[markot]

This is stupid.

[DarkFlow]

Really a single carrier? Maybe I'm underestimating and being cynical but I find it hard to believe. Now a an entire fleet? Sure. Carrier? Maybe?

A carrier is basically a floating part of us land. That's how they treat it anyway. You attack and sink a few billion dollars and damn right we are going to bring the hammer down like no other.

[Slayven]

Right wing porrn is hilarious. Seriously the way they explain guns down to the serial number and shit is something else.

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I like how the company that operates the Panama canal is just like "LOL we're closed" and the US Navy is just like " OK :("

[Yagharek]

I like how the company that operates the Panama canal is just like "LOL we're closed" and the US Navy is just like " OK :("

Exactly my thoughts. If it came to a war or attack, their own engineers would be parachuted in quicksmart.

[Steelrain]

He's just a conspiracy nut and a young earth creationist. I don't believe that nationalism is among his flaws.

Really? Oh wow.

[FairyD]

I like how the company that operates the Panama canal is just like "LOL we're closed" and the US Navy is just like " OK :("

Tell that to the British.

[colinisation]

The sheer stupidity of articles published on the internet continues to astound.

[FartOfWar]

The article doesn't speculate it to be a conventional 'war' as many of you are writing about. Read the passage I posted for more information

I haven't gotten to the subsequent pages, but so far nobody's noted the obvious: Hawk wants his budget and his way, so he concocts a Grisham cautionary tale to literally scare up dollars and support for his pet U.S. service.

[SMT]

It seems the FPRi.org allows for fan-fiction, and proudly posts it as a reputable resource.

[Pylon_Trooper]

I love this kind of stuff, more for just the pop-hypothetical scenarios ripe for discussion.

It's why I'll always turn to George Friedman for my what-if scenario fun. After all, you Yanks should already have gone to war with Japan again by now, going by his logic.

Really enjoyed his The Next 100 Years tome, just for the sheer Clancyisms of it all.

[akira28]

So build more ships? Buy War bonds? Don't sleep on China?

(I'm assuming that no one is sleeping on China...) I was with the paper until page 8 where they start using the global media against the US so we'll 'lose face' if we respond with a buildup. Like the US wouldn't use a local proxy to cause China trouble, or even manufacture an incident of their own.

The paper to me seems like an attempt to build a case for increasing naval assets. The 'what if China sucker punched us really good' scenario might play well in some circles, but to attack, claim an accident, and then try to use global opinions of namely "the Asians" to actually blame us for it happening? That's going a bit too far. The slant of the author is just too slanted. And the loss of a carrier, to an accident? To claim that the missile strike was an accident?? The American military wouldn't stand for it, they'd park on China's doorstep and start something just to prove a point. It's just something China wouldn't start, because it wouldn't end with a bloody nose and a loss of billions of dollars, with both sides knowing what happened, but America unable to act with it's hands tied. It would ruin any plans China had economically unless they're finished with us, and it would ruin any future plans of future American/Chinese cooperation because trust would be over. First the military, then the Congress, and finally the people saying there's no good reason to even deal with China. Buy American. It's an interesting hypothetical scenario, but it just wouldn't happen. America would willingly throw money into naval development, and China would be on the shit list. This isn't TMZ or even CNN, it would be the American resurgence part 2. And Russia better keep their heads down.

[antonz]

So build more ships? Buy War bonds? Don't sleep on China? (I'm assuming that no one is sleeping on China...) I was with the paper until page 8 where they start using the global media against the US so we'll 'lose face' if we respond with a buildup. Like the US wouldn't use a local proxy to cause China trouble, or even manufacture an incident of their own. The paper to me seems like an attempt to build a case for increasing naval assets. The 'what if China sucker punched us really good' scenario might play well in some circles, but to attack, claim an accident, and then try to use global opinions of namely "the Asians" to actually blame us for it happening? That's going a bit too far. The slant of the author is just too slanted. And the loss of a carrier, to an accident? To claim that the missile strike was an accident?? The American military wouldn't stand for it, they'd park on China's doorstep and start something just to prove a point. It's just something China wouldn't start, because it wouldn't end with a bloody nose and a loss of billions of dollars, with both sides knowing what happened, but America unable to act with it's hands tied. It would ruin any plans China had economically unless they're finished with us, and it would ruin any future plans of future American/Chinese cooperation because trust would be over. First the military, then the Congress, and finally the people saying there's no good reason to even deal with China. Buy American. It's an interesting hypothetical scenario, but it just wouldn't happen. America would willingly throw money into naval development, and China would be on the shit list. This isn't TMZ or even CNN, it would be the American resurgence part 2. And Russia better keep their heads down.

