[Peff]

You don't give a jack shit about art, music, and direction of a game. This is fine. However, you need to realize that in this world there are people with a higher cultural level than you that are interested about there things.

Higher education refers to the stage of learning that occurs at universities, academies, colleges, seminaries and work. I am afraid that if you look at the resume of the people working in the art department of a game, you will find out that these people have a very high level of education.

[Uthred]

The real irony of all this "higher cultural level" higher education bollocks is that if have in fact covered culture and art in third level education you would be aware that the "high"/"low" cultural divide is an outdated and largely abandoned social construct. There is just culture. That sweet Rembrandt piece has as much cultural weight as that disturbing drawing of Ash having sex with Pikachu (actually the latter is arguably more culturally relevant).

[JonathanPower]

Sure there are people with "a higher cultural level"... And they appreciate DMC for what it is, a solid action game... Nothing more, nothing less... Saying one really liked the story in DMC 4 is begging to be laughed at...

Dude, you can try as much hard as you want to twist the sense of my words, but it's not gonna work. I already explained what I meant, so there is no need to repeat myself again. In addition, I don't give a jack shit about what you think is laughable or not. Since I am the one spending the money to buy the game, I want to buy something I know I will enjoy.

It works in the game's context, but he was talking about "art" in the loosest sense of the word.Like you'd need a PhD in Japanese literature to fully appreciate the "art" of DMC!

I am afraid that Esura got exactly my point.

[Nemesis_]

Higher education refers to the stage of learning that occurs at universities, academies, colleges, seminaries and work. I am afraid that if you look at the resume of the people working in the art department of a game, you will find out that these people have a very high level of education.

[ProfessorMoran]

That's funny because he is the chief creative ninja at the company. But then again he dares to touch the series without getting approval from NeoGAF, doesn't undermine his own work in PR and tries to be true to his vision. He's basically the Satan. Remember the original Devil May Cry game? That games strengths were equally in the level design, presentation and atmosphere as well as combat. After that game the series has thrown everything to the trash besides spectacular combat system, which is why I still consider the first game to be the best in the series.

He's not satan, he's an unlicensed ninja, what are his qualifications?

[Fredrik]

I actually liked Heavenly Sword, and I liked Enslaved too. So no DmC hate from me until I try the game for myself.

Hopefully Andy Serkis is involved in this though, with so many games that tries to be movies it's nice to know that there is at least one person who's capable to take video gaming past the worse-than B-movie-quality-acting that we're usually getting.

[JonathanPower]

Disagreeing with someone's stance is fine. Playing a card like "higher education" or "higher cultural level" (which is really just silly. You don't know anyone in this thread to make an assessment like that.) is really just an easy way out of an argument.

This is not an easy way out of an argument, this is just the impression that I get from reading ThoughtofSpeaking's replies. In contrast, your replies are very well written, you use proper English, and you provide valid argumentations. I get the opposite impression from reading your posts.

[sn00zer]

Cant wait for this game to be released....the OT will be amazing...I expect dissertation sized posts... and I imagine very few minds will be changed, those who already like the idea will like it, and those who dont will be proving they were right all along...and in the end people will come to realize DmC is a videogame, and that getting all worked up over a videogame is silly

[ezekial45]

Cant wait for this game to be released....the OT will be amazing...I expect dissertation sized posts... and I imagine very few minds will be changed, those who already like the idea will like it, and those who dont will be proving they were right all along...and in the end people will come to realize DmC is a videogame, and that getting all worked up over a videogame is silly

Everything except the last part will happen. This is NeoGAF, afterall.

[Skilletor]

This is not an easy way out of an argument, this is just the impression that I get from reading ThoughtofSpeaking's replies. In contrast, your replies are very well written, you use proper English, and you provide valid argumentations. I get the opposite impression from reading your posts.

You're judging one's "cultural level" based on posts made on a discussion board?

...it is to laugh.

[Criminal Upper]

[Dacvak]

I had no idea there were fans this invested in this series. I came to check out the trailer, but I stayed for the show.

That trailer, by the way, looks like its being marketed to twelve-year-old vampire kids. Were the other games aimed at a younger demographic, too? I only played the first one for a few hours at a friend's house one.

[Skilletor]

It's over 9000.

[Mr. B Natural]

"Usually the worst creative crimes are made when you're trying to make a game for someone else - some perceived demographic that, in all likelihood, doesn't actually exist."

Then why are you making a video game?

Then why are you making a sequel to a video game IP?

Then why are you making an artistically unnecessary sequel to a video game IP?

Then why are you making an artistically unnecessary sequel to a video game IP that is clearly trying to appease the nostalgic man-child and teen male demographic?

[GuardianE]

This is not an easy way out of an argument, this is just the impression that I get from reading ThoughtofSpeaking's replies. In contrast, your replies are very well written, you use proper English, and you provide valid argumentations. I get the opposite impression from reading your posts.

