Fantasy Star Galolum Dissidissidentazer Miracle Master Chronicles of Norom Euroba. Don't.

Someone get that Japanese -> Latin dictionary away from Nomura or he'll call it Ultima Phantasia Contra Tredecim or some shit.

[Rez]

Could the game actually be cancelled at this point? Is there a possibility this could have actually happened?

[Toth]

I have failed to see how FF13 is any more melodramatic than the Tales games, which are as popular here as they have ever been and great sellers abroad. In fact, JPNs RPGs are almost all the same. Heck, it used to be the norm, and a guilty pleasure at that. We are just seeing the Western style finally catching up and moving in different directions and that is eating away at the old demographics.

And I must stress once more that despite its weaker sales, FFXIII-2 was the highest PS3 seller last year in Japan. And lets not forget the DLC has been selling very well. I expect SE will make some kind of announcement at E3 about WW figures on it.

[The_Endgamer]

Actually, the last time they delayed a FF we got FFXIII. And if you consider FFXII the best of the lot it was in spite of the delays and poor production. The narrative goes to pieces about halfway through due to the production problems.

I was referring to the last time I remembered a delayed FF game. Not necessarily being true of all FF delays, i'm sure Type 0 would have been subject to delays...
Regardless of your opinion, i quite enjoyed it. Definitely gave the FF layout a shakeup for the best rather than using the same core battle mechanics since the NES days. :P

[Pureauthor]

I have failed to see how FF13 is any more melodramatic than the Tales games, which are as popular here as they have ever been and great sellers abroad. In fact, JPNs RPGs are almost all the same. Heck, it used to be the norm, and a guilty pleasure at that. We are just seeing the Western style finally catching up and moving in different directions and that is eating away at the old demographics.

Tales games are as popular 'as they've ever been', and that is far, far less than FF at it's heyday. If SE wants to shoot for Lowered Expectations they're welcome but somehow, I doubt that.

Also, whether or not FFXIII's plot is melodramatic is secondary to the issue of FFXIII's plot being stupid.

And I must stress once more that despite its weaker sales, FFXIII-2 was the highest PS3 seller last year in Japan. And lets not forget the DLC has been selling very well. I expect SE will make some kind of announcement at E3 about WW figures on it.

Highest seller on the PS3 in Japan. Ain't that a booby prize.

Big fish, small pond.

Regardless of your opinion, i quite enjoyed it. Definitely gave the FF layout a shakeup for the best rather than using the same core battle mechanics since the NES days. :P

No, I can understand why people would like FFXII the best even if I don't personally agree. What I'm saying is that your correlation of the production delays to liking FFXII is a pretty poor relation, because from everything we can see the production problems hurt FFXII as a game.

[MechaX]

I have failed to see how FF13 is any more melodramatic than the Tales games, which are as popular here as they have ever been and great sellers abroad. In fact, JPNs RPGs are almost all the same. Heck, it used to be the norm, and a guilty pleasure at that. We are just seeing the Western style finally catching up and moving in different directions and that is eating away at the old demographics.

Uh... what?

Also, being as melodramatic as a Tales game isn't a compliment. At all.

[Toth]

What I mean is that Tales games are finally getting some NA love and attention from Namco (facebook, etc). And sales are always very high for the titles in Japan.

[M_Night]

These comments are why I strongly believe Versus will be renamed to XV

[jaxword]

These comments are why I strongly believe Versus will be renamed to XV

A ton of people have been predicting this for years now, though it's still armchair CEO talk, really.