[chaosblade]

That's probably because the devs seemed to make Abaasy rely on his cheesy Spike and Arts to try and bump you off.

Actually, yeah. The only thing that really matches his level is his HP and maybe defense. Considering I was fighting Deinos Sauros for debuff resist before I fought him I can easily compare the two, Abaasy was easier to hit and didn't deal anymore damage apart from his special arts (Demon Purging Fire and the 15000+ damage Talent Art).

Blizzard Belgazas is likely similar since both have the maximum penalty for your party, I should try that (I'd need another spike resist though!). I actually think there's a good chance Despotic Arsene would be the toughest to kill at level 80.

[Luap]

The next few areas have mechon enemies exclusively. You can use an anti-mechon party of Melia, Shulk, and Fiora since none of them need enchant. You'll also find a ton of anti-mechon weapons, and the later ones should be the best available at that point.

Argh. Thanks for the warning. And I didn't know that anti-mechon weapons dropped, so that's a relief. Now I don't mind so much.

Fiora's Speed Armor is rubbish. It doesn't suit the character at all, I agree. But you won't have to worry about that because Unique armor sets suck. With very few exceptions, if you can't put your own gems in it, it's auto fail. The upgraded Ether Frame with slots is where it's at, you'll get that later in the game. My Fiora wears it at end game fighting super bosses and dominates, and also has her original (and I agree with you here as well, completely perfect) white armor.

Completely disagree. Haste in an armor slot is amazing since it frees up an invaluable weapon slot. That's why glory gauntlets are great too. The 5% you give up versus manually crafted ones is worth it. It also gives agility which you want to use anyway, but it gets redundant in the late sets and is probably just better off replaced with a crafted one in a slot. But there is regular speed armor that has slots and the same low weight benefit, but I don't think the stats of the best one is as good. Z is the highest, I think? That's why I use speed armor, everybody but Reyn gets light armor for the minimal weight penalty.

Yeah I definitely can't wait to get some slotted armor and not uniques. I'm still at the point where agility is king so her speed armor will have to do. But yeah, the armor with the haste gem is amazing. I had another haste gem so I was able to pump it up to 50%. Beautiful stuff.

What is Fiora's best role? I see that she can tank, although her HP is abysmal. I just have her as a physical damage-dealer right now, and it's going well.

[Javier]

Got past Prison Island and now I'm on THAT boss fight on my way to Sword Valley.

Shit got really REALLY real.

[chaosblade]

Argh. Thanks for the warning. And I didn't know that anti-mechon weapons dropped, so that's a relief. Now I don't mind so much. Yeah I definitely can't wait to get some slotted armor and not uniques. I'm still at the point where agility is king so her speed armor will have to do. But yeah, the armor with the haste gem is amazing. I had another haste gem so I was able to pump it up to 50%. Beautiful stuff. What is Fiora's best role? I see that she can tank, although her HP is abysmal. I just have her as a physical damage-dealer right now, and it's going well.

Agility is always king, but the later sets have like 2 peices of armor that have 45% agility gems. Kind of a waste.

And Fiora is kind of like Riki in that she can do a number of things. Her main role is a damage dealer, and like Dunban she is pretty self sufficient. Take advantage of speed shift, it's probably her best art. Especially once you unlock her 4th skill tree and start unlocking those skills. Then link a particular skill with Dunban and you have a super-rapid attacking self-regenerating monster that quite possibly deals the best DPS in the game. This was the setup I had not too much further in than you are (on Mechonis): http://i.minus.com/ibkLSuxFiJLU9B.jpg (yes, that was the best armor I had for Shulk since I hadn't got Alcyone for him yet, the blaze resist were for a specific UM).

[Javier]

BTW, can I safely sell all those collectibles provided I already added them to the collection and they're not needed for a sidequest? They have no purpose other than to be sold for cash after that, right?

[Croc]

BTW, can I safely sell all those collectibles provided I already added them to the collection and they're not needed for a sidequest? They have no purpose other than to be sold for cash after that, right?

You can also gift collectables to other party members to help raise affinity between them.

[PhoenixSFT]

Just got to the (20 hours in) High Entia Tomb boss fight. Those two kicked my ass, first hard boss fight in the game. Had to switch to Riki because Shulk can't do shit to the second attacker, but he's still needed for his Monado powers.

[Javier]

You can also gift collectables to other party members to help raise affinity between them.

Shoot me. I had NO IDEA you could do that.

[Croc]

Shoot me. I had NO IDEA you could do that.

Yeah I don't remember ever seeing that explained in the game. Likely the only reason I ever knew that is reading it somewhere in this thread.

[Slappy967]

Took longer then expected but I finally picked up my preorder of the game & artbook! Can't wait to dig into the game but I am curious if any kind of sales numbers have been released since the release or if we will never know if people put their money where their mouths were as it pertains to Operation Rainfall?

[chaosblade]

Took longer then expected but I finally picked up my preorder of the game & artbook! Can't wait to dig into the game but I am curious if any kind of sales numbers have been released since the release or if we will never know if people put their money where their mouths were as it pertains to Operation Rainfall?

We'll probably never know unless Nintendo decides to give numbers. And that seems unlikely.

But given the circumstances, I assume it did "well." Retailer exclusive, likely a very small print, very little marketing involved (anything other than twitter/Facebook?), and no development effort on NoA's part (just changed the region lock).

Shoot me. I had NO IDEA you could do that.

Gifts can also lower affinity. If you're giving them at random, you have a 50% chance. Different gifts will raise/lower affinity by different amounts.

Personally, I don't think gifts are worthwhile. They only give 1 to 3 hearts depending on the gift (4 for a love source, but by the time you can get those you'll probably be near max affinity anyway). Collectables make good trade fodder since they're easy to get and tend to be a lot more valuable than materials, and if you really want to raise affinity quickly you can take advantage of some enemies' spike effects that lower tension or inflict a status you can assist with (sleep, topple, daze). In my first playthrough I maxed affinity between the entire party in around an hour.

[Croc]

Gifts can also lower affinity. If you're giving them at random, you have a 50% chance. Different gifts will raise/lower affinity by different amounts. Personally, I don't think gifts are worthwhile. They only give 1 to 3 hearts depending on the gift (4 for a love source, but by the time you can get those you'll probably be near max affinity anyway). Collectables make good trade fodder since they're easy to get and tend to be a lot more valuable than materials, and if you really want to raise affinity quickly you can take advantage of some enemies' spike effects that lower tension or inflict a status you can assist with (sleep, topple, daze). In my first playthrough I maxed affinity between the entire party in around an hour.

