[GWX]

Finally played this, and... Wow, it sucked hard. Ubisoft, why? I'll stick with the PC version only for now.

[Lijik]

I keep hearing that the Vita version is amazing, and since the team already did Rayman 3D and Rabbids 3D, it's not a question of lack of 3DS experience.

I disagree. A lot of things in this demo that contribute to it feeling lazy like weird music glitches, lower quality sound, and odd graphical glitches also occur in Rayman 3D.
I just don't think the team is that great at porting things since these problems do not exist in Rabbids 3D.

[ShironRedshift]

I disagree. A lot of things in this demo that contribute to it feeling lazy like weird music glitches, lower quality sound, and odd graphical glitches also occur in Rayman 3D. I just don't think the team is that great at porting things since these problems do not exist in Rabbids 3D.

Yeah. Also considering how this is the version of the game that's taken the longest to come out, with numerous delays, you can't exactly simplify it to the port being a rush-job either. It just seems they're not great at handling ports from what I can tell.

[salpa]

I thought the game looked and played great.

But the fact that even the menu screen is very low-res kind of leads me to believe that they are having serious issues with the game, or were just trying to make it as small as possible to fit in a demo.

[WhyMe6]

Wow, this is a terrible port - at least if the demo is any indication. The visuals are just this unoptimised, down-ressed mess.

[lowrider007]

The whining seems more about the halved framerate. Very valid concern for some.

For some sure, but for the majority that own a 3DS noway, I've played the PC/PS3 that both run in full HD and 3ds is very serviceable, especially considering the hardware, my only issue is that it looks a little blurry.

[Nemo]

Was it me or is this thing blurry as hell? Smaller res doesn't help either

Game is decent if it's your only option of playing it but pretty much everyone has other ways so buy it for those platforms

For some sure, but for the majority that own a 3DS noway, I've played the PC/PS3 that both run in full HD and 3ds is very serviceable, especially considering the hardware, my only issue is that it looks a little blurry.

Definitely not a little. In games like OoT with 3D off the blur is already annoying, compared to this however it's actually not that bad. It's really awful on RO

[VanWinkle]

Did Ubisoft Casablanca also do the Vita version? I think so. I keep hearing that the Vita version is amazing, and since the team already did Rayman 3D and Rabbids 3D, it's not a question of lack of 3DS experience. Perhaps the 3DS wasn't fit to run the game as well as the others, I mean it even has a lower-res than the Wii, and the smallest screen of the bunch didn't help. That and the 3D effect might've been taxing (also explaining 30fps) compared to the non-3D Vita version. Different beasts, plus Rayman 3D wasn't a technical wonder either. What about Rabbids 3D? Anywho, I really want a new 3DS game and this is my top Demo, with Crush 3D being a bit of a distant 2nd, this is the only demo I've played more than once (trial wise). So I might bite on the 3DS version, but if not, then Wii it is. Or perhaps if Ubisoft is nice enough to include it in Legends on Wii U. *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge* :( If only.

It's interesting. Ubisoft Casablanca did indeed port both versions. The Vita, which they obviously had no experience with, had a version come out on launch day. Almost a perfect port. 60fps with fantastic image quality and audio. Yet the 3DS version comes out seven months after the console title (since 3DS was already out in November, unlike Vita) and three months after Vita. 30fps; blurry; horrible audio compression. And they even had experience with the 3DS!

I just don't understand what happened, honestly. Ported by the same company, and the far worse one having had even more development time (if I recall they were announced around the same time). It's very interesting. Of course, everything but the 30fps could just be a result of compression for the demo, but there have been demos that are far larger on the eShop than Rayman Origins, so that doesn't seem to be the issue.

[Durante]

I just don't understand what happened, honestly. Ported by the same company, and the far worse one having had even more development time (if I recall they were announced around the same time). It's very interesting.

It's not really that surprising. The Vita has ~10x the raw performance of 3DS, so getting the same game to run well on both is obviously much harder on one than the other.

[lunchwithyuzo]

Would've been nice if they had optimized 60fps for 2D mode. Why don't more devs do this?

[FLAguy954]

It's not really that surprising. The Vita has ~10x the raw performance of 3DS, so getting the same game to run well on both is obviously much harder on one than the other.

Bolded for lolz.

[salpa]

It's not really that surprising. The Vita has ~10x the raw performance of 3DS, so getting the same game to run well on both is obviously much harder on one than the other.

That number is pure bullshit dude.

[Maedhros]

I'm sure he's not being serious guys...

[richisawesome]

I'm sure he's not being serious guys...

