[Derrick01]

I love them and they greatly enhance the replayability of a game for me. I'm currently playing through MGS2 again and actually trying to get all of the dog tags for the bonus items, something I never bothered doing 10 years ago. I also never touched any of the VR missions until now, because there's a little incentive to now.

Multiplayer trophies need to be buried fast though. There's nothing worse than forcing someone like me who hates playing online to do just that. Achievements should be a strictly single player thing. Or maybe co-op too. Something that stays out of MP and doesn't interrupt the competitive balance and doesn't force us hermits to deal with the assholes that are other human beings.

Absolutely hate them, it killed of cheat devices and cheats in general. Wish you could turn off achievements altogether and be allowed to use cheat devices or that more devs used GTA style cheats(I highly prefer cheat devices, since they are way more flexible).

No it hasn't. I know because as an achievement/trophy whore I've seen plenty of guides warn about using cheats because they usually disable your ability to gain achievements.

[2San]

Umm, there are still cheats, it's up to developers discretion to put them in, most don't now, either to higher ups or pubs who say no, or try to force money out of it On the cheat devices, Sony/MS will want to protect their networks and customers from the retarded-ness that would arise from people putting themselves into GOD mode and run crazy in MP, or everyone has a cheat device, where in the whole game no one dies, 0-0 tie, unless 1 guy who doesn't have it loses the game for you

Which would be an excellent point if so many games weren't single player games. Just work with the manufactures to program an indication that they're on or not and block those who have cheat devices activated. It seriously kills of the fun in most 2nd playthrough.

No it hasn't. I know because as an achievement/trophy whore I've seen plenty of guides warn about using cheats because they usually disable your ability to gain achievements.

Afaik there are no legitimate cheat devices out there atm. How many games do actually have cheats these days though?

[Derrick01]

Afaik there are no legitimate cheat devices out there atm.

Oh you were talking about stuff like gameshark? I don't know anything about those I don't think I used one since the SNES era. I was mostly just referring to in game cheats in general.

[2San]

Oh you were talking about stuff like gameshark? I don't know anything about those I don't think I used one since the SNES era. I was mostly just referring to in game cheats in general.

Yep, they make replays for certain games way better(mostly thinking about RPG's).

[Eusis]

Actually, they are not entirely ignoring achievements. Wii Sports Resort has an internal achievement tracker that unlocks rewards depending on how well you play, and I think other games use a similar model. It's weaker than their competitor's systems, but it's there.

I think their policy is actually more do it game by game, case by case. As much as I rail against them sometimes, how good or not they are usually depends on how arcadey the game is and the kind of design it has, and something like Wii Sports is practically begging for achievements, whereas Mario could go either way and many artsy games/graphic adventures could be worse off for including them.

Which would be an excellent point if so many games weren't single player games. Just work with the manufactures to program an indication that they're on or not and block those who have cheat devices activated. It seriously kills of the fun in most 2nd playthrough.

They're hacking devices though, it seems plausible to me that their use could be used to circumvent security, whether it's for online games or copy protection. These aren't the same as punching in phone numbers in GTA, this is outright reworking a game's code. It's simply safest to bar them, it'd be safer (and more profitable) to just create DLC adding popularly desired cheat abilities, or stick with the traditional codes. And those have their own problems, just look at freemium games.

[2San]

They're hacking devices though, it seems plausible to me that their use could be used to circumvent security, whether it's for online games or copy protection. These aren't the same as punching in phone numbers in GTA, this is outright reworking a game's code. It's simply safest to bar them, it'd be safer (and more profitable) to just create DLC adding popularly desired cheat abilities, or stick with the traditional codes. And those have their own problems, just look at freemium games.

Didn't think about disc locked content and such. Honestly this generation destroyed so much. ._.

[MrBelmontvedere]

couldn't care less about "achievements." IMO they are not harmless fun nor are they hurting the gaming experience. they are literally nothing. meaningless tripe.

[bigdaddygamebot]

Achievements are okay. Gamerscore is reprehensible. If I could delete my gamerscore, I would.

Reprehensible huh?

Really?

Reviewers or press that mark down games because the don't get enough achievement points in the regular play through are worthless cretins.

Hilarious. What reviewers have actually done this?

[ced]

My only gripe with them is there is not an option to disable their obnoxious pop ups, at least that I know of.