As you said this kind of thing would be alot like Pearl Harbor in the fact it would unify the country again and give a very visible target that isnt held in high regard to most Americans in the first place.

The Panama Canal stuff is a laugh because we would just storm the area and retake it. We built the damn thing and some chinese company certainly wouldnt stop us from using it. The Mothball fleet would likely be unmothballed and a massive build up of forces would occur. Have to wake up the old Gals but in a few months they would be upto snuff

[Matthew Gallant]

How Hitler Got Laser Guns From Time Travelers And Won World War VI

[PhoenixPause]

China cannot possibly challenge the US Navy or Air Force right now, come the fuck on. How many super carriers do they have again?

[Pylon_Trooper]

China cannot possibly challenge the US Navy or Air Force right now, come the fuck on. How many super carriers do they have again?

It's their stealth ULTRA Carriers that folks should be on the lookout for.

[DanteFox]

I dislike the country so much I've decided to go on vacation there this summer.

where

[Chibits12]

The US right now is repositioning themselves in the Pacific. China's so-called "ancestral claims" on the Senkaku Islands with Japan and the Scarborough Shoal with the Philippines without the use of UNCLOS is a way to assert their power in the region and to see how the Americans would react.

I highly doubt what the think-thank wrote would happen in 2015 even if China spends more and more on their military. Given that the United States has many allies in the region (SE Asia, SK, Japan, Australia), I doubt China would do something that crazy. Then again, anything's possible.

Interesting fact though: China is now spending more of their military funds to boost their navy to protect their coastal cities, especially Beijing.

China wants to get paid; the last thing they want to do is a war with America or else they'll never see their more than trillion dollars again.

[Ridli]

It seems the FPRi.org allows for fan-fiction, and proudly posts it as a reputable resource.

Thank you. I was trying to sum up how this reads and "poorly researched fanfic" is about as accurate as it can get. We just need to tie in a side story about Sonic finding Jesus to really seal the deal.

[DarthWoo]

China cannot possibly challenge the US Navy or Air Force right now, come the fuck on. How many super carriers do they have again?

Not to say that you're wrong at the moment, but this line of thinking has been persisted throughout time and ultimately been proven wrong with regards to other subjects. Replace super carriers with battleships or heavy tanks or galleons or mounted knights and so on. As mentioned, the ASBMs are growing to be a legitimate threat, and carriers won't be the supposedly invulnerable power that most people see them to be forever.

[antonz]

The US right now is repositioning themselves in the Pacific. China's so-called "ancestral claims" on the Senkaku Islands with Japan and the Scarborough Shoal with the Philippines without UNCLOS is a way to assert their power in the region and to see how the Americans would react. I highly doubt what the think-thank wrote would happen in 2015 even if China spends more and more on their military. Given that the United States has many allies in the region (SE Asia, SK, Japan, Australia), I doubt China would do something that crazy. Then again, anything's possible. Interesting fact though: China is now spending more of their military funds to boost their navy to protect their coastal cities, especially Beijing. China wants to get paid; the last thing they want to do is a war with America or else they'll never see their more than trillion dollars again.

Exactly. China would have to have some crazy Coup happen and a government take over that wants global domination or something. While The Washington being suck would be a blow it would simply cause a major shift in resources and likely reactivating of the current mothballed Carriers.

It certainly wouldnt be a crippling blow. I mean in the absolute worst case the US Could very quickly begin retrofitting of a few of the Museum ships like the Midway which is modern enough to be effective and be ready faster than building a new carrier

[SMT]

Thank you. I was trying to sum up how this reads and "poorly researched fanfic" is about as accurate as it can get. We just need to tie in a side story about Sonic finding Jesus to really seal the deal.

Don't forget Jesus turning into a super-hedgehog in the inevitable fan-art to follow suit.

''I found Jesus!''

[Slayven]

This paper didn't take into account Barrack "Operation Caliphate" Obama.

[Chibits12]

The thing with China though is that their news sources and books are all filled with propaganda and half-truths since they are under Communist rule. Same thing could be said in the western world but they control and manipulate at will. China also has a lot of issues: the Bo Xilai scandal, the rampant corruption within the party and the current downturn in the economy.

Foreigners who have settled in China are noticing more xenophobia as well.

If you read one of their history books, I wouldn't be surprised that they'll be claiming the whole South China Sea as part of their territory.

