[SuperEpicMan]

I still haven't gotten around to completing the civil war quest line, but I think it would have been better if they incorporated it into the main quest line.

It is kind of silly that the civil war frequently a topic during the main story line but completely separate. They should have made it where after you meet the grey beards, they tell you that the world must be untied if there is going to be any chance of defeating alduin. You could then have to unify the factions of skyrim by killing off one of the leaders, kind of like mass effect 3 and the reaper threat (one of the things the game did right lol).

Anywho overall I found the story weaker than oblivions, I liked the whole allies for bruma levels and paradise level. Plus the single player kind of gave you a taste of the different guilds.

[tiff]

Just like with Oblivion my experience was this: Do the tutorial and be bored really quickly, then forget about the main storyline after about 2 hours, then wander around and do shit for around 10 hours, then never play the game ever again.

That's usually how it goes for me. I stuck with the main storyline for slightly longer than other Bethesda games, though looking back I'm not sure why.

[SuperEpicMan]

That's usually how it goes for me. I stuck with the main storyline for slightly longer than other Bethesda games, though looking back I'm not sure why.

With Skyrim and Oblivion, I find that it never immediately hooks you. When I first played Oblivion, I did so for a few hours and wasn't really feeling it, but then after a certain quest or something, the game clicked with me and I was hooked on it for hundreds of hours and multiple playthroughs. With Skyrim I was the same but a little more hesitant about the changes from Oblivion, but afterwards I ended up with a hundred hour save file.

Its the same when I fancy getting back into it, you have to kind of get back into the right mindset. I haven't played it in a while, but wanna start playing it again in the summer for the expansion packs and the other quest lines I haven't done yet.

[kodt]

Skyrim, Oblivion etc.. are awesome until the illusion of a living world is broken.

At first, you run into random camps of stormcloaks, you hear talk of the war. 95% of the world is unexplored and you are eager to see it. You explore ruins, caves, and dungeons looking for loot and doing side quests you find along the way. It is just amazing, you are totally engrossed in the world.

20 hours later you have seen most of the major cities. Every dungeon feels just like another one you have seen before. You have completed a few questlines and have some good gear so you rarely find good loot. There is really no war going on at all, the camps are static in their spots. The illusion is broken and you no longer feel motivated to explore.

[Enco]

The problem with Skyrim is that it's full of shitty fetch quests.

It's my most played game with at over 100 hours. I have no incentive to go back. The quests all seem pretty boring now.

[Perkel]

Skyrim, Oblivion etc.. are awesome until the illusion of a living world is broken. At first, you run into random camps of stormcloaks, you hear talk of the war. 95% of the world is unexplored and you are eager to see it. You explore ruins, caves, and dungeons looking for loot and doing side quests you find along the way. It is just amazing, you are totally engrossed in the world. 20 hours later you have seen most of the major cities. Every dungeon feels just like another one you have seen before. You have completed a few questlines and have some good gear so you rarely find good loot. There is really no war going on at all, the camps are static in their spots. The illusion is broken and you no longer feel motivated to explore.

/Thread

[Derrick01]

Skyrim, Oblivion etc.. are awesome until the illusion of a living world is broken. At first, you run into random camps of stormcloaks, you hear talk of the war. 95% of the world is unexplored and you are eager to see it. You explore ruins, caves, and dungeons looking for loot and doing side quests you find along the way. It is just amazing, you are totally engrossed in the world. 20 hours later you have seen most of the major cities. Every dungeon feels just like another one you have seen before. You have completed a few questlines and have some good gear so you rarely find good loot. There is really no war going on at all, the camps are static in their spots. The illusion is broken and you no longer feel motivated to explore.

