[Invisible_Insane]

My thing is, we really don't need to go back to his high school record to pain this picture. Just look at his career in public office and as a private businessman. The man is 65 years old, high school was over 40 years ago. I can see how it fits into the narrative of his character, but to me his current stance is so much more compelling than, he was a bullying douchebag in high school. And I spent all of high school on the recieving end!

My thoughts exactly.

[Mercury Fred]

My thing is, we really don't need to go back to his high school record to paint this picture. Just look at his career in public office and as a private businessman. The man is 65 years old, high school was over 40 years ago. I can see how it fits into the narrative of his character, but to me his current stance is so much more compelling than, he was a bullying douchebag in high school. And I spent all of high school on the recieving end!

Well I agree that we don't need to. But it really paints a compelling picture when looked at all together-- the dog incident, the fact that he was a merciless anti-gay bully and his current chilly, awkward and anti-humanistic persona couple with his policies all add up to a clear picture of someone who would be better off not working with other human beings (or any living things for that matter).

[Al-ibn Kermit]

To any voter with an inclination to choose a candidate based on his same-sex marriage views, the fact that Obama personally endorses same sex marriage is likely disqualifying anyway. What annoys me is that he's trying to leave himself room to walk this back once the charge of federal homosexual fascist tyranny is leveled by claiming that he was merely stating his personal view and the determination of who can marry should be made on a state by state basis. He gets to appear as if he's taking on some very courageous position and it's not really the case at all.

You have to remember that he's going into his last term. There would be nothing gained by not trying to expand marriage rights at some level. Whether that's just as it applies to people in the military or maybe (total long shot) by trying to pass some sort of constitutional amendment on this.

The second option would never happen realistically. The democrats would have to control probably at least 70 seats in the Senate to do that (a few blue dogs won't vote for such an amendment).

Wouldn't the attack be worse if he actually moved towards acting on his beliefs? He'll continue framing this as a personal belief and not actually take any proactive positions, at least not until after the election. It's smart but it's also hardly something to get joyfully weepy over. Hopefully that will come early next year.

In the bible belt....yeah of course. Obama never had a chance there.

Except in Romney's case we see the pattern of a sociopath that seems to ring true in his approach to people now (delights in firing people, is actively anti-gay, etc.).

Make whatever conclusions you want.

But I think that anything a candidate did before 18 should be off limits. People are still going through massive changes in personal morality at that age.

His record/opinion on these issues as governor and presidential candidate is pretty much all that can be used. And even then you see constant flip-flopping so it's not that hard to get to the same conclusion, that he doesn't really care too much about these issues but just wants to get elected.

[CharlieDigital]

BarackObama.com -> View Source

[Allard]

What Romney did as a teen/young adult is irrelevant to who he is as a person now. Kids of all stripes do cruel things to their classmates, me included. These people grow up and learn from what they've done and become completely different adults, not at all defined by the mistakes they made as youngsters. Yes, Romney is disingenuous to try to call them "pranks" and pretend he doesn't remember them, and yes they are very cruel, but that's what kids are - cruel. Just like it was retarded for Romney to call out Obama for eating dog meat as a kid, it's silly for Obama or any of the Democrats to call out incidents as a child. Including experimentation with drugs or whatever. This is called growing up.

Yep the high road is needed on this one. Officials for Democratic party need to stay away from this one or any of them like it. By participating you legitimize your opponents equally ridiculous and petty attacks and it cuts into your ability to hold an adult argument against the opposition. Independents will more likely flock away from you then lose interest in your opponent for attacking something someone did as a kid or young adult. Why? Because just about everyone knows someone that did messed up stuff as a kid and came out right in the end, they will actually emphasize with Romney on a story like this one if he is blasted for it.

If the media wants to make it a story let them, but distance yourself and even take that one step further and say what should be said, what you do as a kid doesn't define who you will be in the future but, its the lessons you take after that do. He takes the highroad, looks better for doing it, and Romney is left to get pounded by the aggressive media with no exit to get out of it. The story stays Romney's story and that's what the Obama campaign should want.

[cartoon_soldier]

My thing is, we really don't need to go back to his high school record to paint this picture. Just look at his career in public office and as a private businessman. The man is 65 years old, high school was over 40 years ago. I can see how it fits into the narrative of his character, but to me his current stance is so much more compelling than, he was a bullying douchebag in high school. And I spent all of high school on the recieving end!

