[quadriplegicjon]

I don't believe in this poll. I think this is just a bounce that will dissipate.

It's consistent with other recent polls.

[ivysaur12]

Why are folks sweating black people? Maryland came around, let's keep it moving. The biggest obstacle to gay equality isn't black people! LMAO!?! Pun intended?

It's because there's a potential referendum in November in Maryland.

I don't believe in this poll. I think this is just a bounce that will dissipate.

It's entirely consistent with other recent polls. In fact, PPP is one of the best pollers on gay marriage. The poll the question more than anyone else, and are usually between 1-2% of the final vote. They're uncannily good on this issue.

[Sho_Nuff82]

the prediction was that Obama would lose votes in the black community because we're so ferociously homophobic. I read the threads.

Am I allowed to say that I'm very proud this was proven wrong?

The previous thread about the Maryland statistics

I suggested that the change was going to have to come from up top - black community leaders and celebrities would have to be outspoken about saying it was okay before you would see any widespread opinion changes. I never imagined that the President would be the first to do so, and I never imagined it would snowball this fast.

In a worst case scenario, Obama could have been left on an island. Jay's support and the NAACP especially carry a lot of weight to young and older blacks, respectively.

[ToxicAdam]

It's entirely consistent with other recent polls. In fact, PPP is one of the best pollers on gay marriage. The poll the question more than anyone else, and are usually between 1-2% of the final vote. They're uncannily good on this issue.

PPP is a partisan polling outfit. They also poll extensively at the state level, which very few polling places do (especially on social issues). So, they are going to selectively release information to further their overall cause or help build a narrative. No one else (like Quinnipiac) is going to either, since they won't waste the time and resources to even poll about it. Even other partisan polling places like Rassmussen do not seem very interested in doing this kind of thing.

That's not to say their information is incorrect. But, it's to point out that if Black support for gay marriage actually went DOWN in other states, they are never going to release it.


They are not the gold standard of polling like Pew or (to a lesser extent) Gallup is.

[Korey]

Gaborn is a gay person who voted for the guy who wrote the law that bans gay marriage in America to be President of the United States.

So, yea.

He justifies it by saying the dude later changed his mind and said sorry, or something. So there's just like, incomprehensible levels of irony there.

[IrrelevantNotch]

Gaborn is a gay person who voted for the guy who wrote the law that bans gay marriage in America to be President of the United States. So, yea. He justifies it by saying the dude later changed his mind and said sorry. So there's just like, incomprehensible amounts of irony on multiple levels there.

Too little, too late

[CHEEZMO™]

Gaborn is a gay person who voted for the guy who wrote the law that bans gay marriage in America to be President of the United States. So, yea.

Again? that would imply that I voted for the President the first time. I went for Bob Barr. Ah, I see. You had no problem voting for a hypocrite as long as he flip-flopped to your position. Cute how you managed to overcome Barr's past political ideologies. I mean, fuck, you voted for the guy the authored and sponsored the Defense of Marriage Act . Shit, I won't even go into Barr's voting record on the Patriot Act, War in Iraq, his prohibition stance on marijuana, and the fact that he supports the 16th amendment. How big of a hypocrite can you fucking be?

[commedieu]

You officially baffle me Gaborn. It's like you hate the fact that Obama did this and will use any opportunity to demonize him for doing so.....and yet you support Ron Paul.

I came to this very thread to ctrl-f Gaborn and see how he will spin this into a negative.

Gaborn, comparing him to his past, as a politician, is just sophomoric. You know those guys lie, and they lie for a living. Obama is no different. Fact is that you have the first president of the USA openly supporting gay marriage, and its having a domino effect. Sure, it might not be the one you want to hold him accountable for. But it is more progress than Ron Paul, or any republican, would ever do in your lifetime. (Edit; especially the ones that wrote the defense of marriage act that you voted for, seriously dude?)

It still baffles me that instead of just being happy, you're concerned about the past. As if anything could change it. People make mistakes, but Obama has made up for them more than most man can.

I know you want to stick to your too little too late attitude, but its really coming off as just disdain at this point.

[diddles]

if Obama jumped off a bridge, would an extra 36% of blacks follow him?

[IrrelevantNotch]

if Obama jumped off a bridge, would an extra 36% of blacks follow him?

Ohhhhhhh, ice cold burn. What do you have to say to that, blacks?

[Bel Marduk]

Gaborn is a gay person who voted for the guy who wrote the law that bans gay marriage in America to be President of the United States. So, yea. He justifies it by saying the dude later changed his mind and said sorry, or something. So there's just like, incomprehensible levels of irony there.

but.. but.. Bill Clinton now supports gay marriage.. after he's been out of office for 12 years. Talk about "too little, too late."

[MWS Natural]

Gaborn is a gay person who voted for the guy who wrote the law that bans gay marriage in America to be President of the United States.