I dunno. I'd say he was around ~10x more serious than your average person.

[goomba]

Heh funny, i just played the demo and think the 3D looks great and adds to the visual appeal.

[dallow_bg]

For some sure, but for the majority that own a 3DS noway, I've played the PC/PS3 that both run in full HD and 3ds is very serviceable, especially considering the hardware, my only issue is that it looks a little blurry.

I'm glad we agree.

[VanWinkle]

It's not really that surprising. The Vita has ~10x the raw performance of 3DS, so getting the same game to run well on both is obviously much harder on one than the other.

Umm...not if it's a game that's not entirely graphically taxing. Yeah, if it was an Uncharted type game, I would understand the big differences, but not this game. The 3DS should have no problem whatsoever running this game (other than the inherent undersides, like the low-res screen).

[colon]

Was this possibly delayed again? It was listed as a June 5 release yesterday when I added it to my GameQ but today GameFly changed the release date to TBD.

[Kirbyguy]

Was this possibly delayed again? It was listed as a June 5 release yesterday when I added it to my GameQ but today GameFly changed the release date to TBD.

"Fuck Johnson, they found out how shitty our demo is"
"But sir, we're about to go Gold! GAF Gold even!"
"I don't care, lets push it back because sales aren't there! I'm a genius!"

[Chopper]

I find it hard to believe that the quality of the presentation of this demo is indicitive of a final product. The sound is terrrrible, and there are clear graphical glitches. Will be interesting to see the finished game.

[Jackano]

It's not really that surprising. The Vita has ~10x the raw performance of 3DS, so getting the same game to run well on both is obviously much harder on one than the other.

But how many X360's are this?

[trinest]

Coming off the 360 version to this demo I really dislike the fact it isn't as sharp and amazing as the 360 version. However I feel the 3D works well with this blur and with it on enhances the world instead of been a hindrance like many 3DS titles. Its the first title which I want to play with the 3D on, despite the fact it gives me headaches.

Kind of want to double dip, but already played it to death on the 360, so most likely wait for the sequel and pick it up on Wii U or 360.

I find it hard to believe that the quality of the presentation of this demo is indicitive of a final product. The sound is terrrrible, and there are clear graphical glitches. Will be interesting to see the finished game.

To be honest I'm yet to find a game with amazing sound on the 3DS. Least it isn't as bad as Rabbids sound. (despite its awesome credits theme!)

[GhostTrick]

It's not really that surprising. The Vita has ~10x the raw performance of 3DS, so getting the same game to run well on both is obviously much harder on one than the other.

Lol. Magic numbers came from a magic hat ?
Vita could be happy if it has more than 3 times 3DS raw power.

[Lijik]

Least it isn't as bad as Rabbids sound. (despite its awesome credits theme!)

Haha after seeing it mentioned in this thread I busted out my copy just to listen to this

[chrislowe]

Lol. Magic numbers came from a magic hat ? Vita could be happy if it has more than 3 times 3DS raw power.

I think it has atleast 3times the power of the 3DS since its got almost 3 times the displaysize (800*240 vs 960*544)

and it has twice the cores.. and so on, and its got more vram then the whole total ram of 3ds. etc.

[madmackem]

Yeah if your not coming form the console version or the amazing vita version than this is decent.

[plufim]

I think it has atleast 3times the power of the 3DS since its got almost 3 times the displaysize (800*240 vs 960*544)

That's... that's not how these things work, guy.

[chrislowe]

plufim : how does it work then? couldnt you tell that also :-)

And also from my understanding the 3DS has a ARM11 cpu, and the Vita has 4 Cortex A9 cpus which deliver lots more horsepower.

[Dacvak]

Lol, this game looks like a fuzzy turd on the 3DS. Such a bummer, coming from th Vita version. The 3D was nice, but just about everything else was laughable. The 3DS is not a good system for ports.

[Luigiv]

I think it has atleast 3times the power of the 3DS since its got almost 3 times the displaysize (800*240 vs 960*544) and it has twice the cores.. and so on, and its got more vram then the whole total ram of 3ds. etc.

128MB is not more than 134MB. It's "almost as much" but not "more than".

That being said, I'd peg the Vita's power being somewhere between 3-5x. Maybe a little more in some regards. It really depends on the system's clock speeds, though, which as far as I can tell are still completely unknown.

It's definitely not 10x though. Not in a long shot.

[PumpkinPie]

I'm currently playing it on the VITA, it's fucking amazing. Out of curiosity, anyone knows if it's 60 or 30 fps on the Vita?