To be fair though, there is that google doc that lists all of the gifts so you know how much affinity you'll be getting. Honestly by late game I was so over stuffed with collectables that there was 0 harm in just mass gifting them to people. Ones that are worth a fair amount are easy enough to find so the trading thing doesn't really seem like an issue.

[Luap]

Man it's so easy to blow time on this game. I just did sidequests and collected gems for the last 2 nights and I've run through 7 hours of gameplay without advancing the story at all. And it's not like I knocked out a bunch of quests in 7 hours either; some of those "talk to these people/go investigate something" quests just take a lot of time. Especially if you refuse to use guides/FAQs like me. It's really helped my affinity levels though. I must have those haste buffs from the 7th for Dunban and Shulk!

Also, are you sure that Dunban + Reyn is the best Mega Heat team for gem crafting? I've been using Shulk + Reyn and they've been doing awesome. I just got Shulk's skill that increases his fever chance.

[Croc]

I have a few questions about some end game stuff. Just gunna put it all in spoilers even though it's not really too spoilery.

What's the best place to grind for affinity? I have searched through this thread and online and can find some things telling me to take advantage of enemies that use sleep or something, but can't find any specifics.

Is there a good place or way to grind AP? I am towards the end of Prison Island and lv. 80, but I have a TON of Arts that need leveled. I think the most Arts for one person I have maxed out is only 1.

And finally, is there some kind of list that tells me where I can grind for crystals for making specific types of gems? I'm wanting to make some higher level Agility ones so I can replace the 2 Agility III's I have on Melia.

I think those are the only questions I have for now...

[Hot Coldman]

OK, I finally picked this game back up, after putting it down months ago due to uni work. Only just got Sharla in my party.

Never before has a JRPG managed to drag me back in after months away. This game went one better- I'm fucking hooked. I AM SHULK, SLAYER OF MECHON SCUM

[chaosblade]

I have a few questions about some end game stuff. Just gunna put it all in spoilers even though it's not really too spoilery. What's the best place to grind for affinity? I have searched through this thread and online and can find some things telling me to take advantage of enemies that use sleep or something, but can't find any specifics. Is there a good place or way to grind AP? I am towards the end of Prison Island and lv. 80, but I have a TON of Arts that need leveled. I think the most Arts for one person I have maxed out is only 1. And finally, is there some kind of list that tells me where I can grind for crystals for making specific types of gems? I'm wanting to make some higher level Agility ones so I can replace the 2 Agility III's I have on Melia. I think those are the only questions I have for now...

For affinity, the closest good one to your level I know of is a level 87 kromer in Eryth Sea. I think there is an ether unique at Prison Island if you go back toward the broken teleporter away from the main entrance, not 100% sure but I think it has a low tension spike and is level 75.

Not sure if there is a specifically good place for AP. Killing enemies higher level than you is the best bet. Remember to use the AP up gems you've probably collected.

For gems I don't think there is a resource for every level, but the google document has a list for the rank V gems. Agility requires Nature in Colony 6 to be level 5.

[Croc]

For affinity, the closest good one to your level I know of is a level 87 kromer in Eryth Sea. I think there is an ether unique at Prison Island if you go back toward the broken teleporter away from the main entrance, not 100% sure but I think it has a low tension spike and is level 75. Not sure if there is a specifically good place for AP. Killing enemies higher level than you is the best bet. Remember to use the AP up gems you've probably collected. For gems I don't think there is a resource for every level, but the google document has a list for the rank V gems. Agility requires Nature in Colony 6 to be level 5.

Huh somehow I managed to miss that Gem tab on there.

And I just need a couple more things to get Colony 6 to level 5 which should be fairly easy (aside from those damned Black Liver Beans).

That answers all of my questions though, thanks!

[Exeunt]

122 hours in with my party at level 80 and it seems I've finally reached the point of no return (at least according to Dunban after I defeated this giant dragon in Prison Island). It's been an incredible ride, and as far as the story's concerned—Dickson and Alvis still outstanding as well as possibly the Order of the Bionis—I guess there will still be some twists whenever I decide to cross the threshold. The last dungeon felt like it could have been straight out of Chrono Trigger, which is definitely a good thing in my books; I know I'm not at the end yet but this has been one of my favourite gaming experiences so far. Going back a bit, the battle with Lorithia became pretty broken with the seventh and when the boss made out with her "servant" right in front of Melia that was one of the most despicable moments since Metal Face taunting Shulk and I loved it for that. I said it before, but the game is best when there is a villain threatening the party on a smaller level rather than this battle of the gods stuff. I also think that Lorithia was built up for a while but was taken out pretty quickly after she "turned" and Dickson's transformation from "can't say I feel too good about deceving a bunch of kids" to some cackling maniac isn't the most convincing turn the story has taken. I know his frustration built up near the end, but it still feels a little over-the-top for a betrayal that should be more intimate.

As far as the actual Lorithia battle was concerned, the acid pools were a bit of a pain with the AI at times and I'd imagine that it becomes a lot harder if you don't use Shulk and Fiora. Overall the last two dungeons have been more challenging than most of the game, and there are still some unique monsters there I need to finish off. The fight I mentioned felt like the biggest one over the last two areas and I guess it's all about unique monsters and swarms of high-leveled foes from here on out—until I decide to confront the final boss(es?) that is.

Actually, I still have a lot of stuff to do even though it seems like I'll hit the end of the story. I still have some ten or so quests outstanding and only Dunban has all five Skill Branches unlocked so far—not to mention all the monsters on the field I've seen in the nineties and hundreds?!? So it looks like I still have stuff to keep me busy—about twenty levels of content before the game is completely over. I don't want to force the end of the game just yet so it looks like I'll probably be exploring (I still have areas to find in Eryth Sea and Tephra Cave at minimum) and completing more quests.

