[Log4Girlz]

The people who wrote the bible must of gotten lucky so many times then since a lot of what we know today has been proven in the bible. How lucky of them that they wrote something about the world being flooded to explain away dinosaurs even though the people that wrote genesis probably never seen a dinosaur bone. If the bible didn't have anything that could explain why dinosaurs are extinct, you'd have a point, but there is your evidence again for the legitimacy of the bible.

There is no conclusive evidence that the world was at any point completely flooded. All scientific evidence points to a completely different scenario as to well, the entire history of earth and prior species compared to the bible. The bible does not even deal with the concept of extinction. You assume the bible is real and you point to dinosaurs as evidence to support your conclusion.

7 day week cycle? Yeah, its in the bible too. Even today you live your life according to a seven day week cycle. I wonder why that is? The bible writers must of gotten lucky on that one too.

LOL, you are such a funny troll. The 7 day week is a cultural phenomenon, it is not tied...with anything. There is nothing significant to a 7 day week.

Did you know the bible also knew that fruits and vegetables were good for you without science telling you about antioxidants and all that good stuff? Maybe they got lucky with that stuff too.

What was the alternative? We evolved to enjoy fruits and vegetables, its not a stretch to discover they were good for us. Its not like we have constant urges to eat fucking rocks and it killed us and the bible was all like "OMG, I know you want to eat rocks, but its bad for you".

Or maybe the bible got lucky when 2400 years before science figured out the earth was round that Isaiah 40:20 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: meh, lucky.

The earth is not circular?

AND THen you have bible prophecy. Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. lucky right?

The end hasn't come yet?

27 percent of the bible has to do with prophecy so hey, start studying =) And don't let me get into the archeaological evidence. This is all evidence that comes together and just keeps adding up. there's so much more but the thing is, the bible was compiled thousands of years apart by different authors in different time periods yet it is cohesive and united in its scope over the most controversial topic in the world, God. Lucky right?

If it was so cohesive and unified in scope then why are there hundreds of interpretations of the bible and hundreds of christian denominations?

Where does it talk about relativity? Quantum mechanics? Where is the bestiary showing all animals that have ever existed including detailed images of dinosaurs? Where is the description of the planets revolving around the sun?

What is the purpose of prophecies?

Why aren't any of the prophecies SPECIFIC with exact dates, times and names of people involved in exactly prophecies?

A book of assumptions with no more merit than the Quran. If your evidence somehow held weight, then the entire world would be christian and there would be 1 denomination, no more.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Imtheman, it seems to me, correct me if I'm wrong, that you subscribe to the faith that says "everyone besides me has to be a bloody moron". Because, short of you having an education that starts and stops with the Bible, that's the only way you could possibly be this militant about the Bible.

The end hasn't come yet?

He's talking about TV. He's saying that the Bible predicted TV.

[imtehman]

I know you can't be serious imtehman. You just can't.

come on dude, this was written 2000 years ago

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

thats a pretty big assertion to say that the absolutely insane things of the new testament would be preached around the whole world, but look at today, its happening!

If there is just a little hint that the bible might be true, then do what the bible says

Deut 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

This is your eternal salvation at stake

[Log4Girlz]

come on dude, this was written 2000 years ago Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. thats a pretty big assertion to say that the absolutely insane things of the new testament would be preached around the whole world, but look at today, its happening! If there is just a little hint that the bible might be true, then do what the bible says Deut 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. This is your eternal salvation at stake

The sad part is, though you are joking, the tactics you are using is exactly what religious ideologues use.

What I assert is the truth is the truth because it claims to be true. Accept or hellfire.

[imtehman]

Imtheman, it seems to me, correct me if I'm wrong, that you subscribe to the faith that says "everyone besides me has to be a bloody moron". Because, short of you having an education that starts and stops with the Bible, that's the only way you could possibly be this militant about the Bible.

i'm not saying anything. There is grounds for why i believe in the bible, i'm just presenting a little bit of it that's all.

the bible is hundreds of pages long, this is just snippets of it.

This is a gaming forum, when we make a game purchase we would like to get reviews, read up on information about games so that we can make a decision with our hard earned dollars.

Why not do the same with God?

[Haly]

Not a joke unless he's been keeping up this troll for a few months.

