[JdFoX187]

Was it the noob lock on guns, the gigantic hit boxes or the horrible dual wielding that made it the best, i forget.

Noob lock on guns? Really dude? That's the best criticism you can come up with? Yes, it had its issues, but so do the other games. I can say this, it didn't have annoying, near game-breaking armor abilities like Jetpack or Active Camo. It didn't have inconsistent equipment that was the definition of "noob" entitlement. Shoot a guy three times, he hits a button and shits out a regen and then kills you. Skill(tm). It didn't have ridiculously over-powered vehicles or an even more ridiculously over-powered and broken anti-vehicle weapon.

It did have an inconsistent shotgun that worked only for the host, broken button combos and the sword, which as someone who used it frequently, was broken. Dual wielding wasn't an issue and actually gave a variety to the combat that hasn't been seen since. It also had the best maps in the whole damn series that have yet to be topped. And even when Bungle tried to remake them, they ended up fucking them up. Also, it had the best Battle Rifle in the series.

[The Antitype]

The UNSC is deployed on a top scret mission into deep space but will cross paths with the Master Chief during the campaign.

Maybe it's just the legacy that the Alien movies left on me, but whenever I hear of military or corporate organization conducting 'top secret' missions, I usually think they're up to no good.

Halo has always had a pretty black-and-white take on the human military. Everybody involved is an honourable soldier, which makes sense in the context of the Earth fighting for its life. But the war for Earth has been over for awhile. Human nature might be kicking in, leading different entities on earth down some shady, self-motivated avenues (ie greed, power, whatever).

It would be interesting if the Chief crossed paths with these Spartan IVs and they WEREN'T particularly happy to see him. It would add some dimensions to the story AND it would make for some potentially epic battles of Master Chief - the old-school variant - taking on a bunch of the newer models. Like Arnold in Terminator taking on 5 T1000s at once.

[TheOddOne]

Maybe it's just the legacy that the Alien movies left on me, but whenever I hear of military or corporate organization conducting 'top secret' missions, I usually think they're up to no good. Halo has always had a pretty black-and-white take on the human military. Everybody involved is an honourable soldier, which makes sense in the context of the Earth fighting for its life. But the war for Earth has been over for awhile. Human nature might be kicking in, leading different entities on earth down some shady, self-motivated avenues (ie greed, power, whatever). It would be interesting if the Chief crossed paths with these Spartan IVs and they WEREN'T particularly happy to see him. It would add some dimensions to the story AND it would make for some potentially epic battles of Master Chief - the old-school variant - taking on a bunch of the newer models. Like Arnold in Terminator taking on 5 T1000s at once.

Have you read Glasslands yet? It will blow your mind.

[Dax01]

Halo has always had a pretty black-and-white take on the human military. Everybody involved is an honourable soldier, which makes sense in the context of the Earth fighting for its life. But the war for Earth has been over for awhile. Human nature might be kicking in, leading different entities on earth down some shady, self-motivated avenues (ie greed, power, whatever).

Are you talking about the games or the fiction overall? Because that's certainly not true for the latter, but you could make a good case about it for the former. However, there are instances in the games where it's not true.

Have you read Glasslands yet? It will blow your mind.

It's in every Halo novel. Not just Glasslands.

[TheOddOne]

Are you talking about the games or the fiction overall? Because that's certainly not true for the latter, but you could make a good case about it for the former. However, there are instances in the games where it's not true. It's in every Halo novel. Not just Glasslands.

Yeah, I know :P

But Glasslands would pretty much set him straight.

[The Antitype]

Are you talking about the games or the fiction overall? Because that's certainly not true for the latter, but you could make a good case about it for the former. However, there are instances in the games where it's not true. It's in every Halo novel. Not just Glasslands.

I'm speaking strictly to the games, as I haven't had the chance to explore the fiction outside it.

[szaromir]

Have you read Glasslands yet? It will blow your mind.

Yes, it will blow anyone's mind how bad and poorly fanfiction can be after reading Glasslands.

