[Criminal Upper]

Can't wait for sad stories like this to happen every other month once next-gen starts.

[Patryn]

damn shame hmm i was gonna buy Amalur in a Steam sale too... is it safe to wait for that or will they pull it from the store eventually (or maybe not but it won't ever go on sale now?)

Probably last as long as 38 still exists. Which may be a while, as their next loan payment isn't due until November.

[Last Hearth]

They aren't going to pull the game, EA is the publisher so the money goes to them, and whatever royalties that 38 is entitled to will be given to the creditors of 38.

I think employee wages/suppliers are first in line in term of priority of creditors, also bonds may go even ahead of that.

[coopolon]

They aren't going to pull the game, EA is the publisher so the money goes to them, and whatever royalties that 38 is entitled to will be given to the creditors of 38. I think employee wages/suppliers are first in line in term of priority of creditors, also bonds may go even ahead of that.

The version on Steam is published by 38 Studios.

[Last Hearth]

Ok, but still the game won't be pulled, whatever receivership the bankruptcy judge appoints to 38 will own the royalties and distribute to creditors.

[vaelic]

I'm sorry, this angers me greatly. Those poor families who had been laid off had their health insurance expire at midnight. Yes cobra is an option but it is very expensive

Such terrible management

[vaelic]

This! There are only a handful of places that I would consider to be layoff safe. So fucking unstable.

NO job is ever safe, my friend

[gogojira]

New article. 38 Studios is still trying to survive it seems, pitching (no pun intended) Copernicus to private investors.

[Doc Holliday]

Can't wait for sad stories like this to happen every other month once next-gen starts.

I don't think studio closings will be that bad this time. The tech jump between last gen and this gen were tremendous. Not just the power but the way of doing things were completely different. Even if the tech jumps 10x-50x in power the workflow will be pretty much the same. Normal maps changed everything!

[Doc Holliday]

NO job is ever safe, my friend

You're right, maybe I should have said "Safer"

Also by safe I mean not looking for work every 1 - 2 years lol

[Patryn]

New article. 38 Studios is still trying to survive it seems, pitching (no pun intended) Copernicus to private investors.

Even if they do get funding, what will they do for a work force?

[remnant]

http://www.necn.com/05/25/12/Czar-of...28&feedID=4206 Saw this on Scott Jennings blog. Czar of Amalur blames governor. I think the only conclusion that sane readers can come to is that the staff of 38 studios was indoctrinated.

If the government promised these credits and pulled out, than yeah that's a bullshit move. Borderline illegal.

That million could have paid payroll and cobra for the employee's. They still would have closed up shop but it would have been cleaner.

It depends on how you look it it. Do you want to fondly reminisce about the girl that got away? Or would you rather get the girl, find out she that despite her beauty she is a batshit crazy alcoholic who has been stealing money and valuables from your apartment? This was going to end badly no matter what. Is it better that the game didn't get finished, or better that it didn't get finish and then crash and burn?

Nothing wrong with going F2P. They would have actually gotten a product out and had means to pay their payroll and some of the loans.

This is the worst case scenario.

[border]

SWTOR's falling down has very little bearing on things prior to the last what, 3 or 4 months? Also it's still a big market that can make a lot of money, SWTOR's failing is more to do with it being a shitty product than the overall state/health of MMORPG.

SWTOR's performance was regarded as mediocre-to-middling almost from its launch. When one of the world's biggest IPs can't make a dent like that, how is any publisher going to have faith in a brand new IP that seems to have all the same development issues as SWTOR? Part of the problem with catching up with WoW is that it takes half a decade to make an MMO....so while BioWare designed a great game that could easily have competed with WoW in 2007, it took them so long to actually make the game that it ended up quite dated and behind the times.

The MMO market still certainly exists and it's still certainly possible to thrive there, but it's clearly not the time to be making 150 Million Dollar WoW competitors. I can't think of any big houses that would have wanted Copernicus. Ubisoft has their own MMO in the pipe. Activision has WoW. Electronic Arts is still licking its wounds over Warhammer and SWTOR. It seems pretty clear that Sony Online Entertainment has seen it and took a pass. If it is seriously going to take another 48 million dollars (before marketing costs) to get this thing out the door, who could possibly have stepped up as a publisher?

