[Magnus]

It's not essential. It's just *ACOK* something that Tyrion is responsible for that turns the tide of the battle. In the books Tyrion essentially saves King's Landing and gets no credit for it. In the show, he's done nothing to deserve real credit.

Gotcha. [COK] Yeah, they can totally just attribute some other 'turning the tide' moment to him. The Wildfire alone would do it.

[3rdman]

Aside from the visual...flair of it all, someone remind me why cutting [COK]the chain out of Blackwater is all that big a deal? It was just a devious battle tactic, but nothing really essential to the storyline...right?

Essentially yes. But aside from knowing who the winning side is, you can argue that nothing within the battle will matter either. The chain saves the city...without it, the ships land and the chances of the wildfire destroying the city from within is likely. From Tyrion's perspective, he saved the city and is later tossed aside for more "heroic" actors to play that role...it's a defining moment in his story arc.

[Ithil]

This thread had devolved into pedantic bookreader whining. Ruined Jamie's character? He pushed Bran out a freakin' window!! He slaughtered Ned's men in cold blood! He's irredeemably evil at this point. Oh oh oh he killed a Lannister. Who cares. The TV audience doesn't know about the kinslaying thing. The scene with Jaime taking to Catelyn could not have been done better. Loved it.

I'm not sure you used irredeemable correctly.

[Creamium]

Surprised to see some negative impressions for this episode, I thought it was incredible. Ygritte was once again the highlight of the episode (girl can act), and the Arya/Tywin scenes were great as usual, as were Theon's. Best line : '... and gag him!'. Fairley was really good this ep.

[MattDoza]

Was the ending last night a rouse?

I immediately started saying that to my sister, whom I watched it with. That's not the Stark boys. It's not. Book readers, shush! Don't tell me if it is.

[jayb]

I immediately started saying that to my sister, whom I watched it with. That's not the Stark boys. It's not. Book readers, shush! Don't tell me if it is.

You really should use this thread if you haven't read the books: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=467562

[MattDoza]

You really should use this thread if you haven't read the books: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=467562

Will do, from here on out. Thanks.

[Frost_Ace]

The only change from the books I didn't like is that Jaime KILLED HIS FUCKING COUSIN. Why make him a kinslayer as well? That was completely out of character and unnecessary.

[Lothar]

Yes really. In CoK all Dany does is walk through the desert, ask for help in Mereen, get turned down, and then leave after burning down the House of Undying. Her story only gets interesting in the last two chapters when she escapes the House and then meets Arstan. In the show though, they've introduced this new plotline where Xharo is conspiring for power against the 13, and takes power through murdering them. It adds a lot to the story other than, "damn no one in Mereen will help Dany..." which is how it is in the books.

Why is this new plotlne more interesting? I much prefer Dany selling all of her possessions and still getting turned down for a ship because it's more realistic and makes me feel sorry for her. I don't feel anything about Xaro conspiring against the Thirteen. I just feel like that's a big waste of time.

[Amir0x]

Surprised to see some negative impressions for this episode, I thought it was incredible. Ygritte was once again the highlight of the episode (girl can act), and the Arya/Tywin scenes were great as usual, as were Theon's. Best line : '... and gag him!'. Fairley was really good this ep.

directing was all over the place again, but other than that it was one of the better episodes so far. lots of consistent thematics, great spread of character development without seeming like anyone was missing out much (even Stannis, who we didn't see, we heard was on the move with 200 ships).

i am just mainly unsure as to what they're doing in Dany's story. i mean, killing off the thirteen? da fug?

[The Lamonster]

The only change from the books I didn't like is that Jaime KILLED HIS FUCKING COUSIN. Why make him a kinslayer as well? That was completely out of character and unnecessary.

Yep. That was idiotic of the writers.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

directing was all over the place again, but other than that it was one of the better episodes so far. lots of consistent thematics, great spread of character development without seeming like anyone was missing out much (even Stannis, who we didn't see, we heard was on the move with 200 ships). i am just mainly unsure as to what they're doing in Dany's story. i mean, killing off the thirteen? da fug?

Eh, who cares about the thirteen? I didn't even remember there was a thirteen.

The only thirteen that matters is in Rome.

Jaime killing his cousin doesn't bother me. He's a man with shit for honor and knows it. He wanted to be free, he doesn't care about the gods or what other people may think of him. All he wants to do is kill people and fuck his sister.