I agree with you, but it is also the response he gave to the story that is very telling. And I go back to what Chait wrote in NY mag today, it points to the picture of a man who has always enjoyed being born into wealth and as President he will have no issue taking away the safe guards of the weak and base his policies on the same idea. As he says,

It's entirely possible to grow out of that youthful mentality -- to learn to step out of your own perspective, to develop an appreciation for the difficulties faced by those not born with Romney's many blessings. I'm just not sure he ever has."

Also, Romney adviser says that they will push for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage and use it as a campaign issue

http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-...ue-123097.html

[Invisible_Insane]

Well I agree that we don't need to. But it really paints a compelling picture when looked at all together-- the dog incident, the fact that he was a merciless anti-gay bully and his current chilly, awkward and anti-humanistic persona couple with his policies all add up to a clear picture of someone who would be better off not working with other human beings (or any living things for that matter).

Do you find Obama's admitted drug usage or Bill Clinton's philandering to be similarly informative about their capacity for effective governance? He's not running for relater-to-people-in-chief.

It should be clear that I think Romney would be a terrible president, but the idea that we should use his bad behavior in high school to inform that conclusion is absolutely risible.

[Mercury Fred]

Make whatever conclusions you want. But I think that anything a candidate did before 18 should be off limits. People are still going through massive changes in personal morality at that age. His record/opinion on these issues as governor and presidential candidate is pretty much all that can be used. And even then you see constant flip-flopping so it's not that hard to get to the same conclusion, that he doesn't really care too much about these issues but just wants to get elected.

Romney was 18 when he did it.

Do you find Obama's admitted drug usage or Bill Clinton's philandering to be similarly informative about their capacity for effective governance? He's not running for relater-to-people-in-chief. It should be clear that I think Romney would be a terrible president, but the idea that we should use his bad behavior in high school to inform that conclusion is absolutely risible.

Obama's drug use is between a neutral and a positive to me. We live in a society in which people experiment with drugs. I'm ok with that. I'm not ok with people experimenting with bullying gay kids and torturing their dogs.

As for Clinton's philandering, I never really thought about it to be honest. It was definitely a stupid thing to do, although I wonder if he and Hill didn't have an agreement and he was too clumsy to keep it on the downlow. My general feelings about extramarital stuff is that cheating is gross, but that different arrangements work for different people. Either way, it still doesn't approach the patterning of Romney's sociopathic tendencies.

[Copernicus]

BarackObama.com -> View Source

Golfclap.

[Dax01]

BarackObama.com -> View Source

lol. Your tag says you have no sense of humor!

[quadriplegicjon]

Also, Romney adviser says that they will push for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage and use it as a campaign issue http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-...ue-123097.html

Oh hoho.. if they want certain groups in the left invigorated, they just did it.

[cartoon_soldier]

Barrett's first ad against Scott Walker

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.co...t-wisconsin-by

Romney also reiterated his belief that federally marriage should be defined between man and a woman

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.co...ne-marriage-as

[quadriplegicjon]

Josh Marshall says it well on the Romney story today http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archive....php?ref=fpblg The striking part about this story is: It is obvious that he remembers the incident, and it is not what I would call a prank. But it would be difficult for him to talk about it at all considering what Obama said yesterday.

The fact that he had to comment on it means he lost..

is that how it works?

[GhaleonEB]

I agree with you, but it is also the response he gave to the story that is very telling. And I go back to what Chait wrote in NY mag today, it points to the picture of a man who has always enjoyed being born into wealth and as President he will have no issue taking away the safe guards of the weak and base his policies on the same idea.

Right, I keep saying I see how it fits the narrative. (I think I'm up to three times now.)

I just get uncomfortable digging up high school stories. I draw a line in the sand when it comes to vetting candidates for public office, and that line is, when they became an adult. We have 40 years of Romney's adult history to go on - college, Bain, Governor, perpetual Presidential candidate. They paint a very clear picture of someone I don't want a hajillion miles from the White House. I just get uncomfortable digging up dirt from when he was in high school, no matter how much we think we can mine from it.

I mean, maybe he was a shithead in middle school as well. We could probably find a tale or two there. Probably pushed kids over in kindergarten too - he looks to have been tall at an early age. What a little dick.

