[bluemax]

How do you get $100k in debt?

I went to an expensive school (USC, roughly $36k a year at the time). I changed majors and took longer than the standard 4 years to graduate (closer to 6 with some time spent at CC), I came out with like $78k or so in student loan debt.

My monthly payment is about $500-$550. I consolidated my federal loans together to help somewhat.

I just don't understand how she got herself so far into debt.

Also, I will say I'm glad that I majored in computer science. I've been unemployed a couple of times since graduation but never for more than a few months, and I've been able to pick up contract work to help keep myself going. Since graduating I've worked on video games, legal software, and augmented reality. The benefit of having an engineering degree from a reputable school is that people trust me to be able to learn new things and contribute in short order.

[Flying_Phoenix]

I imagine that most 17 year-old children have difficulty grasping such long term problems.

As someone who was on the train of those office space like looneys racking up debt to get a degree no more than two years ago I'll clarify the situation.

Basically what people forget is that not only do these kids not understand what they are doing when they take out loans, but the parents too. Every time you here these stories there is the giant elephant in the room that has "Where were the parents in this?" spray-painted on its side. The reality is that not only do the parents not protest their kids taking out these tremendous loans, but they often support them. Think about it, this is the same generation who were buying $400,000 houses on a $30,000 a year income. Clearly being financial sound isn't their strong point.

I was 18 when I flew into Colorado for school.. I found out that I had to take out somewhere around $20,000 in loans for the year because I was going out of state and living on campus. I wanted to move out of my state of Wisconsin and the school was one of the top schools for Journalism. I eventually got took out the loan at a crazy high 10.5% interest rate (it has gone down thankfully). Now where was my mother in all of this? Right beside me! She went with me to get everything set up. She was very well aware of the schools cost, but she didn't really give me a reality check on the costs like you expect. In fact she didn't seemed so unfinancially versed (thats a term right?) that she told me to go with an unsubsidized loan because the subsidized one "seemed to complicated". And what of my other family members? Well my much older than me sister who graduated and is working as a college advisor stated "Don't worry about the money." My brother who had $60,000 in debt at the time said something similar. Hell he recommended that I could have gone to a more expensive school that was $40,000 a year.

Fast forward to today. I realized every consequence for student debt. What interest is, how much I have to pay monthly, what deffering is, the whole works. I enrolled in community college and saved up money living at my moms house (while taking care of my grandma). I managed to save up to finish school at the local university. I'm pretty much set with graduation being next year. Thanks to these choice rather than graduating with $85,000 in debt I'll end up graduating with a little more than half of that. My brother dropped out of college and had a huge reality check. Luckily he got a job at a nightclub and became best friends with the owner and now has a high paying secure job that didn't involve his degree what so ever. He is now the biggest advocate for college being a "scam". My sister still after all this time maintains the "don't worry about the debt". Her reason? Because to her student loan debt is something "that you have to pay your whole life anyway so why bother? I know PLENTY of people who will never be out of student loan debt so why worry about it? Its just something you do." Meanwhile I noticed that my mom was watching something on PBS in which a student loan advocate was having a speech seminar. It blew her mind that the banks charged interest on your loan EVERY year and not just once which she originally thought. And still after this time she refuses to believe that the average person owes around $28,000 in loans. When she found out that my sister owned $44,000 when all was said and done, she called that "cheap".

Its just not my family either. I was talking to this girl I met at a party and she said that she takes out $9,000 a year in loans. She's going to the same school route her mother did as her mother is sorta forcing her to do it. The thing is is that while her mother has a pretty decent job with a Master degree (its EXACTLY the job I want infact) she is on foodstamps due to loan debt... Yet she wants her daughter to continue on going to school and end up accruing ~$50,000 in loan debt with a 2.2 GPA.

The reality is that many people don't know how finances work. And coming from a generation of kids being raised by single parents after welfare reform, the situation isn't pretty. People just think debt is normal, and that its better to go to school and make a decent living while paying a lot of debt, rather than not go to school and make a crappy living having a higher or equal ratio of debt. I feel like I'm in an Office Space spiritual sequel involving higher education. Its depressing.

