[TheExorzist]

But that's not even the point. The point isn't if the map is all loaded at once or in pieces, the point is that those are open worlds cause you can explore them at full and go back to every area at any given moment.

The bloody point is that you can't explore area 2,3,4,5 etc until you leveled enough in area 1. For me that is not the essence of an open world game. If I buy an OpenWorld game, I want to go anywhere at any given time. That's the menaing of the bloody word after all. It's no use to me if the game gets Open World from Level 30 on. I want it to be open world from the first minute. Get it? Elder Scrolls provides that. Elder Scrolls is all about that. If you don't bloody want that then go and play Gothic for all I care.

Which, beside being exactly how Ultima works, isn't anything necessarily worth of any praise. "All available now" isn't a great game design at all, if comes at the price of making exploration dull.

Well, except that this is what TES is all about. What do you even want? I also don't go and buy Witcher 2 if I want Elder Scrolls because I don't even want it to be that. If I wanted it to be that, I would not be buying it. I recommend you do the same

Well, first things first, what about putting some proper design into the game instead of turning it in a giant pointless sandbox? What about being sure that the player has plenty of options at any level range without scaling ALL the content to his level.

Bloody again.... This is what TES is all about. That's why I bought the game. What the.... Blows my mind.


[size=1] More mind blown here [/size]

... And that's bad why? That's exactly the problem.Why can't you grasp this point? The whole "I can do anything and face anyone at any point" is exactly what makes these games dull.

So why do you buy Skyrim?

Yeah, god forbid games with some structure and balance in it. Running around for Skyrim's landscape facing mostly autoscaled enemies is so much more intriguing. Of course, it makes progression pointless and if you exploit the crafting you can top the best loot in the game barely a couple of hours into the game, but there's so much freedom! Well, enjoy it. Just don't pretend it's the only way to handle these things, cause *factually* it isn't.

Speak for yourself... I bought Skyrim to dive into a game world and explore it. Never did I get anything even remotely comparable. I put about 250 hours into it enjoyed the hell out of it. It's not perfect, I agree. But aside from maybe the general quest quality Bethesda improved every aspect compared to Oblivion.

This game got countless GotY award. Not only from gamers but also from gaming sites and magazines. Even countless developers voted it to be game of the year. It was voted as GotY on bloody GDC. And now you come here, nitpicking the shit out of the game and tell me how bad this game is after all.

cool story bro, can I buy it somewhere?

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

The bloody point is that you can't explore area 2,3,4,5 etc until you leveled enough in area 1.

Which is completely false.

[TheExorzist]

Which is completely false.

Well, then you played a different Gothic than I did.

[EatinOlives]

Meh, too little too late for me. The game bored me to tears, and this isn’t enough to grab me back.

Who said they're doing this to "grab you back"? It's a neat little feature they just plopped in the game, nothing more.

[TheExorzist]

Who said they're doing this to "grab you back"? It's a neat little feature they just plopped in the game, nothing more.

This. Just like they changed the vision under water with the last update and added echo sound when you fight in canyons. I think it's pretty amazing that Bethesda is doing this little updates.

[lucius]

I didn't get into the ponies in Skyrim either, they would die too quick and I didn't feel like buying one then abandoning it somewhere.

[Solid SOAP]

i think skyrim is a fun game capable of providing hours and hours of enjoyable entertainment and commend bethesda for continuing to provide new and interesting updates to the mechanical structure of the game free of charge.

This. Honestly, I haven't even scratched the surface of the game and I've had it for months, the fact that they're releasing meaningful updates to the game that elongates playtime and adds depth to the game's world and mechanics is nothing to complain about when most game companies would likely nickel and dime you for these minute features. Hell, Bethesda have in the past ie; Horse Armor.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

Well, then you played a different Gothic than I did.

Mostly because I actually played it, for a start.

So I know that:
1) you can go anywhere at any moment. There are even people willing to escort you when you want to venture in more dangerous areas.
2) there aren't areas specifically dedicated to level ranges, just area that are more dangerous if you aren't strong enough.
3) there isn't a linear progression as you're trying to suggest, it isn't "go from A to B, then to C". There's just a world that offers constant peril and you are more and more ready to face it while getting stronger. It's more like "at the beginning you must fear everything, then you are ready to expand in many directions, paying some attention, and at some point you can even face the big stuff".
Which is *exactly* how a properly designed open world should feel in a RPG.