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

To me, they've become a part of my game purchasing decisions (for better or for worse). I don't recall it ever actually stopping me from buying a certain game, but i aint gonna lie....before i buy a game i check online for the trophy list and if it has a platinum or not, and see if the platinum is do-able.

I really enjoy them. I'm about to hit platinum #22, and to me they extend the play of games that i have already finished. They're entirely optional so to me it's really not possible for them "hurt" anyone's gaming experience.

[bigdaddygamebot]

My only gripe with them is there is not an option to disable their obnoxious pop ups, at least that I know of.

Pretty sure you can turn off notifications on 360 and PS3.

[ced]

Pretty sure you can turn off notifications on 360 and PS3.

You can, but it's a general notification disable, not specific to those stupid achievements / trophies.

[GraveRobberX]

Which DOES lead me to wonder if, to a degree, they're a fad. It's probably the single biggest reason Nintendo could easily get away ignoring them next generation: they've been around for nearly 7 years, the novelty of a neat new thing to pursue may well have worn off for most people, doesn't help for me the idea of REWARDING in-game seems to have completely vanished rather than being evolved from what ME1 and Crackdown did. Ironically enough, the last two games I remember doing this were Nintendo releases with their own achievement system.

Nintendo has achievements, they are called coins

People go buy games just for the sake of having them in the list so they can qualify for a Tier in the form of goodies from Nintendo, and it's done on a yearly cycle

Even I was enticed, recently
Why not Grab Sin & Punishment for $5 from Best Buy, keep Coin Code (register it), give game away to Free to A Good Home, I don't have a Wii, haven't owned a NINTY console since NES

[TheSeks]

I'm actually most worried about Role Model. I need to find someone willing to work with me on that. Not interested in boosting, but co-operation would help, given it's a co-op achievement!

Those former two are the ones I had to absolutely boost to get. This? Role Model? Easy-peasy.

Co-op Stun
Co-op Assist
Diversion/Rescue.

Basically these three are:

-Stun someone that is chasing your teammate in "open conflict" (chase mode)/kill the person that is running away from a person in chase mode (or the other person does it for you) = Diversion/Rescue
-Lock someone and then your partner kills/stuns them (stun/assist)

Easy. Issue is getting someone able to stick close by and knowing where the enemies are.

[zDeathMagneticz]

As an achievement and trophy whore, I feel that they are ruining games, I try not to go for them, but more often than not I find myself going for them and it ruins games :(

[ironcreed]

I still enjoy a game for what it is, regardless. While I don't feel the need to get every achievement/trophy, it's always neat to see them pop up and fun to go after some of the more interesting ones every now and then. In short, it takes nothing away from the game, but it certainly adds something extra. If you have a problem with them... then just don't go after them and play the game as it is. It's not like they are a mandatory requirement for completing a game.

[GraveRobberX]

As an achievement and trophy whore, I feel that they are ruining games, I try not to go for them, but more often than not I find myself going for them and it ruins games :(

"Stop liking things, that I don't like"; "Stop having fun, Games aren't made for that"; "Why should a feature I don't enjoy/care/hate/detest bring someone else (who) cares/joy/loves, that's unconscionable"

[Skiptastic]

Most of the time, they're harmless and can be fun. They keep me coming back to fun games just for the challenge of getting them. Multiplayer centric ones are lame, though

At the end of the day, I've only 100% achieved three games: Puzzle Quest, Bastion, and Rayman Origins. I don't really feel the need to get achievements if I'm done with playing the game.

[dock]

As a developer that's been forced to implement them in a wholly inappropriate game because of the target platform, I do feel they're harming development.

They do suit some games, and they do suit some players, but as a blanket, universal, cross-game metric, they're pretty lame.

[coldfoot]

Disagree with getting rid of the online multiplayer trophies, but they should not make them specific such that it breaks the game. It should be experience based, like reach level 50 in online so it encourages people to play online, but play it regularly as they normally would and not go after specific objectives.

Of course they should not be as ridiculous as the 10K kill trophy in R2. Something that can be attained in 20 hours of online play would be great.

[mclem]

Easy. Issue is getting someone able to stick close by and knowing where the enemies are.

I know what they are, the problem is, well, the bolded bit. Still, that's why it's a challenge.

