[Dacvak]

That's a huge bummer. I have friends at BHG. One of them even left a very big position at another large and well-liked developer to be at BHG. Really sucks for them.

[element]

Wait.. is that it for kingdom? No dlc? No mmo?

everything is dead. Anything future for KOA is totally dead as BigHuge Games will close. 38 Studios remains 'open', but really only open in a legal sense, there is no development staff.

[FieryBalrog]

That's my issue, too. To be clear, I absolutely hate 99.99 percent of his views. Ultimately though, I bought in to his passion for the genre, the world he was creating and deep down he seems like a good dude. I don't know, maybe he fucked everyone over. I get the feeling he didn't though, and while everyone is poking and prodding him to be the loud mouth Curt we all see in the spotlight, there are a handful of people making damn sure he doesn't say something stupid. We'll find out inevitably. Damn near 400 people lost their job -- they're already chattering and it's only going to get worse.

The employees seem to have loved their jobs and be on board with Curt, which is heartening.

[thcsquad]

The Boston game industry is actually quite small, when you compare it to SoCal, Austin, Seattle, or Vancouver. You pretty much listed all those that have money. Turbine being the largest and best funded (owned by WB). Irrational is ramping up to finish Bioshock Infinite, but will probably have staff reduction after it has gone gold. Harmonix has spots, but doesn't have the same funding they had two years ago. After that you are going into much smaller companies with limited funding security.

There are bigger markets, sure, but the post I responded to claimed that all of them would have to move to find new jobs, which clearly isn't true. You pretty much listed all of the other North American cities with game industries larger than Boston, save San Francisco and maybe Montreal.

[element]

There are bigger markets, sure, but the post I responded to claimed that all of them would have to move to find new jobs, which clearly isn't true. You pretty much listed all of the other North American cities with game industries larger than Boston, save San Francisco and maybe Montreal.

Dallas as well. Boston is really small. I lived and worked there for two years. It is very small. It was hit hard by the problems at Harmonix, which was over 300 people at one point. The area also isn't very diverse. You have a FPS developer, a music developer, a MMO company, and some social developers. You lose your gig, you are going to have a difficult time finding something where your skills are applicable.

[shaowebb]

They may not all have to move as I stated with that in the area, but as others have stated jobs are based on demand and filling jobs for nearly 400 employees across an area like that with studios that are going to have only so many openings if any available will be harsh. A lot will end up having to move over this.

This is going to hurt.

[thepotatoman]

Interplay fired all of its employees back around '04 or so, and spent several years with no staff, and technically still existed throughout that period... it can happen.

I suppose its technically possible for 38 to exist as some sort of licensing firm for Amular and all of it's assets, but somehow I doubt that would be enough to pay the loan bills.

[border]

God from what guys are saying over on that board it looks like Curt is going to lose about everything over this. If they're right I really worry for his family. He has an autistic son.

The guy is always going to have work. I wouldn't cry much for him. He may end up in local TV ads for Boston car dealerships, but he's gonna be getting a paycheck from somewhere. He help the Red Sox end the Curse of the Bambino -- people in that town will probably line up to give him money (well, so long as he isn't asking anyone to invest in an MMO).

Supposedly his career earnings with the Red Sox were over 100 million, so I am a little confused why all the outside funding was needed. If he actually blew 175 million dollars on Copernicus, I'd be quite surprised.

For all those of us who have come home to a girlfriend who was pissed that we blew $60 on a videogame.....imagine coming home to a wife after you blew 100 million on trying to make a videogame.

[coopolon]

Salvatory got like 1.5 million, so yeah I wouldnt be complaining either.

The way he is wording it it sounds like he hasn't gotten anything yet. I suppose he could be lying, but I don't know why he would. He's not on the hook for any of this.

I feel bad for Big Huge Games. They had one of the best debiuts of all time, but after that they never came even remotely close to this level.

You bet they did, when they released Rise of Nations in 2003.

It's crappy for everyone, but it must be particularly crappy for BHG. They get bought by 38, make a fantastic RPG based on new IP that apparently sells reasonably well, and get fired anyway.

I've heard from a birdie they had a couple potential publishers that would have given them additional funding(which was probably always the plan) but when the governor leaked the late payment to the press the publishers bailed and here we are

It's impossible to know the validity of this rumor and it's probably not true, but holy shit, if true whoever leaked the story may have cost the citizens of RI how many millions of dollars? It's probably just people at 38 looking to shift blame though.