[gogojira]

Even if they do get funding, what will they do for a work force?

Rehire people worth rehiring? I don't honestly know, but I'm sure they'd be elated to deal with that issue. Right now they're stuck trying to hurdle a mountain.

[A Black Falcon]

Even if they do get funding, what will they do for a work force?

Rehire some of the people you fired, I assume. If they manage to actually get funding, that is (I hope they do, I do want to see this game...).

[I Push Fat Kids]

I'm cautiously optimistic for them. Really hope they find some interested parties.

[outunderthestars]

New article. 38 Studios is still trying to survive it seems, pitching (no pun intended) Copernicus to private investors.

Who would invest in a company that clearly cannot manage their finances?

[Last Hearth]

If they are just some month away from release, you can basically own an almost release ready MMO for 4-5 month burn rate it's not a bad deal, depending how good you think the MMO they are making is.

[remnant]

SWTOR's performance was regarded as mediocre-to-middling almost from its launch. When one of the world's biggest IPs can't make a dent like that, how is any publisher going to have faith in a brand new IP that seems to have all the same development issues as SWTOR? Part of the problem with catching up with WoW is that it takes half a decade to make an MMO....so while BioWare designed a great game that could easily have competed with WoW in 2007, it took them so long to actually make the game that it ended up quite dated and behind the times. The MMO market still certainly exists and it's still certainly possible to thrive there, but it's clearly not the time to be making 150 Million Dollar WoW competitors. I can't think of any big houses that would have wanted Copernicus. Ubisoft has their own MMO in the pipe. Activision has WoW. Electronic Arts is still licking its wounds over Warhammer and SWTOR. It seems pretty clear that Sony Online Entertainment has seen it and took a pass. If it is seriously going to take another 48 million dollars (before marketing costs) to get this thing out the door, who could possibly have stepped up as a publisher?

It's difficult to make a 150 million MMO leviathan successful based off the old model but new buisness models have shown it can work. I don't see many publishers taking a shot on it becuase the industry growth has stalled and a new generation is about to start, but if they have the right buisness model and 38 studios/RI is willing to concede a lot i can see them getting enough resources for a small run.

They shouldn't give up yet.

Who would invest in a company that clearly cannot manage their finances?

It's not that black and white. The loan they took forced them to grow to fast. They seem to do alright when before they took out the loan and had to the puppet strings attached.

[Patryn]

If they are just some month away from release, you can basically own an almost release ready MMO for 4-5 month burn rate it's not a bad deal, depending how good you think the MMO they are making is.

The leaked release date was June 2013. So they were a year away, supposedly.

[border]

I don't see many publishers taking a shot on it becuase the industry growth has stalled and a new generation is about to start, but if they have the right buisness model and 38 studios/RI is willing to concede a lot i can see them getting enough resources for a small run.

So which publisher has 48 million in completion funds (plus a marketing budget), and is willing to spend it on this game.? How much faith would you have in their business model after seeing how recklessly mismanaged the company has been until now? Can you honestly believe them when they say they will be done by next summer, considering how monstrously far behind the project has already fallen?

[vaelic]

Rehire some of the people you fired, I assume. If they manage to actually get funding, that is (I hope they do, I do want to see this game...).

I sure as hell would never go back to them if I was someone who was part of this debacle

[Dartastic]

Also its good for adding to the technology and asset library, which makes sense and is a common practice in video games nowadays. But its still bad business when the whole damn company falls apart before you can cash in on game 2 despite the fact you had what should be decent number of sales for a new IP. EDIT: Thinking about it, my guess is they probably wanted about 1.5 million and then get a new round of investors after seeing how well the game did for being a new IP. The problem probably came when those investors saw how much of a money sink the project was and the risk of losing tons verses the small possible gains from it doing gangbusters made no one want to help them out.