I didn't find the 'don't die' goal particularly hard, I've done it a couple of times now. It helps to do it in co-op when you only need to hold out for five minutes rather than ten, given you can't die in the other half of the match. We'll see for Extreme Variety once it's actually something I can realistically work on; I'm still only in the 20s.

[Marleyman]

I absolutely love them. They have made me replay games, which I never used to do.

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

Disagree with getting rid of the online multiplayer trophies, but they should not make them specific such that it breaks the game. It should be experience based, like reach level 50 in online so it encourages people to play online, but play it regularly as they normally would and not go after specific objectives. Of course they should not be as ridiculous as the 10K kill trophy in R2. Something that can be attained in 20 hours of online play would be great.

Multiplayer trophies are fine, but they should NOT count towards a platinum trophy. Not everyone plays online multiplayer. Case in point, that ridiculous trophy in Resistance 2 where you needed to get 10,000 multiplayer kills. I mean, cmon...really?

[CoffeeJanitor]

How is there six pages of discussion on this. I mean really. Talk about overthinking things

[GraveRobberX]

Multiplayer trophies are fine, but they should NOT count towards a platinum trophy. Not everyone plays online multiplayer. Case in point, that ridiculous trophy in Resistance 2 where you needed to get 10,000 multiplayer kills. I mean, cmon...really?

Try the Warhawk 1000+ hours to earn platinum

White Knight Chronicles 500+ hours

Persona/Disgaea 100+ hours

If you get them, hey you do have a little bragging right, deservedly so
Most will go ZOMFG what a waste, dude you have no life, then you have others go, damn perseverance, dedication beyond means, guy really worked for it

[Wolf Dawgz]

I don't even notice them most of the time. I think the only thing they do for me is improve the game if I find out things I can do and try to accomplish them. I never really cared about overall gamerscore because people inflate it with easy game achievements, and it never really felt satisfying. The feeling you get when you're playing with friends for hours trying to get an achievement is more fun and meaningful than renting Hannah Monatana and getting 1000gs for riding a horse.

[Vane_MagicCity]

I would prefer to have Action Replay/Gameshark to "Cheevos" and Trophies. Of course, let's keep in mind that the other reason we don't have those devices anymore is because firmware updates and revisions break them. Though that could be fixed with updates for the cheat devices.

I think cheat devices could work fine if the big three would license them. That way they could be easily detectable when in use and could prevent cheating during online play and could disable achievements and trophies when in use. I remember when Nintendo sued Galoob over the Game Genie and lost. Sega, on the other hand, licensed the Game Genie for the Genesis.

[Derrick01]

Multiplayer trophies are fine, but they should NOT count towards a platinum trophy. Not everyone plays online multiplayer. Case in point, that ridiculous trophy in Resistance 2 where you needed to get 10,000 multiplayer kills. I mean, cmon...really?

I don't even like them counting against my percentage. I don't like seeing a bunch of games at 60-70% even with a platinum because I didn't do DLC trophies or multiplayer stuff. I'd prefer if they didn't do any. If people like multiplayer so much then they shouldn't need trophies to motivate them to kill 10,000 people.

[GungHo]

I'm not the only one, there are many who out there that are loyal to one platform, or some who are platform agnostic

There are many people who are loyal to one platform. Usually those reasons are "I bought this one" or "I bought a ton of crap for this already" or "it has all the games I like and that's not changing" or "they have quality products".

However, you're the first person I've ever seen to say that they're pot-committed because "I got a ton of trophies and I can't leave them behind... because... just because". Damn.

As an achievement and trophy whore, I feel that they are ruining games, I try not to go for them, but more often than not I find myself going for them and it ruins games :(

Seek better living through clomipramine.

As a developer that's been forced to implement them in a wholly inappropriate game because of the target platform, I do feel they're harming development.

I can see where this could be a real problem. Regardless of target platform, achievements and the like aren't always compatible with every game. Sure, in a RPG, it makes sense to get a "Pied Piper" achievement when you've killed your 100th giant rat. But not all games are so goal- or statistically-oriented and getting rewarded for just starting the game up a few times (looking at you, Universe Sandbox) is pretty damn odd.

[mclem]

Multiplayer trophies are fine, but they should NOT count towards a platinum trophy. Not everyone plays online multiplayer. Case in point, that ridiculous trophy in Resistance 2 where you needed to get 10,000 multiplayer kills. I mean, cmon...really?

