[Marty Chinn]

How the fuck could you be so absent minded to leave your toddler in a car? I have a nearly 2 year old daughter and i don't understand it.

Never forgotten anything in your life? Never been distracted enough that your daughter got into something she shouldn't have? You're perfect?

[-Stranger-]

Never forgotten anything in your life? Never been distracted enough that your daughter got into something she shouldn't have? You're perfect?

I have and yeah sure she has gotten into things before.
But when i take her out in the car i always get her out and into the pram it's just a routine.
Maybe it's because America has a busier lifestyle than where i live.

[hirokazu]

Pretty sure whenever this happens in Australia, the mother or whoever is responsible is vilified and charges are laid. This seems to be the case in all recent memory.

[Marty Chinn]

I have and yeah sure she has gotten into things before. But when i take her out in the car i always get her out and into the pram it's just a routine. Maybe it's because America has a busier lifestyle than where i live.

Well think about how you have forgotten things or let your girl get into something she shouldn't have. Why did you let it happen to begin with? All it takes is a simple shake up in routine, something that happened unexpectedly, something else important that day and you could easily have a slight lapse. All it takes is one time despite being perfect a thousand times before.

[bomma_man]

Pretty sure whenever this happens in Australia, the mother or whoever is responsible is vilified and charges are laid. This seems to be the case in all recent memory.

That's when they intentionally leave them in the car so they can spend their day on the pokies. Completely different.

[Hamplin]

ITT: Not noticing kids drawing on wallpapers = Leaving them in the car to die.

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

well this is sad. anyone could easily make a mistake like this.

[Marty Chinn]

ITT: Not noticing kids drawing on wallpapers = Leaving them in the car to die.

In this thread people miss the point.

[Hamplin]

In this thread people miss the point.

Yep, don't steal my point.

[Gaspode_T]

So many people have Breaking Bad level s**t going down in their lives it's unreal, and you wouldn't even know it to talk to them. I still see people tweeting or posting on Facebook like they are the happiest person in the world and I know their personal life is in shambles, you really can't make judgment about things like that but of course this still breaks my heart and really inexecusable mistake.

[Volimar]

Damn, that poor kid....


Damn, that poor mom...

[MarkMclovin]

I had a little panic just the other morning on the way to work. My daughter is 2 and a half and myself and the wife are pretty much in a routine week in week out.

This one day, when the wife is normally in work and I drop my daughter off at my mothers house on the way to work, I was making my way there and I fucking freaked out when I looked back at the child seat - she wasn't there. For a few seconds, I thought that I had left her outside the house, on the street. Then I realised that the wife wasn't in work that day and was at home with her.

I can't imagine what this mother must be going through and I've certainly had a few nightmares of this type of stuff happening to us.

Having a kid is a complete mind fuck sometimes.

I can't wait for her to be grown up!

[KittenMaster]

I only read page 1-2 of this thread, but apparently people are naturally perfect and would not even go as far as leaving a candy bar out in the sun to melt by mistake.

One time my cat got caught in the dryer and we were lucky to have caught her while she was still alive. Now I become extremely paranoid every time the washer and dryer turn on. These things can sadly very well happen, the justice system can't really do anything to prevent that.

[SmokyDave]

I read a very sad, long form article about this a while back. It happens occasionally and the parents' lives are generally wrecked, sometimes with legal penalties. Edit: Here it is http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...022701549.html Just awful. No legal penalty is as bad as the guilt.

I've read that article before and it chills me. You'd think it would be impossible to forget some things, but apparently not.

When I was a baby, my sisters left me in my pram outside a local shop. They just totally forgot I was with them and went home. Fortunately, nobody could bring themselves to steal such a beautiful baby.

[BladeoftheImmortal]

You're also guessing that she didn't do it the first time on purpose. Dismissing gross negligence that results in a baby literally being heated to death is a slippery slope.