[chaosblade]

122 hours in with my party at level 80 and it seems I've finally reached the point of no return (at least according to Dunban after I defeated this giant dragon in Prison Island). It's been an incredible ride, and as far as the story's concerned—Dickson and Alvis still outstanding as well as possibly the Order of the Bionis—I guess there will still be some twists whenever I decide to cross the threshold. The last dungeon felt like it could have been straight out of Chrono Trigger, which is definitely a good thing in my books; I know I'm not at the end yet but this has been one of my favourite gaming experiences so far. Going back a bit, the battle with Lorithia became pretty broken with the seventh and when the boss made out with her "servant" right in front of Melia that was one of the most despicable moments since Metal Face taunting Shulk and I loved it for that. I said it before, but the game is best when there is a villain threatening the party on a smaller level rather than this battle of the gods stuff. I also think that Lorithia was built up for a while but was taken out pretty quickly after she "turned" and Dickson's transformation from "can't say I feel too good about deceving a bunch of kids" to some cackling maniac isn't the most convincing turn the story has taken. I know his frustration built up near the end, but it still feels a little over-the-top for a betrayal that should be more intimate. As far as the actual Lorithia battle was concerned, the acid pools were a bit of a pain with the AI at times and I'd imagine that it becomes a lot harder if you don't use Shulk and Fiora. Overall the last two dungeons have been more challenging than most of the game, and there are still some unique monsters there I need to finish off. The fight I mentioned felt like the biggest one over the last two areas and I guess it's all about unique monsters and swarms of high-leveled foes from here on out—until I decide to confront the final boss(es?) that is. Actually, I still have a lot of stuff to do even though it seems like I'll hit the end of the story. I still have some ten or so quests outstanding and only Dunban has all five Skill Branches unlocked so far—not to mention all the monsters on the field I've seen in the nineties and hundreds?!? So it looks like I still have stuff to keep me busy—about twenty levels of content before the game is completely over. I don't want to force the end of the game just yet so it looks like I'll probably be exploring (I still have areas to find in Eryth Sea and Tephra Cave at minimum) and completing more quests.

I would suggest beating the game now. It will probably already be kind of easy at your level but that's better than the last leg being boring when enemies can't even hit you. Just don't save or start NG+ when it prompts you. It will take you back to the main menu and you can resume your save from the point of no return.

[Exeunt]

I would suggest beating the game now. It will probably already be kind of easy at your level but that's better than the last leg being boring when enemies can't even hit you. Just don't save or start NG+ when it prompts you. It will take you back to the main menu and you can resume your save from the point of no return.

I can see how that makes sense. Thanks for the tip; I suppose when I play tonight I will do the last stretch of the story rather than the high-level stuff.

[chaosblade]

I decided to try something a little different today, just kind of a test to see how broken 7th is. Soloed some unique enemies around the same level without toppling or dazing. Other two party members were Sharla and Melia since their talent gauges do nothing by themselves, I took off all their arts except one that would be useless (Drive Boost and Reflection), then just had them follow me around and not attack.

Since the character is level 80, I went out to Bionis Leg and found Territorial Rotbart(81), and proceeded to solo him. And it went about as you'd expect - he even never hit me.

So I went for something a bit tougher. Indomitable Daulton, the level 85 gogol toward the end of Satorl Marsh, as well as his buddies that hang around the ruins with him. They were actually able to hit me (or at least the unique was), but still he only managed to get me to low HP once throughout the relatively long fight. It was kind of annoying since I'd get stuck in dodge animation loops and have to try to move away from the enemies to get out of it.

Unfortunately there's no level 86 unique enemy, and Stormy Belagon at 87 is too tough. I guess at least for now 5 level is pretty much the limit for that.


Also killed five more Deinos Sauros to get one more double attack V crystal. So now I have maxed double attack gems!

I'm contemplating turning exp back on (blasphemy!) so I can unlock and do some stuff that I'm currently level limited on like the rest of the skill trees. Then see if I can do NG+ but revert my level back to 1, and see how far I can get without leveling up, just using gems, skill links, and end-game weapons+armor.

[Luap]

Wow chaos, I didn't know the 7th was that good. Is that character a natural tank? Because I've run in to a bit of a problem (spoiler tagging so I can talk freely):

Ever since I added Fiora to my team, Dunban has stopped using some of his tanking arts. It's like he recognizes Fiora as the main tank now. Fiora draws aggro like crazy so maybe the AI thinks she's the better tank? Dunban just uses his attack arts and ignores his auras. His auras! Those are the best things about him!* I tried controlling Dunban and even though it was difficult I managed to keep aggro on him. So I know it's possible, but the AI just gave up on me.

I've noticed this before when using Dunban, Sharla and Reyn. Sharla automatically threw her shield art on Reyn at the beginning of every battle, as if she recognized him as the main tank over Dunban. Is there a way to get the AI to prefer one tank over another? I'd really prefer Dunban to be the tank instead of Fiora.

*Bonus question: How many auras can you use at once? (i.e., can I pop Peerless and Serene Heart at the same time?)

[Croc]

I must be doing something wrong with 7th, cause they don't seem nearly as good as everyone makes them out to be. I was mainly using a party of Melia (main), Shulk, and Dunban for awhile. Switched Dunban out for 7th and I was significantly weaker. 7th was constantly dying (even pumped up with agility gems) and I couldn't beat some uniques that I was able to before.

Tips?

[chaosblade]

Wow chaos, I didn't know the 7th was that good. Is that character a natural tank? Because I've run in to a bit of a problem (spoiler tagging so I can talk freely): Ever since I added Fiora to my team, Dunban has stopped using some of his tanking arts. It's like he recognizes Fiora as the main tank now. Fiora draws aggro like crazy so maybe the AI thinks she's the better tank? Dunban just uses his attack arts and ignores his auras. His auras! Those are the best things about him!* I tried controlling Dunban and even though it was difficult I managed to keep aggro on him. So I know it's possible, but the AI just gave up on me. I've noticed this before when using Dunban, Sharla and Reyn. Sharla automatically threw her shield art on Reyn at the beginning of every battle, as if she recognized him as the main tank over Dunban. Is there a way to get the AI to prefer one tank over another? I'd really prefer Dunban to be the tank instead of Fiora. *Bonus question: How many auras can you use at once? (i.e., can I pop Peerless and Serene Heart at the same time?)

One aura at a time. I hadn't tested this until today when I was using 7th (had 3 auras - Speed Shift being the primary one, but also used Healing Energy when that wasn't active and HP was low, and Guard Shift which I used once to weaken damage shown in a vision.) Using any other aura while one was active replaced the other buff.