EDIT - And too add, people will say "well as long as you choose the right major and try to get out of debt you'll be fine!" Well even taking out such factors that some people can't get jobs to pay their way for school, can't get their parents help, etc. The importance of a degree is getting higher and higher while what makes it stand out is getting lower and lower. You now need an internship and/or a graduate degree to standout. And that's just what people are doing. Internships are quickly drying up, more people are moving into graduate school, and tuition costs are skyrocketing while income inequality is at a free fall. There is a problem here that we have to solve. Or soon things will really get out of hand.

[Lasthope106]

Is there a survey on how many engineers that graduated from 2006-2011 are unemployed?

My school is not as prestigious but it's still considered a very good engineering school.

http://www.engineering.iastate.edu/ecs/did-you-know/

[krameriffic]

I was 18 when I flew into Colorado for school.. I found out that I had to take out somewhere around $20,000 in loans for the year because I was going out of state and living on campus. I wanted to move out of my state of Wisconsin and the school was one of the top schools for Journalism. I eventually got took out the loan at a crazy high 10.5% interest rate (it has gone down thankfully). Now where was my mother in all of this? Right beside me! She went with me to get everything set up. She was very well aware of the schools cost, but she didn't really give me a reality check on the costs like you expect. In fact she didn't seemed so unfinancially versed (thats a term right?) that she told me to go with an unsubsidized loan because the subsidized one "seemed to complicated". And what of my other family members? Well my much older than me sister who graduated and is working as a college advisor stated "Don't worry about the money." My brother who had $60,000 in debt at the time said something similar. Hell he recommended that I could have gone to a more expensive school that was $40,000 a year.

Going in-state was the best decision I ever made. I happen to be in Colorado, and went to the School of Mines for $4k-5k per semester of tuition while still living at home. I was able to pay that without taking out any loans and graduate with no debt. I was accepted to big name schools out-of-state, and while I'm sure it would have been an enlightening experience to go to them, I would also be in 5 figures of debt at this point. I talked to a lot of people who came to Mines from out of state and their tuition was 4-5 times as much as mine was. It's absolutely ridiculous how much of a difference there is.

[Zoe]

That girl had to have taken out private loans. Otherwise she's insane to not go onto deferment.

[Bgamer90]

Going in-state was the best decision I ever made (...) went to for $4k-5k per semester of tuition while still living at home. I was able to pay that without taking out any loans and graduate with no debt.

Same here.

[ThisWreckage]

Is there a survey on how many engineers that graduated from 2006-2011 are unemployed?

I'll never understand this type of thinking. It pops up in every thread pertaining to unemployment among college graduates. Not everyone can be an engineer. Not everyone should feel obligated to go into engineering because of high employment. I really don't get your point at all.

[jtb]

I'll never understand this type of thinking. It pops up in every thread pertaining to unemployment among college graduates. Not everyone can be an engineer. Not everyone should feel obligated to go into engineering because of high employment. I really don't get your point at all.

and if everyone did become an engineer, then there would be the same dilution in the jobs market that we see with liberal arts degrees already. an unemployed liberal arts major is not going to magically have a job if they hopped into a time machine and applied to only STEM colleges/degrees, let alone be successful in school.

[The Lamp]

Gonna have $80-100k in debt by the time I graduate too.

But I'm also an engineer at a school that has amazing job recruiting so I'm not too worried about finding a job afterward.

But in general, this sucks for the economy.

[ThisWreckage]

and if everyone did become an engineer, then there would be the same dilution in the jobs market that we see with liberal arts degrees already. an unemployed liberal arts major is not going to magically have a job if they hopped into a time machine and applied to only STEM colleges/degrees, let alone be successful in school.

Precisely. It's obvious that my generation has no idea how to handle low unemployment when the popular answer is, "You should have went into STEM fields." It's non-answer as far as I'm concerned.

[DeathbyVolcano]

and if everyone did become an engineer, then there would be the same dilution in the jobs market that we see with liberal arts degrees already. an unemployed liberal arts major is not going to magically have a job if they hopped into a time machine and applied to only STEM colleges/degrees, let alone be successful in school.

It's the same issue with people going to school to become a lawyer, there's so many lib arts and business kids going to grad school for it, so now there's a huge pool of lawyers without enough space to ill them all in.