There is a big difference here that clearly shows it wasn't premeditated. guilt, absolute guilt. she isn't casey Anthony.

[Forceatowulf]

My mother left me on top of the car when I was a baby. Went on the fucking freeway and everything. She never was the best mother, although she tried.

Now, If I fell off that car and died I think my mother should have definitely be charged with something. My feelings are the same in this case as well. You can't walk away from this clean. You fucked up. And there is no way of anyone knowing if you had any type of motive beforehand. Something has to be done.

[LowKeyedUp]

It is nothing short of hubris to think that you are protected from a tragedy like this due to your perfect brain.

People that this has happened to..

-Doctor
-Teacher
-Rocket Scientist
-Soldier (awarded a Bronze Star for handling $47 million in government cash without misplacing a penny)


Get over yourselves.

[Sho_Nuff82]

I thought only characters in horror movies didn't check their back seats.

[Javaman]

I would suggest that if you are a parent, make it a habit of always looking in the back whenever you get out, whether you have your kids with you or not. Make it a normal step you do EVERY time, just like locking the car.

[POWERSPHERE]

Unless she someone ment to do it, I feel so, so sorry for that mum. Horrible.

[heliosRAzi]

She should not be punished

[KHarvey16]

My mother left me on top of the car when I was a baby. Went on the fucking freeway and everything. She never was the best mother, although she tried. Now, If I fell off that car and died I think my mother should have definitely be charged with something. My feelings are the same in this case as well. You can't walk away from this clean. You fucked up. And there is no way of anyone knowing if you had any type of motive beforehand. Something has to be done.

For what purpose? What does jail or some other punishment accomplish?

[LowKeyedUp]

For what purpose? What does jail or some other punishment accomplish?

Exactly. Punishment is not a deterrent in this case. That is not how memory works.

[heliosRAzi]

Now, If I fell off that car and died I think my mother should have definitely be charged with something. My feelings are the same in this case as well. You can't walk away from this clean. You fucked up. And there is no way of anyone knowing if you had any type of motive beforehand. Something has to be done.

What exactly? Punishment? Prison is not meant to punish but to rehabilitate. The best rehab she can get is through therapy. Is it to set an example? To keep people from using a "get out of jail free card"? Normal and sane people don't want to leave their infants in cars so deterrence is unnecessary against them. Those who are not sane or normal wouldn't even see this woman getting punished as a deterrence.

[Forceatowulf]

What exactly? Punishment? Prison is not meant to punish but to rehabilitate.

So says you. It's meant to do both from where I sit.

This woman was in charge of a child's life. She failed miserably. She needs to pay a price.

I don't know what was going on in her head when this all went down that day. None of us do. But you people can't pretend like there is no possibility that she could have done this on purpose.

Fact of the matter is, a child is dead and it was due to parental negligence. Something must be done.

[LowKeyedUp]

So says you. It's meant to do both from where I sit. This woman was in charge of a child's life. She failed miserably. She needs to pay a price. I don't know what was going on in her head when this all went down that day. None of us do. But you people can't pretend like there is no possibility that she could have done this on purpose. Fact of the matter is, a child is dead and it was due to parental negligence. Something must be done.

The price is that she lives with the fact that she is responsible for the death of the most precious thing in her life.

[daw840]

Wow, this thread has exploded far more than I thought it would.

I think the best analogy that has been brought up is kids getting into things. Not drawing on the wallpaper type things but really dangerous things. There have been kids that have fallen down stairs and died, kids that got into poisonous cleaning chemicals and died, etc. It's terrifying being a parent. You have to be on a constant vigil 100% of the time, but unfortunately that isn't possible. You can't be perfect. It's just a matter of when you slip up, and you will, how bad are the results. Usually, it's minor. A scraped knee, broken arm, goose egg on her head, etc. People don't get charged in those situations, generally. This story is just the absolute worst case scenario possible, but it's still an accident, and still IMO not a criminal matter.