[thatbox]

Barrett's first ad against Scott Walker http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.co...t-wisconsin-by Romney also reiterated his belief that federally marriage should be defined between man and a woman http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.co...ne-marriage-as

It sounds so fucking horrible when you separate out the rights, like that. Just hearing him say "well in this state maybe gay people could see their significant others in the hospital, and in this state maybe they would have even more rights" sounds patently absurd and wildly mean-spirited.

[Al-ibn Kermit]

Also, Romney adviser says that they will push for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage and use it as a campaign issue http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-...ue-123097.html

I called it. Conservatives will get distracted by meaningless issues for the next several months. Issues that the Obama camp will bring up.

The smart thing to do is to excuse Obama's support for gay marriage as meaningless fodder for the youth/gay voters, since the president can't really do much with regards to marriage rights. But they spent the last few years saying that Obama is too radical and now they can't just admit that his goal is not to turn everybody into a gay socialist. They have to keep their momentum up going full steam ahead off the cliff of sanity.

I also predicted that immigration will be turned into a (bigger) issue soon, by the Obama camp. If Romney actually tries suggesting a constitutional amendment against amnesty, wow.

[Hawkian]

BarackObama.com -> View Source

Yeah.

This reminds me of a big post I made a while back comparing the (crazily, unbelievably shitty) Romney campaign site to Obama's site. It's one of the most well-crafted sites I've ever seen and I come from a web design background.

[Copernicus]

Yeah. This reminds me of a big post I made a while back comparing the (crazily, unbelievably shitty) Romney campaign site to Obama's site. It's one of the most well-crafted sites I've ever seen and I come from a web design background.

You post came popped into my head when I saw that source code. Really liked that post.

[Gr1mLock]

Is Ryan seriously proposing cutting Meals On Wheels and food stamps? Rebublicans are really doubling down on the hatred of the poor arent they?

[Hawkian]

You post came popped into my head when I saw that source code. Really liked that post.

Thanks! :)

It's a nice little easter egg. I first came across that when I was checking to make sure they weren't using any external plugins or anything for the Buffet Rule calculator (they use jQuery but that's it, it's very clean). When I viewed source and that popped up it was like the designer was saying "hey friend, don't worry- you're gonna like this."

Is Ryan seriously proposing cutting Meals On Wheels and food stamps? Rebublicans are really doubling down on the hatred of the poor arent they?

The problem is, rhetorically, this stuff really works with their base, even their low-income base, which I don't get at all. They don't really sacrifice any political capital by doing what you just said unless somebody slips up, which, I have to say, Joe Barton did.

[Arment]

This Romney shit is gold for the Democrats. Pure gold. Couldn't have come at a better time.

Look at the situation. Romney assaulted some kid and cut his hair, and while unprovable the general consensus is because he wore his hair in a "gay" way or that they thought he was gay.

And then you have all the anti-bullying causes going on. Stories about outed gay people being bullied and killing themselves. It really paints him in a bad light.

When I first heard the story, I said what a lot of you are saying. It's dumb politics. He was a kid then. We all did stupid shit when we were kids. But he's handling it like a complete douche saying that he doesn't remember it. Yeah right.

He deserves all the shit he'll get for it now. If he handled it better I'd say it was a non-issue.

[thatbox]

Is Ryan seriously proposing cutting Meals On Wheels and food stamps? Rebublicans are really doubling down on the hatred of the poor arent they?

Yes, the House is trying to avoid the 10% defense cut.

[Gr1mLock]

Thanks! :) It's a nice little easter egg. I first came across that when I was checking to make sure they weren't using any external plugins or anything for the Buffet Rule calculator (they use jQuery but that's it, it's very clean). When I viewed source and that popped up it was like the designer was saying "hey friend, don't worry- you're gonna like this." The problem is, rhetorically, this stuff really works with their base, even their low-income base, which I don't get at all. They don't really sacrifice any political capital by doing what you just said unless somebody slips up, which, I have to say, Joe Barton did.

Pretty much anything they spew works with their base. However they aren't doing themselves any favors with the independent crowd.

[The Technomancer]

Yes, the House is trying to avoid the 10% defense cut.

Oh well heaven forbid

[Cloudy]

Well I agree that we don't need to. But it really paints a compelling picture when looked at all together-- the dog incident, the fact that he was a merciless anti-gay bully and his current chilly, awkward and anti-humanistic persona couple with his policies all add up to a clear picture of someone who would be better off not working with other human beings (or any living things for that matter).