At the end of the day, we're all idly posting on the internet, and judgments like "higher culture" based on irate posts are really just overly dismissive. I think that some points could have been better expanded (and now have been), but on a public internet forum, you're going to encounter curt answers. I certainly understand the verbally combative nature of this thread, but it doesn't change the fact that culture and art are pretty much impossible to quantify/qualify.

Cant wait for this game to be released....the OT will be amazing...I expect dissertation sized posts... and I imagine very few minds will be changed, those who already like the idea will like it, and those who dont will be proving they were right all along...and in the end people will come to realize DmC is a videogame, and that getting all worked up over a videogame is silly

It's not silly, and that argument always disappoints me when it's posted on NeoGAF. Maybe it's silly to you, but everything is relative. Really, we shouldn't be getting worked up over anything beneath recovering from a natural disaster or helping impoverished nations, right? You place value on certain things, and I'll place value on different things.

If I were to tell an extreme hardcore football fan, "Hey! It's just a game, dude. You're being silly." after his team lost, I could very well expect a punch in the face. He values things differently, but I'm not going to judge it because that's what's silly.

Everything except the last part will happen. This is NeoGAF, afterall.

We get it. You're better than everyone else on these boards because you don't allow yourself to stoop to participating in these exhaustive discussions and debates regarding a simple video game. How dare we question a suspect choice of developer and this disconcerting trend in Westernizing seemingly every staple Japanese IP? How dare we have enough of a vested interest to care? To remain critical and skeptical? To evaluate based on the media that has been showcased thus far... nevermind the fact that this media has been released with the specific goal of stirring up conversation and judgments.

Some of us aren't passive. Sorry that makes you think we're beneath you.

[JonathanPower]

The real irony of all this "higher cultural level" higher education bollocks is that if you have in fact covered culture and art in third level education, you would be aware that the "high"/"low" cultural divide is an outdated and largely abandoned social construct. There is just culture. That sweet Rembrandt piece has as much cultural weight as that disturbing drawing of Ash having sex with Pikachu (actually the latter is arguably more culturally relevant).

Fixed. I am not even an English native speaker and I need to fix your grammar in order to understand the sense of your post. This is the real irony ;)

[Mr. B Natural]

The real irony of all this "higher cultural level" higher education bollocks is that if have in fact covered culture and art in third level education you would be aware that the "high"/"low" cultural divide is an outdated and largely abandoned social construct. There is just culture. That sweet Rembrandt piece has as much cultural weight as that disturbing drawing of Ash having sex with Pikachu (actually the latter is arguably more culturally relevant).

This is not an abandoned construct at all, you're just not a part of one half of it. The divide (as are most divides these days be it political, social, economical, etc) are more prominent than ever. We live in bubbles. Bubbles so thick we don't even see the other side...have no idea it exists. Case in point, this nonsensical post.

[R_thanatos]

Lol the OT for this game will be a mess that will need to be mod-followed ..i can already see the meldown on both sizes.

Now About Tameem : that 's only just PR control , This situation kind of remind me enslaved...


About the Game: I don't think they got What made dmc 3 so great and why i wasn't disapointed in DMC 4 .

the design encounter in DMC4 while classic had several instances that couldn't be possible On PS2 IMO... In that way it felt like a legitimate Hd version of something i enjoy..

This game however changed way too many thing to be remotly in the same universe

If this wasn't named Dmc i wouldn't play it because the pedigree of the dev spaoke for them
( not to mention the facts we can gather from trailers, as dahbomb expressed )

[ezekial45]

We get it. You're better than everyone else on these boards because you don't allow yourself to stoop to participating in these exhaustive discussions and debates regarding a simple video game. How dare we question a suspect choice of developer and this disconcerting trend in Westernizing seemingly every staple Japanese IP? How dare we have enough of a vested interest to care? To remain critical and skeptical? To evaluate based on the media that has been showcased thus far... nevermind the fact that this media has been released with the specific goal of stirring up conversation and judgments. Some of us aren't passive. Sorry that makes you think we're beneath you.

Calm down, this wasn't directed at anyone here. We all get caught up these sort of discussions. I say we because I do as well.

Again, this is NeoGAF. We're gonna discuss this to the nth degree.

[GuardianE]

Calm down, this wasn't directed at anyone here. We all get caught up these sort of discussions. I say we because I do as well. Again, this is NeoGAF. We're gonna discuss this to the nth degree.

My apologies, I misinterpreted the tone of your post.

Fixed. I am not even an English native speaker and I need to fix your grammar in order to understand the sense of your post. This is the real irony ;)

No offense to you intended, but I think this potentially goes a long way in explaining the abrasive wording of your posts on culture.