Neither, have you not encountered the slowdown yet??

[Durante]

That number is pure bullshit dude.

No, I can back it up with a combination of both the technical specs of the devices and benchmarks for the CPU types. For the GPU it's harder since the 3DS GPU isn't built into any device programmable (and thus easy to benchmark) by the public.

Since people seem to be really surprised by this number or even think I'm joking, I'll do the math for the CPUs:

3DS:
To the best of our knowledge, 2x ARM 11 @ 266MHz
ARM 11 is a single-issue, mostly in-order architecture

Vita:
4x ARM Cortex A9, to the best of our knowledge clocked at 800MHz
Cortex A9 is a superscalar architecture with out-of-order execution (and lots of other efficiency improvements)

By ARM's own specs, A9 performs 2.5 times faster per-clock than ARM11. So with a very approximative calculation that gives us 2 (4 cores vs 2) x 2.5 (per-clock efficiency) x 3 (~ clock speed) = 15. That doesn't take into account the multicore and SIMD improvements in the Cortex A9. So, just looking at the CPU, it seems the factor 10 was actually a bit low.

Just like it is clear that 3DS is much more successful in the marketplace, it's also clear that the difference in raw performance is massive.

Disclaimer: Working with, understanding and optimizing the performance of parallel architectures is my job.

Umm...not if it's a game that's not entirely graphically taxing. Yeah, if it was an Uncharted type game, I would understand the big differences, but not this game. The 3DS should have no problem whatsoever running this game (other than the inherent undersides, like the low-res screen).

I agree that the 3DS should likely be able to run the game at higher fidelity than it does. I was simply trying to answer the question of "what happened". There's a big difference between trying to port a game initially made for platform 10+ times more powerful and developing it from the start for 3DS -- which would likely have yielded better results.

[zigg]

There's a big difference between trying to port a game initially made for platform 10+ times more powerful and developing it from the start for 3DS -- which would likely have yielded better results.

The Wii version should, by that standard, also be a downport—and yet it runs great.

Unless there's some quirk of the 3DS architecture I'm not aware of, it seems to me that this is a bad port rather than the best that can be done with this game on 3DS.

[nincompoop]

lololo

Did you work for Atari's marketing department during the Jaguar era, by any chance?

[SteeloDMZ]

Lol, this game looks like a fuzzy turd on the 3DS. Such a bummer, coming from th Vita version. The 3D was nice, but just about everything else was laughable. The 3DS is not a good system for ports.

Street Fighter 4 was a fantastic port.

[Skilletor]

Neither, have you not encountered the slowdown yet??

It's 60fps. The framedips are rare.

[Lonely1]

The CPU is the weakest part of the 3DS and without doubt much weaker than Vita's. I suspect it's the bottleneck for this port. But it also has two VFP Co-Processor and DSP. Do we know Vita's clock? Does it has any other co-processors?

[KevinCow]

This is why I loved a lot of the levels in Donkey Kong Country Returns. In a lot of them you are being chased, or the level is collapsing around you, and you have to just keep on moving to maintain the flow. The difference is that when I failed in DKCR, I understood why immediately, and felt like it was my fault. In Rayman Origins, I feel less certain of who to blame. I don't feel like I have a great handle on what Rayman is going to do when, and why, and so I don't think "oh, I needed to do *this* or *that*." I think "wait, what." And then I fail in the same spot over and over again in a fashion that doesn't feel like I'm actually making progress. I'm pretty good at platformers, so I'm sure I'd improve my forecasting ability if I put more time into it. But I'm not used to having to adjust to a game's physics like this.

I just played this demo, and this is pretty much how I feel.

I played the PS3 demo back when it was released and was kinda iffy on it because the controls felt kinda sloppy and sluggish. And in this demo, that problem is still there, and an even bigger issue thanks to the second level. It's like Super Meat Boy levels of trial & error, except with sluggish controls, no instant restart, and world geometry that's not entirely clear due to the art. And I already hated Super Meat Boy for its trial & error gameplay and its absolute requirement for precision input.

I drew the exact same comparison to DKCR, which had fantastic collapsing levels that gave a sense of urgency without making me think, "What the hell, that was fucking bullshit," when I died. Whereas this demo's second level, I died like five times in a row on the same jump in the first ten seconds and had no idea what I was doing wrong.

Maybe I'll give this game another shot when I can get the PS3 or 360 version for like ten bucks, but hell if I'll pay more than that after hating both of these demos. Honestly not a fan of the art style or music that everyone praises, either.