[Halvie]

I immediately started saying that to my sister, whom I watched it with. That's not the Stark boys. It's not. Book readers, shush! Don't tell me if it is.

Doesn't it kind of have to be... one dire wolf goes from killing ~16 whatever lanister soldiers and 2 can't take ~12 guys...sure sure. If it is true it is shit writing.

[scosher]

This is now the 2nd spring in a row where I pretty much get no work done on Mondays because of Game of Thrones.

[The Lamonster]

(ACOK)
They may cut the chain, which would suck, but I am going to be really pissed if they cut "is your sword sharp, Jon Snow?"

And then they give 10 more minutes to Ros.

[luxarific]

directing was all over the place again, but other than that it was one of the better episodes so far. lots of consistent thematics, great spread of character development without seeming like anyone was missing out much (even Stannis, who we didn't see, we heard was on the move with 200 ships). i am just mainly unsure as to what they're doing in Dany's story. i mean, killing off the thirteen? da fug?

Did they really kill off the Thirteen, or was it only Pyat Pree trying to scare Dany enough so that she would come to the House of the Undying in person? That whole scene felt unreal to me, so I'm not convinced they're actually dead.

[3rdman]

Eh, who cares about the thirteen? I didn't even remember there was a thirteen. The only thirteen that matters is in Rome. Jaime killing his cousin doesn't bother me. He's a man with shit for honor and knows it. He wanted to be free, he doesn't care about the gods or what other people may think of him. All he wants to do is kill people and fuck his sister.

Jaime has his own sense of honor and one that he touched upon during that scene with Cat in the cage. He is about protecting his and his own and the rest of the world could burn...Turning him into a kinslayer was short-sighted and needless. There are a dozen ways a captor could be coaxed into a cell...why turn him into a person that would murder his own blood. Bad move on the writer's part but ultimately it will be forgotten...

[The Lamonster]

Did they really kill off the Thirteen, or was it only Pyat Pree trying to scare Dany enough so that she would come to the House of the Undying in person? That whole scene felt unreal to me, so I'm not convinced they're actually dead.

I thought killing the Thirteen was well done, as well as having the dragons stolen. It was a strong addition to the story.

We now have a clear motive for Dany to visit the House of the Undying. (ACOK) She also now has a good reason to be pissed at the warlocks.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Jaime has his own sense of honor and one that he touched upon during that scene with Cat in the cage. He is about protecting his and his own and the rest of the world could burn...Turning him into a kinslayer was short-sighted and needless. There are a dozen ways a captor could be coaxed into a cell...why turn him into a person that would murder his own blood. Bad move on the writer's part but ultimately it will be forgotten...

ASOS Tyrion kills his father and no one (the readers that is) seems to find that a problem. What does it matter that Jaime kills his distant cousin?

[Beysus]

I liked the episode. A bit slow paced, but I still loved it.
Pyat Pree is such a shady mofo. And the Jamie & Brienne combo...LOL


Only 3 more eps to go pffffff

[The Lamonster]

I liked the episode. A bit slow paced, but I still loved it. Pyat Pree is such a shady mofo. And the Jamie & Brienne combo...LOL Only 3 more eps to go pffffff

"Is that a woman?"

[Steelyuhas]

Anybody want to speculate on how [series spoiler]Barristan Selmy will be reintroduced? HBO obviously can't hide the fact that he's Arstan like Martin did when it was all just text in the original books, but I'm wondering if he'll just never be incognito or if it will be one of those things where the AUDIENCE knows who he is but Dany & company are in the dark.

series I think they'll probably slap a beard on him, but it will still be obvious to the audience who it is. I don't really see that as an issue either, as it will create some tension for the audience with her not knowing who she is the an inevitable likelihood of her finding out and what she will do.

[scosher]

Jaime has his own sense of honor and one that he touched upon during that scene with Cat in the cage. He is about protecting his and his own and the rest of the world could burn...Turning him into a kinslayer was short-sighted and needless. There are a dozen ways a captor could be coaxed into a cell...why turn him into a person that would murder his own blood. Bad move on the writer's part but ultimately it will be forgotten...

Jaime does not give a shit about his relatives outside of his nuclear family.

From Book 2:

Cersei would have him killed out of hand if she learned he was betraying her, and if by some grace of the gods she did not, Lancel would never survive the day Jaime Lannister returned to King's Landing. The only question would be whether Jaime cut him down in a jealous rage, or Cersei murdered him first to keep Jaime from finding out.

