[Solid warrior]

Read that thread. You will then understand that this guy will defend mass slaughter even if it happened right in front of him.

Let me be clear on this issue. I do not and will not defend mass slaughter. Unlike you, you seem to be skipping the news of mass slaughter caused by suicide bombing and car bombs done by your friendly "AlQaeda" rebels. :)

[Alienshogun]

Let me be clear on this issue. I do not and will not defend mass slaughter. Unlike you, you seem to be skipping the news of mass slaughter caused by suicide bombing and car bombs done by your friendly "AlQaeda" rebels. :)

Inevitably it will become an issue of who committed the "worst" atrocities in the same vein of how Serbia/Bosnia and Kosovo were handled. Both sides did some bad shit, but Serbia was way worse in what they did. Ultimately the issue becomes that it's a civil war, and "crimes" will be hard to determine, but at this point Syrian forces appear to be more heavy handed in criminal acts.

[Solid warrior]

Inevitably it will become an issue of who committed the "worst" atrocities in the same vein of how Serbia/Bosnia and Kosovo were handled. Both sides did some bad shit, but Serbia was way worse in what they did. Ultimately the issue becomes that it's a civil war, and "crimes" will be hard to determine, but at this point Syrian forces appear to be more heavy handed in criminal acts.

Yet the UN monitors are unable to produce an evidence of the "criminal acts".

[maquiladora]

"The Security Council condemned in the strongest possible terms the killings, confirmed by United Nations observers, of dozens of men, women and children and the wounding of hundreds more in the village of (Houla), near Homs, in attacks that involved a series of government artillery and tank shellings on a residential neighborhood"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...84Q0G420120527

[el retorno]

He's back!

[Sentry]

Solid warrior has valid points in some regards, but in others I think he's a bit off the mark.

However, i'll agree on the fact that this is a really complicated situation, no where near as simple as what went down in the surrounding regions. As much as it would be easier if it were simpler.

[Alienshogun]

Yet the UN monitors are unable to produce an evidence of the "criminal acts".

I don't think that's the case at all, and more is going to come out. By nature of the war as it is now information will trickle, once it's over or is beginning to conclude the flood gates will open. This has been the case in similar cases historically.

[Solid warrior]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...84Q0G420120527

They're basically confirming the Syrian government story, that there were 'shelling' against FSA militants. but they didn't kill the civilians.

Instead if you scroll down a little bit you'll find this paragraph in the same page, which states:

"The Security Council also condemned the killing of civilians by shooting at close range and by severe physical abuse,"

that's what Syrian government story is all about, the people were killed by guns (close range) and knives.

So, Now we know that the innocent civilians were not killed by shelling, instead it was close range gun shots and physical abuse. It looks like sectarian violence to me.

Does the UK and France feel ashamed now that they were rushing to blame the Syrian gov for massacre?

[Alienshogun]

They're basically confirming the Syrian government story, that there were 'shelling' against FSA militants. but they didn't kill the civilians. Instead if you scroll down a little bit you'll find this paragraph in the same page, which states: that's what Syrian government story is all about, the people were killed by guns (close range) and knives. So, Now we know that the innocent civilians were not killed by shelling, instead it was close range gun shots and physical abuse. It looks like sectarian violence to me.

Sectarian violence is not mutually exclusive from Syrian military actions. Again, these same kinds of acts happened in previous "genocides" just like the ones I've mentioned before committed by legitimate militaries and rebellion groups.

Don't get focused on "shelling" being the only thing going wrong. Just because people aren't being killed en mass by artillery doesn't mean that shelling civilian populated areas is suddenly "ok."

[crazy monkey]

my god he is back. I thought he was gone forever.