[ElFly]

Speak for yourself... I bought Skyrim to dive into a game world and explore it. Never did I get anything even remotely comparable. I put about 250 hours into it enjoyed the hell out of it. It's not perfect, I agree. But aside from maybe the general quest quality Bethesda improved every aspect compared to Oblivion. This game got countless GotY award. Not only from gamers but also from gaming sites and magazines. Even countless developers voted it to be game of the year. It was voted as GotY on bloody GDC. And now you come here, nitpicking the shit out of the game and tell me how bad this game is after all. cool story bro, can I buy it somewhere?

Goty awards are mostly meaningless cause publishers are known to buy good reviews from magazines/sites.

[EatinOlives]

How is Skyrim suddenly not a good game? Wow, people are pedantic.

It's part of the OMG YES IT'S AMAZING -> two months later -> SHIT! IT'S SO SHIT! cycle of a lot of popular games. Don't mind it, people love to moan and bitch on popular games a few months after their release. I fully expect more bitching the closer we get to the first DLC.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

It's part of the OMG YES IT'S AMAZING -> two months later -> SHIT! IT'S SO SHIT! cycle of a lot of popular games. Don't mind it, people love to moan and bitch on popular games a few months after their release. I fully expect more bitching the closer we get to the first DLC.

Just cause you people are gullible and narrow minded you shouldn't assume that everyone acts like you do.
No, it's not about "hating what's popular". What are you, twelve?
It's about not liking a specific design approach.

And why are you assuming that who's criticizing the game today praised it at its launch, by the way?

[lethial]

It's part of the OMG YES IT'S AMAZING -> two months later -> SHIT! IT'S SO SHIT! cycle of a lot of popular games. Don't mind it, people love to moan and bitch on popular games a few months after their release. I fully expect more bitching the closer we get to the first DLC.

Wow dude relax it's just a videogame.

[subversus]

I remember this thread where people were explaining how mediocre and shitty Half Life 2 is.


I had fun.

[KieferCrimson]

Wow dude relax it's just a videogame.

I repeat this to myself every time I read some posts in this forum. Seriously.

Also, it's gonna be good to jump on this when it gets cheap, hopefully by the summer sale. So maybe I missed out on the Skyrim greatness when it came out, but it's just making me to want to buy it more and more.

[lucius]

Goty awards are mostly meaningless cause publishers are known to buy good reviews from magazines/sites.

While this might be true still does not explain why it is one of the most played games on Raptr or always in top played Live lists. It is without question one of the most played single player games this generation.

[Escape Goat]

can they make it worthwhile to use a horse? They're not much faster than running. And harder to maneuver.

[bj00rn_]

Just cause you people are gullible and narrow minded you shouldn't assume that everyone acts like you do.

That attitude of yours..It really stinks, seriously. Welcome to my ignore list.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

So maybe I missed out on the Skyrim greatness when it came out, but it's just making me to want to buy it more and more.

That's one of the great things about long term post-release support.
Strangely enough, very few companies have grasped this concept, despise how constantly it works as a business practice.

That attitude of yours..It really stinks, seriously. Welcome to my ignore list.

You're welcome. You won't be missed.

[ElFly]

While this might be true still does not explain why it is one of the most played games on Raptr or always in top played Live lists. It is without question one of the most played single player games this generation.

Because it was hyped to fuck and back and tons of people bought it (me included).

There's a lot of content in it and it's easy instead of frustrating.

The game is good, don't get me wrong, but definitely it's not goty material. It's cool that they are still bringing new content.


e:by your metric, windows solitaire is the best pc game of all time.

[TheExorzist]

Mostly because I actually played it, for a start.

Ahh.... sure you did. Then play keep playing it and don't play any more TES EVER. You don't even realize how embarrassing your argumentation is, which is kinda sad.

Goty awards are mostly meaningless cause publishers are known to buy good reviews from magazines/sites.

Well, if a game gets good scores from basically every major magazine and site, I guess it must be good. I don't think Bethesda can affrd to buy them all. Usually the first Exlusive Reviews are bought, not what comes after the release.

[ElFly]

Ahh.... sure you did. Then play keep playing it and don't play any more TES EVER. You don't even realize how embarrassing your argumentation is, which is kinda sad. Well, if a game gets good scores from basically every major magazine and site, I guess it must be good. I don't think Bethesda can affrd to buy them all. Usually the first Exlusive Reviews are bought, not what comes after the release.

That attitude only plays into the hands of publishers that buy reviews.

Say, Dark Souls, is better in every way that's not amount of content and, uh, music? and still has a lower metacritic than skyrim.

Yeah, sure, the genres are different (but not that much) and it's not out on pc.

Say, new vegas has a lower score than skyrim and there's a lot of people around gaf that will beat you if you as much as suggest that it's worse than skyrim.