This sums it up pretty well. The idea that I was having fun with this game was pretty much an illusion that took ~50 hours to shatter and realize just how pointless everything is/was. The open world hooked me until I realized that I was finding shitty scaled loot everywhere, that every quest I had was some variant of the "addictive" MMO formula and there was no memorable quests, and that the civil war was storming a fort with 5 people against maybe 20. It was a war if you consider some meth addict locking himself in his trailer and waiting for SWAT to storm it a war.

[Ledsen]

Skyrim, Oblivion etc.. are awesome until the illusion of a living world is broken. At first, you run into random camps of stormcloaks, you hear talk of the war. 95% of the world is unexplored and you are eager to see it. You explore ruins, caves, and dungeons looking for loot and doing side quests you find along the way. It is just amazing, you are totally engrossed in the world. 20 hours later you have seen most of the major cities. Every dungeon feels just like another one you have seen before. You have completed a few questlines and have some good gear so you rarely find good loot. There is really no war going on at all, the camps are static in their spots. The illusion is broken and you no longer feel motivated to explore.

All TES games are like that, sadly. The difference is that for some people (like you) it lasts 20 hours, but for others (like me) it lasts 100 hours. Then again, I'm not expecting a dynamic, living world because I've played all the other games in the series. My motivation to explore is mainly to experience the atmosphere of the world, not furthering the story or getting tons of loot.

[Kiraly]

The main problem for me was mostly - every bloody dungeon had the same items? Or once you had a decent set of equipment, everything you would find was mostly trash and seen ten times before.

[CecilRousso]

Skyrim, Oblivion etc.. are awesome until the illusion of a living world is broken. At first, you run into random camps of stormcloaks, you hear talk of the war. 95% of the world is unexplored and you are eager to see it. You explore ruins, caves, and dungeons looking for loot and doing side quests you find along the way. It is just amazing, you are totally engrossed in the world. 20 hours later you have seen most of the major cities. Every dungeon feels just like another one you have seen before. You have completed a few questlines and have some good gear so you rarely find good loot. There is really no war going on at all, the camps are static in their spots. The illusion is broken and you no longer feel motivated to explore.

I did feel that way after 40 hour. I played the civil war quests and the quests related to the Shrine of Mara, which both felt like bad jokes, which gave me Skyrim fatigue. But I kept going and did get over it, and after 77 hour know that I still have so much left to see. I have the last part of the main quest left, I haven´t done the questlines for the mage guild and fighters guild (the circle), still haven´t encountered that many daedra quests, haven´t seen the assassins brotherhood, just caught a climpse of the vampire, heard that there are werewolves but haven´t encountered it, just found my first glass weapons, found only one ebony weapon, still have a lot of dungeons I haven´t visited, etc.

I haven´t played a lot of the old 2d RPG´s, but compared to many other modern RPG, Skyrim for me feels much much more alive. I mean, should we compare it to Mass Effect 2 where the same persons stood in line to a night club for the whole game and every quest was a linear corridor with chest high walls? Or The Witcher 2 (that I do like very much) which while it did have much better quests and story, did have many illusion breaking aspects - people saying one line and only one, over and over again, all these walls, and stuff like that?

Maybe I while tire of it after 100 hours, but geez, there are almost no other single player outside the strategy genre that can last even half that time for me before I get tired of it.

It´s a big shame that Bethesda couldn´t take note of how New Vegas handled quests, and that the civil war thing is a joke. But come on, they do deserve some credit for this game despite this, dont they? And if not, what are the best examples of open world RPG´s that does feel more living, dynamic and better written?

[Derrick01]

All TES games are like that, sadly. The difference is that for some people (like you) it lasts 20 hours, but for others (like me) it lasts 100 hours. Then again, I'm not expecting a dynamic, living world because I've played all the other games in the series. My motivation to explore is mainly to experience the atmosphere of the world, not furthering the story or getting tons of loot.

The difference with Morrowind was at the time it released it was actually ambitious and at the top of its genre. In the years since the RPG genre has grown in a lot of areas but Bethesda's answer has been lower production values in comparison to the rest of the genre AND a dumbed down RPG. There's no longer anything unique or special about their games.