[el retorno]

They're basically confirming the Syrian government story, that there were 'shelling' against FSA militants. but they didn't kill the civilians. Instead if you scroll down a little bit you'll find this paragraph in the same page, which states: that's what Syrian government story is all about, the people were killed by guns (close range) and knives. So, Now we know that the innocent civilians were not killed by shelling, instead it was close range gun shots and physical abuse. It looks like sectarian violence to me. Does the UK and France feel ashamed now that they were rushing to blame the Syrian gov for massacre?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...ssad-relatives

Defectors from Syrian intelligence and security agencies, used by the regime to crush the revolt, claim that Assad's cousin issued shoot-to-kill orders against civilian protesters in Dera'a, the cradle of the insurrection. Kill quotas were reportedly issued to snipers tasked with assassinating pro-democracy activists. They allege that Assad's brother Maher, a senior army commander, was among senior figures operating out of a secret command centre in Dera'a when orders were issued to contain a protest march by all means necessary. More than 100 civilians were shot dead. In addition, Maher is accused of ordering the indiscriminate mass punishment of the entire male population of a troublesome town, al-Moudamya, last year. The defectors' testimony, to be broadcast by Channel 4 Dispatches on Monday night, has added resonance after a weekend when arguably the ugliest atrocity of the 15-month confrontation was perpetrated at Houla. Though the regime blamed rebels, western powers are adamant that regime tanks were responsible.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...lence-children

Residents say some victims were killed with knives, while many more died from 18 hours of relentless shelling that left buildings wrecked and homes destroyed in a large residential area near the centre of town.

[Solid warrior]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...ssad-relatives Defectors from Syrian intelligence and security agencies, used by the regime to crush the revolt, claim that Assad's cousin issued shoot-to-kill orders against civilian protesters in Dera'a, the cradle of the insurrection. Kill quotas were reportedly issued to snipers tasked with assassinating pro-democracy activists. They allege that Assad's brother Maher, a senior army commander, was among senior figures operating out of a secret command centre in Dera'a when orders were issued to contain a protest march by all means necessary. More than 100 civilians were shot dead. In addition, Maher is accused of ordering the indiscriminate mass punishment of the entire male population of a troublesome town, al-Moudamya, last year. The defectors' testimony, to be broadcast by Channel 4 Dispatches on Monday night, has added resonance after a weekend when arguably the ugliest atrocity of the 15-month confrontation was perpetrated at Houla. Though the regime blamed rebels, western powers are adamant that regime tanks were responsible.

Judging by today's circus at the UNSC caused by the UK and France, the Guardian/Channel 4 should reconsider their approach to the Houla massacre.

Residents say some victims were killed with knives, while many more died from 18 hours of relentless shelling that left buildings wrecked and homes destroyed in a large residential area near the centre of town.

Unfortunately, the deaths caused by shelling is still unconfirmed. Unlike the gunshots and knives story.

[el retorno]

Judging by today's circus at the UNSC caused by the UK and France, the Guardian/Channel 4 should reconsider their approach to the Houla massacre.

The Regime Claims and allege things as well. And the "circus" today was cause by the genocide defenders in the Russian and Chinese government who use faulty logic like your to pretend to be impartial to make themselves feel better about the innocent people who are on their hands.

And I edited another link in my post.

[Jackpot]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...ssad-relatives http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...lence-children

He'll never accept the sources.

[Solid warrior]

The Regime Claims and allege things as well. And the "circus" today was cause by the genocide defenders in the Russian and Chinese government who use faulty logic like your to pretend to be impartial to make themselves feel better about the innocent people who are on their hands. And I edited another link in my post.

Russians and Chinese refused the early UK/France draft which blamed the Syrian government of the massacre. Russia/China asked for UN Monitors chief to speak about the massacre in his video link speech. His story brought us the new UNSC statement which contained the gun shots and physical abuses. He couldn't blame the Syrian army, obviously.

[el retorno]

Russians and Chinese refused the early UK/France draft which blamed the Syrian government of the massacre. Russia/China asked for UN Monitors chief to speak about the massacre in his video link speech. His story brought us the new UNSC statement which contained the gun shots and physical abuses. He couldn't blame the Syrian army, obviously.

That's exactly what I'm saying they come up with BS excuses to justify defending a genocidal state.

[Solid warrior]

That's exactly what I'm saying they come up with BS excuses to justify defending a genocidal state.

I don't know what are you talking about.

Hopefully the Muslim brotherhood activists will learn the lesson of today. They're risking their credibility and the credibility of their allies as well (Read: UK/France) who most likely feels ashamed of the outcome.

