[AngryMoth]

I'm well prepared to get flayed alive for saying this, but Peter Dinklage's performance this season hasn't been as good as I had hoped. I mean he's always fun to watch, the lines they give him are hilarious, and I like the character. Of course, this is true. But he's totally ineffective in conveying any kind of deep emotions. Is that the point?

Have to disagree, Dinklage is still one of the standout performances for me. He was excellent in his scenes with Cersei and Shae in the most recent episode. The Shae scenes was severely dismissed though I felt due to the juxtaposition of his amazing acting against Shae's...not so great acting, although to be fair it was also due to the fact that's it's very hard to understand why Tyrion is so infatuated with her (in the books as well really).

[Speevy]

Meh, it was so heavy handed I couldn't take it seriously. Osha sneaking into Winterfell in broad daylight, the clunky reveal dialogue...eh.

Also, I think they used the same music for Robb having sex with Oona Chaplin. So I'm thinking of Oona Chaplin naked.

[Steelyuhas]

Hodor. That scene was so great. The music was beautiful.

That music might be my favorite from the series thus far.

Also, I think they used the same music for Robb having sex with Oona Chaplin. So I'm thinking of Oona Chaplin naked.

No, different music (Although also a new track to the show).

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Anyone else frightfully disappointed with season 2 so far?

Not necessarily frightfully disappointed, but a little sad that it hasn't grown as I'd hoped it would. It's a victim of small budget and rushed production, but that's just the nature of the beast.

I haven't read the books and I think it is great.

You don't know what you're missing.

[NathanMcMahon]

I haven't read the books and I think it is great.

[Anton Sugar]

Meh, it was so heavy handed I couldn't take it seriously. Osha sneaking into Winterfell in broad daylight, the clunky reveal dialogue...eh.

Yeah, I was like, "Really? You're going to whisper loudly about something you don't want Bran to hear, when he is literally right around the corner?"

[NathanMcMahon]

You don't know what you're missing.

I do. I'm aware of most of the major events so there's that. I want to experience the show first and then read the books. Also, if he happens to keel over, I don't want to be left hanging.

[PhoenixPause]

Not necessarily frightfully disappointed, but a little sad that it hasn't grown as I'd hoped it would. It's a victim of small budget and rushed production, but that's just the nature of the beast. You don't know what you're missing.

I think it's good, I'm just baffled at some of the creative decisions and disappointed that I'm coming to the realization that this will probably never be a truly great show. There's simply too much material, not enough thematic string holding it together, and questionable writing for it to be something that matches something like The Rome (S1), Breaking Bad, The Shield etc.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I do. I'm aware of most of the major events so there's that. I want to experience the show first and then read the books. Also, if he happens to keel over, I don't want to be left hanging.

It's not necessarily about the major events, because most of those are still there. The journey to those events is the problem for some of the characters. What's in the show is inferior.

I think it's good, I'm just baffled at some of the creative decisions and disappointed that I'm coming to the realization that this will probably never be a truly great show. There's simply too much material, not enough thematic string holding it together, and question writing for it to be something that matches something like The Rome (S1), Breaking Bad, The Shield etc.

When I first heard HBO was going to do the show, I instantly imagined it being the quality of Rome. That was a mistake. I'll just have to adjust expectations for the future. And hopefully with ASOS being given a lot more space, some problems can be eased.

[gutshot]

Yeah, I was like, "Really? You're going to whisper loudly about something you don't want Bran to hear, when he is literally right around the corner?"

She thought he was asleep.

[ColonialRaptor]

Not necessarily frightfully disappointed, but a little sad that it hasn't grown as I'd hoped it would. It's a victim of small budget and rushed production, but that's just the nature of the beast.

No I don't think so - it's got all the elements it needs, I personally just think it's the writing that has ruined it.

The only good parts are the bits that focus on the Lannister's personally.

And yes, I completely agree about the scene where Osha came out of the dungeon during the day time... totally WTF, also NO one knew they were there. The whole thing has been really badly constructed - it's been made for book readers by book readers without thinking enough about people who haven't read the book.