[PatMcAtee]

Game isnt that huge. Look at your map once you have discovered most of the areas and it is packed. Most of the dungeons/towns have their own thing going on and are unique.

[gcubed]

my main problem towards the end of the game is that, at least as a mage, you can make yourself invincible and basically break the game.

I can walk into a dungeon, spawn 2 guys and sit behind a wall for a few minutes as a majority of the dungeon is destroyed. When i get in trouble, I crafted things so that my destruction magic is free and i can just spam fireballs.

A little too powerful

[Air Zombie Meat]

Not surprised to read all these complaints that could be taken straight from Oblivion. I was honestly baffled by all of the Skyrim hype on gaf when it released. Bethesda games are kind of like that though, really good at giving the illusion of something special until you figure out how everything under the hood works (e.g. scaling, copy paste dungeons). I think thats also why people end up more bitter about their games. You can invest a long time into them until you realise how shallow it all is.

[TheMan]

The main problem for me was mostly - every bloody dungeon had the same items? Or once you had a decent set of equipment, everything you would find was mostly trash and seen ten times before.

for me this was the biggest problem. I could stand going through the copy paste dungeons if I knew there was good loot to be found, but at this point everything is crap. I also don't like that the only way to get the very best possible weapons is to break your character by investing everything into smithing and potion making.

[Dark FaZe]

The games could really use better combat and characters.

Due to the linearity and lack of depth or variety to the combat I always run into this wall at around level 20+ where I want to respec because I've been shooting arrows for 20 hours or whatever and am interested in using other things. They definitely need to open up the combat a little more next time.

Also it would be a lot easier to break through that "respec" wall if I had something driving me forward. The game desperately needs better depth, individual quest lines, etc as it relates to companions. They need to bring some of what Bioware is doing into their games.

[Arnie]

I completely agree with the OP and I'd add the second biggest problem with it is the absolutely abhorrent combat system.

I agree that vastness is definitely a trait that the series cannot afford to lose, but I think there's a middle ground between what we have now and a slightly more focused environment.

Playing The Witcher 2 recently also reminded me how poor the combat in Skyrim is. It's devoid of nuance and timing, and basically boils down to a hack and slash borefest.

[Evolved1]

This sums it up pretty well. The idea that I was having fun with this game was pretty much an illusion that took ~50 hours to shatter and realize just how pointless everything is/was. The open world hooked me until I realized that I was finding shitty scaled loot everywhere, that every quest I had was some variant of the "addictive" MMO formula and there was no memorable quests, and that the civil war was storming a fort with 5 people against maybe 20. It was a war if you consider some meth addict locking himself in his trailer and waiting for SWAT to storm it a war.

Yep. And once you realize all of this... you cannot forgive the shittastic combat. Since combat is the game. It is 90% of the game.

Maybe if they had good combat, then the MMO quests and scaling wouldn't feel as empty and pointless.

This is how you fix Skyrim: good combat, no shitty scaling, and keep all but the most important, significant quests LOCAL!

I completely agree with the OP and I'd add the second biggest problem with it is the absolutely abhorrent combat system. I agree that vastness is definitely a trait that the series cannot afford to lose, but I think there's a middle ground between what we have now and a slightly more focused environment. Playing The Witcher 2 recently also reminded me how poor the combat in Skyrim is. It's devoid of nuance and timing, and basically boils down to a hack and slash borefest.

The vastness isn't even a problem. Honestly, Skyrim feels small to me. I feel like I walk for 20 seconds and I'm in the next big village/city. The problem is that they send you all over the fucking map on mundane fetch quests, and you don;t get an oppostunity to really soak in and learn any of the towns. You just enter a town and the first quest you get asks that you travel somewhere far away, to get some bullshit item, and when you get to that town... the first person you talk to wants to send you somewhere else! You end up with 5 million open quests and no sense of purpose...