[border]

Is there anybody that doesn't doubt this game would have crashed and burned even if it had gotten made?

This is far from a good ending, but at least this way the staff can lament and daydream about the awesome game they ALMOST got to make. Otherwise it would just be bitter memories of the awesome game they made that got a lukewarm response, had to have server mergers, and ultimately had to switch to a chintzy Free 2 Play model just so they could eke out a living and repay their insane debt.

I suspect part of the reason they could never pick up a publisher was because of all the recent high-profile IPs that flopped as MMOs (Warhammer, Star Trek, DC Universe, Star Wars). If those dudes couldn't hack it, what chance does a new IP have?

[panda21]

:( i really like Kamalur :((

[Fabrik]

Expected. How were they supposed to survive by developing niche games?

[Proposed Law]

So...Who gets my money if I buy a Steam copy now?

[FyreWulff]

Grant Kirkhope can't catch a break

[remnant]

Is there anybody that doesn't doubt this game would have crashed and burned even if it had gotten made? This is far from a good ending, but at least this way the staff can lament and daydream about the awesome game they ALMOST got to make. Otherwise it would just be bitter memories of the awesome game they made that got a lukewarm response, had to have server mergers, and ultimately had to switch to a chintzy Free 2 Play model just so they could eke out a living and repay their insane debt.

How is this a worse scenario?

[Ghost]

Oh man this is terrible news, best of luck to everyone who lost their jobs.


With the quality of people they managed to attract I really couldn't see this happening so quickly. To balance the fate of what had become a huge company on the back of one console game though, especially considering what they had and when they tried to launch it...just crazy.

[Shotgun Kiss]

Grant Kirkhope can't catch a break

I only just heard about this through Grant Kirkhope's Facebook status.

I really feel bad for him; he jumped ship from Rare when it was clear they were going down the shitter (the last game he worked on, Viva Pinata: Trouble in Paradise in 2008, is the last good noteworthy game they've made), and now this happens.

Hopefully he finds work again soon. I'd particularly like to see him join Retro.

[mattiewheels]

Has Moorgard's tweet been posted? If not, here it is: "Media: Follow the money. Watch who profits from this and you'll find a trail of power, corruption, and lies."

Damn good album.

[Jive Turkey]

That's what I was figuring. Be smart RI and sell Amalur for like $5 this summer!

[Haunted]

:/

A development schedule that necessitates a huge breakout hit to keep the company afloat is not healthy. Seems like the MMO was more costly than it should have been.

[quartet4]

Sad news. I enjoyed KOA: Reckoning a whole lot and think it carved out its own territory despite debuting in-between Skyrim and Diablo 3. Best of luck to the BHG employees.

[Patryn]

I still doubt anyone will want to buy the Amalur IP. There's only been one game released that was praised more for its mechanics and gameplay ideas than its lore.

I think someone earlier nailed it: The assets will be sold to a Chinese or Korean MMO company, and it'll be stripped down to a micro-transaction based F2P MMO that is a shadow of whatever it is now.

I'll be curious to see how many times this gets used as a textbook case of mismanagement, though. You don't see many flameouts like this.

[NervousXtian]

The guy is always going to have work. I wouldn't cry much for him. He may end up in local TV ads for Boston car dealerships, but he's gonna be getting a paycheck from somewhere. He help the Red Sox end the Curse of the Bambino -- people in that town will probably line up to give him money (well, so long as he isn't asking anyone to invest in an MMO). Supposedly his career earnings with the Red Sox were over 100 million, so I am a little confused why all the outside funding was needed. If he actually blew 175 million dollars on Copernicus, I'd be quite surprised. For all those of us who have come home to a girlfriend who was pissed that we blew $60 on a videogame.....imagine coming home to a wife after you blew 100 million on trying to make a videogame.

Taxes, how do they work?

[jcm]

God from what guys are saying over on that board it looks like Curt is going to lose about everything over this. If they're right I really worry for his family. He has an autistic son.

Gee, I hope the multi-millionaire athlete can still buy his groceries. 400 middle-class people haven't been paid for a month and don't have health insurance, and you're worried about the family of a guy who can write his name on a baseball an sell it for $100?

[Nista]

As I understand it, the company still exists. It just fired its employees. I may be in error.

The former employees are not eligible for COBRA. The health plan has been canceled.

This is another reason we need better options for health care in the US. Having your health insurance taken away at a moment's notice through no fault of your own is really terrible. And then on top of that having to find a new job and relocate, it's a lot of stress.

