[Hydrogen Bluebird]

So I just finished the game and I liked what Quantic Dream did. The game was a really unique experience and is unlike any game I've played before it. With that said though, I can't see myself playing it again. QTEs don't have a lasting replay value for me and some of the button combinations are ridiculously hard to press at the same time (one I found to be really hard was when Ethan had to go through electric wires).

The story was good but It left me with a question:

If Ethan wasn't the Killer, what was up with his blackouts and how the hell does he end up with some Origami Figures?

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

So I just finished the game and I liked what Quantic Dream did. The game was a really unique experience and is unlike any game I've played before it. With that said though, I can't see myself playing it again. QTEs don't have a lasting replay value for me and some of the button combinations are ridiculously hard to press at the same time (one I found to be really hard was when Ethan had to go through electric wires). The story was good but It left me with a question: If Ethan wasn't the Killer, what was up with his flashbacks and how the hell does he end up with some Origami Figures?

It involves story elements that were supernatural in nature and cut out, but it leaves multiple glaring plot holes. Apparently since Shelby was there in the same area as Ethan when Jason died, they had a supernatural bond that formed.

I liked the concept of this game, but the narrative execution sucks. Shelby being the killer doesn't make any sense since his narration doesn't match at all with what's going on. And Ethan's blackouts make no sense since they cut all that out. Madison's(?) story seemed very extraneous. I liked Jayden's scenes though. The trippy stuff was awesome.

Very disappointing altogether though.

[namDa65]

Platinum was a fun time. Watching how the endings can differ was decent. As for your question, I think Ethan was just psycho from his other son dying.

He also liked to make origami. haha have not thought about that.


edit: Sort of agree with above poster. Narration was lame but I loved it anyways.

[Typographenia]

If Ethan wasn't the Killer, what was up with his flashbacks and how the hell does he end up with some Origami Figures?

Was supposedly going to be explained the the DLC chapters they had mentioned, but that was dropped in favor of Move support.


Glad to hear you liked it, though. It's been one of my favorite experiments in games this gen.

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

It involves story elements that were supernatural in nature and cut out, but it leaves multiple glaring plot holes. Apparently since Shelby was there in the same area as Ethan when Jason died, they had a supernatural bond that formed.

What the hell? Did Sony and/or Quantic Dream mention this? It was a really glaring plot hole.

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

What the hell? Did Sony and/or Quantic Dream mention this? It was a really glaring plot hole.

It was mentioned and if I recall correctly, there's video footage of it on the internet.

[Gen X]

I like how on the PSN page it says 'Keep checking back for more content' and there has been none since release.

[MuseManMike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxpdGB6Gbac

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxpdGB6Gbac

Ah, well, all the answers are here.

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

It was mentioned and if I recall correctly, there's video footage of it on the internet.

I'll try to look for it.

Also, it was really stupid the way the game made players shake their controllers up and down.


Edit:

Thanks for posting the video MuseManMike

[Juan29.zapata]

Heavy Rain wasn't a bad game, but dammit, why couldn't they make a better assassin? Hell, even if I would've hated it and would've left me marked, Ethan was a better choice, since not even he would know he was the Killer.

Still, I found it enjoyable. Great to play with people who don't play games.

[MuseManMike]

This may explain it a bit more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t0uCWjQ6Og

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

Is the deleted scenes video an unlockable in the game? Because I don't think I unlocked it. The things I unlocked were:

Heavy Rain Trailer
Heavy Rain Prototype: The Casting
7 concept art sections
Making of 1: Crafting Virtual Actors
Making of 2: Casting Real Actors
Making of 3: Music

[MuseManMike]

No -- but it was made available for download off of the store, iirc.

[mr_toa]

It's been one of my favorite experiments in games this gen.

Seconded. The missus and I got the "A New Life"-ending on our first playthrough, so that's difficult to top out :-). Warts and all, Heavy Rain was an interesting take on the medium, and also one of my faves this generation.

[EXGN]

First time seeing those extra clips, explains a lot. Honestly, they should have ditched the blackout thing altogether because as it is, it's only purpose is to serve as a red herring. It makes no sense in the context of the actual game.

Additionally, the Madison parts would have been good too. So little is explained about her, she felt so much like an extra character that was simply thrown in after the fact to have a girl that could get naked and act as eye candy. The research angle sounds too much like Jayden's sections though - maybe they could have merged the two characters?

Still one of my favorite games of this generation, but it's definitely not without its faults. I urge all my RL friends with PS3s to at least try the game.