[KHarvey16]

So says you. It's meant to do both from where I sit. This woman was in charge of a child's life. She failed miserably. She needs to pay a price. I don't know what was going on in her head when this all went down that day. None of us do. But you people can't pretend like there is no possibility that she could have done this on purpose. Fact of the matter is, a child is dead and it was due to parental negligence. Something must be done.

Incarceration motivated by a need for vengeance or punishment is a serious problem. It's useless, counter productive from the perspective of society overall and crude.

[killer_clank]

But you people can't pretend like there is no possibility that she could have done this on purpose.

Obviously if it was deliberate they should be punished with the full force of the law, but in this case it presumably was a legitimately a horrible freak incident. There was no intent to harm the child from the parents point of view. They'll have to live with that for the rest of their life, but in cases like this bringing forward criminal proceedings is absolutely pointless, assuming the police have found no evidence of any deliberate wrongdoing.

A truly horrible situation of course, either way.

[YoungHav]

I hope the people that are gung ho about this woman suffering even more aren't part of the police defense force.

[Forceatowulf]

The price is that she lives with the fact that she is responsible for the death of the most precious thing in her life.

And if she did this on purpose? What's her punishment then?

Are people in here that are defending her actions so naive that the mere thought of her possibly doing this on purpose is absurd or impossible? People have tried to off their kids before people. This isn't some once in a life time phenomenon we're talking about here.

Sorry, but no one gets to walk away scott free after a child dies on their watch in such a horrible manner. No fucking way.

Incarceration motivated by a need for vengeance or punishment is a serious problem. It's useless, counter productive from the perspective of society overall and crude.

If that's the way you see things, fine. But from where I stand people who are responsible for heinous shit need to be held accountable for it and reap the consequences. Period.

If I hired a babysitter and she did this shit to my kid, accident or on purpose, I would be furious beyond belief. And I would definitely want something done. Just because it's the mother in this scenario doesn't make her immune to some sort of punishment.

[Juancho9]

And if she did this on purpose? What's her punishment then? Are people in here that are defending her actions so naive that the mere thought of her possibly doing this on purpose is absurd or impossible? People have tried to off their kids before people. This isn't some once in a life time phenomenon we're talking about here. Sorry, but no one gets to walk away scott free after a child dies on their watch in such a horrible manner. No fucking way. If that's the way you see things, fine. But from where I stand people who are responsible for heinous shit need to be held accountable for it and reap the consequences. Period.

I fucking hate you(e-hate). You suck and you are what is wrong with some people on GAF.

[Forceatowulf]

I fucking hate you. You suck and what is wrong with GAF.

No, what's wrong with GAF are people like you who flame others they disagree with.

[Juancho9]

No, what's wrong with GAF are people like you who flame others they disagree with.

You're arguments are in my opinion, dumb and childish. It's solely based on "what ifs" while you ignore the more obvious facts of the story. And what's pissing me off most of all is that I'm actually agreeing with KHarvey.

[Zoe]

And if she did this on purpose? What's her punishment then? Are people in here that are defending her actions so naive that the mere thought of her possibly doing this on purpose is absurd or impossible? People have tried to off their kids before people. This isn't some once in a life time phenomenon we're talking about here. Sorry, but no one gets to walk away scott free after a child dies on their watch in such a horrible manner. No fucking way.

Nobody is saying that there shouldn't be an investigation. The police can determine whether it was an accident or deliberate.

[Hamplin]

I fucking hate you. You suck and what is wrong with GAF.

He is totally right in that it is possible that someone of an unstable mental state would do such a thing on purpose. The thought of one of those persons hearing about the possibility of getting off scott free with the murder of his/her child is kind of uneasing.

[RubxQub]

This happens to 20 parents a year roughly out of all the parents in the country. It's not exactly like this is a "it could happen to anyone" thing. Clearly this happens to an insanely small percentage of parents out there.