Regarding tanking and what I do with that character, I find that she can tank fine against enemies in my level range, but struggles some against higher level ones (Dunban does fine against practically anything remotely possible even at level 79, pretty much any normal enemy in the game and uniques up to around 10 levels higher than him).

I pretty much do the same thing with her that I do with Dunban - light armor (Speed) and agility until they're drowning in it. I think the AI might act differently with Fiora in the party depending on what type of armor she's wearing. That could call for some experimentation.

One reason she works well though is the fact she regenerates so fast with my setup. Wolverine doesn't have anything on this. Not to say she doesn't dodge, she just doesn't do it as well as Dunban and this tends to cover for that.

Something I've done makes her heal ~100-200HP on basically every hit (arts or auto-attack), and it's something I've set up on each character. I'm not entirely sure what it is, since in theory it should only be criticals/double attacks healing with Dunban's skill link, but whatever. Maybe it's a Dolphin bug? Should try this on the real Wii.

Anyway, with good double attack gems (now maxed), maxed haste gems, battle start haste, burst affinity haste (especially on each character for a triple effect on the whole party) and of course, Speed Shift, she attacks pretty much as fast as the animation will let her. And with every attack (or nearly every attack) healing, it seems like it's around 200-300HP per second. Far better than you'll get with gems or auras.

Kind of makes Healing Energy pointless unless Speed Shift runs out. I haven't changed my setup much since fighting Abaasy, so you can refer to that or I can post the slight changes I've made. Probably won't get to it until tomorrow though.

Now, about different tanks and priority, I'd guess there's a lot of pre-programmed stuff relating to how the AI should act and react to situations. That includes having a sort of "tank order" as well as tanks respecting one another's ability (or possibly lack thereof) to tank even if you don't want them to.

I'd have to test, but I have noticed that Dunban won't use Blinding Blossom on 7th. I do think he'll still use it on Shulk if Shadow Eye isn't used though, and would probably also do it for Melia and Sharla (no idea on Riki). I say that because I'm almost positive I've heard him use it in battle with that party setup, but he also never takes aggro from 7th. 7th also tends to not take aggro from Dunban, it's always one or the other, enemies very rarely switch between them.

[Luap]

Interesting stuff. Sounds like I have some experiments to run tonight. :P

If I can't get Dunban's AI to tank properly I have 3 routes I'm thinking of taking:
1 - Control him myself
2 - Use your recommended party of Melia, Shulk and 7th
3 - Use Shulk (I like controlling him), 7th and Riki*

* I don't even really like Riki, but for some reason I always do really well when he's on my team. His chill and bleed DoTs, his heal, his AoE sleep art and his topple art are all fucking awesome and the AI actually uses them well. Plus he has a crapload of HP so I generally don't have to worry about him.

And thanks for the aura info. Man, I've been completely doing it wrong!

[Starwolf_UK]

That was a fun fight against level 75 boss at level 68+/69+..well you'll see. Used the classic party of (party and other info)Sharla, Melia, Riki levels 68/68/69 (controlling Riki). Halfway through Riki found experience. Funny seeing the name go from Red to Yellow as I was high 68/68/69 which pushed me into 69/69/70. It was a tad slow though with arts seal blocking my main source of damage. Also, someone needs to tell Sharla that using Covert Stance is enough, she doesn't need to hide in the ether pool as well.

I saved to a different slot and reloaded the save and used a different party of (Shulk, Dunban, 7th) with night vision V (might be a precaution, did not check to see if I could hit without...) and got slaughtered..twice. I think some of it was bad tactics but the level disadvantage mixed with the bosses physical protect makes the damage too low to work. Plus the elementals are a total pain with no way to viably take them out (but maybe thats the issue there since taking them out will help things). I'll give it a few more goes tomorrow or whenever I have time then move on with the game.

[Luap]

Fuck, I'm pretty sure I just accidentally happened upon a major spoiler. -_- I was looking up some songs from the OST on YouTube and saw one titled Bionis' Awakening. Gahhhh!!!

[SecretMoblin]

Fuck, I'm pretty sure I just accidentally happened upon a major spoiler. -_- I was looking up some songs from the OST on YouTube and saw one titled Bionis' Awakening. Gahhhh!!!

You'll be fine. Considering all that happens, you didn't really ruin much of anything.

[AniHawk]

I must be doing something wrong with 7th, cause they don't seem nearly as good as everyone makes them out to be. I was mainly using a party of Melia (main), Shulk, and Dunban for awhile. Switched Dunban out for 7th and I was significantly weaker. 7th was constantly dying (even pumped up with agility gems) and I couldn't beat some uniques that I was able to before. Tips?

give 7th double attack gems and haste if possible. then make sure agility is up too.

as far as skills go, have them work with dunban and link his skill that makes crits heal. then unlock 7th's skill that makes every double attack an automatic crit.

that's the basics as far as getting 7th towards getting good. make sure you update the haste art and topple-related stuff too.

i'm into really late endgame stuff and i'm not playing with 7th because i've used them from hours 60-100, and they're maxed on the affinity chart with everyone but reyn.

[AlphaDragoon]

I don't even use the 7th party member anymore, honestly. Once you figure out how the game works (Agility > everything, Double Attack and Haste are your friends, DoTs are OP, lol Topple locks, etc.) everyone in the game kinda hits "broken" status and you can use who you like. Except Sharla. Poor Sharla. My team is Shulk/Melia/Dunban, for most situations.

Shulk does retarded damage with the maxed Back Attack Plus skill (buffs ANY attack done from behind, including autoattacks) and can Back Slash things for like 70,000 HP every time it's up, not to mention he gets his Talent Art so fast that he can spam Monado Busters, which do the same damage as Back Slash with that Back Attack Plus on. Plus all of his utility features through Monado Arts and the ability to instantly use them when a vision comes up.

Melia's a nuclear missile with wings, I shredded Belgazas with her and have little doubt she'd do the same to Abaasy. Not to mention that she has DoTs, can Topple lock (I don't use Topple locks for anything in the game but she can) doesn't have to worry about Spikes (unless it's AI Melia who will run into range of them), and never misses an enemy because she uses Ether attacks. She also has built-in Spike Defense.

Dunban's Haste aura pretty much smacks up 7th's (WAY shorter cooldown for the same 95% Haste when maxed), he dodges more stuff, has aggro drawing moves, innate Spike Defense, a huge DPS Talent Art and does just as much damage as 7th in most situations.