[imtehman]

The sad part is, though you are joking, the tactics you are using is exactly what religious ideologues use. What I assert is the truth is the truth because it claims to be true. Accept or hellfire.

That's a pretty compelling reason to make sure you're right about it then

[HP_Wuvcraft]

This is a gaming forum, when we make a game purchase we would like to get reviews, read up on information about games so that we can make a decision with our hard earned dollars. Why not do the same with God?

... this guy is a troll, right?

I mean, he's not actually suggesting that we can figure out if we want to be Christians from a few posts on an internet forum, right?

[Feep]

The concept of a 7-day week predates the Bible. Firstly, that Bible verse you quote is very ambiguous. (And the Earth is a sphere.) Also, people knew that the world was round at least two hundred years BC. I feel like I should elaborate, but it would probably be a futile effort.

Oblate spheroid, actually. ^^

How lucky of them that they wrote something about the world being flooded to explain away dinosaurs even though the people that wrote genesis probably never seen a dinosaur bone.

Uh, okay.

If the bible didn't have anything that could explain why dinosaurs are extinct, you'd have a point, but there is your evidence again for the legitimacy of the bible.

This isn't evidence for legitimacy. It simply means there's an explanation for dinosaurs being wiped out. Of course, this story raises literally hundreds of other questions, most notably why there is no archeological or geological evidence for a global flood, or how it was possible to fit two of the millions of known land-dwelling species (and plants?) onto a ship whose dimensions are given quite exactly.

7 day week cycle? Yeah, its in the bible too. Even today you live your life according to a seven day week cycle. I wonder why that is? The bible writers must of gotten lucky on that one too.

As others have said, the seven-day cycle largely predates the Bible. It really doesn't even make much sense, if you think about it.

Did you know the bible also knew that fruits and vegetables were good for you without science telling you about antioxidants and all that good stuff? Maybe they got lucky with that stuff too.

As human beings die without fruits and vegetables, it stands to reason that humans had a pretty good idea that we needed them before the Bible OR science told us so.

Or maybe the bible got lucky when 2400 years before science figured out the earth was round

It's been known that the Earth was round since early Greece. When was the Bible written, again?

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Well, I mean, one out of two isn't bad. But the end still doesn't seem to be here.

27 percent of the bible has to do with prophecy so hey, start studying =)

The fuck?

And don't let me get into the archaeological evidence.

Oh, go for it! I want to see all the peer-reviewed and accepted evidence.

Lucky right?

So lucky.

[Necromanti]

Oblate spheroid, actually. ^^

My religious text disagrees with you, heathen.

If there is just a little hint that the bible might be true, then do what the bible says

If even believers cannot come up with a compelling argument for why the Bible is true, how could non-believers possibly be persuaded when there are many, equally justifiable religions? If certain parts of the Bible are incongruent with reality as we know it today, why would we not hypothesize that the same could hold true for the other parts?

[imtehman]

... this guy is a troll, right? I mean, he's not actually suggesting that we can figure out if we want to be Christians from a few posts on an internet forum, right?

uhhhh, no that's not what i'm suggesting.

[Log4Girlz]

come on dude, this was written 2000 years ago Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. thats a pretty big assertion to say that the absolutely insane things of the new testament would be preached around the whole world, but look at today, its happening! If there is just a little hint that the bible might be true, then do what the bible says Deut 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. This is your eternal salvation at stake

imtehman

Why doesn't that prophecy states how many nations the gospel will be preached in? Why does it not specify an exact year for the end?

That's a pretty compelling reason to make sure you're right about it then

Hell fire does not exist. As humans we evolved to be superstitious so that such threats would actually scare us and we follow arbitrary cultural laws and not fucking kill each other off. Religion served a purpose, it evolved for a reason.

When science shares a prophecy, it tends to be extremely exact. The standard model is so exact (to billionths of a percentage point) that well, fucking computers work. We can estimate exactly where on the energy scale the must higgs boson reside when we use the LHC, for its existence to make sense etc.

So why so vague? Why is this the prophecy so incredibly vague?

[imtehman]

imtehman Why doesn't that prophecy states how many nations the gospel will be preached in? Why does it not specify an exact year? When science shares a prophecy, it tends to be extremely exact. The standard model is so exact (to billionths of a percentage point) that well, fucking computers work. We can estimate exactly where on the energy scale the must higgs boson reside when we use the LHC, for its existence to make sense etc. So why so vague? Why is this the prophecy so incredibly vague?