Bethesda is just not a good developer. They make interesting worlds and then completely underutilize -- often sabotage -- them. They are like a sports team that doesn't understand the fundamentals.

[WhatRobEats]

If any game needed "One million twooops" it was Skyrim.

[Tex117]

The arc of Skyrim

First 20 Hours=BEST VIDEO GAME EVER

next 20 Hours=GREAT GAME! But haven't I been doing alot of quests and nothing is really happening

Next 20 Hours= Wait, none of what I have been doing actually matters. Good game.

Next <20 Hours= Im finishing up, Im done.


The recent elderscolls games have had an issue with the cities (though Skyrim did a much better job than Oblivion did in making the city come to life). The load screens are awful and need to be worked in the cities...It becomes awful having to load every house when you are exploring.

My favorite part of the game is when you are just wandering around out there...Music...Best hiking simulator on any platform!

[ironcreed]

For me, The Elder Scrolls has always just been about being in the atmospheric and massive worlds. I can just spend hours wondering around and losing myself. For this reason alone, it will always be one of my favorite series and I think the latest entry in Skyrim is absolutely amazing in this regard.

Now, the problem I have always had with the series, and still do, is the combat. While I am so used to it that it really does not phase me while I am playing, I can't help but be reminded of it when I play another game within the same genre that does it so much better. You can't help but think of how amazing the series would be if it only had a competent combat system.

Seems like a difficult prospect beings it is first person, but even the panned Dark Messiah of Might and Magic made the first person perspective interesting in a fantasy setting. I say take the core ideas at work there, refine it, build on it, and you could have some amazing first person gameplay for the Elder Scrolls.

[edgefusion]

My problem with Skyrim is that despite it taking place 200 years after Oblivion their technology hasn't improved at all.

[The Albatross]

Agreed on the overall effects of your actions. But I waver back and forth on how Skyrim / Gamebryo treats 'alive' worlds. One thing I really like that games like Assassins Creed or GTA do not do at all is that Skyrim / Gamebryo gives personalities and personas to all characters in the game. Even if the character just has 4 or 5 one liners, like the children, each character has a name, an identity, a home, and does things every day. It's part of what makes the world seem that much more personable. You will never run into a Mai'q the Liar in AC or GTA... You'll never be able to really follow a weird character from point A to B, like Gob in Fallout 3, or that mutant who you help out and he travels across the entire world in FO3 in a bizarre pattern, to unlock the rare power armor.

There's stuff that Gamebryo games do with their characters better than others. But the sacrifice is that they cant have hundreds of nameless, nonexistent characters wandering around.

[mt1200]

I disliked the fact that every dungeon is a cave full of zombies and spiders, they couldn't make any interesting dungeon.

[Deified Data]

Coming from Oblivion the one real issue was the emptiness of the world, This was something I hoped Skyrim would dramatically improve on but it didn't really. I wanted cities to be bursting with life, not every person needs to be interactive completely but Im talking Assassin creed like crowds but better, Smart and interact in a very real way. Something I feel Skyrim failed at capturing also was the feel of war raging in Skyrim, there was very little consequence to what you did regarding siding with the Stormcloaks or Imperials. The world didn't dramatically change at all. That cause and effect needs to have more baring visually for me. Wouldnt it have been great if you could level whole towns...like Nuke(fallout 3) Whiterun ? instead of holding the keep with no change at all. In your cause to safe guard Skyrim from a Rebel threat you unintentionally burn it to the ground...those sort of choices should have been there. There was so many great things they could have done. The system Mass Effect has in place is quite similar to what I wanted to see. the Final battle should have been different based on those individuals quests it took to reach. What if you had leveled towns to spite the Stormcloaks, yet only for the common nord in the end to uprise and attack you as well. Skyrim would dramatically change for an Imperial soldier, you would go from a protector to an Occupying force where you would be treated with fear instead of respect. Shops could refuse to sell to you, Inns could refuse your stay. Followers could leave you, or perhaps be the total opposite. A great of a game it is, I feel it could perhaps should have been greater.

