[marrec]

Incorrect. I have bartender and waiting friends in Cleveland bring home over a grand a week. If you're going to make a point...research it first.

Incorrect. I have a bartender and waiting friends in Cincinnati that bring home under 250 dollars a week. If you're going to make a counter-point...don't make it anecdotal.

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

Good Lord at all the poor assholes. If you're in the US, you tip. If you're not in the US, congratulations, your country has a compensation plan for servers that isn't stupid.

If you're in the US and you don't want to tip, go to McDonald's with all the other poors and be happy. Or stay your broke ass at home and reconsider your life.

[LowKeyedUp]

Incorrect. I have a bartender and waiting friends in Cincinnati that bring home under 250 dollars a week. If you're going to make a counter-point...don't make it anecdotal.

Fact: there are many places in which servers make tons of money. Fact: it is really rude to go to those places and not tip. Fact: servers expect tips in the U.S.

[DY_nasty]

Incorrect. I have bartender and waiting friends in Cleveland bring home over a grand a week. If you're going to make a point...research it first.

I'm not talking about the guys who bring in a grand. I'm talking about the guys who claim that these tips are the only things keeping the lights on.

That's bullshit. That can go anywhere - with every "MY FRIEND brings in 1,000" you have a "MYYYY FRIEND brings in 40 bucks"

[SmokyDave]

This topic has made me feel like I'm the only guy in England that routinely tips 20% on meals and taxi rides. I do take issue with the way the US seems to keep wages for waiters artificially low but I have no issue with tipping people in general.

[CommonSense]

Incorrect. I have a bartender and waiting friends in Cincinnati that bring home under 250 dollars a week. If you're going to make a counter-point...don't make it anecdotal.

Obviously it depends where you work....but to blanket say 3rd shift janitors make more than anybody in the service field is flat out wrong.

Also if you don't want to tip then go to places where you order at the counter....there I said it.

[Fusebox]

Uh because it's a grand in tips?

So are we supposed to be tipping because servers are poor, or are our wages just making them all fat cats pulling $1k a week??

[CommonSense]

So are we supposed to be tipping because servers are poor, or are are wages just making them all fat cats pulling $1k a week??

If you are sitting on your ass and having someone run around for YOU...you should tip. Go to BK if you want to be a bum.

[DY_nasty]

Obviously it depends where you work....but to blanket say 3rd shift janitors make more than anybody in the service field is flat out wrong. Also if you don't want to tip then go to places where you order at the counter....there I said it.

That's not what I said at all. I keep reiterating that the idea that these tips can be the only thing between getting through college and utter poverty is just ridiculous. To the waiter that can't make ends meet - you can probably find a better job more suited to your needs at the unemployment office.

[LowKeyedUp]

That's not what I said at all. I keep reiterating that the idea that these tips can be the only thing between getting through college and utter poverty is just ridiculous. To the waiter that can't make ends meet - you can probably find a better job more suited to your needs at the unemployment office.

I want to live in your universe.

[CommonSense]

That's not what I said at all. I keep reiterating that the idea that these tips can be the only thing between getting through college and utter poverty is just ridiculous. To the waiter that can't make ends meet - you can probably find a better job more suited to your needs at the unemployment office.

Yes because those decent jobs that accomodate a college schedule grow on trees.

[Fusebox]

If you are sitting on your ass and having someone run around for YOU...you should tip. Go to BK if you want to be a bum.

You misunderstand. I ALWAYS tip for good service, but I resent the culture you guys have created where it's assumed I'm required to give 20% minimum no matter what just because my waiter is poverty stricken. Sort your pay-rates out.

[DY_nasty]

If you are sitting on your ass and having someone run around for YOU...you should tip. Go to BK if you want to be a bum.

I'm not even saying don't tip. I'm just saying that people need to stop acting like they're entitled to the shit.

[LowKeyedUp]

I'm not even saying don't tip. I'm just saying that people need to stop acting like they're entitled to the shit.

If they do a good job they ARE entitled to it. That's the way it works.

[CommonSense]

I'm not even saying don't tip. I'm just saying that people need to stop acting like they're entitled to the shit.

That wasn't directed at you. I respectfully disagree with your jobs point...this was for people who keep saying they never tip.

[CommonSense]

You misunderstand. I ALWAYS tip for good service, but I resent the culture you guys have created where it's assumed I'm required to give 20% minimum no matter what just because my waiter is poverty stricken. Sort your pay-rates out.

This culture was in place well before I got here.