There's whole books of the bible that deal with prophecy. Daniel and Revelation in particular, that already have happened so that when you study for yourself, you can either come to believe it or if you're already a christian and study it, it will reinforce your beliefs.

Its the same way Jesus spoke in parables

Luke 8:10
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Why is it meant to be studied? Because that's how you seek God.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

the bible isn't somethign you read casually like a fiction novel. It's meant to be studied.

[Log4Girlz]

There's whole books of the bible that deal with prophecy. Daniel and Revelation in particular, that already have happened so that when you study for yourself, you can either come to believe it or if you're already a christian and study it, it will reinforce your beliefs. Its the same way Jesus spoke in parables Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. the bible isn't somethign you read casually like a fiction novel. It's meant to be studied.

If any of the prophecies were accurate then I would of heard of them, as everyone and their mother would be pointing to them as absolute proof the christian bible is accurate.

"Parables" so vague wordage basically. The more vague you are, the more you can spin whatever meaning you wish onto them.

What is the purpose of the bible?

If god existed, and truly wanted you to believe in him, why not just appear before you? Why not give incredibly specific scientific knowledge only the christian bible contained so you would know, the whole world would know it was accurate?

Because it was not written by a god, it is not divine in nature. Over the millenia it has been altered and edited to try to cover itself. Somehow, someway you are just supposed to believe what it says and god somehow should not be questioned. The bible is not specific and gives you no conclusive proof of its accuracy...to fucking challenge you? To test your faith?

[Necromanti]

There's whole books of the bible that deal with prophecy. Daniel and Revelation in particular, that already have happened so that when you study for yourself, you can either come to believe it or if you're already a christian and study it, it will reinforce your beliefs.

Looking through the book you mentioned, it seems to deal with a range of topics such as the Whore of Babylon, the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, The Beast, and a false prophet (among others). Where would you suggest someone should start? How would I be able to reach the conclusion that these prophecies have already been fulfilled?

[imtehman]

Not a joke unless he's been keeping up this troll for a few months.

guys like sir isaac newton must be uber trolls then. The guy is arguably the greatest scientist who ever lived but he spent more time studying the bible then studying science.

[Log4Girlz]

guys like sir isaac newton must be uber trolls then. The guy is arguably the greatest scientist who ever lived but he spent more time studying the bible then studying science.

I'm sure his obsession with alchemy had big pay offs.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

guys like sir isaac newton must be uber trolls then. The guy is arguably the greatest scientist who ever lived but he spent more time studying the bible then studying science.

That's not why people are calling you a troll.

I am sure that Sir Isaac Newton responded to everything with "it's in the Bible lol", too.

[Log4Girlz]

That's not why people are calling you a troll. I am sure that Sir Isaac Newton responded to everything with "it's in the Bible lol", too.

For some reason, religion and its holy books do not need to stand up to scrutiny. Everything he posted can be scrutinized and it just doesn't hold up. Religious ideologues simply cannot understand how such passages in the bible cannot be recognized as evidence :/

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I just can't deal with "you're asking me these questions because you're an idiot" types.

That and it's 3am. What else am I gonna do this early.

[EliCash]

I wish a prophet like the boring prophet from the Life of Brian was deemed as the Messiah. Then Christianity (or whatever it would be called instead) might not have took off, or at the very least would have died an early death.

There shall in that time be rumors of things going astray, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things with the sort of raffia-work base - that has an attachment. At that time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer, and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before (at about eight o'clock.)

It is written in the book of Cyril.

[imtehman]

Looking through the book you mentioned, it seems to deal with a range of topics such as the Whore of Babylon, the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, The Beast, and a false prophet (among others). Where would you suggest someone should start? How would I be able to reach the conclusion that these prophecies have already been fulfilled?

some have happened, some are yet to happen.

The bible itself tells you how to study these things.

Isaiah 28:13
But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little

Taking this into account and being that Daniel and Revelation are littered with symbolism, you would use the bible itself to interpret its symbols.