My mother is watching it with me and she has no idea wtf is going on.

This is why I want feedback from people who haven't read the books yet - What do you think of the series so far???

[Cornballer]

Should listen to the audio books. Guy does a great job with both him and Littlefinger (and everyone else for that matter). The audio books are done by Roy Dotrice who plays Pycelle in the HBO series.

The audiobooks are great. I've listened to a lot of them on the road, and Roy Dotrice does a wonderful job with the voices.

Dotrice was supposed to play Pycelle, but he had to back out due to illness. He had a brief appearance this season as Hallyne of the pig shit conversation.

This is why I want feedback from people who haven't read the books yet - What do you think of the series so far???

Based on the other thread and reactions online, non book readers seem to be really enjoying the series so far.

[anaron]

wow, they decided to focus further on the WORST force fed romance on TV right now and severely damage Cat's character in the process.

[Kammie]

She thought he was asleep.

And how can we justify Quorin whispering his plan loudly when the Lord of Bones was two steps behind him? :P

Sometimes it's best to just admit something is just a lazy tv/movie convention.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

And how can we justify Quorin whispering his plan loudly when the Lord of Bones was two steps behind him? :P Sometimes it's best to just admit something is just a lazy tv/movie convention.

Simple, TV Quorin is an idiot.

[Kammie]

Simple, TV Quorin is an idiot.

lol. Can't argue this one.

[Lax Mike]

Based on the other thread and reactions online, non book readers seem to be really enjoying the series so far.

I think the reason for the "disappointment" is that a lot of book readers are just now judging the show as it really is. In Season 1, every one who was a fan of the books was not only blinded by the fact that the show was actually happening, but also desperately wanted the show to succeed, and so were willing to suppress their criticisms in fear that if these criticisms got out, it would lead to the shows ratings dropping due to word of mouth, and potentially being cancelled. With that fear relieved, book-readers now feel freer to criticize the show, since it now has a safe future.

And of course there's the fact that a TV/Film adaptation will truly please the source material's readers.

[Forsaken82]

I think the reason for the "disappointment" is that a lot of book readers are just now judging the show as it really is. In Season 1, every one who was a fan of the books was not only blinded by the fact that the show was actually happening, but also desperately wanted the show to succeed, and so were willing to suppress their criticisms in fear that if these criticisms got out, it would lead to the shows ratings dropping due to word of mouth, and potentially being cancelled. With that fear relieved, book-readers now feel freer to criticize the show, since it now has a safe future. And of course there's the fact that a TV/Film adaptation will truly please the source material's readers.

Well as a book reader I really enjoy the show. The show got me back into reading (fiction) as a matter of fact, but I would be lying if I said season 2 was fantastic knowing what I know has been adapted poorly from the book (my main gripe is the neutering of Arya's storyline mainly, most of the other changes I am on board with). It is a sad truth of most adaptions. But just because I am disappointed, doesn't mean the show is shit. It is one of my favorite television shows.

[aceface]

I don't think it's a stretch to say that non-book readers are enjoying the show overall. I read the other thread a lot and it's about 90% positive. I think for book readers the problem is that it's never going to live up to the source material. The books are huge and packed with details...the show runners have to pick out just a few to put in the show and then elide/rewrite/make up scenes to quickly convey info that might have happend over several chapters in the book. For example, the scene with Littlefinger and Ros, non-book reader thinks "hmmm this guy is pretty ruthless I wonder what he has up his sleeve" while book reader thinks "wtf this has nothing to do with anything ahhhh" since we know it doesn't really lead to anywhere specific. But what it does is give some insight into Littlefingers character that we get over the course of many chapters in the book.

What I do is just try to let go, enjoy it for what it is and focus on the scenes that are well adapted. For example at the end of ep 7 the Jaime/Cat scene and the Theon scene were so well done I had tears in my eyes. Its just awesome seeing those iconic scenes brought so brilliantly to life. I wanted to fucking kill Jaime when he started talking about Ned...it's one thing to read that speech and another to hear this slimeball say it...that's the kind of thing tv can do well.