I rarely play multi - Brotherhood is an exception - but you could extend that logic to "not everyone plays on hard", "not everyone plays for score", "not everyone likes exploration", and end up with tons of things that should 'NOT count towards a platinum trophy'.

Ultimately, I'm okay with a platinum trophy (or 1000/1000) representing "total mastery of the entire game", and not awarding them to people who don't embrace *the entire game* - or, alternatively, separating the achievements into broad brackets (Story progression, Story optional content, co-op multi, competitive multi, that sort of thing), awarding platinums (or 250/250) for each of those, and a diamond trophy (or 1000/1000) for getting all platinums... but that's by no means necessary.

[mclem]

How is there six pages of discussion on this. I mean really. Talk about overthinking things

Well, about half of them are from last year.

[Joni]

There isn't a GameShark for the Wii, so I doubt Trophies and Achievements are what caused the lack of GameShark this gen. Those things just aren't popular enough anymore.

[toythatkills]

I think people that want Gamesharks and stuff really want to be careful what they wish for. How fun do you think it would be to play Call of Duty online against a bunch of people that are effectively hacking the game to give themselves whatever advantages they feel like? Think about it.

It was essential that those things died when gaming moved online, and if it was achievements that killed them (it wasn't) then good for them.

[Alrix]

They're hurting the hell out of gaming experiences, imo. I'm not even a hardcore achievement hunter but I still feel like I'm addicted to them. It sucks. I can't buy a multiplat game for anything other than my 360, and I struggle to play Wii/3ds games unless they're bigtime titles because I won't get achievements for them. Would love a future without achievements.

[toythatkills]

They're hurting the hell out of gaming experiences, imo. I'm not even a hardcore achievement hunter but I still feel like I'm addicted to them. It sucks. I can't buy a multiplat game for anything other than my 360, and I struggle to play Wii/3ds games unless they're bigtime titles because I won't get achievements for them. Would love a future without achievements.

This sounds like it's a problem with you. If there was a future without achievements you'd just keep playing your Xbox 360 because the Xbox 720 titles would feel pointless. And if you think that's wrong, ask yourself why you can't get over it already.

(Not a "problem" in a mean way, just that it's not achievements' fault.)

[Vane_MagicCity]

Achievements aren't mandatory, they aren't punishing you at all.

Can you opt out?

It's called an "achievement" because it's supposed to require some effort.

Except when it doesn't require effort. Blanket statements don't work for achievements.

I think people that want Gamesharks and stuff really want to be careful what they wish for. How fun do you think it would be to play Call of Duty online against a bunch of people that are effectively hacking the game to give themselves whatever advantages they feel like? Think about it. It was essential that those things died when gaming moved online, and if it was achievements that killed them (it wasn't) then good for them.

Don't people cheat online without official cheat devices? Official cheat devices would actually make it easier to determine if someone is cheating. Official cheat devices could easily report if they are running.

There isn't a GameShark for the Wii, so I doubt Trophies and Achievements are what caused the lack of GameShark this gen. Those things just aren't popular enough anymore.

Well I never said that Achievements and Trophies were the only reason. I am fully aware that Nintendo would release an update to break such a device. Look at the Action Replay for the DS.

[Littlegator]

It's the "Attachment" factor Listen I have 104 Platinums, 6,575 Trophies, Level 30, Sony really does have me as their loyal customer I'm not gonna just drop them like a bad habit and go be joib MS/Ninty platform Some out there do balancing acts, some gamers are so ridiculous double dip same game on the HD twins, cause they weren't satiated enough I put my time in with Sony, my "Attachment" with them is very strong, some others with MS, some with NINTY and their coins for free gift factor... hell some are buying games on the cheap for their Wii not to play, just for the code to earn Platinum Status... FAK!, at least us whores play the game LOL

They're paying money for platinum status because they get a real world collectible item from it.

You get numbers.

I don't even get it. I can see getting multiplats on your respective achievement farming console, but you're so loyal to your trophies that you won't play first party Nintendo titles? You don't have to be an exclusive customer to be a loyal customer. It's illogical.

[toythatkills]

Except when it doesn't require effort. Blanket statements don't work for achievements.

All achievements require effort. Even the one for pressing start in The Simpsons requires a conscious effort on your part to press the start button. Okay, the effort is infinitesimal, but it's still there.