[Woody Invincible]

So it's your own fault for becoming a server in the first place. Got it.

Um, yeah. Do you think you wake up one morning with server clothes on and now you're magically a server?

[DY_nasty]

If they do a good job the ARE entitled to it. That's the way it works.

When did I say otherwise?

And maybe the job wasn't that good? This is exacty why I don't tip at bars until I'm picking up my tab. If you're waiting on just the tip and your quality of service changes because of it, then fuck you - there are good people out there that will do you right regardless of what you leave on the table. My tip is for them, not the lazy, entitled assholes that want to stereotype and profile me before I even order.

[Dead Man]

This culture was in place well before I got here.

1. Start with a cage containing five apes. In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put stairs under it. Before long, an ape will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. 2. As soon as the ape touches the stairs, spray all the apes with cold water. After a while, another ape makes an attempt with the same result - all the apes are sprayed with cold water. 3. Turn off the cold water. If, later, another ape tries to climb the stairs, the other apes will try to prevent it even though no water sprays at them. 4. Now, remove one ape from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new ape sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his horror, all of the apes attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted. 5. Next, remove another of the original five apes and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. 6. Again, replace a third original ape with a new one. The new one makes it to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four apes that beat him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why they are participating in the beating of the newest ape. 7. After replacing the fourth and fifth original apes, all the apes which have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, no ape ever again approaches the stairs. Why not? BECAUSE that's the way it's always been done around here.

Right?

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

To the waiter that can't make ends meet - you can probably find a better job more suited to your needs at the unemployment office.

Oh yes! Why don't they just think to look for a job that meets their needs? Who can't get a good job in this wonderful economy? Look at all the companies hiring! Look at all the companies hiring for night shifts because they have to go to school during the day! Thank you, Mr. DY_nasty, for sharing your wisdom! You are a gentleman and a scholar! Kudos, sir! Kudos!

[DY_nasty]

Yes because those decent jobs that accomodate a college schedule grow on trees.

Not every college kid must be a waiter or die.

But some college kids would rather die than get certain less flattering jobs. They need to get over themselves.

Oh yes! Why don't they just think to look for a job that meets their needs? Who can't get a good job in this wonderful economy? Look at all the companies hiring! Look at all the companies hiring for night shifts because they have to go to school during the day! Thank you, Mr. DY_nasty, for sharing your wisdom! You are a gentleman and a scholar! Kudos, sir! Kudos!

The only places hiring are TGIFriday's and Outback now?

mah gawd

[sikkinixx]

20% as standard is crazy. That's approaching double the tax rate here in BC (12%). I'm usually ~15% if it;s good service, 10% if not. Add it to the price of the menu so I don't feel like I'm being gouged an extra third on top of menu prices after tax and tip.

My grandpa tips at McD's or A&W, which is always funny since the people there don't know what to do when he hands them $2 for getting him his food.

[CommonSense]

When did I say otherwise? And maybe the job wasn't that good? This is exacty why I don't tip at bars until I'm picking up my tab. If you're waiting on just the tip and your quality of service changes because of it, then fuck you - there are good people out there that will do you right regardless of what you leave on the table. My tip is for them, not the lazy, entitled assholes that want to stereotype and profile me before I even order.

Ok now this I get. I do the same...I run a tab. I have had times as classier establishments where my color has effected my service. I fully endorse not tipping if you are ignored over the 15 40 year old divorced assholes saying nasty shit to the 22 year old behind the bar.

[Sethos]

Tips? My ass, glad I live in a country where that's not common.

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

get certain less flattering jobs.

Haha! Yes, because being a waiter is so flattering and wonderful. Look at those college students with their high standards, serving food to morons. All high and mighty, they deserve to be taken down a notch.

You don't have a clue about anything, do you?

[Woody Invincible]

I understand tipping and how it works. I don't really agree with it for the most part. You know what I do? I hardly eat out at these places. When I do, I tip as I'm expected, but damn if I'm not trying to nitpick to find reasons to lower the tip. The funny thing is, I never have to long hard to find reasons. Most servers suck and just expect you tho throw that money at them. That's why the system sucks, it is not a tip for good service anymore, it's just more money tacked onto the bill.

[marrec]

Fact: there are many places in which servers make tons of money. Fact: it is really rude to go to those places and not tip. Fact: servers expect tips in the U.S.

You misunderstand me, I tip for good service. But there is no way I give a blanket 15% to everyone. If you're bad at your job, you don't get a tip regardless of what you expect.