Yep. Nailing it on the head. I can't speak for the investor bit though...

http://www.necn.com/05/25/12/Czar-of...28&feedID=4206 Saw this on Scott Jennings blog. Czar of Amalur blames governor. I think the only conclusion that sane readers can come to is that the staff of 38 studios was indoctrinated.

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the current governor does have something to do with the company going under. The loan guarantee for 38 was the previous Governor's project, and if you were listening to the press conference yesterday the current governor said that Reckoning had "Horrible violence and sexism" which is just... ridiculous. When you hear the governor saying things like "this is just a company being formed by an ex-baseball player... I mean, it defies imagination" it makes it seem like there really might be some truth to the governor helping the company fail.

Keep in mind, laying people off like this immediately while they are trying to secure funding might be a really smart move. Instead of stringing their employees along while they're trying to get enough cash to put something out to bring in an income stream and finish development, the employees are now allowed to collect unemployment benefits, etc from the state. Granted, this also may cause many employees to say "screw this" and never come back, if they do manage to secure funding. But still.

[remnant]

So which publisher has 48 million in completion funds (plus a marketing budget), and is willing to spend it on this game.? How much faith would you have in their business model after seeing who recklessly mismanaged the company has been until now? Can you honestly believe them when they say they will be done by next summer, considering how monstrously far behind the project has already fallen?

How many publisher have enough cash to finish a MMO, that by all reports is close to finish? i would venture many of them. This isn't SWTOR 4 year cycle. It's a year (at best. Probably more like 6 months) A valuable IP and a MMO ready to go next year.

The question is who is going to carry the burden of the loan, and will the loan payments make the game unprofitable from the start.

[border]

How many publisher have enough cash to finish a MMO, that by all reports is close to finish?

The question isn't who has the money, but who is willing to spend it. Every big publisher already has an MMO they're happy with or trying to dig themselves out of.

And your estimation that remaining dev time is "probably more like 6 months" seems insanely optimistic, considering that even 38 Studios didn't think they could ship before June 2013 -- and they've obviously underestimated development time throughout the whole cycle.

[spandexmonkey]

Probably end up a repeat of something like APB, although they at least finished the game.

[Iadien]

Who would invest in a company that clearly cannot manage their finances?

SoE is known for this, who knows if they're interested or not. Smed (SoE President) did tweet "Very sorry to hear about 38 Studios. Curt and his team were building an amazing game."

[NathanMcMahon]

These employees crying about Rhode Island as the villain in this fucking debacle is pathetic.

[Dartastic]

These employees crying about Rhode Island as the villain here are fucking pathetic.

Think of it this way. The current governor is on record saying some very anti-company sentiments, and this project was the previous governor's project. The current governor broke NDA's. It is possible that he promised them 8 million in tax credits for the 1.5 million or whatever they owed the state, then after receiving the check backed away from that offer. 38 has only been given 49 million of the 75 million dollars that was promised to them from the loan. Yeah, I think there's enough here to be a little skeptical of Rhode Island. We don't know the full story and only time will tell, but this does seem a bit odd.

[lazybones18]

If the 38 housing situation I'm hearing about is true, then I hope there is a special place in hell for 38 execs who hid the company health.

https://twitter.com/deliciousbees/st...44617051865089

@nickchester hearing that 38 took over mortgages in MA so ppl could buy in RI, failed to pay taxes, now ex-38ers have dbl morts + back taxes