Ok I'll end it here. Woot it's Sonic and Jesus!

[Slayven]

So build more ships? Buy War bonds? Don't sleep on China? (I'm assuming that no one is sleeping on China...) I was with the paper until page 8 where they start using the global media against the US so we'll 'lose face' if we respond with a buildup.

When have America cared what others think? Sink a carrier and nothing would get past "Eye of the Tiger" as the whole country goes into an A-team building montage.

[PantherLotus]

someone post that image where it shows every carrier the US has compared to every other nation.

[SpaceBridge]

someone post that image where it shows every carrier the US has compared to every other nation.

This one?

[dmann]

China has one barely functional Soviet-era carrier that they are still refitting for operations. It will be decades before they have any resemblance of a carrier battle group.

Their carrier tech is pretty much non-existent.

[eastmen]

The intrepid could even be used again if needed , part of its renovations in 2006-8 was to modernise it again.

The USA has alot of musuem ships that can be called into service if need be.

[Death Dealer]

This one?

What's the largest air force in the world ?

US Air Force

What's the second largest air force in the world ?

US Navy

[Jackpot]

China cannot possibly challenge the US Navy or Air Force right now, come the fuck on. How many super carriers do they have again?

One retro-fitted Russian carrier. It's not a PoS but it's still a league below US carriers.

[Aselith]

What is the other thread referred to in the OP?

[PdotMichael]

What's the deal with the who has the biggest dick?
The last 10 years showed impressively that this is just big waste of money and time.

[Laughing Banana]

He's just a conspiracy nut and a young earth creationist. I don't believe that nationalism is among his flaws.

Hahaha what?

[akira28]

Hahaha what?

Yeah, I don't really believe that.

What is the other thread referred to in the OP?

The one about China's ultimatum to Australia. To chose China or the US for support, but not both.(snicker)

[Horse Detective]

So will this be DLC for Fallout 4?

My man

[Para bailar La Bomba]

This one?

It's no coincidence that the UK has 4. Conventional naval strategy provides that's the minimum a fleet should carry.

In other words, if you haven't got four, you may as well have none.

[Kabouter]

It's no coincidence that the UK has 4. Conventional naval strategy provides that's the minimum a fleet should carry. In other words, if you haven't got four, you may as well have none.

The image is incorrect. The Royal Navy has one (light) aircraft carrier in active service, the HMS Illustrious, which will be decommissioned in 2015. It is in the process of building two much larger aircraft carriers, which will be the Royal Navy's only carriers, the HMS Queen Elizabeth will be the first of the two to be commissioned, which is planned to happen in 2016. The United States of America is the only nation in the world with four or more carriers. It possesses eleven, with one in reserve.

[Death Dealer]

Not to say that you're wrong at the moment, but this line of thinking has been persisted throughout time and ultimately been proven wrong with regards to other subjects. Replace super carriers with battleships or heavy tanks or galleons or mounted knights and so on. As mentioned, the ASBMs are growing to be a legitimate threat, and carriers won't be the supposedly invulnerable power that most people see them to be forever.

The ASBM threat to carriers is somewhat over-hyped. At sufficient distances, the circular error probable (CEP) is such that if the CVN is swerving back and forth at a high speed, it would be very difficult to hit. And China would need a direct hit with a kinetic weapon.

If they had a credible ASBM deterrent, the carrier battle group would have to keep a larger distance and it would degrade the effectiveness of its air operations, but they would operate with enough space so that the ASBM would have a hard time hitting them.

I think the latest guided surface to anti-ship missiles such as the sunburn are more of a realistic threat. A couple of hundred of those aimed at a carrier could do a lot of damage.

Carriers are the most visible force in the Navy but I think the submarine force alone could easily destroy the entire Chinese Navy and merchant shipping fleet in short order. A MK48 torpedo is an extremely potent heavyweight torpedo. Just one of them will sink any vessel smaller than an aircraft carrier. Surface ships are almost sitting ducks for a submarine. And there is always the counter of the converted conventionally armed SSBNs, the modern capital ships of the Navy. Unlike the hypothetical Chinese ASBM system, they are mobile and practically invulnerable to attack before they attack first.

A couple of Chinese submarines, getting lucky in the right place at the right time, would have a better chance at sinking a CVN than an ASBM system IMO.

China doesn't want an outright war because they would definitely lose. But many decades from now, it's foreseeable that could change. That's why the DOD still spends all the money on defense. To "stay on top of things". Not saying I agree with it. I like Ron Paul's foreign policy better than the President Obama's, but that's how the thinking at the Pentagon goes, and how they justify it.