For me, 7th party member is kind of like Dunban No. 2 but with more variety in terms of utility, except the original is cooler because well, he's Dunban.

[ivysaur12]

So for all of you that had to hear about the EU version, how does it live up to expectations?

[Exeunt]

Ending and final boss spoilers to follow.

So for all of you that had to hear about the EU version, how does it live up to expectations?

Funny you should ask.

I took chaosblade's advice and went on to defeat the final boss tonight with my party at level 81 when the last boss went down. The endgame was pretty great but things got kind of insane after they left Prison Island. The spectacle of the final battles was great (even if Zanza's final "transformations" didn't seem that different from each other) and plot points sort of came out of nowhere. I liked the more human concerns much more than the god plot, but the end of the game seemed to promise just that if we ever revisit these characters. Maybe I'm just being hopeful but the ending reminded me of Super Mario Galaxy's ending with a new world for the characters to explore—as far as I can tell, there were elements of this new land quite unlike what was there before, and presumably the Bionis no longer exists. I hope we get the Super Mario Galaxy 2 equivalent sometime in the future.

While I should probably beat the rest of the content and actually take some time to reflect before casting my final judgement on the title, I have to say that I absolutely loved Xenoblade Chronicles and if MonolothSoft makes another game like this I'll be there day one (of the localization). The voice actors for the vast majority of the characters (and I'd argue the entirety of the main cast) brought a lot of life to their characters and I can't say their rapport in battle ever got stale—if anything it brought a lot to the experience. I really liked them all and appreciated that there was an attempt to give them all some sort of development even if it was a little unevenly distributed; as a result, I think my favourite outside of Shulk would have to be --Melia-- and I think that character went through the most and was most intriguing by the end. But like I said, I thought they were all very charming. I think it may have been a blessing in disguise to use one localization; not only is it great quality, but if there are future releases with these characters, there is one cast that can be turned to for all English-speaking regions. The dialogue was pretty consistent throughout even if there were a couple oddly read or awkwardly written lines and they really hit you over the head with the "seize your own destiny" and "let's see what the future holds" stuff. I thought the story had parts that were really solid and compelled me to push forward, and also weaker parts like Makna Forest and the more random bits of the ending. That said, the game really holds out on rather obvious twists for far too long and I felt like there were too many explicitly stated "you must discover this for yourself" moments intended to be "mysterious" or to extend the plot that seemed rather poorly executed.

I hard this game was amazing and overall it did not disappoint. The locations are huge and have lots of room to explore—perhaps some have a little too much empty space like Alcamoth and movement speed sometimes felt a little slow for me. This was particularly egregious when I had to swim places, with no combat to break up the travel; that said, quick travel worked pretty well most of the time. I have a bit of gaming OCD, but somehow I never felt overwhelmed by the game's sheer amount of content; it makes it pretty clear that you can ignore whatever you feel like and take your time completing quests and whatnot, with the points of no return being pretty generous. The quests are at their best when they encourage the exploration of the world and introduce you to challenging new enemies, and their worst when they're redundant monster-killing quests or when they spawn items in locations you've visited dozens of times before just because it's now time to collect them.

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts right after beating the story and I might make another post after I've completed everything. There are some things I wasn't madly in love with and I think I've addressed them over my posts, but they weren't nearly enough to sour me on the game. I'm really glad it was brought to all regions and I hope that anyone who's on the fence will give it a shot. It's probably not for everyone but for me at least, the positive experiences far outweighed the negatives.

[AniHawk]

welp. 120 hours in and i've seen and done pretty much all this game has to offer aside from the crazy optional bosses. planning on killing one last thing, meaning i have to get to level 94-95 first (level 92-93 now).

not fatigued with the game, but now that i've explored all of the nooks and crannies there are, i think it's time to bring this to an end.

[chaosblade]

Melia's a nuclear missile with wings, I shredded Belgazas with her and have little doubt she'd do the same to Abaasy. Not to mention that she has DoTs, can Topple lock (I don't use Topple locks for anything in the game but she can) doesn't have to worry about Spikes (unless it's AI Melia who will run into range of them), and never misses an enemy because she uses Ether attacks. She also has built-in Spike Defense.

Sort of. On my phone so I can't really get into too many of the details. Ether attacks miss ("resist") but the formula is completely different. They are way more accurate though and the penalty when fighting higher level enemies is a lot more gradual. The max penalty is a -110 adjustment to accuracy at 20 or 21 levels over. Compare that to physical attacks, 11 levels over hits the max agility penalty with a -200 adjustment.

Spikes also work on ether attacks IIRC, unless you mean area spikes.

Dunban's Haste aura pretty much smacks up 7th's(WAY shorter cooldown for the same 95% Haste when maxed), he dodges more stuff, has aggro drawing moves, innate Spike Defense, a huge DPS Talent Art and does just as much damage as 7th in most situations.

Well, Spirit Breath only lasts half as long and the secondary effect isn't as useful. In the end debuff removal/resist is actually useless with VI gems. 7th gets improved double attack, which is obviously awesome. So it makes sense it would be longer.

[AlphaDragoon]

Sort of. On my phone so I can't really get into too many of the details. Ether attacks miss ("resist") but the formula is completely different. They are way more accurate though and the penalty when fighting higher level enemies is a lot more gradual. The max penalty is a -110 adjustment to accuracy at 20 or 21 levels over. Compare that to physical attacks, 11 levels over hits the max agility penalty with a -200 adjustment. Spikes also work on ether attacks IIRC, unless you mean area spikes.

Yeah, I know Ether attacks can be resisted but it happens so little compared to missing with a physical character that she hardly ever misses. Still, I should have said "hardly ever misses".

As an example on spikes, say I'm fighting a Gloria Slobos. Does damage every time you hit it. Melia can stand at max range, nuke the thing into orbit, and not bat an eye. Same for Magnificent Digalus, who has a Topple spike. Max range, GG. As long as you're far enough away when releasing spells with her she has nothing to fear.

Speaking of Melia, I optimized her damage output some more today, changing out the Electric Plus VI (100% increase) for a Back Attack Plus VI (again, 100% increase) and gave her 7th's skill Explosion of Energy for Tension every time she does an Elemental Release...dear God. I thought she was OP before I did that...I was wrong. Max tension in like 2 moves, Element Bursts that last longer than most enemies even live (meaning she has it almost immediately up for the next fight), Burst End with back attacked DoTs and Summon Bolts, the DPS output is ridiculous.