[XMonkey]

Your avatar is perfect, Solid Warrior.

[el retorno]

Your avatar is perfect, Solid Warrior.

not its not, it ruins bowie for me :-(

[Solid warrior]

not its not, it ruins bowie for me :-(

I think this thread is not suitable to discuss avatars. I don't know.

[XMonkey]

not its not, it ruins bowie for me :-(

Fair point, but it's the perfect expression to make when reading his posts.

I think this thread is not suitable to discuss avatars. I don't know.

Oh sorry, back to serious thread time.

[theignoramus]

heroic acts of the rebels. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...0%93present%29

I've been following the uprising since it started in March of last year. The government tanks and shelling started at the end of April 2011 and went on for months without a single suicide bombing. it's very clear whose responsible for lion's share of the killing and who instigated it
where were you when the government went on for over a half year firing at unarmed protests , funerals,and storming mosques? There was no FSA then, that only came after months of inaction from the world community and escalating government repression.
I hope well meaning folks arent fooled by your little games and your false equivalence. anyone who takes a moment to look at the Syria news timeline from March 2011 onward can see through your smokescreen.

Let me be clear on this issue. I do not and will not defend mass slaughter.

lies.

[Kenny Blankenship]

why the fk did i decide to watch that. had to shut it off after a couple of seconds

[bjb]

Might be a silly question here, and let me pre-phase it by saying that I did not watch or study the entire video as it was quite disturbing.

That being said, these victims were killed by shells (explosions) and building debris correct?

It would seem, however, most of the bodies are completely intact. Am I missing something here in regards to the effects said damages would cause on the human body?

[theignoramus]

Might be a silly question here, and let me pre-phase it by saying that I did not watch or study the entire video as it was quite disturbing. That being said, these victims were killed by shells (explosions) and building debris correct? It would seem, however, most of the bodies are completely intact. Am I missing something here in regards to the effects said damages would cause on the human body?

many of the victims died from shelling, but others died from close range gunshots and stab wounds.

[bjb]

many of the victims died from shelling, but others died from close range gunshots and stab wounds.

Ah, I was not exactly clear on what the OP's quote entailed when it mentioned "massacre". Minus the shelling. Thanks

[Laughing Banana]

Terrible things happening in this world. Video didn't shock me though :/. I'm more curious about what the Xenoblade picture means.

The humans in the world of Xenoblade are called "Homs." Such a crass, disgusting thing to break a joke or a reference to a video game for something like this. I honestly thinking of putting Sadsic on my ignore list, although that will pretty much breaking my own rules of never putting anyone in an ignore list in Internet forums. Such a terrible way of trying to look "cool" or "funny" or "witty" or whatever.

Also, fuck Assad. I can't imagine the supposed "leader" of a country doing this kind of atrocity to his own citizens.

[GillianSeed79]

Welp, saw a kid with his brain cavity open like his head was peeled open like a grape fruit in that video. Looked like someone stuck a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. Another kid looked like they stuck a pistol in his mouth and pulled the trigger. Horrifying, but I owe it to those victims to watch it. I can't tell anymore if Solid Warrior is a troll account or if he's just brainwashed. I'm not sure I care. I don't even want to indulge you for half a fucking mili-second, but if what you believe is true - why? If you really believe Al Qeda boogey men are behind this, what tactical advantage do they gain by killing kids? How does that help an insurgency in the classical sense?

Besides that Solid Warrior, after watching that video - even with your belief this was done by terrorirsts - why not advocate for an international peace keeping force? I just saw a video with the top of a child's skull that has been blown off. Forget these arab league monitors. There should be peace keepers from every nation on the planet right now on every block in Syria.

Why should I hope, though, that anyone will do anything? Charles Taylor was only convicted in 2012 and Mladic's trial just started for war crimes that happened in 1992-1995. You already won Solid Warrior. You don't have to gloat. 15-20 years from now when Assad is in the Hague everyone in the west will all pretend to be shocked why we didn't do anything. I hate this world.