https://twitter.com/#!/deliciousbees...46314356678656

Some of the hundreds of 38 Studios employees laid off yesterday were hit with a second round of bad news this week when they were told by banks that homes they thought the company had sold for them hadn't been and that they may be stuck with a second mortgage, Polygon has learned. Several sources directly impacted by the mortgage issue confirmed the news today and a 38 Studios official, who asked to not be named, said the company is working to try and get to the bottom of the notifications and find a resolution. One former employee said they discovered this week that their Massachusetts home, which they had been told was sold last year, actually hadn't been. The bank contacted them this week to ask why they mortgage wasn't being paid. It is unclear how many of 38 Studio's 288 Rhode Island employees may be impacted, but it will likely only affect some of those who were part of the company's relocation program. The program, we were told, was used to help employees moving from Massachusetts to Rhode Island when the company relocated. The bank notifications raise the specter of how the financing for the relocations were handled. If the company used state-backed money to finance homes or pay mortgages while the homes were being sold it could mean that 38 Studios violated the terms of the agreement with the state. Reached for comment this afternoon, state officials told Polygon they had no independent knowledge of the mortgage issue. During an afternoon press conference today, Gov. Lincoln Chafee told a gathering of press that because 38 Studios didn't alert the state ahead of time about the layoffs the company is once more in default on the agreement. Chafee spent much of the conference answering increasingly hostile questions and reminding the gathering that he opposed the deal, which was made under another governor. He also said that celebrity may have played a factor in the state making the agreement, but that it never impacted his opinion on the deal. "When I looked at him I saw a business man, not a baseball player," he said. 38 Studios laid off all 379 employees, 288 of them in Rhode Island, yesterday afternoon in a terse email. Sources tell Polygon that the company had not been communicating with employees, or paying them, for nearly a month prior to the mass layoffs. Schilling's only public response to the financial turmoil that has embroiled both his company and the state of Rhode Island had been a tweet thanking people for sending "prayers and well wishes" to the team and families of 38 Studios. Curt Schilling@gehrig38 Thank you to everyone sending prayers and well wishes to the team and families of 38 Studios. 25 May 12 ReplyRetweetFavorite A similar post on his Facebook account was met with a tide of well wishers including a number of former employees and John Smedley, president of Sony Online Entertainment who wrote, "Curt – the game you are building is amazing. Find a way. I'm sorry you're having a tough time right now." The studio's financial turmoil came to light earlier this month when it first missed and then later made a $1.125 million payment to the state of Rhode Island. Founded in 2006 in Massachusetts as Green Monster Games, 38 Studios was lured to Rhode Island in 2010 by a $75-million loan guarantee from the state. At the time state officials argued that the studio would bring hundreds of jobs and millions in tax revenue to the state. While 38 Studios made its first partial payment, it then missed a $1.125 million loan payment to the Rhode Island Economic Development Corporation on May 1. During a series of meetings with the state, 38 Studios said it couldn't pay its employees and asked for more help from Rhode Island. The studio later delivered a payment to the state, but then said it couldn't cover the check. On May 18, it made good on the payment. Schilling, and the state, both continue to hunt for private investors for the company. If 38 Studios remains closed, the state says it has the money to make the first year of payments on the loan from a reserve they set aside pulled out of the loan amount. But after that the state would then have to start making the payments to the bank. The developer was working on a massively multiplayer online game codenamed "Project Copernicus." It released Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning through publisher EA in February. The game reportedly sold 1.2 million copies in the first 90 days, according to Schilling, and was positively received by critics. Last month, 38 released a downloadable expansion pack for the game titled "Teeth of Naros." Gov. Chafee dismissed the possibility of the state taking over the studio during a press conference earlier this week, saying it would be too costly to create and maintain an MMO. The director of the Economic Development Corporation resigned earlier this month and today the governor said that two other members of the board have asked not to be reappointed and another resigned this week. The state is also discussing asking for the resignation of other board members who supported the decision to back 38 Studios. A slew of developers from around the country have been Tweeting that they are hiring in hopes of finding the hundreds of displaced employees jobs. Catch up on the history of the studio and its deal with Rhode Island here.

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/...some-employees

[sflufan]

Jesus Christ -- that's just...I have no words.

[remnant]

Think of it this way. The current governor is on record saying some very anti-company sentiments, and this project was the previous governor's project. The current governor broke NDA's. It is possible that he promised them 8 million in tax credits for the 1.5 million or whatever they owed the state, then after receiving the check backed away from that offer. 38 has only been given 49 million of the 75 million dollars that was promised to them from the loan. Yeah, I think there's enough here to be a little skeptical of Rhode Island. We don't know the full story and only time will tell, but this does seem a bit odd.