[chaosblade]

Went for Blizzard Belgazas, figured one of two things would happen:

1) He would be easier than Abaasy (most likely)
2) He would be impossibly hard (less likely)

I remembered from my first playthrough that he didn't have any sort of topple resist like Abaasy has (50% topple time reduction on him) and I didn't want to win in a topple lock. So to hell with it, no toppling.

Turns out my choice to not topple him at all made no difference. Breezed through the fight with no problem at all. No video this time (need to figure out how I can record without framerate issues) but I got a screenshot of the dead beast and my gold chest under him (with which I got the Steel Strike advanced book and Glory Gauntlets!)

Spoilers up to Fallen Arm.
http://i.minus.com/ijKXSOMvT2nTm.jpg

I don't think I'll be able to beat Despotic Arsene. Ironically enough I think he might be too low level since he's getting to the point where the level penalties start to catch up. And Ancient Daedala would probably be the hardest of the four 100+ enemies despite being the lowest level.

[Starwolf_UK]

Hmm, Despotic Arsene you probably noticed this level 76 defeat (using Melia, Sharla, 7th no topple from what I watched). The damage taken makes it look like rough going.

[Snegurochka]

my wii died and i'm seriously tempted to pick up a second hand one to play this. i know with the wii u on the horizon it would be silly but damn, i've had my copy sitting here on my desk for three months now.

[chaosblade]

Hmm, Despotic Arsene you probably noticed this level 76 defeat (using Melia, Sharla, 7th no topple from what I watched). The damage taken makes it look like rough going.

As long as I can hit him I should be good, probably even without toppling. That's primarily what I'm concerned about. It's only 1 level off the max agility penalty, but I actually struggled with it on my first playthrough even at 99 for some reason. I guess we'll see, I might try tomorrow.

I'm still not letting myself use Sharla (at least for real, I did have her in my party standing around doing nothing while doing those 7th solos) so I'd stick with Monado arts to reduce damage where possible. Sharla/DoT damage is just broken and makes this stuff easy (though he sure didn't make it look easy in that video).

I'd guess the "best" party, no limitations or anything, would probably be Riki (main), Shulk, Sharla. If you do everything accordingly, you should theoretically be able to beat anything in the game in the low 70s (just need to unlock Shulk's last skill tree, can probably be done around level 66(?), then get enough SP to max it).

Just a theory, but have Riki tank with his huge HP and use his DoT attacks to primarily wear down the enemy, warn Shulk and use Monado arts to deflect damage when possible, and Sharla sits around to heal. Everything dies. Slowly, but surely.

[flyover]

Ending and final boss spoilers to follow. Funny you should ask... [...long review...]

Great review, all around. Nice writeup.

[jwj442]

This game makes me excited to see what Monolith could do with another Baten Kaitos. The first was a game with some good ideas, nice environments, and a lot of flaws. The second really was a great game, fixed almost all the first one's problems and a lot of fun to play (best RPG on the Gamecube except maybe Paper Mario, though I know that's not saying much). It certainly seems like Monolith is improving over time and a third BK could be really special.

[Javier]

Well, just got to the part where the 7th Character joins and the whole gang is complete.

Melia going from "I'm gonna kill you, bitch" to "I'm so happy for you" in less than a second is the funniest scene in the game so far.

[Exeunt]

Great review, all around. Nice writeup.

Thanks! I'll definitely have more thoughts in order later on once I've put the game down.

Well, just got to the part where the 7th Character joins and the whole gang is complete. Melia going from "I'm gonna kill you, bitch" to "I'm so happy for you" in less than a second is the funniest scene in the game so far.

I actually thought that Riki goofing off in the background when Fiora and Dunban are reunited was pretty great but I thought Melia's bit was pretty much her conceding Shulk's affection to Fiora and putting on her "proper" face. Sad but sincere as it were. That said, I do recall there being some unintentionally funny moments in the game... And I love how Riki always dances around during most non-dramatic cutscenes when he's not needed.

[OMG Aero]

I actually thought that Riki goofing off in the background when Fiora and Dunban are reunited was pretty great but I thought Melia's bit was pretty much her conceding Shulk's affection to Fiora and putting on her "proper" face. Sad but sincere as it were. That said, I do recall there being some unintentionally funny moments in the game... And I love how Riki always dances around during most non-dramatic cutscenes when he's not needed.

Riki's dance animation is the best and I always love when he is in a cutscene with Dunban like when they are split up on the beach, they are the greatest duo.

[InfiniDragon]

Well, Spirit Breath only lasts half as long and the secondary effect isn't as useful. In the end debuff removal/resist is actually useless with VI gems. 7th gets improved double attack, which is obviously awesome. So it makes sense it would be longer.

Honestly, I'd still have Spirit Breath over Speed Shift. The 50% Double Attack from the perfect VI gem already seems more like a 75% in the fact that when you AA you tend to get far more Double Attacks than you do singles even though in theory it should be every 1 in 2 attacks (at least I do, I've actually sat there and AA'd the whole fight to check), so for me the cooldown becomes the deciding factor between the two skills. In Dunban's case due to the Aura extension skills by the time the first Spirit Breath wears off it only takes about 2-3 seconds for another Spirit Breath to be ready to go again when maxed or close to maxed, so his is pretty much constant unless you have to cancel it early for another Aura like Jaws of Death or Serene Heart.

Not to mention Spirit Breath doesn't have any defense penalties unlike Speed Shift which at times can be bad, since in most cases you will eventually pull aggro if you're using the Haste + AA spam with 7th, and 7th's maxed Agility isn't enough to dodge all hits at all times from UMs or certain high levels and unlike Dunban, 7th doesn't have a bailout in those cases where the heals from the critical Double Attacks aren't enough (Dunban can of course cancel the Spirit Breath for Serene Heart if he's somehow taking hits). And if you do cancel it early with Healing Energy to get the aggro off or recover HP, you have to wait for that really long cooldown.

That's my two cents on why I prefer it anyway.

[chaosblade]

Well, I beat Despotic Arsene. No picture or anything, but damn that was a disaster of a fight. That video Starwolf_UK linked was less problematic, and it had people going down left and right.