[KillGore]

what the shit? this is horrible

[Solid warrior]

Welp, saw a kid with his brain cavity open like his head was peeled open like a grape fruit in that video. Looked like someone stuck a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. Another kid looked like they stuck a pistol in his mouth and pulled the trigger. Horrifying, but I owe it to those victims to watch it. I can't tell anymore if Solid Warrior is a troll account or if he's just brainwashed. I'm not sure I care. I don't even want to indulge you for half a fucking mili-second, but if what you believe is true - why? If you really believe Al Qeda boogey men are behind this, what tactical advantage do they gain by killing kids? How does that help an insurgency in the classical sense?

Well, Alqaeda tactics are dumb. rephrase the question regarding the Iraqi situation, you'll get the answer.

What does AlQaeda gain by bombing markets and killing Iraqi children? None. Except chaos.

The idea behind funding and recruiting peasants, villagers and defectors is to create Chaos in Syria to have a pretext for NATO invasion just like in Libya. It didn't work out in Syria.

The longer this unrest takes, the more massacres you will see. because there are many militant groups in Syria that aren't even under the FSA umbrella. They are working on their own and they're promoting violent sectarian agenda. Who created these? NATO and their allies in the oasis of democracy of the Arabian Peninsula (Read: Qatar and Saudi Arabia). It's most likely that NATO members in UNSC will keep on selecting massacres to blame the syrian government for it.

Besides that Solid Warrior, after watching that video - even with your belief this was done by terrorirsts - why not advocate for an international peace keeping force? I just saw a video with the top of a child's skull that has been blown off. Forget these arab league monitors. There should be peace keepers from every nation on the planet right now on every block in Syria.

I'll not be an advocate for a peace keeping force, because it simply won't work and it NEVER worked before and it can't work in Syria for many reasons.

[theignoramus]

Al Qaeda is known for beheadings and acts of cruelty against non-Sunni Muslims.
These killings dont fit their modus operandi. I mean, even if the Assad regime had a shred of credibility, Id still be doubtful about any finger pointing at Sunni terrorists. The deaths are a combination of shelling from government soldiers and close quarters butchering by hired government thugs.

[params7]

Whatever happens, let them sort it out.

Do not invade.

[onemic]

Am not watching the video, but I do find it interesting that solid warrior uses every opportunity to defend all of assads actions. I may be mistaken, but didn't he at one point state that assad was more of a victim in this than a perpetarator? Nevertheless it seems as if either solid warrior has some connection with syria that's making him cast all blame toward assad and the military aside.(As you don't seem to want to admit fault to anything) or he gets some type of sick sadistic pleasure in seeing masses of innocents and children brutally murdered.

[Saadster]

Possibly the worst thing I have ever seen.

Unbelievable.

[filopilo]

Whatever happens, let them sort it out. Do not invade.

The nato / west agenda is regime change.

They already are training funding and arming the rebels (* ) and have been for some time (probably from the begining ).

It won't stop 'till they achieve that,whatever the price.
Then , there will be a mass slaughter of alaoui peoples ,and chaos.But nothing will be reported (like the slaughter of black lybians during and after the lybia war for "freedom"(tm) )

If anyone thinks here that all of this is for the good of the syrian people , they have a really bad memory and criminal ignorance of what recent "humanitarian wars" were all about.
Iraq ,afghanistan , lybie ,now syria ,an soon Iran ,are all about chaos and geopolitical power.

The rebels* are threatening ,killing ,torturing , the people of syria that don't want to fight with them ,pro assad ,or not.

Then they use their dead body for a western supported propaganda (SOHR ,your one and only source into the scandalous lives of the Assad regime -Basically,one single guy ,perfectly anti-regime ,and based in london )


Do your own research ,there is material , if you give any value for truth and real justice or want to keep a clean soul ,because mainstream media here is part of the problem (and has been for at least 11 years now)

I'm all with Solid warrior.100% .
And he's very brave to even reply here ,because the level of blindness is very high.



* whatever that term can mean , including non syrian al qaeda fighters and mercenaries who would do anything for money.