Glad I'll be able to work in a brand development position for a few years. Only 200 bucks a month for loan payoffs as well!

[Goya]

Post.

Nice post Flying_Phoenix, interesting to read personal stories like this.

[Mangotron]

Kid sounds like kind of a dumbass tbh. I don't buy the whole "17 year olds don't understand loans" thing either, I'm 18 and doing my associates at CC because I understand what a huge burden even HALF her debt is.

[ThisWreckage]

Kid sounds like kind of a dumbass tbh. I don't buy the whole "17 year olds don't understand loans" thing either, I'm 18 and doing my associates at CC because I understand what a huge burden even HALF her debt is.

It's a lot to ask of 16-22 year olds to be financially responsible. These are people that go off to college and have never lived by themselves before. Not everyone is as wise as you.

[BobsRevenge]

Kid sounds like kind of a dumbass tbh. I don't buy the whole "17 year olds don't understand loans" thing either, I'm 18 and doing my associates at CC because I understand what a huge burden even HALF her debt is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundame...ribution_error

[Violater]

Where is this gaf salary thread?

[Mr. Serious Business]

Think of how little life experience your average 18 year old has. And think of how much societal pressure there is to attend college. It's not so cut and dry.

[Twenty7KVN]

50%? Hey, that's pretty good, lol.

Yea it's a lot better than i thought.

[The Lamp]

It's a lot to ask of 16-22 year olds to be financially responsible. These are people that go off to college and have never lived by themselves before. Not everyone is as wise as you.

I don't care. :P The only reason I took on so much debt is because I know I can pay it off and my parents are going to help me. If you're too naive to research the consequences of college, you shouldn't go to college.

People shouldn't take the decision lightly.

[BobsRevenge]

I don't care. :P The only reason I took on so much debt is because I know I can pay it off and my parents are going to help me. If you're too naive to research the consequences of college, you shouldn't go to college. People shouldn't take the decision lightly.

The funny thing is, a lot of what is depressing the economy has to do with people too afraid to spend money, and paying down their debt instead, for fear that the economy won't be kind to them or their money... basically across the board.

:D

Apparently a lack of aggregate demand occurring from a mix of fear and exploitation in the global economy is easy to confuse with college graduates being idiots.

Fundamental attribution error.

[Flying_Phoenix]

I wonder why a home finance class isn't mandatory in high school? Like a class dealing with loans, mortgages, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundame...ribution_error

Perfect.

[AstroLad]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundame...ribution_error

Can we just call this the Baby Boomer Fallacy?

[verbum]

I would blame the parents for this with their laissez-faire attitude of letting kids do whatever they want. Not that there is anything wrong with letting kids have their freedom, but there are moments in their life where the parents, who have more life experience than the kids, need to step up and help their kids plan and make the right decisions. Even if that girl insisted on their radio production degree, the parents should have been there to advise her on the best way to earn that degree without incurring that $100k student debt.

I wonder if they took nice vacations while she was in school. But she may be the youngest child of four to go to college. Who knows?
Someone asked me about Virginia College (they have a branch here in Georgia), it was a 2 year degree. The total price was $32,000 (in loans).
I said that was way too much. They said, " but it includes textbooks and cap and gown!". I sat down with them and we figured out how much the same cost would be for that degree at a local technical school. It was around $13-$14,000 including transportation (gasoline), textbooks, cap and gown, and some other stuff.
Half the price.

[Kod1ak]

I'm beginning to wonder if it's even worth going to school anymore if you're not going into medicine/engineering. I have all my generals done, and have been looking for a major that might actually lead to a decent job and career and I find very little.

My problem is that I'm not good with math classes. I can learn equations and do them, but I don't think I'd ever be able to do calculus+ in school because I am just not good with the classes. This severely limits what I can do in school, unless I want to major in psych or sociology, etc. It's depressing.

I'm terrified to go to school and waste thousands of dollars and hours and hours of my time for a degree that gets me nowhere, but I'm terrified of not going and ending up regretting my choice later.

[Lactose_Intolerant]

The major thing here is she spent 100k on a profession having to do with radio.