[DY_nasty]

Haha! Yes, because being a waiter is so flattering and wonderful. Look at those college students with their high standards, serving food to morons. All high and mighty, they deserve to be taken down a notch. You don't have a clue about anything, do you?

Its a hell of a lot more flattering than working in a UPS warehouse or scrubbing toilets.

[CommonSense]

Its a hell of a lot more flattering than working in a UPS warehouse or scrubbing toilets.

I would rather work for UPS then wait on people....seems so hard to smile all the time.

[Woody Invincible]

Its a hell of a lot more flattering than working in a UPS warehouse or scrubbing toilets.

Funny you say that. In college, instead of being a waiter with an income based on donations, I worked for a office cleaning crew. It is a job made for college kids.

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

Its a hell of a lot more flattering than working in a UPS warehouse or scrubbing toilets.

Your ignorance of these jobs is overwhelming. Do you have a job? Have you ever had a job?

[Sephiroth503]

This topic has made me feel like I'm the only guy in England that routinely tips 20% on meals and taxi rides. I do take issue with the way the US seems to keep wages for waiters artificially low but I have no issue with tipping people in general.

I'm much the same (Ireland though, no UK) and generally tip between the 15-20% range, but that's purely for a meal, taxi, maybe a haircut/shave. I wouldn't tip someone for giving me a cup of coffee, though saying that you usually get your coffee at the till and don't need someone to come down and bring it to you.

And at that the tip is for good job/service, not some standard tip that simply must be given.

[Chuck Norris]

I never tip. Maybe if I get some change I'll drop 50 cents in the tip jar

[marrec]

I'm much the same (Ireland though, no UK) and generally tip between the 15-20% range, but that's purely for a meal, taxi, maybe a haircut/shave. I wouldn't tip someone for giving me a cup of coffee, though saying that you usually get your coffee at the till and don't need someone to come down and bring it to you. And at that the tip is for good job/service, not some standard tip that simply must be given.

Most servers should be striving to do as best a job as possible, as should anyone in any line of work. If you are below what should be the default, then I will not tip you. You're not going to get a default gratuity for being a shit server.

[PARANO1A]

As a non American I'll also add that the cash tip society doesn't do your tax revenue any favours. It adds to inflation without going back to government revenue. Might not seem a huge deal at a micro level but it's really not a great strategy for building a stable economy to have masses of untaxed salaries and spending.

It's not cheap to expect a $X meal to pay for expenses at wherever I'm dining, including staffing (and electricity and dishwashing liquid, etc)... You're not "running around after me", you're doing your damned job. If you impress me I'll tip you... But don't pretend the price is cheap if I'm expected to add a fixed percentage. Add it to the listed cost and pay a living wage like the rest of the world.

[DY_nasty]

Your ignorance of these jobs is overwhelming. Do you have a job? Have you ever had a job?

I worked two jobs while playing a full college basketball schedule for 3 years.

When I wasn't working as a personal trainer, I scrubbed toilets. Most college kids think that because they're in college, they should never have to scrub toilets. Ask for the job - they'd rather give a college kid the hours than some junkie off the street.

Before I got college, I worked two jobs as I recovering from a major knee surgery. I sold carpet on commission and I worked worked a mail room for an office building.

Is waiting all you know? There's more jobs than just that out there. But be mad. Okay.

Funny you say that. In college, instead of being a waiter with an income based on donations, I worked for a office cleaning crew. It is a job made for college kids.

Damn straight.

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

Is waiting all you know? There's more jobs than just that out there. But be mad. Okay.

Haha, I've never waited and I'm not mad. But good job for trying.

You scrubbed toilets? Where? For how many hours a week? What was your schedule? How did you manage to work around your school schedule and your job as a personal trainer?

Because, you see, "scrubbing toilets" isn't a job that you can either ask for or get. The only people who think that it is are people who are clueless about how the actual mechanics of getting a job work.

Most college kids think that because they're in college, they should never have to scrub toilets.

Really? Most college kids think that?

[marrec]

Haha, I've never waited and I'm not mad. But good job for trying. You scrubbed toilets? Where? For how many hours a week? What was your schedule? How did you manage to work around your school schedule and your job as a personal trainer? Because, you see, "scrubbing toilets" isn't a job that you can either ask for or get. The only people who think that it is are people who are clueless about the actual mechanics of getting a job work.

You're right!

Lets make this about DY being a Janitor!

Tell me DY, who is your daddy, and what does he do?