Revelation 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

It would be foolish of me to say that the Lamb Revelation is talking about is Hitler or some other name. But some where else in the bible it tells you what the Lamb is

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

This is how one would study bible prophecy. We know then that Revelation 5:12 is talking about Jesus by looking at John 1:29

I dont want to give my interpretation of it, i think it it something that, if it interests you, should study for yourselves. But, whatever you do, always look to the Bible as your ultimate source.

[imtehman]

I just can't deal with "you're asking me these questions because you're an idiot" types. That and it's 3am. What else am I gonna do this early.

i do not think you're an idiot at all. we are just sharing each others beliefs. i'm sorry if i came off as such. its hard to keep up when i'm trying to talk to multiple people

[Necromanti]

The bible itself tells you how to study these things. Taking this into account and being that Daniel and Revelation are littered with symbolism, you would use the bible itself to interpret its symbols. This is how one would study bible prophecy. We know then that Revelation 5:12 is talking about Jesus by looking at John 1:29

I understand what you are saying, but wouldn't there need to be some sort of external proof to give legitimacy to the prophecies? Something we could see in the physical world, I mean. Otherwise, we'd just be taking the Bible's word for it. A valid prophecy can't be self-contained in the Bible, or we'd be making assumptions. The Bible can't both make the claim and then prove it at the same time. Sorry for the confusion.

[imtehman]

If any of the prophecies were accurate then I would of heard of them, as everyone and their mother would be pointing to them as absolute proof the christian bible is accurate. "Parables" so vague wordage basically. The more vague you are, the more you can spin whatever meaning you wish onto them. What is the purpose of the bible? If god existed, and truly wanted you to believe in him, why not just appear before you? Why not give incredibly specific scientific knowledge only the christian bible contained so you would know, the whole world would know it was accurate? Because it was not written by a god, it is not divine in nature. Over the millenia it has been altered and edited to try to cover itself. Somehow, someway you are just supposed to believe what it says and god somehow should not be questioned. The bible is not specific and gives you no conclusive proof of its accuracy...to fucking challenge you? To test your faith?

i will give an answer this tomorrow, its time for bed. it was fun though!

[OttomanScribe]

I find that avatar quite off putting.

[jdogmoney]

Hey, speaking of prophesy:

19 "This is what the Sovereign LORD says: When I make you a desolate city, like cities no longer inhabited, and when I bring the ocean depths over you and its vast waters cover you, 20 then I will bring you down with those who go down to the pit, to the people of long ago. I will make you dwell in the earth below, as in ancient ruins, with those who go down to the pit, and you will not return or take your place in the land of the living. 21 I will bring you to a horrible end and you will be no more. You will be sought, but you will never again be found, declares the Sovereign LORD."

Essentially, the city of Tyre is prophesied in the Bible to never be rebuilt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre,_Lebanon

It was rebuilt.

What does a Biblical literalist have to say on something like this?

[Log4Girlz]

Science: Make as few assumptions as possible

Religion: Take all these assumptions as truth

[Sutton Dagger]

There's whole books of the bible that deal with prophecy. Daniel and Revelation in particular, that already have happened so that when you study for yourself, you can either come to believe it or if you're already a christian and study it, it will reinforce your beliefs.

Is someone else really pulling out the Book of Daniel as prophetic card? It's already been discussed at length ( though the person who was making the same claim never returned) mainstream scholars date 'Daniel' to the 2nd century BCE, well after the supposed fulfillment of the prophecies. So you're yet to produce any legitimate prophecies or evidence for your claims, I would like for you to keep trying though.

Just produce one unambiguous prophecy or piece of evidence, it shouldn't be difficult.

[phisheep]

The seven day week is literally BECAUSE of the Bible and the civilisations it influenced and got influenced by. An astral year isn't divisible by seven in its amount of days.

No, but seven days is almost exactly a quarter of the moon's phases - and it's the lunar rather than the solar calendar that dominated for much of history.

[ivedoneyourmom]

the bible is a history book. Jewish people are evidence. They came from somewhere. They had a beginning. They recorded their beginnings in thier writings, that writings became the old testament. You celebrate the 4th of July, why? Because its a tradition that been passed down from generation to generation of an event that happened in the past. There's evidence of the 4th of July such as the declaration of independence. The Jews today still celebrate the Passover why? Because its a tradition that has been passed down from generation to generation of an event that happened in the past. There's evidence that it happened, it was written by a man named Moses who then passed it down to a whole nation of people who passed it down to successive generations which today is called the Old Testament.