As I said before, in this case it's pretty clear the mother didn't have any kind of ill-intent, but that doesn't mean that she should be able to walk away from this without any ramifications. Should she be allowed to have more kids in the future? Surely she wouldn't make the same mistake twice, right? Is she mentally fit to continue teaching other kids?

Obviously the mother is punishing herself, but that doesn't change the fact that a kid is now dead and it's her fault entirely. It's "her brain" that failed.

Locking her up isn't the answer, but declaring that she can't have kids anymore and can't teach anymore or something doesn't seem too crazy to me.

I get it, I'm a monster...blah blah. Just because the accidental death of her kid is tragic doesn't mean we just leave the mother alone and let her deal with it herself. She clearly had mental problems before, and surely it's worse now. She's not guilty of a crime, but she should need to go through mental therapy to determine if there are deeper problems at play.

Sorry that that opinion offends you.

[LowKeyedUp]

Good lord this thread brought out some real winners. I'm out.

[seanoff]

And if she did this on purpose? What's her punishment then? Are people in here that are defending her actions so naive that the mere thought of her possibly doing this on purpose is absurd or impossible? People have tried to off their kids before people. This isn't some once in a life time phenomenon we're talking about here. Sorry, but no one gets to walk away scott free after a child dies on their watch in such a horrible manner. No fucking way. If that's the way you see things, fine. But from where I stand people who are responsible for heinous shit need to be held accountable for it and reap the consequences. Period. If I hired a babysitter and she did this shit to my kid, accident or on purpose, I would be furious beyond belief. And I would definitely want something done. Just because it's the mother in this scenario doesn't make her immune to some sort of punishment.

very US POV this. the incarceration rate in the US is so far above any other 1st world country (and any other country for that matter) it's actually insane.

jail isn't always the answer. other countries haven't fallen apart with incarceration rates at 10X less than the US.

she made a horrible mistake. jail wont protect the society from any danger, nor will it be any more punishment than she is giving herself.

it was a horrible accident, nothing more, nothing less.

[Forceatowulf]

You're arguments are in my opinion, dumb and childish. It's solely based on "what ifs" while you ignore the more obvious facts of the story. And what's pissing me off most of all is that I'm actually agreeing with KHarvey.

The facts of the story is that a child died because of parental negligence. Those are the facts. Whether it was purely accidental or premeditated isn't conclusive.

But at the end of the day a kid died on her watch because of her utter incompetence as a parent. That level of ineptness is inexcusable in my opinion.

Parenting isn't a fucking joke to me. Too many people who shouldn't be parents are parents and it pisses me off. It's unquestionably(to me anyways) the most serious job on the planet. You can't have fuck ups like these without some consequences in my opinion.

it was a horrible accident, nothing more, nothing less.

Why are people so sure of this? I don't know either way personally. Not until this case is concluded properly.

We shouldn't pretend like parents haven't tried to get rid of their kids in elaborate ways before. It's happened a lot.

[Juancho9]

The facts of the story is that a child died because of parental negligence. Those are the facts. Whether it was purely accidental or premeditated isn't conclusive. But at the end of the day a kid died on her watch because of her utter incompetence as a parent. That level of ineptness is inexcusable in my opinion. Parenting isn't a fucking joke to me. Too many people who shouldn't be parents are parents and it pisses me off. It's unquestionably(to me anyways) the most serious job on the planet. You can't have fuck ups like these without some consequences in my opinion.

What do you think this mothers response would be if you told her all of this? I'm curious.

[Forceatowulf]

What do you think this mothers response would be if you told her all of this? I'm curious.

Whether she did this on accident or did it on purpose I'm sure she would burst with outrage. Means nothing really.