[IC_Champion]

Let their track record and the facts speak for them : -They haven't made an action game with game play worth a shit in comparison to DMC or really any action game worth a damn despite making exclusively action games. -They don't care about 60fps -They haven't made a game that's turned a profit (not saying thats indicative of quality, but if you can't make either a fun game or a profitable game you have no business making games) -If they fuck this up we'll have to wait up to another 5 years for another DMC (DMC4 was 2007, but then again DMC3 was 2005) -They let this Tameem Antoniades guy speak for them over and over again, either implying that they don't care or that they're trying to get people interested via controversy (but nobody actually cares at this point) If they wanted to make a DMC5, they shouldn't make a game thats Heavenly Sword to the West : DMC skinned edition, but work off the game that's actually fun unlike every game they have made.

Good points. Tameem sure likes using "I don't care" a lot, doesn't he? (to me using this phrase in any context is just a negative mannerism)

[JonathanPower]

But just for MR. Power.... take a read.

I failed to spot this post that you previously made. It seems to be an very well written paper, and I thank you for providing this link. I apologize for the "higher education level" if you thought that it was offensive, since it was not meant to be offensive. However, at least my provocation served the purpose of providing an interesting read.

[JonathanPower]

No offense to you intended, but I think this potentially goes a long way in explaining the abrasive wording of your posts on culture.

This is simply related to the fact that I don't like the general trend of giving the worst of yourself just because you are writing in a gaming forum. Just because you are writing on a gaming forum, you are not forced to use bad grammar or to act with a childish behaviour.

[Criminal Upper]

This is simply related to the fact that I don't like the general trend of giving the worst of yourself just because you are writing in a gaming forum. Just because you are writing on a gaming forum, you are not forced to use bad grammar or to act with a childish behaviour.

You're certainly schooling us on childish behavior, that's for sure.

[GuardianE]

This is simply related to the fact that I don't like the general trend of giving the worst of yourself just because you are writing in a gaming forum. Just because you are writing on a gaming forum, you are not forced to use bad grammar or to act with a childish behaviour.

I should have clarified, I was actually talking about you not being a native English speaker.

[Dahbomb]

Since the topic is brought up... who is actually going to make the OT for this game?

This culture card that was pulled out is really grimy.

[BeautifulMemory]

And what the OT title will be?

[IC_Champion]

Since the topic is brought up... who is actually going to make the OT for this game? This culture card that was pulled out is really grimy.

I thought it would be either you or Gunbo...

[JonathanPower]

You're certainly schooling us on childish behavior, that's for sure.

I am positive that who like you has the only argumentation of "what you say is laughable" does also a pretty good job.

[Nemesis_]

Since the topic is brought up... who is actually going to make the OT for this game? This culture card that was pulled out is really grimy.

When is the game even out? =/

[Criminal Upper]

Since the topic is brought up... who is actually going to make the OT for this game? This culture card that was pulled out is really grimy.

I vote for you to make it, but model it after the Dragon Age 2 OT.

Would be epic.

DmC lOTl - "The "feel" of higher cultural levels."

[IC_Champion]

I vote for you to make it, but model it after the Dragon Age 2 OT. Would be epic. DmC lOTl - "The "feel" of higher cultural levels."

Good one

[AlphaDump]

The biggest problem I have, and started to realize it after DMC 3, is that while in America we interpret Dante and the story as tongue in cheek or "campy", I am almost certain that isnt the case in Japan. It isn't a parody there, it is a projection of what they think is cool. Let that idea mature a bit with the new "gritty, realistic, reboot" type bullshit we've seen ever since the success of Batman Begins, and now we have japanese developers taking themselves WAY too seriously, and following the same path.

Maybe I am reaching a bit, but jesus, someone needs to tell japanese game developers that the same goes for their film industry. That shit doesnt work on an international level and it simply won't sell. So good thing he doesn't care.

[gunbo13]

I thought it would be either you or Gunbo...

I'd rather play DMC2.

Retcon:
The pretentiousness in this thread is laughable.

[Supa]

I actually liked Heavenly Sword, and I liked Enslaved too. So no DmC hate from me until I try the game for myself. Hopefully Andy Serkis is involved in this though, with so many games that tries to be movies it's nice to know that there is at least one person who's capable to take video gaming past the worse-than B-movie-quality-acting that we're usually getting.

Great comment, I totally agree with this. I'm a fan of Ninja Theory after their last two games as well and I can't wait to play DMC.

I've only played the first DMC game when it first came out on PS2, which I remember being "cool" and "kickass". I'll have to play through the HD Collection sometime before the reboot comes out to get into the series again. :)

I wish people would stop hating on this game, though. Can't they see how shallow they are being to talk badly about it without having played the game yet? Yeah, yeah, it's opinions, but it can't be good to be so very very angry about a game that's just trying to entertain.