[ShipTheCheese]

Can't watch the clips, due to being stuck at work. What does it explain? I can't imagine it being able to feasibly explain Shelby being the killer. It's just.. no.. it just doesn't make any sense.

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

I think Shelby being the killer makes sense. Ethan's blackouts and his origami figure don't.

[arglebargle]

I liked the concept of this game, but the narrative execution sucks. Shelby being the killer doesn't make any sense since his narration doesn't match at all with what's going on. And Ethan's blackouts make no sense since they cut all that out. Madison's(?) story seemed very extraneous. I liked Jayden's scenes though. The trippy stuff was awesome. Very disappointing altogether though.

Glad to hear you liked it, though. It's been one of my favorite experiments in games this gen.

i agree with both of these, if thats possible. i thought it was really interesting and i would like to see more games like it and more developers test the best narrative structures for games. on the other hand, once you spend any real amount of time thinking about plot details it pretty much falls apart. to me the way this manifested itself is that there were some really good and even emotionally affecting scenes, but the overall plot is a bit nonsense.

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I think Shelby being the killer makes sense. Ethan's blackouts and his origami figure don't.

The problem with Shelby as the killer is that it feels like the game outright lies to you about it.

i agree with both of these, if thats possible. i thought it was really interesting and i would like to see more games like it and more developers test the best narrative structures for games. on the other hand, once you spend any real amount of time thinking about plot details it pretty much falls apart. to me the way this manifested itself is that there were some really good and even emotionally affecting scenes, but the overall plot is a bit nonsense.

Very much this. Individual scenes taken on their own are pretty great. Love 'The Lizard', so tense. Some of the slower bits are fantastic as well. Some great character moments, with Ethan's sorrow and Jayden's addiction. But once you think of the larger narrative plot, everything falls apart and makes no sense.

[EXGN]

I think Shelby being the killer makes sense. Ethan's blackouts and his origami figure don't.

The only thing I don't like about Shelby being the killer is that we are privy to his thoughts and it in no way makes it seem as if he's the killer. I'm pretty sure he actually talks about having to stop the killer/rescue Shaun Mars at some point, but it's been a while.

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

The only thing I don't like about Shelby being the killer is that we are privy to his thoughts and it in no way makes it seem as if he's the killer. I'm pretty sure he actually talks about having to stop the killer/rescue Shaun Mars at some point, but it's been a while.

It's something to that effect. I don't specifically remember it, but I remember his thoughts don't jive with his actions, and it at one point outright lies to you.

It'd only make sense if he had a split personality or blackouts or something, but that never happens either.

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

The problem with Shelby as the killer is that it feels like the game outright lies to you about it.

How so?

I think Shelby was cleaning up/collecting evidence that could lead back to him.

Edit:

Ah, yes. If I remember correctly, Shelby "thinks" (L2 + face button) about saving Shaun Mars.

[ShipTheCheese]

The only thing I don't like about Shelby being the killer is that we are privy to his thoughts and it in no way makes it seem as if he's the killer. I'm pretty sure he actually talks about having to stop the killer/rescue Shaun Mars at some point, but it's been a while.

EXACTLY! This is my biggest gripe with the entire plot twist.

[Neiteio]

Heavy Rain is the most incredible gaming experience ever the first time through. But revisiting chapters is a soul-less drag. Unless you revisit them with someone seeing them for the first time (preferably a cute girl)!

[PumpkinPie]

I got tired of fighting the control scheme, no way should it be that hard to simply control a character.


Also: tearing. When your game is running at a shit framerate to start with there is no excuse for tearing that bad.

[disappeared]

Heavy Rain is the most incredible gaming experience ever the first time through. But revisiting chapters is a soul-less drag. Unless you revisit them with someone seeing them for the first time (preferably a cute girl)!

I'd rather just sit on the couch with her and watch a well-written movie.

[Neiteio]

I'd rather just sit on the couch with her and watch a well-written movie.

Not nearly as funny as fumbling around trying to feed the baby milk in that one chapter with Shelby and the wrist-slitter mom. (She couldn't keep the analog stick in one place long enough to complete the QTE)

[Figboy79]

One of the things I think Heavy Rain did better than any game from this gen with a similar mechanic was consequence. So many games tout having a story that challenges your mind and forces you to make the hard decisions, but most of the time, the chioces are so blatantly telegraphed for you. But in Heavy Rain, you really just don't quite know how your actios are going to effect the story. Tbe fact that the game has 22 permutations of endings is impressive. I had a great time reading the unmarked spoiler thread, and seeing how different people's playthroughs were in comparison to mine and tbe others.