[-Pyromaniac-]

I'm still truly baffled as to why they invent stuff just for the show, when there is more than enough stuff from the book to include (better stuff). Why do more work for yourselves? Like I truly want to ask them this question so I can understand. I can't wrap my head around it. I'm not even whining or yelling at then, I am genuinely curious as to the reasoning for this. Do they think that perhaps they know better? As in they know what's better for a show.

Like I said, overall I don't care because I just look to be entertained, and I am being plenty entertained, but that bugs me in the back of my mind every time it happens.

[Anton Sugar]

Simple, TV Quorin is an idiot.

Yeah, love how the Lord of Bones just saunters on by.

[apana]

Anyone else frightfully disappointed with season 2 so far? I'd like to hear from people who haven't read the books as to what they think about what has been happening and what they think is going on. Personally I have read the books and I have a very low opinion of the way that this season has been portrayed and represented thus far. Reason being: DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS The portrayal of the characters is completely bogus, all of them... ALL OF THEM have been mis-represented like sissy's and nancy's and none of the defining moments and elements of their characters developments from the books have been shown in the show and therefore, the character's just seem boring and undeveloped. I want to know what the people who have no read the books think of this because personally if I had not read the books I probably might be satisfied, but having read them I'm almost disgusted by the lack of portrayal of Arya's development, and unless I remember incorrectly she DID NOT escape from the castle while the Lannister's held it, unless I remember incorrectly and they got away and were re-captured... I vaguely remember that being the case, but I feel like I'm making it up in my mind to justify them coming back to the castle while the Mummers hold it. There has been none of Arya practicing her dancing in the trees at night, all the fuck she has done is poor drinks for Tywin which is just ridiculously stupid and has not at all helped to show her development into the hard-arse that she's supposed to develop into. Dany has become a whiny whingy crappy dare I say "crazy" Targaryen bent on the Iron throne like her brother which is not how I felt it was in the books, she wanted to get back to Westeros of course, but everything she did in Qarth was not bent on that one thing and they've left out all of the other cool happenings. I'm looking forward to the scene in the House of the Undying but I'm afraid that it's going to be frightfully disappointing by my reckoning based on the way things have been going so far. To me, it's like the series has been created FOR book readers and to 'fill in the gaps' for people who have read the books. It's like they have decided to show only the main stay plot points that were the focus of the books, and EVERYTHING that wasn't. If you see what I mean? I suppose all of those things that I'm describing could be happening when the viewer isn't watching the characters, but it's just making the whole thing into a WTF is going on affair on most counts. I am absolutely bedazzled that the Blackwater chain has not been mentioned or described at all yet and if it just magically is there I will be pissed beyond reckoning, the whole thing to me just feels like such a mess. I'm enjoying watching it for sure, but I'm bored while watching it, there are so many wasteful scenes, so many scenes where time is wasted on pointless bullshit. What the fuck was that shit with Littlefinger and the whore where he threatened her not to cry? Pointless and not needed, okay it shows the ruthlessness and cunning of Littlefinger, but COME ON, I almost think that once again we're not going to get to see ANY fighting or battle scenes and if they don't have a crazy huge battle scene for the Blackwater attack I might almost give up on the TV show. AND Jaime has been let go already? HUH? WTF? That's 4th book shit, wtf is going on? They are super speeding the story or something, I just don't get it - everything is all wrong, I guess they must be changing up the story heaps and perhaps they're preparing to go in a totally different direction than the books because they realise that the books won't be finished in time for the seasons to continue each year. Where are the frog kids? Where is Ghost? Jon's wolf is strangely missing all of a sudden. Why didn't they let us at least see Stormsend? Everything north of the wall so far has been pathetic. The wildlings don't look like wildlings aught to. I'm just having a big whinge because I'm not enjoying it as much as I wish I was. I hope the reason that it's like this is because that they've saved their budget for the last couple of episodes... I'm hoping that's the case because there are some really big and important things to happen still, so lets hope so!