[TheOddOne]

Yes, it will blow anyone's mind how bad and poorly fanfiction can be after reading Glasslands.

Glasslands nuggets of information are intresting, but yeah the writing style is... not the best.

Prefer the Greg Bear books myself.

[The Antitype]

Halo 2 still has the best MP in the series.

No.

The only thing that Halo 2 did better than the other Halo games is that it unquestionably had the best maps. DLC helped Halo 3 and Reach, but neither matched the number of great maps in part 2.


....pretty much everything else was a mess though, and was much improved by Halo 3 and Halo: Reach.

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Noob lock on guns? Really dude? That's the best criticism you can come up with?

Yes, taking down vehicles stopped being about skill and became picking up rockets and having the vehicles anywhere on screen.

H1 PC fucked the shit out of the baby-bubu shit H2 was.

[GraveHorizon]

Glasslands nuggets of information are intresting, but yeah the writing style is... not the best. Prefer the Greg Bear books myself.

I never got to read any of the newest ones, I need to check them out from the library sometime. Are they as good as The Fall of Reach or Ghosts of Onyx? Or even Contact Harvest? I loved Contact Harvest for its depiction of Dadab and Lighter Than Some, and the background of the universe.

[AHappyPanda]

Yes, taking down vehicles stopped being about skill and became picking up rockets and having the vehicles anywhere on screen. H1 PC fucked the shit out of the baby-bubu shit H2 was.

So you used vehicles regularly I assume? It all makes sense now.

[thekad]

This game is starting to sound really bad...

[GarthVaderUK]

This game is starting to sound really bad...

How so?

[szaromir]

I never got to read any of the newest ones, I need to check them out from the library sometime. Are they as good as The Fall of Reach or Ghosts of Onyx? Or even Contact Harvest? I loved Contact Harvest for its depiction of Dadab and Lighter Than Some, and the background of the universe.

Cryptum and Primordium are the best pieces of Halo fiction out there. Far better than anything else. Cole Protocol is also very enjoyable. I was very displeased with Glasslands though.

[thekad]

How so?

Gameinformer’s podcast with Josh Holmes write-up: Forge will be coming back, he could not say much about it. He could not confirm if Forge was like Reach (Forge World) or Halo 3 (individual multiplayer maps). Really avoided the criticism of how Halo is taking too many cues from Call of Duty. “Feels like Halo”. Weapon balance is really important and put a lot of emphasis on it. Even if the other player has weapons that you have not unlocked yet. Scavenging weapons on the battlefield is still possible, so they are not locked away by the progression system. Each weapon slot (primary and secondary) have different categories of weapons, within the primary weapon slot you have the biggest variety. Those breakdown in different roles and engagements (close, mid and longer range weapons etc). Internally he has noticed that people build their loadouts around the armor abilities. Duel Wielding was removed because of balance, added unwanted complexity to multiplayer. There is a major connection points between campaign and Spartan Ops (like: The chief crossing paths with Infinity), but the stories of both of those diverge in their own direction. Josh still could not say how they are going to roll out Spartan Ops. Cosmetic changes to armor, like Reach, are back. Also, female Spartans are back. They have put focus on Easter Eggs and Skulls that, like previous games, focus on the back story and the bigger fiction. There are no plans to add bots to multiplayer. They acknowledge the strength of weekly and daily challenges, they however can’t talk about what system might be replacing them, but it will be coming back in some form. There are no plans to support dedicated servers, they have a “silky smooth netcode”. Player skill is important in matchmaking, but they have added telegraphing systems have been added to help out new players. Josh avoided the question about the new enemy we will be facing in Halo 4 (Understandable because of 343 stance on giving little campaign info and letting the player experience it themselves).

.

[Ken]

.

What's bad about it?

[Recarpo]

.

Posting a list without any sort of criticism doesn't tell us a whole lot about what you don't like about it.

Edit: should have reloaded the page after reading the list. Ken beat me to it.