Again in Book 2, in a conversation between Jaime and Catelyn:

"You admit to being your sister's lover?" "I've always loved my sister, and you owe me two answers. Do all my kin still live?" "Ser Stafford Lannister was slain at Oxcross, I am told." Jaime was unmoved. "Uncle Dolt, my sister called him. it's Cersei and Tyrion who concern me. As well as my lord father."

From Book 3, in regards to Jaime's opinion of his cousin, Cleos Frey:

They found Cleos still tangled in his stirrup. He had an arrow through his right arm and a second in his chest, but it was the ground that had done for him. The top of his head was matted with blood and mushy to the touch, pieces of broken bone moving under the skin beneath the pressure of Jaime's hand. Brienne knelt and held his hand. "He's still warm." "He'll cool soon enough. I want his horse and his clothes. I'm weary of rags and fleas." "He was your cousin." The wench was shocked. "Was," Jaime agreed. "Have no fear, I am amply provisioned in cousins.

Jaime killing Alton Lannister really isn't out of character. (ASOS)I think you're trying to reconcile his actions with the person Jaime eventually becomes. But it took Catelyn letting him free on just a word, traveling with Brienne, and ultimately losing his fighting hand for Jaime to gain a heart toward anyone but his siblings.

[bengraven]

Just started watching it now due to a busy three day weekend.

Watching the preview from last episode, it still creeps me out how much the screaming dragons sounded like scared children.

[gdt]

Jaime does not give a shit about his relatives outside of his nuclear family. From Book 2: Again in Book 2, in a conversation between Jaime and Catelyn: From Book 3, in regards to Jaime's opinion of his cousin, Cleos Frey: Jaime killing Alton Lannister really isn't out of character. (ASOS)I think you're trying to reconcile his actions with the person Jaime eventually becomes. But it took Catelyn letting him free on just a word, traveling with Brienne, and ultimately losing his fighting hand for Jaime to gain a heart toward anyone but his siblings.

Good points, but I'm not sure your very last one is true. Remember the Kingslaying.

[Spirit of Jazz]

i am just mainly unsure as to what they're doing in Dany's story. i mean, killing off the thirteen? da fug?

I think it's just a matter of them giving her some more effective antagonists this season. I'm interested in finding out what's in Xaro's vault.

[aceface]

I'm not sure you used irredeemable correctly.

"beyond redemption; irreclaimable"

enlighten me?

[Enco]

It never even crossed my mind that the final 2 kids were the Stark boys.

If it was meant to then it was done awfully like everyone else is saying.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I think it's just a matter of them giving her some more effective antagonists this season. I'm interested in finding out what's in Xaro's vault.

ACOK The Blackfish.

[ronito]

directing was all over the place again, but other than that it was one of the better episodes so far. lots of consistent thematics, great spread of character development without seeming like anyone was missing out much (even Stannis, who we didn't see, we heard was on the move with 200 ships). i am just mainly unsure as to what they're doing in Dany's story. i mean, killing off the thirteen? da fug?

Actually I got that and I thought it was a really good change. (ADWD spoilers) It makes Xaro more dangerous so when you get to book and he threatens really when I read that I was like "Meh..." now it seems a lot more dangerous.

[The Lamonster]

ACOK The Blackfish.

haha and Meera and Jojen!

[Schweinehund]

[series spoilers]I actually consider daenery's story an improvement over the books. Its hard to care for daenerys when she has little ties to westeros besides words, and when the story is boring and slow paced.

[bengraven]

Tywin and Arya is so awesome.

It's like she's part adored grandchild, part hostage that he would kill in a heartbeat.

[apana]

The actor who plays Jaime is very good. Once in a while his performance can feel a bit off but he always delivers his jokes/insults well. He is very good at capturing that mocking side of Jaime. I really enjoyed the "she wolf" line and the jokes about Brienne.

[catotheyounger]

I thought the Jaime scene was well done. ie the caged alpha male lion killing the cub to increase its chances of survival.

[bengraven]

HA! YES.

"You know nothing...Jon Snow"

[Ithil]

Anyone see Larry from OtakuASSEMBLE's review?