[MuddyDonut]

The biggest problem I have, and started to realize it after DMC 3, is that while in America we interpret Dante and the story as tongue in cheek or "campy", I am almost certain that isnt the case in Japan. It isn't a parody there, it is a projection of what they think is cool. Let that idea mature a bit with the new "gritty, realistic, reboot" type bullshit we've seen ever since the success of Batman Begins, and now we have japanese developers taking themselves WAY too seriously, and following the same path. Maybe I am reaching a bit, but jesus, someone needs to tell japanese game developers that the same goes for their film industry. That shit doesnt work on an international level and it simply won't sell. So good thing he doesn't care.

An English studio is making this game.

[Criminal Upper]

Great comment, I totally agree with this. I'm a fan of Ninja Theory after their last two games as well and I can't wait to play DMC. I've only played the first DMC game when it first came out on PS2, which I remember being "cool" and "kickass". I'll have to play through the HD Collection sometime before the reboot comes out to get into the series again. :) I wish people would stop hating on this game, though. Can't they see how shallow they are being to talk badly about it without having played the game yet? Yeah, yeah, it's opinions, but it can't be good to be so very very angry about a game that's just trying to entertain.

You see, both Heavenly Sword and to a lesser exent, Enslaved had good stories and nice cutscenes. It's a shame that the games were 5 hours long, and had some of the most boring combat this gen.

[IC_Champion]

You see, both Heavenly Sword and to lesser exent, Enslaved had good stories, and nice cutscenes. It's a shame that the games were 5 hours long, and had some of the most boring combat and gameplay this gen.

Now if they were true storytellers, NT would maximize DmC's story length...

[GuardianE]

I wish people would stop hating on this game, though. Can't they see how shallow they are being to talk badly about it without having played the game yet? Yeah, yeah, it's opinions, but it can't be good to be so very very angry about a game that's just trying to entertain.

I really don't see how it's being shallow. You're impressed with what you've seen thus far, and that's fine. Others are disappointed with what they've seen so far. By your own definitions, you're being just as shallow as the harsher critics (if you've actually bothered to read those criticisms instead of generalizing them as fanboy drivel).

I know that not many may not agree with me, but I honestly believe that games do much more than entertain. They're a vehicle for experiences, and an instrument for the players.

[Dahbomb]

When is the game even out? =/

Rumors have it coming out earlier than you would expect it. August 2012 release date was thrown around.

Oh and if I make it, it's not going to be like the Dragon Age 2 OT where it's just trolling the game. It would be a legit OT.

DmC lOTl - "The "feel" of higher cultural levels."

That's a good one lol.

[Criminal Upper]

Rumors have it coming out earlier than you would expect it. August 2012 release date was thrown around. Oh and if I make it, it's not going to be like the Dragon Age 2 OT where it's just trolling the game. It would be a legit OT. That's a good one lol.

Doooooooooo it!

[KingItachi]

I really don't see how it's being shallow. You're impressed with what you've seen thus far, and that's fine. Others are disappointed with what they've seen so far. By your own definitions, you're being just as shallow as the harsher critics (if you've actually bothered to read those criticisms instead of generalizing them as fanboy drivel). I know that not many may not agree with me, but I honestly believe that games do much more than entertain. They're a vehicle for experiences, and an instrument for the players.

Well said.

[Vire]

I don't really understand this sentiment.

As an artist, I want my work to be enjoyed as many people as possible. Sounds like he's setting up excuses before the game even comes out.

[TyrantGuardian]

DmC lOTl - "The "feel" of higher cultural levels."

Amazing! :lol

[JonathanPower]

I vote for you to make it, but model it after the Dragon Age 2 OT. Would be epic. DmC lOTl - "The "feel" of higher cultural levels."

If you culture your culture in a culture, then you could develop a high lever of culture and you will love DmC. Trust me.

[Criminal Upper]

DmC l OT l - "If you culture your culture in a culture, then you could develop a high lever of culture and you will love DmC. It also runs at 30 fps."

[KingItachi]

DmC l OT l - "If you culture your culture in a culture, then you could develop a high lever of culture and you will love DmC. It also runs at 30 fps."

lol

[bone_and_sinew]

Rumors have it coming out earlier than you would expect it. August 2012 release date was thrown around. Oh and if I make it, it's not going to be like the Dragon Age 2 OT where it's just trolling the game. It would be a legit OT.

Booooooooo. This piece of uncultured filth (more like the only culture from this game are E.Coli cultures amirite?) deserves a Dragon Age 2 OT.

[MTMBStudios]

You guys don't have nearly the appropriate culture levels to speak to me.

[Criminal Upper]

You guys don't have nearly the appropriate culture levels to speak to me.

Come on, if I culture myself up for a few months, my culture might be so great, that I might be worthy enough to speak to you about my culture!