Don't people cheat online without official cheat devices? Official cheat devices would actually make it easier to determine if someone is cheating. Official cheat devices could easily report if they are running.

Then you start segregating your community. "You can't play with this person because they have cheats on" or something. It's just more hassle than it's worth and I don't really see what the benefit is. What do you actually want to do with them?

[-viper-]

Achivements and trophies are a sad way to arbitary extend the life of a game.

If you want to waste time replaying a game just for a trophy, then be my guest.

When I stopped caring about trophies and achivements, I was able to spend less time wasted on doing useless things in game and more time actually playing different games.

[Alrix]

This sounds like it's a problem with you. If there was a future without achievements you'd just keep playing your Xbox 360 because the Xbox 720 titles would feel pointless. And if you think that's wrong, ask yourself why you can't get over it already. (Not a "problem" in a mean way, just that it's not achievements' fault.)

If they didn't exist like in the old days I wouldn't have this problem, though. There's a number (your gamerscore or trophy count or whatever) that you always want to get higher. It would be one thing if you could unlock stuff for it, it's totally another thing if it means nothing. I just want to keep raising my gamerscore to have it higher than my friends. Like I said I don't hunt achievements but I feel the effect they're supposed to have on me.

[dab0ne]

Get rid of any tied to online multi-player.

OH MY GOD THIS!!!!! I currently can't platinum Dead Rising 2 Off the Record because there is no one to help me get the gold medals in the freaking co-op parts. Pisses me off. With that said I have about 5 plats and I recently started doing it to extend the life of my games. It got me to play older games of mine that I hadn't played in a while. Basically it's saving me some money and giving my older tiles more replay value.

[MikeE21286]

Harmless fun for me.

Only because I view them as a list of my gami accomplishments/history.

I'm not really concerned with my score or wasting my time achieving impossible ones.

[toythatkills]

If they didn't exist like in the old days I wouldn't have this problem, though. There's a number (your gamerscore or trophy count or whatever) that you always want to get higher. It would be one thing if you could unlock stuff for it, it's totally another thing if it means nothing. I just want to keep raising my gamerscore to have it higher than my friends. Like I said I don't hunt achievements but I feel the effect they're supposed to have on me.

But they do exist now though, and always will have existed. What's the difference between playing a DS game now, and playing an Xbox720 game in a year's time which doesn't have achievements? Neither will be earning you achievements so why would one break the curse but not the other.

If you think you'll be fine with Xbox720 games with no achievements, then why can't you be okay with DS games?

I've never really cared about that number though. I care about my percentage and I care about individual games, but never the overall number. It's completely meaningless, a demonstration of who has the most games and the most time to play them, rather than any indication of skill. There's really no point fixating on that aspect of them.

[Vane_MagicCity]

All achievements require effort. Even the one for pressing start in The Simpsons requires a conscious effort on your part to press the start button. Okay, the effort is infinitesimal, but it's still there. Then you start segregating your community. "You can't play with this person because they have cheats on" or something. It's just more hassle than it's worth and I don't really see what the benefit is. What do you actually want to do with them?

Ok, not all acheivements require extra effort. In fact, any achievement or trophy I ever got was done by simply playing the game.

No, you wouldn't segregate the community, people with active cheat devices would be told they can't play until they disable it. Cheat devices should be available for single player.

[toythatkills]

Cheat devices should be available for single player.

But what for?

[Vane_MagicCity]

But what for?

Because people like them.

[toythatkills]

Because people like them.

No, what for?

What do you want to use them for? What is their use?

[Joni]

Because people like them.

No they don't. Four companies don't decide to dump their most known product just because. At the start of the generation there wouldn't have been any reason not to release a PS3 (there weren't any trophies then) or Wii version.

[Stallion Free]

If I think I can accomplish a full set of achievements, I usually go for it (on Steam).

If I don't think I will be able to without becoming irritated, I just ignore them.

[mclem]

I think cheat devices could work fine if the big three would license them. That way they could be easily detectable when in use and could prevent cheating during online play and could disable achievements and trophies when in use. I remember when Nintendo sued Galoob over the Game Genie and lost. Sega, on the other hand, licensed the Game Genie for the Genesis.

How do you stop the cheat device from modifying the code that detects the cheat device?