[ivysaur12]

But guys Barr was never for civil unions so he's not a hypocrite.

[PhoenixPause]

so perhaps if he had evolved one month earlier we might have seen a similar shift in North Carolina when it would have mattered?

And if he did you would have wondered why Obama didn't come out in favor of gay marriage in 08 to combat Proposition 8. Too little, too late

[Dunk#7]

if Obama jumped off a bridge, would an extra 36% of blacks follow him?

I wasn't going quite that far, but that was my basic thought with this news.

How about being a leader instead of a follower and having your own ideas instead of adopting somebody else's.

Why would one person's opinion change the opinion of 36% of a population. Are people not capable of forming their own opinions?

[reilo]

Gaborn is a gay person who voted for the guy who wrote the law that bans gay marriage in America to be President of the United States. So, yea. He justifies it by saying the dude later changed his mind and said sorry, or something. So there's just like, incomprehensible levels of irony there.

You should find the post where he called Obama a bigot.

[Deified Data]

This genuinely takes me by surprise.

[KibblesBits]

This gif is hilarious.

[Prax]

I'm happy for this news.
Leaders leading~!

It's frustrating that many people don't think very deeply on important issues or just let themselves be led around by whoever is most outspoken or has higher authority, but that's just people being people... If it has to be that way, I'm glad they can be persuaded and educated for more social justice.

[ivysaur12]

PPP is a partisan polling outfit. They also poll extensively at the state level, which very few polling places do (especially on social issues). So, they are going to selectively release information to further their overall cause or help build a narrative. No one else (like Quinnipiac) is going to either, since they won't waste the time and resources to even poll about it. Even other partisan polling places like Rassmussen do not seem very interested in doing this kind of thing. That's not to say their information is incorrect. But, it's to point out that if Black support for gay marriage actually went DOWN in other states, they are never going to release it. They are not the gold standard of polling like Pew or (to a lesser extent) Gallup is.

They're a partisan polling outfit, sure, but they're also one of the most accurate on this particular issue, more so than Pew or Gallup have been because they do so much work on the state level.

[Enron]

It's consistent with other recent polls.

It's entirely consistent with other recent polls. In fact, PPP is one of the best pollers on gay marriage. The poll the question more than anyone else, and are usually between 1-2% of the final vote. They're uncannily good on this issue.

What I mean is, African-Americans on the "religious" social issues tend to be more conservative than whites - I can't see this lasting.

[ivysaur12]

What I mean is, African-Americans on the "religious" social issues tend to be more conservative than whites - I can't see this lasting.

Sometimes expectations ≠ reality.

[commedieu]

wait...

bobby brown, and bel biv devoe? This gif needs its own thread...

edit; I missed new edition. and mint condition..

what a wasted life.

-shame-

[KibblesBits]

wait... bobby brown, and bel biv devoe? This gif needs its own thread...

Yeah, it's almost like they were all in a music group together... like a boy band.
/sarcasm

;D

[Bel Marduk]

wait... bobby brown, and bel biv devoe? This gif needs its own thread...

Once upon a time, they were called New Edition.

[ToxicAdam]

bobby brown, and bel biv devoe? This gif needs its own thread... edit; I missed new edition. and mint condition.. -

whhhaaaat?

They're a partisan polling outfit, sure, but they're also one of the most accurate on this particular issue, more so than Pew or Gallup have been because they do so much work on the state level.

What does this even mean? Pew and Gallup don't do these types of polls at the state level. That's why outfits like PPP, Quinnipiac, etc exist and thrive.

How exactly do you judge 'accuracy' on feelings of gay marriage at a statewide level? It seems you are extrapolating their success on campaign results.

[Davidion]

If it isn't love
Why do I feel this way
Why does she stay on my mind

If it isn't love
Why does it hurt so bad
Make me feel so sad inside

[ToxicAdam]

dp

[ivysaur12]

dp

As I stated beforehand, they have been accurate to 1 or 2 percentage points before state referrendums in the issue, far and away the closest of any major polling operations.

This question was also about the impending referendum, which is what I'm referring to.

[Zaptruder]

You officially baffle me Gaborn. It's like you hate the fact that Obama did this and will use any opportunity to demonize him for doing so.....and yet you support Ron Paul.

Cognitive dissonance is a beautiful(ly confounding) thing to behold isn't it?

Especially when it's been drawn to attention again and again.

At some point, you just gotta recognize that Gaborn loves getting the attention over the apparent contradictory state of his beliefs.

[ssolitare]

I wasn't going quite that far, but that was my basic thought with this news. How about being a leader instead of a follower and having your own ideas instead of adopting somebody else's. Why would one person's opinion change the opinion of 36% of a population. Are people not capable of forming their own opinions?

Troll alert. I hope that people really don't think this way.