...and Khajiit characters shouldn't be let into towns, let alone made Thanes.

...and elf characters shouldn't be allowed to join the xenophobic Stormcloaks.

...and guards around Skyrim shouldn't comment on the secret murders my stealthy assassin committed when no one was around.

Yeah, I agree that there are inconsistencies with the world. Like any game, you sort of have to suspend your disbelief on some things to get the full enjoyment. I'm not a brainwashed Skyrim apologist, either - it takes only playing games like Dark Souls or Kingdoms of Amalur to see all the things that Skyrim did wrong.

In regards to your actions having a greater effect on the story, it's important to note that this isn't a Bioware game, and that the option to choose sides in Skyrim is a consession that Bethesda doesn't often make. Or, to be precise, Bethesda has a vision for the world of Tamriel, and your character, no matter how powerful, is nothing more than a bit player in that. Fact is, when TESVI rolls around, Bethesda doesn't want to have to explain away how both sides could have won the conflict simultaneously. They've had to do shit like that before and it fucked their lore up (The Warp in the West, for you loremasters out there). So, at the end of the day, what you do in Skyrim regarding the civil war will have no effect on larger Tamriel. The event that will be remembered is the defeat of Alduin, not whether the Imperials or Stormcloaks won. Places like Windhelm and Solitude are major locations in TES canon - so while it'd be nice to raze them to the ground, that's not really something Bethesda wants to let the player do in the interests of maintaining a coherent history.

That said, I agree that the war could be better felt as you play the game. It'd be nice to occasionally wander across small fueding groups of soldiers and be able to choose a side. But it's worth mentioning that, during the events of Skyrim, you exist in a sort of cold war leading up to outright hostilities - the war itself has not really started yet. The major players, Ulfric and Elisef/Tullius, are still making alliances and building up their war machine. You don't see massive battles erupting all over the place because that's not where we're at in the history of it. Those battles come later, when you take over forts and cities. If you're wondering why there aren't hundreds of soldiers pouring out of every crevice, it's because Skyrim simply isn't the kind of game that could handle something like that.

As a sidenote, I'm having a hard time understanding where people are getting this "all the dungeons are the same" nonsense. Almost every dungeon you explore has some sort of subtext to it. I guess I can understand this perspective if they think the only purpose of dungeon crawling is getting more loot. I do it for the joy of the experience, itself.

Skyrim is perfect at what it does, IMO. We can wish it was more like something else, but it is what it is.

[magicalsoundshower]

I thought Skyrim's cities were fine for the "icy, harsh and sparsely populated semi-wasteland" feel they were going for. But I admit, after seeing Freeside in Fallout: New Vegas, I couldn't help but feel a bit disappointed. I know the latter consists of a number of segments, but it felt so alive and busy it really seemed to push the boundaries of the Gamebryo engine. Having the capical of Skyrim have a similar feel would have been pretty awesome.

[Erethian]

Playing New Vegas again recently made me realise how much better that game is at having the environment and factions react to the choices you've made, than Skyrim is. Which is a shame because the potential is there, it's just never fully realised in recent Elder Scrolls games. And you don't even need to do it on a grand scale for it to be effective or meaningful, so it's not like they wouldn't have the time to do it.

[br0ken_shad0w]

Scaling was the last straw. I can forgive the repetitiveness if I can feel a sense of progression and exploration but that killed it for me. Once the initial honeymoon period is over, I just can't continue playing. Already summed up my thoughts here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=409

It makes me want to go back and play Nehrim again. It was basically Elder Scrolls done right. Especially since I stopped becoming a hoard monster.

[Raptomex]

My issue is the combat. It's always been terrible and I'm pretty sure by now they can actually make it so we're not just hacking away to kill someone.