[teruterubozu]

I'm beginning to wonder if it's even worth going to school anymore if you're not going into medicine/engineering. I have all my generals done, and have been looking for a major that might actually lead to a decent job and career and I find very little. My problem is that I'm not good with math classes. I can learn equations and do them, but I don't think I'd ever be able to do calculus+ in school because I am just not good with the classes. This severely limits what I can do in school, unless I want to major in psych or sociology, etc. It's depressing. I'm terrified to go to school and waste thousands of dollars and hours and hours of my time for a degree that gets me nowhere, but I'm terrified of not going and ending up regretting my choice later.

Statistics show that those who go to college still have a much less unemployment rate than those who choose not to go (high school graduates). It's pretty much a catch 22.

[Averon]

Statistics show that those who go to college still have a much less unemployment rate than those who choose not to go (high school graduates). It's pretty much a catch 22.

Also, it doesn't help that even basic entry level positions require a BA/BS at minimum nowadays. You have to go to school and get a degree to just get you foot in the door. And that's before you even tackle the job experience requirement.

[Kod1ak]

Statistics show that those who go to college still have a much less unemployment rate than those who choose not to go (high school graduates). It's pretty much a catch 22.

My problem is that I'm currently working in a field that could potentially be a decent career. However, there are many, many bottom level employees and very few management positions. I think I'm a decent place to get promoted, eventually, but I don't know how long that would take. I get decent benefits (dont have to pay social security, i have a pension plan), but I don't want to wait around for 10 years to get a promotion. Plus the pay, while it isn't terrible, isn't great either. I haven't had a raise in 4 years due to the economy and I'm seriously doubting that I'll be getting many in the next few years.

It's a terrible feeling.. knowing that I could do something that would make my life much better, but could possibly making it much worse, too. If it wasn't so expensive, I would probably be going right now, but paying tuition on top of my mortgage and other expenses would be crippling, unless I get something good out of it.

[xbhaskarx]

Radio is gonna be huge in the future though...

[The Technomancer]

Radio is gonna be huge in the future though...

I would certainly like it if it made a comeback. We need some kind of technology that can do for radio what the internet did for text news.

[Zyzyxxz]

I'm beginning to wonder if it's even worth going to school anymore if you're not going into medicine/engineering. I have all my generals done, and have been looking for a major that might actually lead to a decent job and career and I find very little. My problem is that I'm not good with math classes. I can learn equations and do them, but I don't think I'd ever be able to do calculus+ in school because I am just not good with the classes. This severely limits what I can do in school, unless I want to major in psych or sociology, etc. It's depressing. I'm terrified to go to school and waste thousands of dollars and hours and hours of my time for a degree that gets me nowhere, but I'm terrified of not going and ending up regretting my choice later.

I'll tell you the hard facts, math is only hard because you don't apply yourself. You have all the tools in front of you to master math. The internet is such a amazing learning tool and there are plenty of people online willing to help you. Then there are TA and professor office hours, and your university should hire student tutors which is probably included in your tuition.

So if you think a few math courses is worth stopping you from pursuing a well paying career then go ahead and quit but if you see no degree worth pursuing then I understand. Just don't let something stupid like math stop you from getting ahead in life and besides you probably won't use it again after college so I would just man the fuck up and get it over with.

[Angry Grimace]

They do have marketable skills. The market is just depressed for stupid reasons, and the jobs aren't available because politicians won't admit that New Deal shit works. There's more than enough money to go around, more than enough work that could be done, just a lack of will to put policies in place to let us actually get to work.

Really? Like what

[Kod1ak]

I'll tell you the hard facts, math is only hard because you don't apply yourself. You have all the tools in front of you to master math. The internet is such a amazing learning tool and there are plenty of people online willing to help you. Then there are TA and professor office hours, and your university should hire student tutors which is probably included in your tuition. So if you think a few math courses is worth stopping you from pursuing a well paying career then go ahead and quit but if you see no degree worth pursuing then I understand. Just don't let something stupid like math stop you from getting ahead in life and besides you probably won't use it again after college so I would just man the fuck up and get it over with.