[Socreges]

I'm happy for the shift, but concerned that it takes presidential acknowledgement (and an election year) for people to "change their minds". But I guess it's a start.

I know I say this a lot, but..... that's how people work. You're not going to change their minds through argument and reason. You need an event like this.

I wasn't going quite that far, but that was my basic thought with this news. How about being a leader instead of a follower and having your own ideas instead of adopting somebody else's. Why would one person's opinion change the opinion of 36% of a population. Are people not capable of forming their own opinions?

And how did you come to form your own opinions on protracted and divisive issues?

[Zulithe]

His increased support and acknowledgement of the gay community just might win a second vote out of me.

[SteveWinwood]

wait... bobby brown, and bel biv devoe? This gif needs its own thread... edit; I missed new edition. and mint condition.. what a wasted life. -shame-

This made me laugh so hard.

[DeathbyVolcano]

how did I know Gaborn would move the goal posts in this thread. Good christ man, have a little dignity.

[akira28]

Ronnie, Bobby, Ricky and Mike are shocked. Shocked and appalled. Someone needs to cool it.

[To Far Away Times]

The more attention that gets brought to this issue, the more people that will support gay marriage. And I highly doubt that people who spend some time and reflect on gay marriage would ever switch from supporting gay marriage to not supporting it. Change is coming.

[Davidion]

This made me laugh so hard.

As someone who also didn't know about the existence of New Edition up until a couple of months ago, I can tell you that it's no laughing matter.

[Trurl]

Ohhhhhhh, ice cold burn. What do you have to say to that, blacks?

Good show, chap.

[ToxicAdam]

As I stated beforehand, they have been accurate to 1 or 2 percentage points before state referrendums in the issue, far and away the closest of any major polling operations. This question was also about the impending referendum, which is what I'm referring to.

So, they were very successful in identifying likely voters in a few select states over a few years. That's not exactly the same thing at all.

[Jenga]

so perhaps if he had evolved one month earlier we might have seen a similar shift in North Carolina when it would have mattered?

quit denying him and open your black libertarian heart to change

[ivysaur12]

So, they were very successful in identifying likely voters in a few select states over a few years. That's not exactly the same thing at all.

There have been around 25 votes on this issue since 2006. It's a little better than "a few select states." They have been successful on predicting outcomes of gay marriage referendums.

[CHEEZMO™]

quit denying him and open your black libertarian heart to change

For a second there I thought I had just learnt that Gaborn was Black and was about to be mindblown.

[Dunk#7]

Troll alert. I hope that people really don't think this way.

And how did you come to form your own opinions on protracted and divisive issues?

What are you talking about? Do you really think it is correct for somebody to change their opinion simply because a person in power made a statement?

That is a scary world to live in.

If everybody can be manipulated simply by the words that come out of a president's mouth then that does not say much for those individuals being grounded in their beliefs

And my statement is completely separate from the issue at hand. I am not tying this in with gay marriage in any way. It is simply wrong for people to change their opinion simply because somebody else said so.

[Brettison]

I glad people seem to be changing their minds, and I'll fully admit I really didn't see this happening either.

*FLAME SHIELD ON*

Like really? That's all it takes? They couldn't come to this conclusion on their own before hand? I mean Obama didn't even say anything new to the argument, but just told us his evolved position.

Despite liking this shift as I feel it's the right one to make it makes me question some people's intelligence if they can be so easily swayed even if it's to the side I'm on.

*FLAME SHIELD OFF*

[ToxicAdam]

There have been around 25 votes on this issue since 2006. It's a little better than "a few select states." They have been successful on predicting outcomes of gay marriage referendums.

They have been successful in predicting who likely voters are.

[computers putin']

I think most people in the black community supported gay marriage beforehand, Obama just emboldened them to be more vocal about it imo...... well, at least most of the people I knew were either supportive, or at the very least, indifferent about gay marriage before Obama spoke out and are now more vocal or supportive of it.

[CHEEZMO™]

What are you talking about? Do you really think it is correct for somebody to change their opinion simply because a person in power made a statement? That is a scary world to live in. If everybody can be manipulated simply by the words that come out of a president's mouth then that does not say much for those individuals being grounded in their beliefs And my statement is completely separate from the issue at hand. I am not tying this in with gay marriage in any way. It is simply wrong for people to change their opinion simply because somebody else said so.

Do you seriously think the thought process of the people who changed their views went "I hate fags and I don't thi- oh, what's that? Obama says he wants marriage equality? Well I guess I do too *sigh*."?

[ivysaur12]

They have been successful in predicting who likely voters are.

Exactly. And there is a vote. In November. On gay marriage. In Maryland. That's why this poll is relevant.

[ToxicAdam]

You know, I missed the part of this thread where you linked to that NYT article about the stumbling blocks for this vote. My bad.