I agree with some of what you say eventhough I still love this show. Like you implied I think David and Dan may be making this show a bit too soft. The Jon story arc is simply inexcusable.

[NathanMcMahon]

I'm still truly baffled as to why they invent stuff just for the show, when there is more than enough stuff from the book to include (better stuff). Why do more work for yourselves? Like I truly want to ask them this question so I can understand. I can't wrap my head around it. I'm not even whining or yelling at then, I am genuinely curious as to the reasoning for this. Do they think that perhaps they know better? As in they know what's better for a show. Like I said, overall I don't care because I just look to be entertained, and I am being plenty entertained, but that bugs me in the back of my mind every time it happens.

Yes, they do, and rightfully so as it is their show.

[tino]

wow, they decided to focus further on the WORST force fed romance on TV right now and severely damage Cat's character in the process.

I think both Robb and Cat come off less of the idiots that they are in the book. I like the changes.

So far HBO Robb is much cooler character than HBO Jon Snow.

They have made a major changes to the Arya character however, I think by skipping the horrible things Arya had to do the book HBO has made Arya a much more conventional character than the one in the book. I think they need to find more screen time for Arya next season in order to justify the change they made to this character.

I don't mind either way. I think GRRM hadn't made up his mind about the Arya plot when he was writing book 3 and 4.

[Vyer]

I'm still truly baffled as to why they invent stuff just for the show, when there is more than enough stuff from the book to include (better stuff). Why do more work for yourselves? Like I truly want to ask them this question so I can understand. I can't wrap my head around it. I'm not even whining or yelling at then, I am genuinely curious as to the reasoning for this. Do they think that perhaps they know better? As in they know what's better for a show. Like I said, overall I don't care because I just look to be entertained, and I am being plenty entertained, but that bugs me in the back of my mind every time it happens.

It would be a disaster to do otherwise. The mediums are not the same. They have to make the show stand on its own. The books only get more of the very things that television can't necessarily translate as they progress. The show runners are trying to tell their version of the story, but they have to create some sort of freedom for themselves as they go along. Trying to stay nearly 1:1 with an entirely different (and considerably denser) medium would be terrible.

Heck, it might even come to pass that the book situation isn't completely worked out as they get further down the line. Or, alternately, that the show has to find some sort of closure before the books do.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Anyone else frightfully disappointed with season 2 so far? I'd like to hear from people who haven't read the books as to what they think about what has been happening and what they think is going on. Personally I have read the books and I have a very low opinion of the way that this season has been portrayed and represented thus far. Reason being: DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS The portrayal of the characters is completely bogus, all of them... ALL OF THEM have been mis-represented like sissy's and nancy's and none of the defining moments and elements of their characters developments from the books have been shown in the show and therefore, the character's just seem boring and undeveloped. I want to know what the people who have no read the books think of this because personally if I had not read the books I probably might be satisfied, but having read them I'm almost disgusted by the lack of portrayal of Arya's development, and unless I remember incorrectly she DID NOT escape from the castle while the Lannister's held it, unless I remember incorrectly and they got away and were re-captured... I vaguely remember that being the case, but I feel like I'm making it up in my mind to justify them coming back to the castle while the Mummers hold it. There has been none of Arya practicing her dancing in the trees at night, all the fuck she has done is poor drinks for Tywin which is just ridiculously stupid and has not at all helped to show her development into the hard-arse that she's supposed to develop into. Dany has become a whiny whingy crappy dare I say "crazy" Targaryen bent on the Iron throne like her brother which is not how I felt it was in the books, she wanted to get back to Westeros of course, but everything she did in Qarth was not bent on that one thing and they've left out all of the other cool happenings. I'm looking forward to the scene in the House of the Undying but I'm afraid that it's going to be frightfully disappointing by my reckoning based on the way things have been going so far. To me, it's like the series has been created FOR book readers and to 'fill in the gaps' for people who have read the books. It's like they have decided to show only the main stay plot points that were the focus of the books, and EVERYTHING that wasn't. If you see what I mean? I suppose all of those things that I'm describing could be happening when the viewer isn't watching the characters, but it's just making the whole thing into a WTF is going on affair on most counts. I am absolutely bedazzled that the Blackwater chain has not been mentioned or described at all yet and if it just magically is there I will be pissed beyond reckoning, the whole thing to me just feels like such a mess. I'm enjoying watching it for sure, but I'm bored while watching it, there are so many wasteful scenes, so many scenes where time is wasted on pointless bullshit. What the fuck was that shit with Littlefinger and the whore where he threatened her not to cry? Pointless and not needed, okay it shows the ruthlessness and cunning of Littlefinger, but COME ON, I almost think that once again we're not going to get to see ANY fighting or battle scenes and if they don't have a crazy huge battle scene for the Blackwater attack I might almost give up on the TV show. AND Jaime has been let go already? HUH? WTF? That's 4th book shit, wtf is going on? They are super speeding the story or something, I just don't get it - everything is all wrong, I guess they must be changing up the story heaps and perhaps they're preparing to go in a totally different direction than the books because they realise that the books won't be finished in time for the seasons to continue each year. Where are the frog kids? Where is Ghost? Jon's wolf is strangely missing all of a sudden. Why didn't they let us at least see Stormsend? Everything north of the wall so far has been pathetic. The wildlings don't look like wildlings aught to. I'm just having a big whinge because I'm not enjoying it as much as I wish I was. I hope the reason that it's like this is because that they've saved their budget for the last couple of episodes... I'm hoping that's the case because there are some really big and important things to happen still, so lets hope so!