That's the thing. I can learn to do whatever they teach me (as far as algebra goes), but my problem is that I can't retain that much information over a long period of time, especially when they touch on it once and move on to something different. I would say that I'm bad at numbers, but I'm not. I can do problems, I do my personal finances (which includes stocks and investments), I just can't deal with the way they teach math in school. They go over so many different types of problems and the tests are so infrequent that I just can't retain that much information, especially because I am so disinterested in math. I'm a visual person and I'm good with words. I don't enjoy math at all. I just hate the way it is taught in school. If they had tests each week with fewer things on each test, I would probably be fine.

Besides, I don't think I'd want to be an engineer anyway. Maybe something like an Architect, but I dodged that bullet when I was 20. I'm just saying that it's upsetting that college is turning into either a huge waste of time and money or a trade school for STEM majors.

[The Technomancer]

That's the thing. I can learn to do whatever they teach me (as far as algebra goes), but my problem is that I can't retain that much information over a long period of time, especially when they touch on it once and move on to something different. I would say that I'm bad at numbers, but I'm not. I can do problems, I do my personal finances (which includes stocks and investments), I just can't deal with the way they teach math in school. I just can't retain that much, especially because I am so disinterested in math. I'm a visual person and I'm good with words. I don't enjoy math, at all. I just hate the way it is taught in school. If they had tests each week with fewer things on each test, I would probably be fine.

That really does come down to the teaching style yeah. I covered almost the exact same math in Calculus III and System Dynamics and I understood it so much better in the Dynamics class because we were actually using it to solve problems, not just arbitrarily preforming Laplace transformations or whatever.

[Flying_Phoenix]

Radio is gonna be huge in the future though...

Despite what you think it isn't in as big of a jeopardy as it seems. I had some head guys from the local radio station stop by my school's station. They said that while there is a black cloud over the medium it is nowhere near as big and dark as people make it out to be. He said there are still a decent amount of jobs and people hiring.

I'll tell you the hard facts, math is only hard because you don't apply yourself. You have all the tools in front of you to master math. The internet is such a amazing learning tool and there are plenty of people online willing to help you. Then there are TA and professor office hours, and your university should hire student tutors which is probably included in your tuition. So if you think a few math courses is worth stopping you from pursuing a well paying career then go ahead and quit but if you see no degree worth pursuing then I understand. Just don't let something stupid like math stop you from getting ahead in life and besides you probably won't use it again after college so I would just man the fuck up and get it over with.

This. I went from getting an F in math to a B- because I started taking it seriously and really worked on it. I could have gotten a B+ but like an idiot I didn't study for the final.

I can't believe I failed the class twice before, its easy. You just have to keep up with it.

[whitehawk]

Its amazing the bullshit degrees they offer. I was on that track as well but except with Journalism. Thank Goodness I pulled out, but that $22,000 with 10% interest continues to haunt me. The only thing that gives me comfort is that I never went back after my Freshmen year. I also used this tool that calculates monthly payments in loans to see if that $700 a month payment was right. And it was...

It cost you $22,000 for 1 year? I've never been so thankful to live in Canada. Free healthcare and cheap university (at least compared to the US.)

[Satch Fuji]

The thing about the arts is that companies don't care where you went to school or your degree unless your are going to the very top schools, and even then it's difficult to get a job if you're in liberal arts. They only care about if you can do the job better than anybody else. The lady with the radio degree could have instead majored in something like business, math or science, minored in communications, and interned at a station or studio during summers and any free time if she had a passion for radio. You don't have to have a degree in sciptwriting to be a scriptwriter, but you do have to practice writing scripts over and over again to get better, see Garry Whitta for example. Look at it this way, do you want to work as a waiter while you practice, or make much more money and make better connections at a studio in a business capacity while perfecting your craft? Whether you make it or not in what you're passionate about, a practical degree is a nice back-up plan.

[The Lamp]

That really does come down to the teaching style yeah. I covered almost the exact same math in Calculus III and System Dynamics and I understood it so much better in the Dynamics class because we were actually using it to solve problems, not just arbitrarily preforming Laplace transformations or whatever.

Yep. I can never make above a B in pure math classes at my university. However, physics and engineering courses? Where the math is practically applied to visual, tangible things? It makes so much sense.

[Kwhit10]

Graduating on Sunday debt free. The fact that there are people who are $100,000+ in debt just blows my mind.