[JdFoX187]

No. The only thing that Halo 2 did better than the other Halo games is that it unquestionably had the best maps. DLC helped Halo 3 and Reach, but neither matched the number of great maps in part 2. ....pretty much everything else was a mess though, and was much improved by Halo 3 and Halo: Reach.

The same Halo 3 that has the worst hit detection this side of pre-patched Gears of War 2? Halo 3's maps were utter shit and the only decent thing to come from its DLC was Standoff, which had its own laundry list of issues and Avalanche, which is a pale comparison to its predecessor.

Bungle kept adding more and more shit to Halo 3 and Reach and the games suffered for it.

Yes, taking down vehicles stopped being about skill and became picking up rockets and having the vehicles anywhere on screen. H1 PC fucked the shit out of the baby-bubu shit H2 was.

Yeah, like the laser really takes skill. Let me pick up this weapon that is so easy to aim I can do it in my sleep and then shoot a direct sniper shot of a blast at a vehicle that will blow up everything short of a scorpion or wraith. Some true skill right there. And then there's the missile pod that also had the same lock-on capabilities as the Halo 2 rocket. And we can't forget the Plasma Launcher in Reach that does the same thing.

Halo: CE PC was fucked, you're right about that. Terrible netcode, an overpowered banshee that makes the Reach iteration blush and terrible maps.

[Deadly Cyclone]

This game is starting to sound really bad...

Oh man, this thread delivers.

[thekad]

What's bad about it?

random weapon spawns, no dual wielding, weapon "loadouts," unlocking weapons, and in general sounding terrible

[Deadly Cyclone]

random weapon spawns, no dual wielding, weapon "loadouts," unlocking weapons, and in general sounding terrible

Weapons spawns aren't 100% random.
Dual wielding was awful.
Weapon load outs are set per map, and will include good weapons people want to use like the BR.
Weapons load outs will contain weapons before you unlock them, so you won't be stuck without a BR or DMR for a long time.

Basically, let's wait until we see the full reveal.

[thekad]

"It's not as bad as it sounds!" is not exactly a ringing endorsement.

[NullPointer]

random weapon spawns, no dual wielding, weapon "loadouts," unlocking weapons, and in general sounding terrible

On the bright side we'll hopefully see an end of BR vs AR arguments as it looks like you'll choose what you start out with.

[GhaleonEB]

random weapon spawns, no dual wielding, weapon "loadouts," unlocking weapons, and in general sounding terrible

Removing dual wielding was a good idea in ODST and Reach, the series is better off without it. Better weapon balance, cleaner gameplay; it's going to be tough enough to balance as it is

[Overdoziz]

On the bright side we'll hopefully see an end of BR vs AR arguments as it looks like you'll choose what you start out with.

Remove AR, everybody wins!

[NullPointer]

Remove AR, everybody wins!

[GarthVaderUK]

Glad to see the back of dual wielding (again).

[Alienshogun]

Remove AR, everybody wins!

Just replace it with an Armorlock/barrier penetrating automatic needle machine gun and be done with it.


Daxies all over the world just "squeeeeeeed" with delight.

[Satchel]

Disappointed in no bots.

After the Xbox live server got shut down for the OG Xbox, I really only want mp games with bots.

What happens when ms shuts down live for the 360? One Half of most of my game become unusable? Not good enough

This is why Gears 3 will remain the best package available on 360.

[shinobi602]

Duel Wielding was removed because of balance, added unwanted complexity to multiplayer.

lol wut

[NullPointer]

lol wut

Make a weapon that's balanced for single and dual wielding. Then balance it with every other combination of weapons that can be either single or dual wielded.

Not so easy, if not impossible or utterly counter-intuitive.

[TheOddOne]

This game is starting to sound really bad...

Nothing about that is suprising to say the least and all sounds pretty standard Halo like.

[Alienshogun]

I wanna dual wield the pistol and a plasma pistol. That won't be broken. ;)

[Striker]

Make a weapon that's balanced for single and dual wielding. Then balance it with every other combination of weapons that can be either single or dual wielded. Not so easy, if not impossible or utterly counter-intuitive.