It's mostly because I did something completely idiotic and ended up entirely losing aggro with Arsene, and so he ended up running off and getting all his HP back when he was at like 20% left. The other bunnits in the area kept attacking and I ended up getting back into a fight with him, so his HP was totally restored and I hadn't restored anything since I was still in battle. Also didn't help that Dunban was KOed the entire time this was going on and I had no party gauge to revive him.

And that led to another big problem since I essentially ended up fighting him twice in a row, and didn't even start at 19:00: Night ended. Have to rely on Night Vision a good bit in order to hit these high level enemies to make up for the levels I don't have (still 79).

Hitting him was very inconsistant, especially during the day, but not as bad as I'd originally feared. Dunban did pretty good, only missing a handful of attacks and arts. Shulk and 7th fared worse, but I still managed to hit him a fair bit. Shulk only dropped into low tension once I think, and 7th a few times.

Didn't rely on toppling at all. He did get toppled a few times since Shulk could easily inflict Break due to the enemy being really small, so Dunban followed up with Steel Strike a few times. Arsene has a big topple time resist though (75%?) so it's not like it made a difference anyway, he gets straight back up almost instantly (he's immune to daze, but his default topple time is about half the length of the Shaker Edge animation).

Speaking of small enemies, that's another thing that makes him tough. With bigger enemies your party tends to stand far apart from each other, and it's easy to see aggro switching between characters. Against a tiny enemy when everyone is huddled together, not so much, so Shulk got taken out a few times after picking up Aggro with a big Back Slash.

That just leaves Ancient Daedala. I seriously don't think it's possible at my level, but I guess it won't hurt to set up for it and try. And arguably Final Marcus, but at level 100 there's no way he won't be balanced for fights with 90s parties, so the agility penalty would probably make the fight totally impossible with a topple lock via Demon Slayer.

Honestly, I'd still have Spirit Breath over Speed Shift. The 50% Double Attack from the perfect VI gem already seems more like a 75% in the fact that when you AA you tend to get far more Double Attacks than you do singles even though in theory it should be every 1 in 2 attacks (at least I do, I've actually sat there and AA'd the whole fight to check), so for me the cooldown becomes the deciding factor between the two skills. In Dunban's case due to the Aura extension skills by the time the first Spirit Breath wears off it only takes about 2-3 seconds for another Spirit Breath to be ready to go again when maxed or close to maxed, so his is pretty much constant unless you have to cancel it early for another Aura like Jaws of Death or Serene Heart. Not to mention Spirit Breath doesn't have any defense penalties unlike Speed Shift which at times can be bad, since in most cases you will eventually pull aggro if you're using the Haste + AA spam with 7th, and 7th's maxed Agility isn't enough to dodge all hits at all times from UMs or certain high levels and unlike Dunban, 7th doesn't have a bailout in those cases where the heals from the critical Double Attacks aren't enough (Dunban can of course cancel the Spirit Breath for Serene Heart if he's somehow taking hits). And if you do cancel it early with Healing Energy to get the aggro off or recover HP, you have to wait for that really long cooldown. That's my two cents on why I prefer it anyway.

I usually don't have a problem with 7th picking up aggro off Dunban, and aside from monsters way over my level that character tanks well enough and dodges a most attacks anyway. I don't really choose between them, I use both. I'd probably go with Dunban if I was only using one, but it's pretty situational.

And double attack, well, I'll take as much as I can get!



Edit: Ancient Daedala down. Wheeew. That was rough too, took quite a few tries. Generally, I lost that fight in a slaughter, especially when the crazed aura went up. A few seemed kind of cheap - Dunban went down, then the enemy used that AoE topple attack that took out Shulk and toppled 7th with no vision tag, then finished off 7th in one hit. Lameness.

In the winning battle, I only toppled him once, pretty much to save myself. Needed to get enchant up for Dunban so he could get aggro back, but Shulk probably would have gone down or I'd have gotten a vision I'd need to deal with before I'd have been able to fill the gauge.

Still, I feel like I had to use some rather cheap tactics. Used the enemies to the north to build my talent gauge before the fight and started it at a distance, used enchant, then when I got the vision tag for his laser I was able to use armor instantly. Allowed me to cover both necessary Monado arts with no problem. Cheap, but effective. (Edit, Contains Spoilers: And speaking of which, I never cleaned up the chests, so this mess remains)

Also relied pretty heavily on chain attacks, more so than probably any of the other 3 fights except maybe Abaasy. Also made heavy use of Monado arts to negate damage, but since most of his arts were 1HKOs, I didn't really have much choice. Plus his standard attacks were very accurate (especially compared to the others) and did a good chunk of damage (2300ish). Dunban did okay, but still went down regularly, and that sucks against this particular enemy since it's Mechon, and I had no weapon to compensate for that. Fortunately, I was able to hit much better than expected and was able to keep enchant up most of the time, and still throw in some Monado armor here and there.

But yeah, after several tries I managed to get it all right and come out victorious. Didn't think I would on that last attempt since I was a tad late in purging to prevent his crazed aura, but purge hit successfully and I was able to finish it out from there.


Edit2:

Since I had the four big ones down, I went after Final Marcus too, with no topple. Auto-attacks missed a whole lot unless I got high/very high tension and even then they were unreliable, everybody struggled to dodge enemy attacks (even Dunban). But somehow after a few attempts I pulled it off. I'll admit it was probably pure luck thanks to a combination of Unbeatable VI kicking in at the perfect moment, and the enemy heavily using arts I could avoid with Monado arts toward the very end of the battle. It was his normal attacks that were really brutal, since they could easily take out a party member in three shots without armor up, and he can double attack.

But that covers all five 100+ enemies. Blizzard Belgazas takes the crown for the easiest one at least with my level/setup. Hardest... probably Despotic Arsene, but given how bad I screwed up that fight I made it a lot harder on myself.

Abaasy is the only one I really used topple on, apart from that one topple on Ancient Daedala and a few unintentional but meaningless ones on Despotic Arsene. Thinking about trying a no topple (or at least bare minimal topple) attempt on him before I turn exp back on, but I doubt it's possible since those frequent but brief reprieves really help cover the damage he deals.

[SecretMoblin]

Congrats, chaosblade!

I'm really fascinated by the breakdown of all the game's mechanics and exploits. It shows how deep (and how shallow, frankly) a lot of the basic rules of the game are.

[Exeunt]

"Post-game" spoilers again.