I see where you're going but does anyone really believe Mitt is a "bad" guy? (Well besides being a typical lying Republican lol) If not, this has no legs. Even if it did, I don't like this politics-of-destruction type stuff. Especially when they're going all the way back to high school. I hope Obama is asked about this soon so he can slap it down.

All that said, the GOP was attacking Obama for eating dogmeat at age 10 so they look ridiculous whining over stuff like this getting dredged up lol

[Chichikov]

Oh well heaven forbid

They frame it as "disarming the military".
I shit you not.

[Gr1mLock]

They frame it as "disarming the military". I shit you not.

The war on war!

[ErasureAcer]

Romney bullying made CBS Evening News. Good. Dude was laughing it off on FOX radio on a clip they played followed by his wife saying no one knows the real Romney and he's still just a big kid, jokester til this day. Disgusting. Hopefully the bullied kid's family comes forward as he died of cancer.

[Chumly]

The bullying was on NBC nightly news as well. His response was pretty stupid. Pretty much admitted he was a giant asshole in high school. I wouldn't really care if he was actually any different today but he sure doesn't seem like it.

[GhaleonEB]

Yeah. This reminds me of a big post I made a while back comparing the (crazily, unbelievably shitty) Romney campaign site to Obama's site. It's one of the most well-crafted sites I've ever seen and I come from a web design background.

That was one of my favorite posts of the cycle. Really insightful look at design detail and the extension into how the two campaigns operate.

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

All that said, the GOP was attacking Obama for eating dogmeat at age 10 so they look ridiculous whining over stuff like this getting dredged up lol

Here's the difference:

Eating dog as a child while living in another country, in line with their customs, is not who Obama is. Smoking weed or doing coke when he was young, that obviously is not who Obama is today.

Being a rich asshole, that is exactly in line with what we already believe Romney to be today. Being a rich asshole and a bully, well is that hard to believe? Hell no. He was the typical rich jerk bully in school, that was normal behavior for him. His response was telling. Everything we know about him paints the picture clearly. It affirms what we already think of him today. It is relevant.

It's not simply 'this happened in the past', 'that happened in the past', same difference, out of bounds, who cares.

[quadriplegicjon]

I see where you're going but does anyone really believe Mitt is a "bad" guy? (Well besides being a typical lying Republican lol) If not, this has no legs. Even if it did, I don't like this politics-of-destruction type stuff. Especially when they're going all the way back to high school. I hope Obama is asked about this soon so he can slap it down. All that said, the GOP was attacking Obama for eating dogmeat at age 10 so they look ridiculous whining over stuff like this getting dredged up lol

Honestly, I sometimes wonder if he has antisocial personality disorder...

[PhoenixPause]

Here's the difference: Eating dog as a child while living in another country, in line with their customs, is not who Obama is. Smoking weed or doing coke when he was young, that obviously is not who Obama is today. Being a rich asshole, that is exactly in line with what we already believe Romney to be today. Being a rich asshole and a bully, well is that hard to believe? Hell no. He was the typical rich jerk bully in school, that was normal behavior for him. His response was telling. Everything we know about him paints the picture clearly. It affirms what we already think of him today. It is relevant. It's not simply 'this happened in the past', 'that happened in the past', same difference, out of bounds, who cares.

How do we know that? What do we really know about Obama

[markatisu]

How do we know that? What do we really know about Obama

We know enough to know what he did in the past is meaningless to voters, reliving all the attacks from 2008 won't do much if that is the tactic.

I see it as "Oh Obama did drugs!!"....well you knew that from his book and the last time he was up for election...what else you got lol

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

How do we know that? What do we really know about Obama

Is this supposed to be a display of your credibility as a regular contributor in this thread?

[Chumly]

Here's the difference: Eating dog as a child while living in another country, in line with their customs, is not who Obama is. Smoking weed or doing coke when he was young, that obviously is not who Obama is today. Being a rich asshole, that is exactly in line with what we already believe Romney to be today. Being a rich asshole and a bully, well is that hard to believe? Hell no. He was the typical rich jerk bully in school, that was normal behavior for him. His response was telling. Everything we know about him paints the picture clearly. It affirms what we already think of him today. It is relevant. It's not simply 'this happened in the past', 'that happened in the past', same difference, out of bounds, who cares.