The only weapon in Halo 2 dual wielding that should not have been from the start, and was basically useless throughout was the Needler. Other than that, I liked it. It offered a strong up close balance to a Sword, Shotgun, or skilled BR user.

I certainly don't agree removing dual wielding improved the gameplay balance, or the weapon sandbox. Are we really suggesting the Assault Rifle or Plasma Repeater fixed the issue? There's been larger weapon issues than a "half" gun, like the god awful Spartan Laser, which is somehow returning in Halo 4.

[Silly.Mikey]

No. The only thing that Halo 2 did better than the other Halo games is that it unquestionably had the best maps. DLC helped Halo 3 and Reach, but neither matched the number of great maps in part 2. ....pretty much everything else was a mess though, and was much improved by Halo 3 and Halo: Reach.

Absolutely. The maps are the best part of that game. Halo3 and Reach absolutely destroy it otherwise. Just play Headlong on Reach and you see what Halo2 should have played like.

Halo2 was a god damn mess. Lock on guns, unavoidable PP shots, huge hit-boxes, useless human grenades, noob-combo galore, dual wielding which hurt the game more than helped, it was the MOST noob friendly Halo game they made out of all of them and look at that, its the best he says. Only thing i miss from 2 are the maps and the BR, the rest imo, they can put in the garbage.

[JdFoX187]

Absolutely. The maps are the best part of that game. Halo3 and Reach absolutely destroy it otherwise. Just play Headlong on Reach and you see what Halo2 should have played like. Halo2 was a god damn mess. Lock on guns, unavoidable PP shots, huge hit-boxes, useless human grenades, noob-combo galore, dual wielding which hurt the game more than helped, it was the MOST noob friendly Halo game they made out of all of them and look at that, its the best he says. Only thing i miss from 2 are the maps and the BR, the rest imo, they can put in the garbage.

Wow, calling everything about it a noob really cements your position.

[Clint Beastwood]

Disappointed in no bots. After the Xbox live server got shut down for the OG Xbox, I really only want mp games with bots. What happens when ms shuts down live for the 360? One Half of most of my game become unusable? Not good enough This is why Gears 3 will remain the best package available on 360.

How can it be the best package? Sure it has a ton of features, but the gameplay is shit.

You can have all the bulletpoints you want, but when your gameplay is a boring TPS, those bulletpoints are irrelevant.

[Recarpo]

Halo2 was a god damn mess. Lock on guns, unavoidable PP shots, huge hit-boxes, useless human grenades, noob-combo galore, dual wielding which hurt the game more than helped, it was the MOST noob friendly Halo game they made out of all of them and look at that, its the best he says. Only thing i miss from 2 are the maps and the BR, the rest imo, they can put in the garbage.

Am I the only one who loved the melee system in halo 2? It seems like that never comes up when people talk about it. Not just that your damage depending on if you were standing, running, or jumping, but the fact that you could actually avoid the melees of your opponent. It just made cqc so satisfying.

[Mammoth Jones]

As a guy that doesn't have hours and hours everyday to master every nuance of Halo MP I welcome most of these changes.

[JdFoX187]

Am I the only one who loved the melee system in halo 2? It seems like that never comes up when people talk about it. Not just that your damage depending on if you were standing, running, or jumping, but the fact that you could actually avoid the melees of your opponent. It just made cqc so satisfying.

Much better than the "fair" shit that we got in Halo 3 or the double-melee shit in Reach. But it's probably too noobish for some players because rushing at each other holding a trigger down and then meleeing someone is real skillful.