You do realize that this is an adaptation, right?

[Speevy]

What I accidentally learned two days ago is how this battle goes, so don't read the following.

In a book, a character can lose battles, go fight other battles, lose those battles, meet other characters, just go on living life. But in a television series, people want to see a meaningful and dramatic conclusion to something that's been so built up. And has HBO ever built this up. So I'm just wondering where the show takes the Stannis character from here.

[Massa]

I don't think it's a stretch to say that non-book readers are enjoying the show overall. I read the other thread a lot and it's about 90% positive. I think for book readers the problem is that it's never going to live up to the source material. The books are huge and packed with details...the show runners have to pick out just a few to put in the show and then elide/rewrite/make up scenes to quickly convey info that might have happend over several chapters in the book. For example, the scene with Littlefinger and Ros, non-book reader thinks "hmmm this guy is pretty ruthless I wonder what he has up his sleeve" while book reader thinks "wtf this has nothing to do with anything ahhhh" since we know it doesn't really lead to anywhere specific. But what it does is give some insight into Littlefingers character that we get over the course of many chapters in the book. What I do is just try to let go, enjoy it for what it is and focus on the scenes that are well adapted. For example at the end of ep 7 the Jaime/Cat scene and the Theon scene were so well done I had tears in my eyes. Its just awesome seeing those iconic scenes brought so brilliantly to life. I wanted to fucking kill Jaime when he started talking about Ned...it's one thing to read that speech and another to hear this slimeball say it...that's the kind of thing tv can do well.

Nailed it on all accounts.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

What I accidentally learned two days ago is how this battle goes, so don't read the following. In a book, a character can lose battles, go fight other battles, lose those battles, meet other characters, just go on living life. But in a television series, people want to see a meaningful and dramatic conclusion to something that's been so built up. And has HBO ever built this up. So I'm just wondering where the show takes the Stannis character from here.

I'm honestly wondering if they are going to kill Joffrey in a MUUUUUUCH different way than in the books.

[Speevy]

I'm honestly wondering if they are going to kill Joffrey in a MUUUUUUCH different way than in the books.

I think They'll probably kill Joffrey in the same way, but it will be clearly Tyrion's doing. I hate Natalie Dormer and I can't see Joffrey marrying her even in an arrangement, but who knows?

[Andvary]

I'm still truly baffled as to why they invent stuff just for the show, when there is more than enough stuff from the book to include (better stuff).

My girlfriend was telling me the same thing today.