[Zoe]

Whether she did this on accident or did it on purpose I'm sure she would burst with outrage. Means nothing really.

this guy didn't have any rage

[BladeoftheImmortal]

This happens to 20 parents a year roughly out of all the parents in the country. It's not exactly like this is a "it could happen to anyone" thing. Clearly this happens to an insanely small percentage of parents out there. As I said before, in this case it's pretty clear the mother didn't have any kind of ill-intent, but that doesn't mean that she should be able to walk away from this without any ramifications. Should she be allowed to have more kids in the future? Surely she wouldn't make the same mistake twice, right? Is she mentally fit to continue teaching other kids? Obviously the mother is punishing herself, but that doesn't change the fact that a kid is now dead and it's her fault entirely. It's "her brain" that failed. Locking her up isn't the answer, but declaring that she can't have kids anymore and can't teach anymore or something doesn't seem too crazy to me. I get it, I'm a monster...blah blah. Just because the accidental death of her kid is tragic doesn't mean we just leave the mother alone and let her deal with it herself. She clearly had mental problems before, and surely it's worse now. She's not guilty of a crime, but she should need to go through mental therapy to determine if there are deeper problems at play. Sorry that that opinion offends you.

I think the point is that of the 20 people this happens to, it could be anyone that accidentally does it.

And damn, that washington post story made me cry, that is what you call superb journalism.

[Napoleonthechimp]

He is totally right in that it is possible that someone of an unstable mental state would do such a thing on purpose. The thought of one of those persons hearing about the possibility of getting off scott free with the murder of his/her child is kind of uneasing.

I am almost positive this happened in an old CSI episode. I can't remember how the baby died but the father put the baby's body in the car and pretended like he left it in the back seat.

[789shadow]

No, it isn't easy to do. There's never been a moment when I didn't know my daughter was in the back seat. No matter how tired or stressed I've been, I've never lost track of her. It's not easy to do.

Your anecdotal evidence is completely worthless.

I am almost positive this happened in an old CSI episode. I can't remember how the baby died but the father put the baby's body in the car and pretended like he left it in the back seat.

Season 4 Episode 4.

[Mammoth Jones]

Except you dont understand the knife story. She abandoned her daughter BEFORE getting stabbed.

Tough titty. Let's keep that discussion to that thread. This is an entirely different situation, circumstance.

[EYEL1NER]

Why are people so sure of this? I don't know either way personally. Not until this case is concluded properly. We shouldn't pretend like parents haven't tried to get rid of their kids in elaborate ways before. It's happened a lot.

Well you think that prisons are there to punish people, so it shouldn't be any surprise that you think we should all assume she is guilty before it has been proven.

Innocent until proven guilty?
Psshaw. Lock the baby-killer up!

[Monocle]

Anyone who believes a person should be punished for making an honest mistake isn't thinking clearly. It's natural to be angry at people whose mental lapses have caused great harm, but it would be pointless and perverse to intensify someone's suffering and treat them as a risk to public safety just because they were a victim of coincidence. Why is it so difficult for some of you to understand that unforeseeable, unpreventable mistakes are real things that actually happen to intelligent and responsible people? Do you fancy we all live inside a magical orb where every aspect of everything that ever enters our lives is under human control?

The fact is that no person is immune to accidents of chance. Sometimes horrible things happen and no one is truly to blame. The idea that it's correct to imprison the parents we've been discussing presupposes that they have a problem that needs to be corrected, or that they're more of a threat to the safety of others than your average person, or that they had more control than they chose to exercise in the critical moments before their error. Yet we know that in many cases none of these conditions apply.

Being more careful won't prevent all accidents because not all accidents are caused by carelessness, and no person can maintain perfect vigilance at all times. Fear of punishment certainly won't stop people from making mistakes, because we're not flawless machines who can respond appropriately to every situation life throws at us.

Some of the responses in this thread really reinforce the quote I posted earlier about people needing to believe that random catastrophes can be averted.

[Flo_Evans]

As a father (who drops his 1 year old off at daycare every day) fuck this lady.

a) if you are that stressed and tired don't fucking drive your 2 ton death machine around and endager everyone else.

b) there is NO way I could see this happening to me. No way.