Not a perfect game, but what is? Definitely one of the most memorable and unique gaming experiences I've had this gen.

[R_thanatos]

i still think everything but shelby killing her mother should have been included ...
Ethan finding the letter is fine but it's a scene that's too easy to miss , i knew about it on my 4th play only ...

The is no need to make the origamis on ethan appear that way without the black out scenes ..it make no sense ...Had the story conserved those scenes , it would have been much more believable because the player would know from that point on that the characters perspective could be wrong .. you could argue that this was shown with madisson dream but that only served but build madisson page character not to move the story ... futhermore , there is no dialog to get madison past or circustances ... Why cut those ? make them optionnal ( her work scenes) it would have been much better if we could get more of the characters stories through madison investigations.

IMO heavy rain is a fine game but they shoudln't have strayed so far from their initial vision ... The only character with enough information in was shelby and that's a shame when you have 4 leads

Shelby being a lying character is fine as long as you give enough clues that the leads perspective could be wrong in some cases ... Wait a second ... they did that with the FBI profiler & madisson . Well then it's fine after all

[A Link to the Snitch]

The problem with Shelby as the killer is that it feels like the game outright lies to you about it. Very much this. Individual scenes taken on their own are pretty great. Love 'The Lizard', so tense. Some of the slower bits are fantastic as well. Some great character moments, with Ethan's sorrow and Jayden's addiction. But once you think of the larger narrative plot, everything falls apart and makes no sense.

Unreliable narrator. Tells the viewers only what he wants them to hear, and only in the way they want.

[Pollux]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxpdGB6Gbac

After watching that, every single decision they made on what to take out of the game was an overall TERRIBLE decision.

[Para bailar La Bomba]

The problem with Shelby as the killer is that it feels like the game outright lies to you about it.

Maybe not "outright lies" but certainly "consciously misleading".

They could have handled this a lot better I agree. Here's how I would have written Shelby's character:

Shelby's internal monologues demonstrate an unrelenting compulsive obsession to find evidence and to solve the mystery. His behavior is weird, unusual and we initially begin to question his motives.

Gradually the player starts to think the reason for his obsession is because he is so moved and touched being in constant contact with all these parents who have suffered at the loss of their children. He even mentions: "Something like this happened to me once".

He wants to solve the mystery as much as we did. We begin to empathize. As our struggles become one, his obsessive compulsion becomes a dogged determination in our eyes. All his quirks from early in the game start to become rationalized.

<ENTER TWIST>

Instead we are forced to start liking Shelby because he rescues a hooker and nurses a baby. That's not good writing.

[Izick]

Absolutely loved it. I'm one of those cynical people that nitpicks stuff internally, I guess what is going to happen next, and what the ending is going to be, as things are usually fairly predictable. I never saw the ending coming from a mile away though. Shelby as the killer? I was playing as the killer for 1/3rd of the game!? Now I knew why he did some of the stuff that seemed a little out of place, but still normal-ish for the circumstances at the time, like when you removed all fingerprints from the crime scene of that dead clock-maker, I think he was.

Anyway, the game was just this amazing thrill-ride experience that I couldn't put down. Me and a friend played through it, switching who played as it switched characters. Me and him see the whole game through was pretty great, and provides lots of good memories. Everything in the game just held you by the seat of your pants, and didn't let go. Sure, it wasn't as game-y as it could have been, the tank controls were a bit bothersome, and troubling since some things required doing sections fast, but it was all great.

I'm hoping QD's next game is another step up, because if it is, then I'm ready to see what they have in store. I loved the noire vibe of HR, but I would love a schi-fi setting for their next game, like how their tech demo was.

[timetokill]

Glad you could enjoy it OP. Personally I found it to be completely insulting and a massive leap back for the industry.

If we're going to accept games with such terrible writing, massive plot holes, lack of meaningful gameplay, awful direction, and generally a lack of any real consequence with praise as an "advancement in storytelling" then the medium is truly lost.

[Apostate]

Most of the deleted scenes in that YouTube video could (some even SHOULD) have been included, if not in the final version, at least as playable scenes post-game.

[Ledsen]

Glad you could enjoy it OP. Personally I found it to be completely insulting and a massive leap back for the industry. If we're going to accept games with such terrible writing, massive plot holes, lack of meaningful gameplay, awful direction, and generally a lack of any real consequence with praise as an "advancement in storytelling" then the medium is truly lost.

Fully agree. This abortion of a "game" is everything that's wrong with the current direction of a large part of the industry.