Review scores are almost meaningless to game quality.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

Ahh.... sure you did. Then play keep playing it and don't play any more TES EVER. You don't even realize how embarrassing your argumentation is, which is kinda sad.

I love the irony of posts like this one blaming me for "my bad attitude" when in fact I'm spending half of my time on this thread defending myself from childish attempts to *insult* me simply because I made the huge mistake to state that I don't like a popular game.
And what's really embarrassing is how you insist claiming that "it can't be done in any other way!" when plenty of games did it successfully in the past.

Beside, apparently I'm the only one interested to know how well this new feature works, as I'm the only one who asked about it twice and everyone else is speaking about other stuff.

Well, if a game gets good scores from basically every major magazine and site, I guess it must be good.

Sure, like Oblivion and Assassin's Creed.

[spirity]

Tuco with the Skyrim hate, again. Seriously man, stop playing it or following the game. You hate it, we get it because you never miss an opportunity to tell everyone just how bad a game it is. Its fine to be critical but when you are clearly on some sort of crusade it just looks a bit desperate. Really now.


Aaaanyway. Mounted combat wasn't one of the things I was really looking forward to from the Game Jam, but hey I'll take it. I might actually really enjoy it once I try it, who knows. Props to Bethesda for their continued support of this game! Now where are my epic mounts covered in freakin fire and werebears?!

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

Tuco with the Skyrim hate, again. Seriously man, stop playing it or following the game. You hate it, we get it because you never miss an opportunity to tell everyone just how bad a game it is. Its fine to be critical but when you are clearly on some sort of crusade it just looks a bit desperate. Really now.

No, I'm not in a "crusade". I barely stated my dislike for the game as a side note, in a post where on the other hand I was praising Bethesda's post-release support.

Of course, I'm going to defend my opinion if everyone else suddenly feels the urge to jump on me, raging for my not being a fan.
If you don't want to hear about it, then shut up and don't start yelling "HOW IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE???" when I say something like "Well, I don't like the game very much, but...".

[bigdaddygamebot]

Well, if a game gets good scores from basically every major magazine and site, I guess it must be good. I don't think Bethesda can affrd to buy them all. Usually the first Exlusive Reviews are bought, not what comes after the release.

Bah...they didn't pay anyone off. What they DID do however was create a game that starts off very, VERY strong and makes a great first impression. It's perfectly crafted to garner good reviews because it's front loaded. The issue with Skyrim is that fifteen hours in, some people start to get the impression that it isn't quite as deep as they were lead to believe.

The actions you take and the decisions you make really don't matter.

...and the combat is anemic.

They seem to be trying to address some of that. I definitely grew bored with the game and grew to dislike it. However I recognize that what they are doing with the content updates and DLC might address a number of the things I didn't like about it so...I'm playing the waiting game.

[Gamer @ Heart]

Ahh.... sure you did. Then play keep playing it and don't play any more TES EVER. You don't even realize how embarrassing your argumentation is, which is kinda sad. Well, if a game gets good scores from basically every major magazine and site, I guess it must be good. I don't think Bethesda can affrd to buy them all. Usually the first Exlusive Reviews are bought, not what comes after the release.

I fucking love the series, but you need to stop. People are entitled to their opinion. You do not need to answer every complaint with the attitude you have.

[Khold]

How do you opt into the Steam Beta Update, thing?

[Raptomex]

Now horses have more of a purpose.

[Htown]

The bloody point is that you can't explore area 2,3,4,5 etc until you leveled enough in area 1. For me that is not the essence of an open world game. If I buy an OpenWorld game, I want to go anywhere at any given time. That's the menaing of the bloody word after all. It's no use to me if the game gets Open World from Level 30 on. I want it to be open world from the first minute. Get it? Elder Scrolls provides that. Elder Scrolls is all about that. If you don't bloody want that then go and play Gothic for all I care.

There's a difference between being able to go anywhere and being able to go anywhere without risk.

You want the latter. Other people want there to be risks in exploration because to them it makes exploration more meaningful.

[TheExorzist]

That attitude only plays into the hands of publishers that buy reviews. Say, Dark Souls, is better in every way that's not amount of content and, uh, music? and still has a lower metacritic than skyrim. Yeah, sure, the genres are different (but not that much) and it's not out on pc. Say, new vegas has a lower score than skyrim and there's a lot of people around gaf that will beat you if you as much as suggest that it's worse than skyrim. Review scores are almost meaningless to game quality.

Yeah, keep telling that yourself.

lol @ the comparrison to Dark Souls or New Vegas. You know, considering that the first one is as hardcore as it can get and the second was a bloody bug-fest at it's release. I mean, New Vegas was so buggy, I promised myself to never ever buy an Obsidian game in my entire life - and I played Oblivion on release...