Stop right there. Even ISRAEL doesn't agree with you that the Exodus occurred. Your evidence for why the Bible is a history book is based on an event everyone now knows didn't happen. What sense does that make?

[Mgoblue201]

There is very little evidence that Moses ever existed. In fact, the entire Pentateuch couldn't have been written by Moses, because it refers to places and things that weren't established until centuries later, and it's written in a style that would be awkward from Moses's perspective. Notable archaeologist William G. Dever writes:

The miraculous, larger-than-life story of the Exodus as it now stands in the Bible cannot be corroborated as factual history. Nor do we even need to presume such a series of events in a far off foreign land, given archaeology's recent documentation of the rise of early Israel within Canaan. To put it simply, there is no longer a place or a need for the Exodus as a historical explanation for the origins of Israel. The story, however dramatic, however central to the self-identification of later Biblical Israel—or even our own identity in the West—is best regarded as a myth. In this case, it is just the sort of origin myth that has characterized many other peoples past and present.

Also, atheist cat does not approve of the arguments for a historical Exodus:

[jp_zer0]

There should be a thread dedicated to atheism versus liberalism.

Sure, the god believers are still around, and rightfully should be owned, but they aren't the only ones espousing morals.

Liberals are the greatest moralists of this day, always stressing equality and ascetic living.

[The Technomancer]

There should be a thread dedicated to atheism versus liberalism. Sure, the god believers are still around, and rightfully should be owned, but they aren't the only ones espousing morals. Liberals are the greatest moralists of this day, always stressing equality and ascetic living.

Dude, what is with you lately?

[Rapstah]

No, but seven days is almost exactly a quarter of the moon's phases - and it's the lunar rather than the solar calendar that dominated for much of history.

Yeah, my point, poorly communicated over mobile GAF, was that the fact that we use it today doesn't have anything to do with how good it is.

[Buckethead]

Dude, what is with you lately?

What's with today, today?

[makingmusic476]

Dude, what is with you lately?

He's cracking me up.

[Orayn]

I find that avatar quite off putting.

I laughed when he ignored me pointing out the similarities between Kefka and certain nihilistic aspects of his own worldview.

[Raist]

guys like sir isaac newton must be uber trolls then. The guy is arguably the greatest scientist who ever lived but he spent more time studying the bible then studying science.

Newton, like many eminent scientists before and after him, started invoking god when he reached his limit. You won't find any mention of god in his establishment of the physical laws of motion or calculus.

[thoughthorizon]

The explanation for that would be how you will punish your kid if he/she tries to touch fire even after you educated them. Meaning, its your love as a father for his/her safety , that seems to look as anger and punishment. But instead is actually so much love that he cant see you hurt yourself. That was the conclusion i came to when I use to believe in the fairy tale of God.

No that isn't an explanation: God's punishment is eternal and the same irrespective of the crime.

It's like me beating my daughter to death because she refused to say please and thank you then saying "oh - I was teaching her a lesson because I love her".

This doesn't teach a lesson

From what i'm reading its not that you guys don't believe in God, its just that you hate the God of the bible and choose to ignore him.

Seriously? That's what you get: we point out the inconsistencies and provable incorrectness of biblical scripture, ask for evidence for any of it, and your conclusion is "oh, you just hate God".

No, we don't hate God... we don't believe there is a God. By that logic I also hate unicorns, because I don't believe in them either.

the bible is a history book. Jewish people are evidence. They came from somewhere. They had a beginning. They recorded their beginnings in thier writings, that writings became the old testament.

Now I know you're trolling. The Australian Aboriginals have myths of their history too - so presumably they're also factual accounts and everything in the world was created by the mother spirit's footsteps?

You realise that there is no evidence for many of the events in the bible, and often there is good evidence which directly contradicts it? Does this mean it's all fictional? No - some elements may have a root in oral histories, but these are mythologised - Spiderman comics tell us that he lives in New York - it's a real place, but that doesn't make Spiderman a real person!

Do we trust that everything in Herodotus' histories are true? Of course not - they are mythologised accounts!

Why would you presume otherwise for this single book (the Bible) when supernatural mythology is the norm for every other religious tale and scripture?