Exactly. If romney came across as a caring compassionate individual today he wouldn't have any problems but it doesn't seem like he grew up at all. The same heartless guy as he was back then.

[Gr1mLock]

Honestly, I sometimes wonder if he has antisocial personality disorder...

sometimes i wonder if he can unhinge his jaw and consume an infant whole

[speculawyer]

Is this supposed to be a display of your credibility as a regular contributor in this thread?

It is a display of his standard trolling joke.

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

It is a display of his standard trolling joke.

I know heh.

[Chichikov]

Being a rich asshole, that is exactly in line with what we already believe Romney to be today. Being a rich asshole and a bully, well is that hard to believe? Hell no. He was the typical rich jerk bully in school, that was normal behavior for him. His response was telling. Everything we know about him paints the picture clearly. It affirms what we already think of him today. It is relevant. It's not simply 'this happened in the past', 'that happened in the past', same difference, out of bounds, who cares.

That seem like quite a stretch to me.
Like I said, I did much worse than cut some dude's hair.
It's nothing to be proud of, but I hope people don't judge me as a person on the things I did when I was a teenager.

Plus I'm not really sure about the connection between being rich and being a bully.
I grew up in a fucking commune, everyone was equally rich.
That didn't help the nerds.

There are many good reasons to attack Romney, I don't think we should be wasting time on silly stuff like that.

[Mercury Fred]

That seem like quite a stretch to me. Like I said, I did much worse than cut some dude's hair. It's nothing to be proud of, but I hope people don't judge me as a person on the things I did when I was a teenager. Plus I'm not really sure about the connection between being rich and being a bully. I grew up in a fucking commune, everyone was equally rich. That didn't help the nerds. There are many good reasons to attack Romney, I don't think we should be wasting time on silly stuff like that.

Yes, but are you a soulless, ice cold automaton now?

[quadriplegicjon]

sometimes i wonder if he can unhinge his jaw and consume an infant whole

Except my comment is not out of the realm of possibility. The way he reacts to some things and some of his past actions and stories have made me wonder. There are degrees to the disorder, just like any disorder, and things are not really like they are presented in movies. Anyway, you can't really diagnose someone without actually sitting down and evaluating them, but, as i stated, he has made me wonder.

[PhoenixPause]

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/201...-prayfcoretta/

womp womp!

[Chichikov]

Yes, but are you a soulless, ice cold automaton now?

I honestly don't think it's particularly useful to engage a presidential election on that level.

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/201...-prayfcoretta/ womp womp!

Welcome to the carnival of stupid.
As the saying goes - don't wrestle a pig, you both end up covered with shit, but the pig likes it.

Romney's weakness is his policies, he should be nailed on that.

[quadriplegicjon]

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/201...-prayfcoretta/ womp womp!

Read the whole passage... Sounds like Obama and the girl were being bullied, and he reacted poorly. Lol, clearly the same thing! Are republicans really that incapable of understanding the differences between some of these equivalences they attempt to find?

[thatbox]

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/201...-prayfcoretta/ womp womp!

lol

[Copernicus]

Read the whole passage... Sounds like Obama and the girl were being bullied, and he reacted poorly. Lol, clearly the same thing! Are republicans really that incapable of understanding the differences between some of these equivalences they attempt to find?

He basically just turned to a bully when being bullied, a me too man who can't think for himself and succumbs to peer pressure.

Is this the man you want with his finger on the big red button?

[Chumly]

Read the whole passage... Sounds like Obama and the girl were being bullied, and he reacted poorly. Lol, clearly the same thing! Are republicans really that incapable of understanding the differences between some of these equivalences they attempt to find?

Most Republicans are just that stupid.

[Gr1mLock]

Except my comment is not out of the realm of possibility. The way he reacts to some things and some of his past actions and stories have made me wonder. There are degrees to the disorder, just like any disorder, and things are not really like they are presented in movies. Anyway, you can't really diagnose someone with actually sitting down and evaluating them, but, as i stated, he has made me wonder.

It wouldn't surprise me. He's pretty damn wooden, even for a guy made out of wood. He looks so uncomfortable whenever he has to shake a hand or have anyone in his personal bubble.

[Brinbe]

Most Republican are just that stupid.

Yep!