[L0st Id3ntity]

The nato / west agenda is regime change. They already are training funding and arming the rebels (* ) and have been for some time (probably from the begining ). The rebels* are threatening ,killing ,torturing , the people of syria that don't want to fight with them ,pro assad ,or not. Then they use their dead body for a western supported propaganda (SOHR ,your one and only source into the scandalous lives of the Assad regime -Basically,one single guy ,perfectly anti-regime ,and based in london ) Do your own research ,there is material , if you give any value for truth and real justice or want to keep a clean soul ,because mainstream media here is part of the problem (and has been for at least 11 years now)

syrian state tv

You should apply for the news room, those identical paragraphs are being read out loud there. You probably have it on 24/7.

[Solid warrior]

syrian state tv You should apply for the news room, those identical paragraphs are being read out loud there. You probably have it on 24/7.

The guy is expressing his opinion and you are accusing him of being a mouthpiece for the regime. Very poor, indeed.

How come you were missing after the recent UNSC circus? How come Houla massacre is not interesting to talk about anymore? Did I miss something?

[symphonask]

The deaths are a combination of shelling from government soldiers and close quarters butchering by hired government thugs.

This is the most likely scenario. The pro-Assad militia is known to shoot people point blank and butcher them.

[aznpxdd]

Holy shit. Could only make it to 15 secs before I had to close the vid, just sickening.

[Major_Lazer]

This is the most likely scenario. The pro-Assad militia is known to shoot people point blank and butcher them.

This topic will go nowhere, scenes like this will continue to happen and it will never be clear who is really to blame. I find it unlikely that Assad forces would go in and butcher people in close range when they have the artillery advantage but at the same time you can't excuse the actions of his armed forces.

This whole conflict is a terrible shade of grey where the 2 sides seem to have very shifty agendas and which ever news broadcasts you listen to will decide which side people at home will take.

[Sentry]

This topic will go nowhere, scenes like this will continue to happen and it will never be clear who is really to blame. I find it unlikely that Assad forces would go in and butcher people in close range when they have the artillery advantage but at the same time you can't excuse the actions of his armed forces. This whole conflict is a terrible shade of grey where the 2 sides seem to have very shifty agendas and which ever news broadcasts you listen to will decide which side people at home will take.

Pretty much my sentiments exactly.

[jaxword]

This topic will go nowhere, scenes like this will continue to happen and it will never be clear who is really to blame. I find it unlikely that Assad forces would go in and butcher people in close range when they have the artillery advantage but at the same time you can't excuse the actions of his armed forces. This whole conflict is a terrible shade of grey where the 2 sides seem to have very shifty agendas and which ever news broadcasts you listen to will decide which side people at home will take.

You could say this about every news story posted.

[phosphor112]

If you really believe Al Qeda boogey men are behind this, what tactical advantage do they gain by killing kids? How does that help an insurgency in the classical sense?

How does it hurt the cause? There is no proof Assad's forces did anything other than shelling (which IS terrible) but not as terrible as you said... sticking a gun in a kids mouth and shooting. I seriously don't see how you guys ignore Al-Qaeda as a factor. For more than a decade, they killed US troops, bombed local markets and even mosques during prayer. These people don't give a fuck. 2 bombs go off earlier in Syria attacking that Security building. They do a massive blow to the Syrian government, but there was a lot of collateral.

Also, if they can get blame on the SAF they can further the destruction of the regime. Hell, everything has been blamed on the SAF, even those two car bombs...which are again, clear tactics of Al-Qaeda... BBC, CNN, ABC, Leon Panetta himself has said Al-Qaeda has a presence there. How do we know? They came from Syria to Iraq while the US was there, and they're on their way back to familiar territory doing the same shit they have done for the past decade.

Besides that Solid Warrior, after watching that video - even with your belief this was done by terrorirsts - why not advocate for an international peace keeping force?

As long as it doesn't turn into Libya 2.0, I'm ok with this.

I just saw a video with the top of a child's skull that has been blown off. Forget these arab league monitors. There should be peace keepers from every nation on the planet right now on every block in Syria.

That video was gruesome. Arab League is a bigger joke than the UN can ever be. Turkey still thinks it's the Ottoman Empire, Saudi Arabia has been supporting the suppression of an uprising in Bahrain, while condemning the suppression in Syria. Many countries there are going through revolutions, they have no place in foreign affairs when they can't even settle their own.