And yes, I'm very disappointed with the show. :(

[apana]

I'm still truly baffled as to why they invent stuff just for the show, when there is more than enough stuff from the book to include (better stuff). Why do more work for yourselves? Like I truly want to ask them this question so I can understand. I can't wrap my head around it. I'm not even whining or yelling at then, I am genuinely curious as to the reasoning for this. Do they think that perhaps they know better? As in they know what's better for a show. Like I said, overall I don't care because I just look to be entertained, and I am being plenty entertained, but that bugs me in the back of my mind every time it happens.

Ironically David and Dan said it best through the character of Jaime, young men tend to overdo their jobs. David and Dan are young compared to George.

[PhoenixPause]

I'm fine with inventing (good) storylines for the show. I'm not fine with putting multiple characters in a holding pattern and stalling things out - which is basically what has happened with Jon, Dany, Robb, and Arya to a lesser extent. Dany's dragons were stolen what, two episodes ago? Most of her khalasar was murdered, she knows who did it too. And yet she's casually walking around Qarth like nothing happened, and demanding Jorah...pull out a magic wand and return her dragons.

Jon walks around the wilderness with Ygritte for an episode and a half, and somehow Quorin cannot find him. despite being able to see wildlings miles away through a snow storm. Robb hangs around at camp talking with Talisa, and doesn't seem to be planning much of anything; he has yet to react to the Renly news, doesn't seem to know Stannis is about to attack King's Landing, doesn't seem to be planning much for the Lannisters, etc. Meanwhile Arya has been happily serving uncle Tywin for half the season; I like the scenes, but a lot of good stuff was cut to have a bunch of dialogue scenes between them that bleed together.

I don't want to be "That Book Guy" who complains about every little thing, I just ask: how many of these changes improve or exceed the storylines from the novel? Is Jon walking through the snow with Ygritte better television than him and Quorin hunting and being hunted by wildlings? Is Arya's summer internship with Tywin better television than her horrific Harenhel experience in the novel?

[Speevy]

Arya's death genie is an interesting thing they left in the show.

Now any sane person would say Joffrey, having just seen her father ordered to die at his bidding.

She chooses the man who tortures everyone, the person who caught her stupidly running around with a raven's note as though it was the solution to the war of the five kings, and the man who's been helping her.

Frankly, if I had been Jaquen, I would have killed her for being so stupid, or at least taken away her last wish.

[eravulgaris]

So how was the episode this week guys, any good?

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

Rewatched the episode and enjoyed it a lot more. The scene between Tyrion and Varys was great. I hope there are more interactions between the two.

Im curious about Jaiquin (?Aryas Death dealer) and whether or not he is a recurring character that shows up again.


Unname me! Please.

[Socreges]

Rewatched the episode and enjoyed it a lot more. The scene between Tyrion and Varys was great. I hope there are more interactions between the two. Im curious about Jaiquin (?Aryas Death dealer) and whether or not he is a recurring character that shows up again. Unname me! Please.

Please, no one answer this without spoiler tags.

[Pkaz01]

Arya's death genie is an interesting thing they left in the show. Now any sane person would say Joffrey, having just seen her father ordered to die at his bidding. She chooses the man who tortures everyone, the person who caught her stupidly running around with a raven's note as though it was the solution to the war of the five kings, and the man who's been helping her. Frankly, if I had been Jaquen, I would have killed her for being so stupid, or at least taken away her last wish.

So you'd tell a random guy in a lannister outfit to kill his king? and then when the guy leaves and never comes back what would she do?

[Angry Grimace]

For the question of why she doesn't just name Cersei, Tywin and Joffrey.

As stated above, Joffrey and Cersei aren't anywhere near where Jaqen and Arya are, so she'd lose the ability to have Jaqen's help if she picked them.

As for Tywin, I think it makes sense she doesn't name Tywin immediately; first, he's showing himself in the series to be at least someone human, so I think she feels less threatened by him than she does by other, more savage characters, and second, Tywin basically saved her from being killed and raped by the Mountain's cronies. I don't think Tywin's death would improve her current situation until she escaped.

[TCRS]

For example at the end of ep 7 the Jaime/Cat scene and the Theon scene were so well done I had tears in my eyes.