[Emily Chu]

15%

20% ?

in this economy ?

this is why I just get it to go

[Zoe]

15% 20% ? in this economy ? this is why I just get it to go

Careful, don't want to start a debate over whether to tip the carry-out person.

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

You're right! Lets make this about DY being a Janitor!

"Scrubbing toilets" is the generic response clueless people give about the unemployed or underemployed. They imagine that there are tons of these jobs everywhere, and the only reason people don't work them is because they think they're too good.

[DY_nasty]

. Haha, I've never waited and I'm not mad. But good job for trying. You scrubbed toilets? Where? For how many hours a week? What was your schedule? How did you manage to work around your school schedule and your job as a personal trainer? Because, you see, "scrubbing toilets" isn't a job that you can either ask for or get. The only people who think that it is are people who are clueless about the actual mechanics of getting a job work.

are you high?

scrubbing toilets = janitorial work. cleaning crew, etc. duh?
I got 20-30 hours from that while pretty much making my own schedule. Compared to the guys that'd normally show up for that job, I looked super clean - they did whatever they could to keep me. The personal trainer gig worked great because I could get my own workout in while getting paid and I got to skip weight lifting and conditioning with my team - i just had to worry about practice and games.

And yeah... you can ask. Just start with your local temp agencies and then once you get a get decent rep through them, you can get on with that company directly.

But continue to be mad. and high. or whatever you are.

You're right! Lets make this about DY being a Janitor!

lol

its a shitty job, but it pays a lot better than people think.

Really? Most college kids think that?

Definitely.

People go to college because they don't want those kinds of jobs.

[marrec]

"Scrubbing toilets" is the generic response clueless people give about the unemployed or underemployed. They imagine that there are tons of these jobs everywhere, and the only reason people don't work them is because they think they're too good.

It's also a self deprecating way some Janitors use to describe their jobs. See: My Mother for a time.

[Emily Chu]

Careful, don't want to start a debate over whether to tip the carry-out person.

Well by "to go" I mean I go there and just pick it up

no tip no fuss

Hardly ever get delivery if it means I have to pay extra

[Dragon]

My question in this thread is, how much of this is because of the economic differences between blacks and other people. I know if I had less money, I'd tip less money. I don't know that it's an actual stereotype as much as a side effect of something else.

[Zoe]

Well by "to go" I mean I go there and just pick it up no tip no fuss Hardly ever get delivery if it means I have to pay extra

That's what I meant too. Some people tip the person who is holding onto your food.

[marrec]

That's what I meant too. Some people tip the person who is holding onto your food.

"Here's a fiver for holding that food so well... you sure had a nice grip on my Pizza box."

[PlayerReady]

Does anyone remember this story (man arrested for not tipping)

http://helenair.com/news/national/le...97f103e27.html

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

scrubbing toilets = janitorial work. cleaning crew, etc. duh?

Obviously.

The point being, there isn't enough janitorial work for everyone, especially if they don't have free time during the day. How many others did you work with? How many servers are there in the average restaurant? Multiply that by how many restaurants there are in the average city. "Duh, just get a job scrubbing toilets" is not a solution for most people.

And how did this get away from poor assholes who are too broke to tip? I guess I'm partly responsible.

Tip or stay home.

[DY_nasty]

Obviously. The point being, there isn't enough janitorial work for everyone, especially if they don't have free time during the day. How many others did you work with? How many servers are there in the average restaurant? Multiply that by how many restaurants there are in the average city. "Duh, just get a job scrubbing toilets" is not a solution for most people.

That's not even what I said. I didn't suggest that everyone be a janitor - I stated that waiting is far from being the only job opportunity for the down and out or college kid.

Also, the majority janitorial jobs and cleaning crew shifts work at night AND they'd rather hire a cleaned up college kid than the usual types of guys that they get.

That's also a ridiculous point too man.. "multiply those opportunities by restaurants and you get X openings!" that's not how employment works. And its damn sure not how you get an optimal job situation.

And how did this get away from poor assholes who are too broke to tip? I guess I'm partly responsible.

Yeah, it came from people suggesting that the only way that they keep lights on or get through college is tip money. If you're lifestyle is based on donations that essentially come from a suggestion and an unwritten rule, then you're probably doing it wrong. You're not entitled to a tip. If you want a stable income, get a job with a stable income - most people who can get a job as a waiter can get a job somewhere else too for the simple fact that they can smile, hold stuff, and remember things while looking somewhat decent and talking like they're not a 4th grader.