I'll also say that Rayman 3 GBA was a way better 2D Rayman platformer.

[OmegaZero]

To be honest I'm yet to find a game with amazing sound on the 3DS. Least it isn't as bad as Rabbids sound. (despite its awesome credits theme!)

Ace Combat: Assault Horizon Legacy has the best sound I've encountered in a 3DS game so far.

[SaintMadeOfPlaster]

Can't believe how shitty the 3DS version of this game is. It's like they tried to make it as bad as possible. You can barely even see Rayman for crying out loud.

[usmanusb]

well guys I have played PC version and then I tried 3ds demo. And I think its quite nice to see with 3d effects. The art work is there and sound is also fine. I think to put forward who has better hardware may not be good point. I have played the demo i feel like its 3d effects are adding an extra layer pleasure something when we play HD titles add something to SD titles. just have fun...

[Durante]

The CPU is the weakest part of the 3DS and without doubt much weaker than Vita's. I suspect it's the bottleneck for this port. But it also has two VFP Co-Processor and DSP. Do we know Vita's clock? Does it has any other co-processors?

We don't know the Vita CPU's clock speed for certain. The Cortex A9s are rated for 800 MHz to 2 GHz, so I just assumed the lowest end of that range for the comparison. In terms of "Co-Processors", it doesn't really need such a thing. Each of the 4 A9 cores fully supports NEON (ARM's SIMD extensions) with 128 bit wide operands, and can retire half of those operations per clock.

[Symphonic]

Can't believe how shitty the 3DS version of this game is. It's like they tried to make it as bad as possible. You can barely even see Rayman for crying out loud.

This was bound to happen though given the nature of the game's style and the size of the 3DS screen.

I enjoyed the demo quite a bit, made me smile, but I haven't played Origins on anything else so I have nothing to compare it to.

[Bluemercury]

The pc version looks really great....i just might buy the steam version, its currently in 20€ price...

[blu]

We don't know the Vita CPU's clock speed for certain. The Cortex A9s are rated for 800 MHz to 2 GHz, so I just assumed the lowest end of that range for the comparison. In terms of "Co-Processors", it doesn't really need such a thing. Each of the 4 A9 cores fully supports NEON (ARM's SIMD extensions) with 128 bit wide operands, and can retire half of those operations per clock.

Perhaps you meant to say issue?

[SmokyDave]

No, I can back it up with a combination of both the technical specs of the devices and benchmarks for the CPU types. For the GPU it's harder since the 3DS GPU isn't built into any device programmable (and thus easy to benchmark) by the public. Since people seem to be really surprised by this number or even think I'm joking, I'll do the math for the CPUs: 3DS: To the best of our knowledge, 2x ARM 11 @ 266MHz ARM 11 is a single-issue, mostly in-order architecture Vita: 4x ARM Cortex A9, to the best of our knowledge clocked at 800MHz Cortex A9 is a superscalar architecture with out-of-order execution (and lots of other efficiency improvements) By ARM's own specs, A9 performs 2.5 times faster per-clock than ARM11. So with a very approximative calculation that gives us 2 (4 cores vs 2) x 2.5 (per-clock efficiency) x 3 (~ clock speed) = 15. That doesn't take into account the multicore and SIMD improvements in the Cortex A9. So, just looking at the CPU, it seems the factor 10 was actually a bit low. Just like it is clear that 3DS is much more successful in the marketplace, it's also clear that the difference in raw performance is massive. Disclaimer: Working with, understanding and optimizing the performance of parallel architectures is my job. I agree that the 3DS should likely be able to run the game at higher fidelity than it does. I was simply trying to answer the question of "what happened". There's a big difference between trying to port a game initially made for platform 10+ times more powerful and developing it from the start for 3DS -- which would likely have yielded better results.

Jeez, they're pretty much different generations.

[murderofMonkey]

i know that the soundoutput of the 3ds is not so great but rayman origins is like this

[stalker]

Rayman 3 GBA is horrible imo, vastly inferior to the rest of the series and of course Origins.

I m sad to hear that the demo is bad, I wanted to buy it a fourth time (PS3, Wii, Vita).

[Shiggy]

http://www.amazon.com/Rayman-Origins...601545&sr=1-12

This item will be released on November 6, 2012.

[RockmanWhore]

I was really disapointed by the 3DS demo. Not only does the game runs like shit, but it seems to run in a very low resolution because the image is so blurry. What an horrible port, or maybe it's just that the hardware is not competant enough. It's a shame because 2D sprites and 3D displays works really well, for exemple Mighty Switch Force looks really nice.