Still my favourite scene this season. Nikolaj was perfect here. Ep7 was simply brilliant, all those dialogues.

[theignoramus]

I dont like the direction they went with jaime in episode 7. (SOS spoiler) how is any non reader supposed to feel anything but utter contempt for this guy now?

before episode 7, the moral difference between him and say, Robert Baratheon, wasnt so steep. I mean, apart from Lannister's incest, what's he done that King Robert hasnt? They both made attempts on children's lives, the only difference is Jaime is unrepentant about it.
(book 1 spoiler) (and in the books the moral gap is even smaller. Robert calls the corpses of rhaegar targaryen's children dragonspawn and shrugs his shoulders at their murders.)

[Maffis]

I dont like the direction they went with jaime in episode 7. (SOS spoiler) how is any non reader supposed to feel anything but utter contempt for this guy now? before episode 7, the moral difference between him and say, Robert Baratheon, wasnt so steep. I mean, apart from Lannister's incest, what's he done that King Robert hasnt? They both made attempts on children's lives, the only difference is Jaime is unrepentant about it. (book 1 spoiler) (and in the books the moral gap is even smaller. Robert calls the corpses of rhaegar targaryen's children dragonspawn and shrugs his shoulders at their murders.)

you are indirectly spoiling people even when you have marked them talking about future books about a certain character is spoilers because that means he's still alive

[EatChildren]

I don't think it's a stretch to say that non-book readers are enjoying the show overall. I read the other thread a lot and it's about 90% positive. I think for book readers the problem is that it's never going to live up to the source material. The books are huge and packed with details...the show runners have to pick out just a few to put in the show and then elide/rewrite/make up scenes to quickly convey info that might have happend over several chapters in the book. For example, the scene with Littlefinger and Ros, non-book reader thinks "hmmm this guy is pretty ruthless I wonder what he has up his sleeve" while book reader thinks "wtf this has nothing to do with anything ahhhh" since we know it doesn't really lead to anywhere specific. But what it does is give some insight into Littlefingers character that we get over the course of many chapters in the book. What I do is just try to let go, enjoy it for what it is and focus on the scenes that are well adapted. For example at the end of ep 7 the Jaime/Cat scene and the Theon scene were so well done I had tears in my eyes. Its just awesome seeing those iconic scenes brought so brilliantly to life. I wanted to fucking kill Jaime when he started talking about Ned...it's one thing to read that speech and another to hear this slimeball say it...that's the kind of thing tv can do well.

I haven't read the books, but as someone who has been in that position with other adaptations, this is basically all true.

Fact of the matter is book lovers will rarely, if ever, see truly faithful and accurate adaptations of the source material. It's not possible. It isn't. Stuff will always be cut. New scenes will always be created. Revisions will be made. This has to happen as the mediums of film and television tell stories very, very differently to literature. They're not interchangeable without overhauling the way the story is told.

As a non-book reader I'm not happy with everything in season two (meandering, Robb love bullshit, dumb Snow), but by and large it's still very good. A lot of the scenes book readers complain about I see as valuable, as they give insight into characters and pace the story accordingly.

[Lothar]

Not to pile on the criticism, but I don't see how anyone who liked Arya in the books can be happy with the way her story has gone. The show creators took out almost all of her hardships and opportunities to show off her bravery.

Where is this Arya?

All of a sudden, Arya knew why her feet had brought her here. “You have to help me get them out.” Gendry laughed. “And how do we do that?” “Ser Amory sent them down to the dungeon. The one under the Widow’s Tower, that’s just one big cell. You could smash the door open with your hammer-“ “While the guards watch and make bets on how many swings it will take me, maybe?” Arya chewed her lips. “We’d need to kill the guards.” “How are we supposed to do that?” “Maybe there won’t be a lot of them.”

"We'd need to kill the guards." She's nowhere to be found. If they didn't want to have her try to rescue prisoners with weasel soup, then please come up with something equally courageous for her to do. Don't have her just stroll out of Harranhal.