It is interesting that the governor is really pushing the 75 million number when it isn't correct and he vaguely threw the 3 million dollar number out there regarding KOA.

Edit: Holy shit at Dbl mortage.

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

I hope those employees had savings accounts.

[ezekial45]

That is fucked uuuuuuuuuupppp.

Holy shit.

[remnant]

This is greek level financial incompetence.

[sflufan]

This is greek level financial incompetence.

Or California.

[Dorrin]

You know I came in here to bash 38 Studious about Kingdoms of Amalur locking out single player content. Well that and the delicious irony of a conservative not paying their taxes and looking for a bailout from the state... but holy shit at:

One former employee said they discovered this week that their Massachusetts home, which they had been told was sold last year, actually hadn't been. The bank contacted them this week to ask why they mortgage wasn't being paid.

I hope some mistake happened and this is just a crazy isolated issue... if not god damn. Really feeling for the let go workers, at least hope this home deal isn't wide spread.. I mean damn.

[massoluk]

Wow.. How many times can I say Wow in this thread? Yeah, you can probably blame the state on balking on $8 million promise, but this mortgage thing. There are no words.

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Wow.. How many times can I say Wow in this thread? Yeah, you can probably blame the state on balking on $8 million promise, but this mortgage thing. There are no words.

wow

[Fine Ham Abounds]

I seriously don´t get FOH and it´s pull on the mmorpg industry. Bunch of elitist pricks that think they know better.

FoH hasn't been relevant since Furor left, but damned if I haven't learned a ton of insider stuff from reading there over the years.

Also, the Rift guys posted there and Rift is still alive.

https://twitter.com/deliciousbees/st...44617051865089 https://twitter.com/#!/deliciousbees...46314356678656 http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/...some-employees

So I guess the rumors from the board were true. Truly sad.

[SolidSnakex]

This story is turning out to be even worse than the Team Bondi disaster.

[watership]

The mortgage thing! It's sounding unreal now, like a very bad tv movie. And to have it happen to those who took a risk and relocated.

Someone needs to go to jail.

[A Twisty Fluken]

This story is turning out to be even worse than the Team Bondi disaster.

.

My thoughts exactly.

[gogojira]

FoH hasn't been relevant since Furor left, but damned if I haven't learned a ton of insider stuff from reading there over the years.

Pretty much why I go there, too. Any time I think GAF can get ugly, I take a visit to FoH and I'm reminded of how utterly bitter most of those guys are. Reasonable discussion is beyond them, it's mostly just a string of cursing at each other.

But then I keep going because MMO vets still post, it's quite the dilemma.

[funkystudent]

Jesus Christ at this employee housing twist.



I was hoping some korean company would swoop in and save the MMO but fuck this company. Fuck Schilling.

Can we ban Curt from gaf for ruining hundreds of peoples lives? Is that in the TOS?

[Gav47]

The version on Steam is published by 38 Studios.

Yeah they self published on Steam. So I don't undersatnd this rurmor from Fine Ham Abound's post

The reason EA will not pay on time is because they have not received their check yet from Steam. Steam takes 5+ months to pay as they wait for the revenue to come in from the credit card companies that take 3+ months to pay at times. It's a circle jerk of money and EA won't put up until they get their share and then let it sit to make some interest off it.

[Baconsammy]

Rhode Island is pissed again.

[Dartastic]

Rhode Island is pissed again.

How the fuck can they give the state 60 days when they don't even have enough money to pay their employees? Durrrrrr

[Effect]

This whole thing has moved beyond sad to just disgusting if the housing issue is true.

I hope legal papers were signed and someone goes to jail over that.

[remnant]

Rhode Island is pissed again.

If 38 studios acted in good faith that if they paid RI the 1.25 mil and in return they would get tax credits to sell I would understand why they wouldn't want to shut down the studio's moths ago. Were they supposed to keep the entire workforce working for free and going deeper into dept for another 2 months? It's like RI strung them along.