I ran into a surprise quest last night near the entrance of Colony 6 involving Tyrea. I'm really glad that it finally wrapped up the subplot introduced in Alcamoth, and I thought the voice acting really added a sense of urgency to the quest even though it wasn't timed. I kind of wish more quests were like that instead of the less consequential ones; in fact, I wish there were more surprise quests in general. I remember the one on the Bionis' Leg in which you save the girl from the Volf pack had me looking forward to what other secret missions I would find while exploring the map, but sadly there weren't very many. I do understand that a lot of voiced quests would raise the budget however, so I can see why they weren't included.

I am now two Hill Fireflies away from completing the reconstruction of Colony 6, but I still have a couple people on the affinity chart that I need to move in. It's been cool to finally fight some of the monsters that had red names some hundred or so hours ago, particularly Territorial Rotbart who was pretty nerve-wracking the first time I almost ran into it. I've received some more Art Books—most of which are fairly mediocre—but I suppose the rare ones have a better chance of being dropped by high-level monsters. I'm at level 82 right now so I think I might head to Alcamoth and see what I can clean out there seeing as how I have some quests that need me to kill off some Telethia.

[Starwolf_UK]

Advanced arts are a matter of gold chest enemies and uniques (as these always are Gold Chest) from Fallen Arm (also uniques in Valak and high level stuff in earlier areas) and persistence. Also looking up what they contain so you don't spend hours on an art that isn't there (Summon Wind was the only one I spent quite a bit on). I don't think it works as stronger enemies have better ones, they might have better drop rates though. It basically seems like everything above level so and so has 4.

For the record, I did not bother grinding enemies for gold chest drops, I just made (almost) the most of the gold chests thrown at me.

Nothing as impressive as taking out level 100+ uniques but at level 74 I decided to give the final bosses a try (I guess its impressive for me considering last time I did it at level 97 :( ). How it went.

Using Shulk, Dunban, 7th (Shulk has all skill trees complete...you can guess where this is going...)

Disciple D. Easy. Nearly got to topple lock as well.
Z. 1. Not too bad. Kind of relied on the summons for tension building though.
Z. 2. Tried twice with that party. Both times barely made it to world reconstruction or whatever the attack is called (which brings more summons and hopefully tension), too much blocking was happening ruining double attacks. Third attempt was cheap DoT with Riki, Shulk and Sharla (at this point levels are 76/75/74). Props go to Shulk AI using Monado speed in places (I was lazy and armored any visions). Emulator crashed (it did the hardware crash buzzing and screeching rather than how it normally crashes) when Z. 2 was 60% health and I didn't make any savestates so we will try again another day.
I wonder if I could have switched parties back had I made it to Z3.

[chaosblade]

Advanced arts are a matter of gold chest enemies and uniques (as these always are Gold Chest) from Fallen Arm (also uniques in Valak and high level stuff in earlier areas) and persistence. Also looking up what they contain so you don't spend hours on an art that isn't there (Summon Wind was the only one I spent quite a bit on). I don't think it works as stronger enemies have better ones, they might have better drop rates though. It basically seems like everything above level so and so has 4. For the record, I did not bother grinding enemies for gold chest drops, I just made (almost) the most of the gold chests thrown at me. Nothing as impressive as taking out level 100+ uniques but at level 74 I decided to give the final bosses a try (I guess its impressive for me considering last time I did it at level 97 :( ). How it went. Using Shulk, Dunban, 7th (Shulk has all skill trees complete...you can guess where this is going...) Disciple D. Easy. Nearly got to topple lock as well. Z. 1. Not too bad. Kind of relied on the summons for tension building though. Z. 2. Tried twice with that party. Both times barely made it to world reconstruction or whatever the attack is called (which brings more summons and hopefully tension), too much blocking was happening ruining double attacks. Third attempt was cheap DoT with Riki, Shulk and Sharla (at this point levels are 76/75/74). Props go to Shulk AI using Monado speed in places (I was lazy and armored any visions). Emulator crashed (it did the hardware crash buzzing and screeching rather than how it normally crashes) when Z. 2 was 60% health and I didn't make any savestates so we will try again another day. I wonder if I could have switched parties back had I made it to Z3.

79, not 74, but given how most of it went down that probably would have been doable too, the last couple at least would have been even more difficult though. I beat the final boss at 77 and found it extremely easy with that party you mentioned initially. Had no trouble hitting him, so just hitting the QTEs to get visions was really all it took to take him down. Wish I had gone in a level or two lower since it was just so one-sided.



Wonder if I can set up a negative exp multiplier just right and reset myself to level 1, then I'll do that no-level-up NG+ thing I mentioned. It would be pretty fun running around Colony 9 and even Bionis Leg at level 1 killing everything thanks to awesome gems, weapons, armor, and skills. But it would probably also take my arts away so that would add an interesting dimension to it (wonder if I'd have to level them up again? Hmm.)

First I need to see if I can keep taking out uniques. Will probably just keep going from the top down and see what I can and can't beat. I imagine the biggest challenge would be the two enemies from the Battling Brutes quest.

"Post-game" spoilers again. I ran into a surprise quest last night near the entrance of Colony 6 involving Tyrea. I'm really glad that it finally wrapped up the subplot introduced in Alcamoth, and I thought the voice acting really added a sense of urgency to the quest even though it wasn't timed. I kind of wish more quests were like that instead of the less consequential ones; in fact, I wish there were more surprise quests in general. I remember the one on the Bionis' Leg in which you save the girl from the Volf pack had me looking forward to what other secret missions I would find while exploring the map, but sadly there weren't very many. I do understand that a lot of voiced quests would raise the budget however, so I can see why they weren't included. I am now two Hill Fireflies away from completing the reconstruction of Colony 6, but I still have a couple people on the affinity chart that I need to move in. It's been cool to finally fight some of the monsters that had red names some hundred or so hours ago, particularly Territorial Rotbart who was pretty nerve-wracking the first time I almost ran into it. I've received some more Art Books—most of which are fairly mediocre—but I suppose the rare ones have a better chance of being dropped by high-level monsters. I'm at level 82 right now so I think I might head to Alcamoth and see what I can clean out there seeing as how I have some quests that need me to kill off some Telethia.

Hill Fireflies were a PITA. If you have trouble finding them, go to the last landmark on Bionis Leg where it meets up with Colony 6, and get the blue orbs in the water at night. Got like 2-3 of them that way.