Where is the heart and emotion in her story? How can they not have her yelling at the tree her people worship for not saving her father?

Maybe she should pray aloud if she wanted the old gods to hear. Maybe she should pray longer. Sometimes her father had prayed a long time, she remembered. But the old gods had never helped him. Remembering that made her angry. “You should have saved him,” she scolded the tree. “He prayed to you all the time. I don’t care if you help me or not. I don’t think you could even if you wanted to.” “Gods are not mocked, girl.” The voice startled her. She leapt to her feet and drew her wooden sword. Jaqen H’ghar stood so still in the darkness that he seemed one of the trees. “A man comes to hear a name. One and two and then comes three. A man would have done.”

I did like the last episode for the most part but they've done a few things so far that are just inexcusable.
-Watering down Arya's character.
-Ruining the surprise of Bran and Rickon not really being dead.
-Making Dany totally unlikeable and having her yell at the time. (In Clash of the Kings, she never raises her voice even once!)
-Taking the drama out of Catelyn's and Robb's stories by not having Robb and Catelyn do the things they did in this episode because they're crazy with grief after finding out Bran and Rickon died.
-Not focusing more on the war on previous episodes. What sense does it make for Tyrion to only now start preparing when Stannis is two days away?
-Having the series be so slow and uneventful thus far. The House of Dying should have already happened. They've pushed it back to the finale. It's making her story incredibly dragged out. I think even non-book readers are annoyed at how long it's taking for things to happen. And they shouldn't be because the House of Dying should have already happened. Arya rescuing the prisoners was something that was eventful but was scrapped.

[Emerson]

I haven't read the books, but as someone who has been in that position with other adaptations, this is basically all true. Fact of the matter is book lovers will rarely, if ever, see truly faithful and accurate adaptations of the source material. It's not possible. It isn't. Stuff will always be cut. New scenes will always be created. Revisions will be made. This has to happen as the mediums of film and television tell stories very, very differently to literature. They're not interchangeable without overhauling the way the story is told. As a non-book reader I'm not happy with everything in season two (meandering, Robb love bullshit, dumb Snow), but by and large it's still very good. A lot of the scenes book readers complain about I see as valuable, as they give insight into characters and pace the story accordingly.

This is, essentially, what I've been trying to get across all along in this thread. There are definitely a few issues with this show, but it is only book readers who I've seen try to characterize it as a bad show. Almost everyone else thinks it's somewhere between good and great.

[Lothar]

This is, essentially, what I've been trying to get across all along in this thread. There are definitely a few issues with this show, but it is only book readers who I've seen try to characterize it as a bad show. Almost everyone else thinks it's somewhere between good and great.

They're not complaining because they don't know how great it could be. Even with all the complaints I have, I think the show is good. I haven't really seen that many people say it's a bad show. Episode 7 was a bad episode but that was out of the ordinary.

[Emerson]

They're not complaining because they don't know how great it could be. Even with all the complaints I have, I think the show is good. I haven't really seen that many people say it's a bad show. Episode 7 was a bad episode but that was out of the ordinary.

Right, and that there gets directly to the heart of comparing this show to the books even when people claim they're not. It could indeed be better (and I think it will be the next 2 seasons) but there's still, IMO, more good than bad and the discussion here really does not reflect that.

[aceface]

TV Arya knew all the guards would have to be killed for her escape. She didn't herself kill a guard like in the book but that could still be coming up (see last episode title).

TV Arya went through some bad things in Harrenhall, look at the torturing she had to witness. Also all those Lannister guardsmen are being executed because of her, because she wanted to save her own skin.

I think TV Arya's banter with Tywin shows the scars from losing her father etc, not as good as some of that dialogue posted above, but it's serviceable.

Now the criticisms about TV Robb I can get behind.

[gutshot]

Simple, TV Quorin is an idiot.

Yeah, pretty much. Not a fan of what they've done with Jon/Qhorin.

[Limedust]

1000+ page book being reduced to ~10 hours of show time = things get cut and modified. If this was a 26 episode season then most of the complaints would be valid.