7 day week cycle? Yeah, its in the bible too. Even today you live your life according to a seven day week cycle. I wonder why that is? The bible writers must of gotten lucky on that one too. ... Or maybe the bible got lucky when 2400 years before science figured out the earth was round that Isaiah 40:20 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Firstly, the 7 day week predates Jewish culture (meaning they likely inherited it from earlier ones), and more importantly there is no inherent 7 day week in nature - ancient China, for example had a 10 day week. 7 days is a useful approximation because it fits into the 28 approximate days of the lunar cycle - this is not mystical in any way.

There is nothing in the bible about the earth as an oblate spheroid, nor even a sphere. The "circle of the earth" reflects the belief which stretches back to the earliest proto babylonian cultures who believed the earth was a disc in a hemisphere of "the heavens" - hence a circle in a "tent".

Likewise dinosaur bones are nothing new - finding a myth for bones exposed in rock is easy to explain.

There is no science here, just observation of the world and making up a nice story about it.

[Lafiel]

Newton, like many eminent scientists before and after him, started invoking god when he reached his limit. You won't find any mention of god in his establishment of the physical laws of motion or calculus.

Issac newton also came from a time where most scientists would have been religious.

Although some of newton religious beliefs would have been considered heresy by some sects of christianity back then.:)

[Lothar]

What happened to Game Analyst? Is he now an atheist since he couldn't respond to anyone's arguments?

[krioto]

I'm just impressed that this particular form of self-delusion has been debated for as long as it has.
First reply should have been - Bible is not true; you guys been scammed - jelly? = trolling the ultimate troll

[Game Analyst]

What happened to Game Analyst? Is he now an atheist since he couldn't respond to anyone's arguments?

I am right here. I will respond on the weekend when I have a lot of free time to respond to all of the posts.

[Buckethead]

There's literally dozens of prophecies that were made in the OT that would be almost impossible to recton randomly.

When you understand how these texts where put together and why -- these types of things make a lot more sense.
I'd recommend "Who Wrote The New Testament" for starters.

Also not sure we're on the same page on the definition of "retcon".

[Canuck76]

When you understand how these texts where put together and why -- these types of things make a lot more sense. I'd recommend "Who Wrote The New Testament" for starters. Also not sure we're on the same page on the definition of "retcon".

What's your definition of retcon?

[DarthWoo]

People are ACTUALLY basing their faith on supposed Biblical prophesies? Even Biblical scholars who have stated that it is most likely that many of the supposed prophesies were retroactively written long after the events they predicted. This is to say nothing of the prophesies that are so vague that they look Nostradamus sound like someone with OCD, or the ones that were inevitable, or the ones that were just plain self-fulfilling.

[FoxSpirit]

Guys, Guys!!!!

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing." The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams

Faith (in the religious sense) is based on the premise that faith is God's proof that God's existence is truth {and does not rely on facts}. I'd like to omit the last part but quoted it for totality

As a Christian, that would be soooooo temting to accept as the ultimate explanation. Veeeeeeery tempting. So good.

[JGS]

People are ACTUALLY basing their faith on supposed Biblical prophesies? Even Biblical scholars who have stated that it is most likely that many of the supposed prophesies were retroactively written long after the events they predicted. This is to say nothing of the prophesies that are so vague that they look Nostradamus sound like someone with OCD, or the ones that were inevitable, or the ones that were just plain self-fulfilling.

That reminds of the scholar who said the apostles were likely illiterate and so it was impossible for them to write Scripture lol.

Prophecies are not the only reason for faith, but Bible scholars en masse do not say the prophecies were retoactive. As usual it depends on who you listen to and what they're trying to sell you. If one is of the opinion that prohecies & miracles are impossible to begin with, only a time machine would satisfy them regarding it.

From a logical viewpoint, most prophecies regarding future invents need no retrofitting to begin with. They tend toward vaguery and symbolism since the writer didn't have a clue and pertinent only to the Jews or Christians to begin with. If they were retroactive, it would have been smart to simply spell it out so we could be in absolute awe.

[jdogmoney]

I am right here. I will respond on the weekend when I have a lot of free time to respond to all of the posts.

I'd love to get your opinion on how the city of Tyre exists when Biblically it was meant to never be rebuilt.