Family has enough money to not get any aid, but not enough to pay for school. Welcome to the middle class.

[Flying_Phoenix]

It cost you $22,000 for 1 year? I've never been so thankful to live in Canada. Free healthcare and cheap university (at least compared to the US.)

That's because I went out of state. In-state and not in dorms is $7,000 a year, and with federal and state aid it is $3000. Still high.

[The Technomancer]

Family has enough money to not get any aid, but not enough to pay for school. Welcome to the middle class.

Pretty much. My parents can afford to pay a decent chunk of my tuition even and I'm still looking at around 20k when I get out.

[Notrollious]

Family has enough money to not get any aid, but not enough to pay for school. Welcome to the middle class.

Yep + four kids, we're all on our own unfortunately.

[Flying_Phoenix]

Family has enough money to not get any aid, but not enough to pay for school. Welcome to the middle class.

Pretty much. My parents can afford to pay a decent chunk of my tuition even and I'm still looking at around 20k when I get out.

Yep + four kids, we're all on our own unfortunately.

Ahahaha! Take that you rich bastards. While you spoiled shits aren't getting any federal aid, I'M SULKING in over half of my school's tuition paid this year. Suck on that! Its good to come from a lower class family.

[grumble]

Not according to a lot of posters on here. College is supposed to be where you go and learn more about whatever interests you regardless of practical application. Which...would be nice. Would be very nice. Would be something I would fully support if it wasn't so expensive

Seriously.

If you go to college to get a job, take something that leads into jobs.

If you go to college for fun, then take whatever you want, but don't go into debt for it.

[mugurumakensei]

I am the 50% (that's employed full-time).

[usea]

Family has enough money to not get any aid, but not enough to pay for school. Welcome to the middle class.

After a certain age (23 I think) your parents' income isn't counted. If you don't have a job of your own, you get full aid because your household income is $0 (since it only counts you). This only applies to the US, and federal aid programs like the pell grant and federal loans (the ones that replaced the stafford loans a few years ago).

If you go to a reasonably priced university, half your tuition will be paid for by free grants. You can work while you're in school as long as your income stays below the line to get full aid (which I think is around 12k). Or you can just get a work study job.

You'll still graduate with around 15-25k in debt. But they're loans at a reasonably low rate (currently under 5% I think). If you can live with your parents while in school, and have some help from them with food and transportation, you don't need to take out any loans.

[Azar]

Hey, a friend of mine has a journalism degree and has upwards of $60k in debt. He works at a newspaper and gets paid something like $14/hr. Needless to say, he can't pay his loans. Sucky situation.

That sucks. I frequently forget how lucky I am to have gotten out of college with less than $20k in debt, which I can afford to pay off every month even though I work freelance.

[Nemo]

That's actually a better figure than I expected

Still tho, that's pretty much the odds of roulette too

[bill0527]

She has $100,000 in debt from a radio production degree?

That is insane.

Clearly she failed and so did her parents, when they all decided it would be a good idea to go $100k in debt for a degree that has very little earning power, and doesn't get much better with even more time in the industry.

I've got a 2 year associates degree in broadcasting and I spent 1 year working in the field before I got out. The pay was awful, unless you were an on air talent in a major market. If you want to work in production, master control, writing, or editing, prepare to be dirt poor your entire time in the industry.

Students and parents both have an obligation these days to each due their due diligence in researching what prospects for employment and pay are going to be, before they sign themselves up for such massive debt.

Again, regardless of what your parents, teachers, and the Easter bunny told you, you can't grow up in today's worldwide economy and be whatever your little heart desires you to be. Well..I guess maybe you can, just don't expect to be gainfully employed or make a decent living wage doing whatever your heart tells you.

[BigDug13]

I don't understand how student loans are allowed to be at 10% interest. It is a risk free loan to give for the bank/institution and they still charge such a price? You're not allowed to default so a lack of "collateral" shouldn't be a thing.

So someone who has $20,000 in loans is paying $2000 per year in just interest alone? $10,000 of INTEREST in a 5 year period which is just money gone? $166.66 per month of just interest money piled onto that total you owe.

I wish I could give loans at 10% growth RISK FREE. That is better than the stock market which is a higher risk.