[Frostburn]

Wow seems like all those employees might just be pawns in something worse than just layoffs. Terrible news for all those affected, I really had high hopes for the studio after playing KoA... seemed like they were on the right track for sure.

[Animation-Imp]

Damn just bought the game...
It's a bad couple of years for big projects.
Devs dropping like flies here and there.

[MMaRsu]

Dam n no amalur patch:(

[diffusionx]

Taxes, how do they work?

I wouldn't be surprised if Curt Schilling is worth more than $100 million today. Yes he paid taxes. However he also made investments with his income. When you have millions of dollars, it's pretty easy to turn that into even more money.

That doesn't mean that Curt was obligated to fund 38 Studios, of course not. I do think the way he treated his employees, though (not paying them for almost a month of work, canceling their health insurance like that), was deeply immoral.

[Xiaoki]

Should have just skipped Kingdoms of Amalur and Big Huge Games and put everything into Copernicus and 38 Studios.

If they had launched Copernicus it would be pulling in some money because of monthly subscriptions. Probably not enough subscriptions to be the next WoW but likely enough to keep the game running and keep people out of the unemployment line.

[dankir]

Didn't we just see pics of the Copernicus from them like 2 days ago?

[Shatner's Bassoon]

Didn't we just see pics of the Copernicus from them like 2 days ago?

Death rattle.

[Patryn]

Didn't we just see pics of the Copernicus from them like 2 days ago?

Either a leak from someone who saw the writing on the wall and wanted the world to see something, anything to prove that they weren't just twiddling their thumbs there, or a last-ditch Hail Mary in an attempt to draw some investor attention and get much needed money.

[element]

Should have just skipped Kingdoms of Amalur and Big Huge Games and put everything into Copernicus and 38 Studios. If they had launched Copernicus it would be pulling in some money because of monthly subscriptions. Probably not enough subscriptions to be the next WoW but likely enough to keep the game running and keep people out of the unemployment line.

Highly doubtful. Star Wars can't hold users, so Copernicus probably wouldn't fair that that well either. The investment in KOA and Big Huge Games had little if anything to do with the fall of 38 Studios.

[animlboogy]

Too bad they didn't go the Runic route with the Amalur IP. They were onto something, even if Amalur wasn't there yet.

[Patryn]

Too bad they didn't go the Runic route with the Amalur IP. They were onto something, even if Amalur wasn't there yet.

If nothing else, all this makes Runic seem like geniuses. Their gameplan of starting small, creating a following and slowly building to a potential MMO was great. Notice that didn't involve going on a massive hiring spree and becoming way too big way too fast.

[FieryBalrog]

If nothing else, all this makes Runic seem like geniuses. Their gameplan of starting small, creating a following and slowly building to a potential MMO was great. Notice that didn't involve going on a massive hiring spree and becoming way too big way too fast.

You know how runic came to that realization, right? Experience is hard won...

[NervousXtian]

I wouldn't be surprised if Curt Schilling is worth more than $100 million today. Yes he paid taxes. However he also made investments with his income. When you have millions of dollars, it's pretty easy to turn that into even more money. That doesn't mean that Curt was obligated to fund 38 Studios, of course not. I do think the way he treated his employees, though (not paying them for almost a month of work, canceling their health insurance like that), was deeply immoral.

That's speculation.

Take that 110 million, 4% - 6% went to his agent, 35% to taxes. So in a sense he might have seen just over $60million of that $110. We have no clue how well his investments have paid off in the long haul, well, outside of this one which allegedly dropped at least $30m.

He's probably still has some cash on hand, but to think he was able to turn that original 60m into over 110m is a stretch. Also to think he had the money to fund this whole project on his own with cash is asinine. It's not like he had that $60 odd million just sitting in an account somewhere.

[Patryn]

You know how runic came to that realization, right? Experience is hard won... [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/eb/Hellgate_London.jpg[img]

Ironically, it's Flagship's demise that most reminds me of how 38 is going out. I seem to recall Flagship was also saying everything was rosy in the face of a lot of bad news surrounding them up until the last minute when it just died.

[Shiggy]

Either a leak from someone who saw the writing on the wall and wanted the world to see something, anything to prove that they weren't just twiddling their thumbs there, or a last-ditch Hail Mary in an attempt to draw some investor attention and get much needed money.

It was on the official YT account, wasn't it? So probably the latter.