Why should I hope, though, that anyone will do anything? Charles Taylor was only convicted in 2012 and Mladic's trial just started for war crimes that happened in 1992-1995. You already won Solid Warrior. You don't have to gloat. 15-20 years from now when Assad is in the Hague everyone in the west will all pretend to be shocked why we didn't do anything. I hate this world.

I don't think Assad will last that long. I think they'll have his head in a matter of years. While Assad's death will end the line of a family that ruled with an iron-fist, the idea of who might take over is honestly even more frightening.

[Peru]

Solid warrior, you're a disgusting human being.

[phosphor112]

This topic will go nowhere, scenes like this will continue to happen and it will never be clear who is really to blame. I find it unlikely that Assad forces would go in and butcher people in close range when they have the artillery advantage but at the same time you can't excuse the actions of his armed forces. This whole conflict is a terrible shade of grey where the 2 sides seem to have very shifty agendas and which ever news broadcasts you listen to will decide which side people at home will take.

I agree with this 100%.

Solid warrior, you're a disgusting human being.

I don't think he's explicitly supported Assad's actions. I may be mistaken.

You could say this about every news story posted.

So...your point?

[onemic]

I agree with this 100%. I don't think he's explicitly supported Assad's actions. I may be mistaken. So...your point?

He has defended him though. Even if part of what he is saying is right, there is no way Assad is not responsible for anything that has happened.

[phosphor112]

He has defended him though. Even if part of what he is saying is right, there is no way Assad is not responsible for anything that has happened.

That wording has hurt my head. But yeah, he's obviously done stuff. I think what he's debating is what exactly he's done... I think...

[Jackpot]

An impartial account of what happened, gathered from eyewitness testimony.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18233934

The picture being pieced together by activists, survivors and the limited number of international journalists and human rights organisations in Syria is of an attack that began with the army shelling the town and ended with militiamen [the shabiha, a sectarian civilian militia that supports Assad] killing people house-by-house late into the night. Reports suggest that at about 13:00 local time (11:00 GMT) on Friday, just after midday prayers, soldiers fired on a protest in Taldou in the Houla area to disperse the crowds. Some accounts say that opposition fighters then attacked the Syrian army position where the firing was coming from.

Activists and eyewitnesses say the Syrian army shelled the town, reportedly at first with tank fire then with mortars, in a sustained bombardment that lasted at least two hours. This tallies with UN accounts of tank and mortar shells in civilian areas. The UN Security Council issued a statement saying that "such outrageous use of force against civilian population constitutes a violation of applicable international law". Mr Makdissi [Syrian gov spokesperson] said that the army did not send tanks into the village and security forces remained in their defensive positions.

But according to activists and eyewitnesses interviewed by Human Rights Watch, British broadcaster Channel 4 and others, army shelling paved the way for a concerted ground attack by the Alawite-dominated pro-government militia, the shabiha. Their reports suggest that men from the shabiha entered peoples houses in army fatigues and either cut their throats or shot them in the head from approximately 16:00 to 01:00 on Saturday morning.

and just for lafs:

"Women, children and old men were shot dead. This is not the hallmark of the heroic Syrian army," foreign ministry spokesperson Jihad Makdissi told reporters in Damascus.

Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said it was clear the army had used tank shells but not who shot civilians at point blank range.

Shooting people with small arms = not heroic. Shooting people with tank shells = heroic!

I'm glad it spares us the gory details. No doubt the mass-murder fans will claim the town killed all their families themselves and then lied about it to the CIA journalists just to stir up hatred.

[CHEEZMO™]

I like how my Solid Warrior impersonation was nowhere near the genuine crazy.

[Dubbedinenglish]

But according to activists and eyewitnesses interviewed by Human Rights Watch, British broadcaster Channel 4 and others, army shelling paved the way for a concerted ground attack by the Alawite-dominated pro-government militia, the shabiha. Their reports suggest that men from the shabiha entered peoples houses in army fatigues and either cut their throats or shot them in the head from approximately 16:00 to 01:00 on Saturday morning.

Shades of Rwanda. Government sends in the thugs and "washes" its hands of wrongdoing.