[ElFly]

Yeah, keep telling that yourself. lol @ the comparrison to Dark Souls or New Vegas. You know, considering that the first one is as hardcore as it can get and the second was a bloody bug-fest at it's release. I mean, New Vegas was so buggy, I promised myself to never ever buy an Obsidian game in my entire life - and I played Oblivion on release...

Well, go on and keep buying games based on hype and review scores, good sheep.

[TheExorzist]

I love the irony of posts like this one blaming me for "my bad attitude" when in fact I'm spending half of my time on this thread defending myself from childish attempts to *insult* me simply because I made the huge mistake to state that I don't like a popular game. And what's really embarrassing is how you insist claiming that "it can't be done in any other way!" when plenty of games did it successfully in the past.

The only thing embarrassing is that you want TES to be something it does not want to be. And the fact that you still haven't realized that makes me question why the hell I'm still quoting your comments.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

The only thing embarrassing is that you want TES to be something it does not want to be.

...Good? Balanced? Well designed? Challenging? Interesting?

And the fact that you still haven't realized that makes me question why the hell I'm still quoting your comments.

Then stop quoting them.

[TheExorzist]

There's a difference between being able to go anywhere and being able to go anywhere without risk. You want the latter. Other people want there to be risks in exploration because to them it makes exploration more meaningful.

I have no problem with that. What baffels me is why people here want TES to be something that Bethesda doesn't want it to be.

[lucius]

200 plus hours for me still enjoying my mostly archery run. DLC needs to come out soon though, was hoping for Fallout DLC treatment, but it looks like we will be lucky to get even 2.

[epmode]

I for one appreciate Tuco's posts in this thread, even though I generally like Skyrim. He's absolutely on point when it comes to loot scaling and dull dungeon design.

[Ledsen]

The bloody point is that you can't explore area 2,3,4,5 etc until you leveled enough in area 1. For me that is not the essence of an open world game. If I buy an OpenWorld game, I want to go anywhere at any given time. That's the menaing of the bloody word after all. It's no use to me if the game gets Open World from Level 30 on. I want it to be open world from the first minute. Get it? Elder Scrolls provides that. Elder Scrolls is all about that. If you don't bloody want that then go and play Gothic for all I care. Well, except that this is what TES is all about. What do you even want? I also don't go and buy Witcher 2 if I want Elder Scrolls because I don't even want it to be that. If I wanted it to be that, I would not be buying it. I recommend you do the same Bloody again.... This is what TES is all about. That's why I bought the game. What the.... Blows my mind.

This wasn't what TES was all about... until Oblivion. All TES games before that had at least some really dangerous areas where you couldn't go until you were strong enough, because you would get beaten to death in seconds. Everyone, including Bethesda themselves, admitted that the approach they took in Oblivion was the wrong one. There is simply no point in character advancement if every challenge is beatable at every level. At that point, it's not an RPG, it's an action game with meaningless stats.

We're not talking about two extremes here. A game doesn't have to be either completely linear or completely open. There are shades of grey inbetween, and that's where the really interesting games tend to position themselves. You seem to be advocating one of the extremes and pretending that the only alternative is the other extreme, which is simply not true.

[spirity]

No, I'm not in a "crusade". I barely stated my dislike for the game as a side note, in a post where on the other hand I was praising Bethesda's post-release support. Of course, I'm going to defend my opinion if everyone else suddenly feels the urge to jump on me, raging for my not being a fan. If you don't want to hear about it, then shut up and don't start yelling "HOW IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE???" when I say something like "Well, I don't like the game very much, but...".

Bullshit.

You are in every Skyrim thread, shitting it up. The time to piss and moan about Skyrims features, which are set in stone now and aren't going to change, was at release. Most people will make their points and move on. But you keep coming back to every Skyrim thread with the same stuff. I happen to agree with some of what you say, what I object to is you using it as a weapon to bash people over the head with. People think the game is really good, but you are here to tell them they're wrong. In every Skyrim thread.

What is the point? Its not even an interesting debate, you're not bringing anything new to the table. We all know its faults, especially the fans of the game. You're not saying anything that's new, you're just retreading old ground over and over.