[Patryn]

It was on the official YT account, wasn't it? So probably the latter.

The video was officially released. I thought we were talking about the screenshots that actually showed the characters/art styles.

[brumx]

90% of athletes dont know crap about money and never will.

[border]

He's probably still has some cash on hand, but to think he was able to turn that original 60m into over 110m is a stretch. Also to think he had the money to fund this whole project on his own with cash is asinine. It's not like he had that $60 odd million just sitting in an account somewhere.

Even if he had just $30 million or $50 million, did he really need another 75M from Rhode Island? The game's budget was supposed to be in excess of 100-125M? This seems like a pretty textbook case of biting off way more than you can chew.

I suppose you could make the argument that no publisher would be stupid enough to give a first-time developer with a new IP that much money, but I don't see how it really justifies bamboozling an ignorant state government.

This should be a nice lesson for everyone who is all rainbows-and-sunshine about Kickstarter. Giving creative people a sack full of money with no oversight can sometimes turn out wonderful things, and sometimes it can crash and burn hard.

[Fine Ham Abounds]

This is sorta like hearing something third or fourthhand, but here are some puported quotes from employees taken from the FoH board:

I blame Rhode Island and the federal government on this one. Rhode Island held back money that was due and the federal government held back the tax rebates. There's 50+ million in cash money that they couldn't get because of bullshit. The reason EA will not pay on time is because they have not received their check yet from Steam. Steam takes 5+ months to pay as they wait for the revenue to come in from the credit card companies that take 3+ months to pay at times. It's a circle jerk of money and EA won't put up until they get their share and then let it sit to make some interest off it.

Another post countered that point, saying this is bullshit and nothing but making excuses for mismanagement, and that Curt et al knew damn well that this was how things were going to work and still chose to string people along until this week:

Our medical insurance runs out tonight at midnight. We found this out when an employee's pregnant wife was told by her doctor, this was on Tuesday 22nd May this week.

Curt Schilling can go fuck himself. The company knew for months it would run out of cash and said nothing. Half of the people with relocation homes are fucked. The company said they would buy the house out and instead took over the mortgage and tried to sell it. Since for half the people that didn't work, they are stuck with mortgage that hasn't been paid and have been taking credit hits. Oh yeah and my friend got the phone call explaining all this Wed night.

I was just told I would lose my job and along with that, my house since they said they were going to cover that, in a fucking EMAIL.

As usual, most of the rest of the posts are too crude to post here.

[Shiggy]

The video was officially released. I thought we were talking about the screenshots that actually showed the characters/art styles.

Thought those were a joint release, but apparently that's not the case ;)

[bill0527]

This is going to hurt.

Maybe not as bad as you think.

If you're smart enough to work in that industry, then hopefully you're smart enough to realize that unless you work at Valve, or Blizzard, or a small handful of studios, you will have to be mobile and don't plan on putting any roots down at your current place of employment.

Its just one of those crazy industries, like broadcasting, where you'll probably work in a dozen different cities your entire career if you stick with it.

I'd say that if you don't like being uprooted, displaced, and moved around at a moment's notice, then don't get into the gaming industry.

[Hari Seldon]

This is sorta like hearing something third or fourthhand, but here are some puported quotes from employees taken from the FoH board:

God damn that is terrible. Hopefully they can get some of their owed money in a lawsuit.

[scitek]

Maybe not as bad as you think. If you're smart enough to work in that industry, then hopefully you're smart enough to realize that unless you work at Valve, or Blizzard, or a small handful of studios, you will have to be mobile and don't plan on putting any roots down at your current place of employment. Its just one of those crazy industries, like broadcasting, where you'll probably work in a dozen different cities your entire career if you stick with it. I'd say that if you don't like being uprooted, displaced, and moved around at a moment's notice, then don't get into the gaming industry.

Yup, I'm going through school right now for TV/film production, and am fully expecting to have to move around once the market dries up here in the Atlanta, GA area. It's a moving target.

[semiconscious]

90% of the population dont know crap about money and never will.

fixed :) ...

wanna find yourself surrounded by vultures? that'll tell you how wonderful you are, & how hard they're gonna work on protecting you, & making your money grow, & how they have only your best interests at heart? become a millionaire...

[INDIGO_CYCLOPS]

I honestly didn't enjoy KOA all that much from what I played; however this whole situation is fucked up, messy and a shocker. Really hope the people really affected by this make it back in one piece. The whole financial situation is extremely shady to me...