[higherARC05]

343 Industries has an AllStar team. Amazing visuals to be witnessed come E3!

Kevin Daziel-former Bungie 3d Artist
Kolby Jukes-former Bioware Character Artist on Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect3. Some of his work http://www.kolbyjukes.com/
Kenny Magnusson-former DICE Senior Lead Artist/Art diector, who worked on Battlefield 3,Mirrors Edge,Battlefield 2,Bad Company. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kenny-magnusson/3/a88/550
Nathan Moller-former Bioware Cinematic Designer on Mass Effect1 and Mass Effect 2
Gustavo Rasche Lead Environment Artist on God of War 1
Chris Hands Cinematic Environment Artist on God of War 3
Ryan Peterson Environment Artist on God of War 3 and God of War Ascension
Mike Murrill Background/Environment Artist on Uncharted 2
Vic DeLeon Senior Environment Artist on Halo 2,Halo 3,Halo Reach
Tim Diaz Environment Artist God of War 3
Wade Mulhern Visual Effects Artist/Cinematic Artist on God of War 2 and Environment artist on God of War 3
John Flath Senior Environment Artist on Darksiders 1/2
Chris Haluke Lead Designer and Lead Level Designer Killzone 3. Also Level Designer on Assassins Creed and Splinter Cell Chaoes Theory

[Silly.Mikey]

Wow, calling everything about it a noob really cements your position.

My position is very simple, its horrible and don't copy it in any way, unless its the maps or bringing the BR back.

[Shake Appeal]

"Silky smooth netcode" huh?

[Striker]

My position is very simple, its horrible and don't copy it in any way, unless its the maps or bringing the BR back.

Gametypes were pretty stout - Assault with sticky arming and planting, CTF without horrible return times, 3 Plots on set maps, and little things like flag and bomb contesting were massive for skirmish games. Creating smaller flag or bomb games for smaller maps so the objective returned faster also was really nice, and were completely absent in the later games. Overall, gametypes since have been utterly disappointing: instant arm Assault, VIP, Headhunter, Stockpile, etc.

The maps were great, too, but without that gameplay style they weren't as memorable.

[AHappyPanda]

Absolutely. The maps are the best part of that game. Halo3 and Reach absolutely destroy it otherwise. Just play Headlong on Reach and you see what Halo2 should have played like. Halo2 was a god damn mess. Lock on guns, unavoidable PP shots, huge hit-boxes, useless human grenades, noob-combo galore, dual wielding which hurt the game more than helped, it was the MOST noob friendly Halo game they made out of all of them and look at that, its the best he says. Only thing i miss from 2 are the maps and the BR, the rest imo, they can put in the garbage.

Noob friendly? I really wish people just played the Team Hardcore/MLG gametype and then they wouldn't have this "noob friendly" fantasy memory they have about Halo 2.

[Safe Bet]

They seem to (want to) create a faster Halo than before.. I don't think that this is what Halo needs.

May not be the mainstream's opinion, but...

I agree 100%.

[Silly.Mikey]

Gametypes were pretty stout - Assault with sticky arming and planting, CTF without horrible return times, 3 Plots on set maps, and little things like flag and bomb contesting were massive for skirmish games. Creating smaller flag or bomb games for smaller maps so the objective returned faster also was really nice, and were completely absent in the later games. Overall, gametypes since have been utterly disappointing: instant arm Assault, VIP, Headhunter, Stockpile, etc. The maps were great, too, but without that gameplay style they weren't as memorable.

Practically everything you mention can be customized by the user in 3 and Reach cant it? And Ive played Headlong quite a bit in Reach and its just as amazing as it was then. Even more for me cause i prefer Reach`s gameplay.

[dancrane212]

Hopefully that's what the basic level HUD ends up being, it looks Metroid Prime like.

aka It looks great

[op_ivy]

The only weapon in Halo 2 dual wielding that should not have been from the start, and was basically useless throughout was the Needler. Other than that, I liked it. It offered a strong up close balance to a Sword, Shotgun, or skilled BR user. I certainly don't agree removing dual wielding improved the gameplay balance, or the weapon sandbox. Are we really suggesting the Assault Rifle or Plasma Repeater fixed the issue? There's been larger weapon issues than a "half" gun, like the god awful Spartan Laser, which is somehow returning in Halo 4.

i don't think thats confirmed. louis wu stated he saw it in his preview of the game but latter wasnt sure if it was that, or the new rail gun. he only saw the outline in the HUD for the ordinance drop.