Its old, man. And stop pretending your the victim here, with the "well i don't like the game very much". You can't stand it, you think its a bad game period. You've said so yourself many times. I don't know what your agenda is. Maybe you're a ps3 owner who got fucked and are rightly angry. Maybe you believed some of Todd's rhetoric about the ai. Or maybe you just don't like the game and have nothing better to do. But you do have an agenda, and you are on a crusade.

edit
And I've just played my part in the thread-shit. GG me :/

[Mindman]

Skyrim deserved every single GotY it got.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

Bullshit. You are in every Skyrim thread, shitting it up

Yeah. Let's make up some more bullshit, please. The forum drama surely needs it.
"You are in every Skyrim thread". No, I'm not.

[spirity]

Yeah. Let's make up some more bullshit, please. The forum drama surely needs it.

And the predictable denial brings this spat to a close.

See you in the next thread, I guess.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

I argued (articulately) about Skyrim and its flaws in a previous thread, talking with subversus, and yes, many of the points I made then are the ones I'm repeating now, but that's pretty much it.
Then again, in a couple of other circumstances I briefly stated my dislike for every single Bethesda's production since Morrowind, without even being specific about Skyrim.

Trying to pretend that I'm on a "crusade", following some hidden "agenda" strikes me like plain and simple paranoia.
There aren't really many other ways to describe it.

[dinosaur_hunter2]

Very excited to see it coming. I never use my horse because I can't kill anyone while riding, maybe this time I'll give it another try.

And I have a weird problem: for some unknown reason, Skyrim doesn't reckognizes my Kinect. I'm pretty sure it's working properly because I use it in other games, so... What the hell is happening? The option letting me enable its use doesn't even appear to me in the options menu. Any ideas?

[EatinOlives]

Wow dude relax it's just a videogame.

Who said I'm tense? I'm just pointing out a very obvious cycle. I'm quite calm.

Just cause you people are gullible and narrow minded you shouldn't assume that everyone acts like you do. No, it's not about "hating what's popular". What are you, twelve? It's about not liking a specific design approach. And why are you assuming that who's criticizing the game today praised it at its launch, by the way?

Joy, silly ad hominems! Simple to pepper arguments with "YOU'RE A NARROW MINDED 12 YEAR OLD" instead of actually refuting things. I heard it makes your point much more logical. And to think someone just told me to relax, you'd probably have a better use for that advice.

You might try reading my post. I didn't say the same people who criticize the game now praised it at launch. I have no idea where you got that from. I'm talking about the general cycle of the reception of the game on the gaming community. November was absolutely filled with people obsessed over the game, launched with huge hype, posters everywhere loved it, was showered with GOTY's, topped Steam sales charts and usage data for probably months on end, the works. Then the backlash starts and we get pretty little posts like yours.

It's quite simple, and it happens with every major release. You have your reasons for shitting on the game, and boy do you shit on it, but I'm pointing out obvious general patterns. Something somewhere compels a sect of people into shitting on a game the more popular it is.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

Joy, silly ad hominems! Simple to pepper arguments with "YOU'RE A NARROW MINDED 12 YEAR OLD" instead of actually refuting things.

Seriously, now... What I'm supposed to answer to "YOU HATE THE GAME BECAUSE IT'S POPULAR!11!!!!"? "You know, you may have a valid point"?
No, you haven't. It's a silly and childish claim.

[animlboogy]

WOAH. Double post due to bad phone connection. Pardon me.

[animlboogy]

The only thing embarrassing is that you want TES to be something it does not want to be. And the fact that you still haven't realized that makes me question why the hell I'm still quoting your comments.

...TES could easily be something else. There are mods that do it. They make it harder, they turn it into more of a survival experience, etc. Fuck, man, when PC gamers discuss these games, they're up there with ArmA For basically being platforms for heavy modification.

You acting like TES fits one exact mold and talking down to people who feel otherwise is so completely ignorant of what this series is for and how it's viewed by a huge portion of players. Including those who played pre-Oblivion games, which had some brutal content scattered around.

I saw Oblivion get turned into the legitimately wonderful OOO experience. Skyrim will eventually have another standard like that, and it's going to address a lot of complaints. Is it so insane that for the thousands of us who have made TES games better through sheer effort, we would like to see some of that applied to the vanilla games?

I want Bethesda to make a better game from the start. The world is amazing. It's full of content. But it's somehow out of line to be dissatisfied with that content? It's my responsibility as a fan and a consumer to criticize, not simply accept.

[Mr. Wonderful]

I'm interested in the patch's Memory Optimizations, too, seeing as my 6490M only has 256MB. The shadows that were added to 1.5 absolutely killed my performance.

[Piano]

I haven't even bothered using a horse.

Me neither. Finally makes horses somewhat useful. Archery on horseback in particular looks badass as hell.

[Shocking4U]

Having foot prints on the snow is an obvious one. Would like to see clothes being effected by water as well