[A Link to the Snitch]

Glad you could enjoy it OP. Personally I found it to be completely insulting and a massive leap back for the industry. If we're going to accept games with such terrible writing, massive plot holes, lack of meaningful gameplay, awful direction, and generally a lack of any real consequence with praise as an "advancement in storytelling" then the medium is truly lost.

I think Heavy Rain gets too much of a bad rap for its gameplay. Note the too much: I'm not saying that it doesn't deserve a little criticism for it, but some people just completely write off the gameplay. For a game that is only there to tell a story - as well as get players involved with the story - it serves a pretty good purpose. I would rather experience a story through these means than to have them tack on poor gameplay. (and yes, it could have good gameplay, but just work with me here)

That being said, yeah, Heavy Rain's story and everything else that it entails kinda sucks. I did enjoy Scott Shelby's VA/character model, though.

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

I understand where the hate for this "game" comes from, I just appreciate it for the things that it actually did. I mean technically, it was above most of the games I've played this gen. The club chapter alone is a good example of the technical wizardry at work. Seeing all the people dancing, the lighting, and the whole environment was really remarkable.

[conman]

I understand where the hate for this "game" comes from, I just appreciate it for the things that it actually did. I mean technically, it was above most of the games I've played this gen. The club chapter alone is a good example of the technical wizardry at work. Seeing all the people dancing, the lighting, and the whole environment was really remarkable.

Yes. The game mechanics and design are excellent, but the story was abysmal beyond belief.

Other games can get away with crappy stories because the emphasis in most other games is usually on play. But Heavy Rain gets so much (deserved) flak because all the emphasis is on story. Personally, I found it a painfully bad experience from beginning to end. I'm honestly not quite sure why I stuck through it. I think it was because the design was so unique. But, my god, the writing was awful.

[SwiftSketcher]

I thought of Ethan's blackouts as a side effect of the deep mental trauma the death of Jason caused. The Origami figures are still confusing though.

Can't wait to see more of Kara.

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

Replayed this a while ago so I could get the 4 heroes trophy (started replay at a late chapter) and it's really amazing how some scenes were added and how different the ending turned out to be.

[MuseManMike]

Replayed this a while ago so I could get the 4 heroes trophy (started replay at a late chapter) and it's really amazing how some scenes were added and how different the ending turned out to be.

One of the few truly "non-linear" or at least "branching" story-lines ever in a modern big-budget title. As flawed as the game is, it is truly a divergent experience depending on the choices one makes.

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

Agreed. The player really has no idea what consequences his choices will have.

[tmarques]

Game is full of ridiculous writing and glaring holes, many of which cannot be explained by the elimination of the supernatural subplot.

Can anyone explain why that millionaire was so guilt-ridden that a trailer-trash kid died accidentally in his property that he felt the need to bring flowers to his grave for several decades, but when he's confronted with the fact that his own son molested and murdered a child he shrugs his shoulders and says "Kid was just street trash anyway"?

Still entertaining, I'm just glad I didn't pay full price for it.

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

Can anyone explain why that millionaire was so guilt-ridden that a trailer-trash kid died accidentally in his property that he felt the need to bring flowers to his grave for several decades, but when he's confronted with the fact that his own son molested and murdered a child he shrugs his shoulders and says "Kid was just street trash anyway"?

Well damn...

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Game is full of ridiculous writing and glaring holes, many of which cannot be explained by the elimination of the supernatural subplot. Can anyone explain why that millionaire was so guilt-ridden that a trailer-trash kid died accidentally in his property that he felt the need to bring flowers to his grave for several decades, but when he's confronted with the fact that his own son molested and murdered a child he shrugs his shoulders and says "Kid was just street trash anyway"? Still entertaining, I'm just glad I didn't pay full price for it.

Jesus...

I didn't even think of that one.

[Drencrom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxpdGB6Gbac

It still boggles my mind that they removed these scenes. I'd rather have a paranormal explanation than weird plot holes.

Can anyone explain why that millionaire was so guilt-ridden that a trailer-trash kid died accidentally in his property that he felt the need to bring flowers to his grave for several decades, but when he's confronted with the fact that his own son molested and murdered a child he shrugs his shoulders and says "Kid was just street trash anyway"?

Hahah oh wow, never thought of that!

[Gestahl]

I watched an LP of it, hilarious game though I don't think that was intended. "Jason!," and whenever someone became a villain and began laughing maniacally it made my day. The FBI guy juggling chickens in that chase scene was something else too. I'm not sure how anyone can take Heavy Rain seriously.