(CoK) A friend of his (presumably someone he knows to be familiar with the books) told him it was really Bran and Rickon who were killed by Theon and co. Before that he'd been figuring it was the farm orphans. He's since been told it was a lie, but his review is awkward since he's doing it on false info

[CassSept]

Once again I'm unsure how to react to the episode. Even if the general picture is the same, it's a completely free interpretation of the source material instead of adaptation by now/

ASOS Tyrion kills his father and no one (the readers that is) seems to find that a problem. What does it matter that Jaime kills his distant cousin?

ASOS Even if, as scosher had noted, he cared less about Cleos in the books, there is still a great stigma against kinslaying there AND especially since even after throwing away other rules Lannisters protect their kin greatly. This is boosted by Cleos Frey becoming a Lannister in the TV series. It felt really off for me, the biggest character and/or story change for me yet. Well, maybe Cersei being so honest with Tyrion. Overall most of the Lannisters that exist in the TV realm had been completely flipped on their head. While it might benefit some of them (Arya/Tywin scenes are fantastic), it still feels off.


Edit:

Anyone see Larry from OtakuASSEMBLE's review? (CoK) A friend of his (presumably someone he knows to be familiar with the books) told him it was really Bran and Rickon who were killed by Theon and co. Before that he'd been figuring it was the farm orphans. He's since been told it was a lie, but his review is awkward since he's doing it on false info

ACOKHaha, it must be weird. I did something similar to my gf, as she has just recently started reading the books and seeing my reactions she is now asking me how many scenes are actually taken from the book. She first thought that the final scene was a fake but now she believes it was actually real due to my reactions. I feel kinda bad about that :(

[Lonestar]

Wonder what Jaime's screentime count will be when the season is over. Greater or less than 25 minutes ;P

[Ithil]

Wonder what Jaime's screentime count will be when the season is over. Greater or less than 25 minutes ;P

They seem to be moving his story forward, this episode's final scene with him is from near the end of CoK

[Fuzzy]

Review Roundup? Has it been posted? I always look forward to those...

Is this the one Cornballer usually links to? I don't know since I never read reviews.

http://winteriscoming.net/2012/05/re...without-honor/


EDIT: BTW I really enjoyed the episode 15 parody.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MWO_KpVYgU

[whytemyke]

I was wondering if anyone picked up on this. When Jaime Lannister says <paraphrasing> "In my own way, I have more honor than poor old Dead Ned." Sounds like the Dark Knight scene "In a way, I knew your friends better than you ever did."

I thought the same damn thing. I was like "KINGSLAYER TO PLAY JOKER IN LEAGUE OF JUSTICE MOVIES!"

[Liquidsnake]

Is anyone going to get the GOT video game ?

[brentech]

Is anyone going to get the GOT video game ?

I don't forsee them doing anything good with the license.

[Tsukumo]

"Is that a woman?"

I was laughing so hard I didn't pay attention to anything said after that line

[Memento Mori]

Is anyone going to get the GOT video game ?

Just pretend Skyrim is set in Westeros. There's probably even an Ice and Fire mod for it.

[Fuzzy]

Is anyone going to get the GOT video game ?

I'd like the art book but I know the game is going to bomb hard and Shahadan posts in the OT thread doesn't make it sound good.

When people working on a game use "unplayable and zero fun" to describe it, there is little hope.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthre...4#post37658554

[Magnus]

Just started watching it now due to a busy three day weekend. Watching the preview from last episode, it still creeps me out how much the screaming dragons sounded like scared children.

I'm glad someone else noticed that; thought it was rather deliberate, especially compared to the way they screamed as newborns at the end of the S1 finalé.

[Amir0x]

Actually I got that and I thought it was a really good change. (ADWD spoilers) It makes Xaro more dangerous so when you get to book and he threatens really when I read that I was like "Meh..." now it seems a lot more dangerous.

Well, and the other thing to consider is that it gives Dany motivation when she burns the house of the undying. From these perspectives I get it... I'm more curious as to where Xaro is going really. Is Xaro to be a character that stays everpresent now, considering his enlarged role?

[carfo]

I haven't read more than 10 pages of the first book but my OPINION as to the burned bodies at the end .... so in typical tv shows, when you never see someone killing someone else, then the death usually isn't for real. maybe game of thrones wants to depart from that and give some kind of shock value to the audience, which I wouldn't be surprised of, but I don't think that they caught the kids. he probably just murdered two kids and their family or something. they were completely burned so if he really wanted to get his point across he wouldn't have left them unidentifiable. IMO.