[SteveWD40]

lolthinktanks.

I find it funny though how many Americans get off on waving some of kind "military" dick around on the internet, as if that force is somehow under their command? it's like the ultimate "my dad could beat up your dad" mentality.

[Indrid Cold1]

lolthinktanks. I find it funny though how many Americans get off on waving some of kind "military" dick around on the internet, as if that force is somehow under their command? it's like the ultimate "my dad could beat up your dad" mentality.

There's probably just as many jealous people from other countries who throw this sort of condescending shout around about yanks on the Internet though.

The American military juggernaut is definitely something to be patriotic and proud of, the scale of the forces they could array against an enemy and how quickly they could do so is unprecedented.

I think their biggest enemy is complacency and an unwillingness to adapt. I remember reading about a war game they played where some retired old admiral managed to obliterate a fleet using the type of unconventional tactics that a smaller enemy would use, and instead of learning from this they banned him from using those type of tactics, restarted the game and just steamrolled him. I think the guy actually quit in disgust. That's the type of shit I feel will come back to bite the US in the arse.

[Jason Raize '75 - '04]

There's probably just as many jealous people from other countries who throw this sort of condescending shout around about yanks on the Internet though. The American military juggernaut is definitely something to be patriotic and proud of, the scale of the forces they could array against an enemy and how quickly they could do so is unprecedented. I think their biggest enemy is complacency and an unwillingness to adapt. I remember reading about a war game they played where some retired old admiral managed to obliterate a fleet using the type of unconventional tactics that a smaller enemy would use, and instead of learning from this they banned him from using those type of tactics, restarted the game and just steamrolled him. I think the guy actually quit in disgust. That's the type of shit I feel will come back to bite the US in the arse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

[Smiles and Cries]

Fan Fic

fixed

[Archer]

The intrepid could even be used again if needed , part of its renovations in 2006-8 was to modernise it again. The USA has alot of musuem ships that can be called into service if need be.

stealth Battleship plug

...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17686107



This has been interesting, and is not over.

[SteveWD40]

There's probably just as many jealous people from other countries who throw this sort of condescending shout around about yanks on the Internet though. The American military juggernaut is definitely something to be patriotic and proud of, the scale of the forces they could array against an enemy and how quickly they could do so is unprecedented.

We have different ideas of what people should be proud of, also labelling detractors of jingoism as "jealous" is mental midget territory.

[Indrid Cold1]

Thanks for the link Jason Raize.

Hopefully the US Navy will have learned some lessons from that exercise, what a shambles.

But back on topic I believe China sinking an aircraft carrier with a cruise missile and getting away with it to be highly, highly unlikely. I would love to be payed good money to sit around dreaming unlikely scenarios such as that up.

[Megalodactyl]

I'm sure china would intentionally contaminate their fishing waters with radioactive waste. Because thats not insane at at all! /endsarcasm

[Ignis Fatuus]

Hahaha what?

Yeah, I don't really believe that.

He thinks that carbon dating is bullshit and that dinosaurs walked the earth a few thousand years ago. He admits to being deeply religious, just don't ever ask him directly if he's a young earth creationist. He'll refuse to answer.

For the record:

I'm no expert on biochemistry but from what I understand of it as far is the reason for this controversy is that there is no known preservative that could produce protein fragments not to decay for millions of years. And as such, the suggestion behind these findings is that e.g. the Tyrannosaurus' must have still been walking the Earth thousands of years ago.

He got shot down so hard in that thread that he's avoided mentioning it since, but carbon dating is some kind of conspiracy to him. The bible and its stories? Those he'll believe without much fuss.

[Rubezh]

The image is incorrect. The Royal Navy has one (light) aircraft carrier in active service, the HMS Illustrious, which will be decommissioned in 2015. It is in the process of building two much larger aircraft carriers, which will be the Royal Navy's only carriers, the HMS Queen Elizabeth will be the first of the two to be commissioned, which is planned to happen in 2016. The United States of America is the only nation in the world with four or more carriers. It possesses eleven, with one in reserve.

The HMS Illustrious has actually been converted into a helicopter carrier. It no longer has any VTOL aircraft due to the Harrier scrappage two years ago. With that in mind I don't even think the UK should be on that image at all.

[SquiddyCracker]

Regarding the story in the OP:

The first event just wouldn't happen.
China would never fire upon a U.S.A ship, any attack would never be traceless, and the resultant response would be immediate war and possibly even nuclear attacks from the U.S to quickly establish victory in a matter of days.