[Gentleman Jack]

Makes sense to me. It's just contains some parenthetical elements.

It makes sense, but it's an utterly empty statement and poor form for an opening argument. Tell me which one is more profound than the others:

"Gamers have not been known to tolerate culture changes well.."
"Sports fans have not been known to tolerate culture changes well."
"Europeans have not been known to tolerate culture changes well."
"My two pet cats have not been known to tolerate culture changes well."

Faulkner she ain't.

She then proceeds to fill the article with hand-waving about the alleged dev community hostility towards indie developers. Something something IGF, blah blah hipster stereotypes. My primary desires with this article are to wiki edit it with [citation needed], [who?] and [weasel words] marks everywhere. She provides zero specifics, either because she doesn't have any or refuses to name names out of fear she'll upset a publisher and lose access. My money's on the latter. What a shitty, timid article I've read here. "Stop being mean to indies, unnamed veteran developers and big publishers, but keep giving me access and free games!"

[Joe Shlabotnik]

It would help if half the thread wasn't picking apart her one mention of DLC and interpreting that to indicate that the article is a pro-big-publisher, anti-indie, anti-hardcore screed. It'd also help if the rest of the thread wasn't about how that uppity bitch should just shut up. The article's tone is actually pretty conciliatory.

It's true, nobody ever complains about Tim Rogers or Phil Fish or Jonathan Blow!

I don't find the article particularly offensive, myself, just terribly unfocused. It's a fraction of a half-baked notion that some editor should have told her to develop further or write something else.

[MTMBStudios]

Fear of a hipster planet.

[mdtauk]

Hipster culture is about small groups who try to stay under the radar - Although they seem to be dominating the tech and blogging comunities! - and appreciate being below the mainstream.

Gaming has for years been trying to legitimise the media and become an accepted mainstream form of entertainment.

This cultural divide will be tough to overcome, especially as the tech and gaming worlds are colliding more and more.

As much as I may dislike the Hipster communities, they have the right to embrace gaming culture's "sacred cows". I don't mind this as long as they do not start to dominate.


Personally I blame iOS and Apple.

[Dictator93]

Hipster culture is about small groups who try to stay under the radar - Although they seem to be dominating the tech and blogging comunities! - and appreciate being below the mainstream. Gaming has for years been trying to legitimise the media and become an accepted mainstream form of entertainment. This cultural divide will be tough to overcome, especially as the tech and gaming worlds are colliding more and more. As much as I may dislike the Hipster communities, they have the right to embrace gaming culture's "sacred cows". I don't mind this as long as they do not start to dominate. Personally I blame iOS and Apple.

I want to quote you just to show you how much I agree with you. Thank you

[Shurs]

Faulkner she ain't.

Yes, because Faulkner a completely reasonable baseline for the writing skills of game journalists.

[MrGame&Watch]

GAF proving Leigh's point.

I saw nothing wrong with the article. She's describing the reactionaries pretty accurately.

[Palette Swap]

wow, this thread good job rebutting the article guys i mean you've totally told her

How about:

a) The introduction lumps together a lot of different forms of "conservatism", implying they're all bad and any change should be welcome, if gamers were more open minded. This is a pretty huge fallacy. Equating people who hate DLC and anti-consumer practices to people who hate any kind of blue ocean approach to assholes who will harass online an embarrassingly stupid Bioware dev doesn't make any sense. At the same time, she identifies these behaviors/opinions to "gamers" as a whole, who are defined as being a vocal hardcore community who express themselves online. This doesn't make any sense but clearly implies that you should be happy with whatever business model you're asked to get behind. Otherwise, you're obviously a misogynistic mouth breather.

b) She goes on to state that anyway, hobbyists have always been uncool basement dwellers, with very limited social skills. At least they could hide in their own communities. Since it's only a generalization, I'll give anecdotal counter-examples: I'm 33 and in the past 20-25 years, I've seen a lot of people I know engrossed in games (or movies or books) and that has never prevented us from having a successful social, romantic or professional life. We're all married with kids, have friends and pretty nice jobs that require social interactions. The only interesting debate would be to know who's the most representative of gamers as a whole: my friends and I or the usual cliché? Well, we can't know without hard data and she didn't feel the need to provide any. That's why games journalism gets quotation marks every time it's mentioned. Meanwhile, it's just another strawman used to make a point.

c) She then goes on to fill a third of the article essentially saying "well, I don't know what a hipster is but we sure do wonder what they are. Also, being unable to define it shouldn't prevent me from using it in broad statements."

d) She then goes on to say older guys in the industry equate hipsters and indie devs. Nevermind neither is clearly defined.

e) That's when she says people are wary of indie games because they are made by hipsters and goes on to defend indie games. Except outside of her circular logic, I really don't think gamers as a whole dislike indie devs. If anything, it's the opposite. That allows her to conclude

The most offensive thing about the article is not that it lays the blame on gamers, or that it is poorly written and thought out.
What really makes it bad is that at no point does she wonder if the enemies of creativity, the really conservative forces aren't her corporate overlords, rather than consumers or older developers.

[Seraphinianus]

How about: a) The introduction lumps together a lot of different forms of "conservatism", implying they're all bad and any change should be welcome, if gamers were more open minded. This is a pretty huge fallacy. Equating people who hate DLC and anti-consumer practices to people who hate any kind of blue ocean approach to assholes who will harass online an embarrassingly stupid Bioware dev doesn't make any sense. At the same time, she identifies these behaviors/opinions to "gamers" as a whole, who are defined as being a vocal hardcore community who express themselves online. This doesn't make any sense but clearly implies that you should be happy with whatever business model you're asked to get behind. Otherwise, you're obviously a misogynistic mouth breather. b) She goes on to state that anyway, hobbyists have always been uncool basement dwellers, with very limited social skills. At least they could hide in their own communities. Since it's only a generalization, I'll give anecdotal counter-examples: I'm 33 and in the past 20-25 years, I've seen a lot of people I know engrossed in games (or movies or books) and that has never prevented us from having a successful social, romantic or professional life. We're all married with kids, have friends and pretty nice jobs that require social interactions. The only interesting debate would be to know who's the most representative of gamers as a whole: my friends and I or the usual cliché? Well, we can't know without hard data and she didn't feel the need to provide any. That's why games journalism gets quotation marks every time it's mentioned. Meanwhile, it's just another strawman used to make a point. c) She then goes on to fill a third of the article essentially saying "well, I don't know what a hipster is but we sure do wonder what they are. Also, being unable to define it shouldn't prevent me from using it in broad statements." d) She then goes on to say older guys in the industry equate hipsters and indie devs. Nevermind neither is clearly defined. e) That's when she says people are wary of indie games because they are made by hipsters and goes on to defend indie games. Except outside of her circular logic, I really don't think gamers as a whole dislike indie devs. If anything, it's the opposite. That allows her to conclude The most offensive thing about the article is not that it lays the blame on gamers, or that it is poorly written and thought out. What really makes it bad is that at no point does she wonder if the enemies of creativity, the really conservative forces aren't her corporate overlords, rather than consumers or older developers.

there, this is how its done.

[Crewnh]

So you insult everyone on gaf for not wasting their time breaking down how stupid her article is and then proceed to praise the dude who does.

Okay dude.

[SmithnCo]

GAF proving Leigh's point. I saw nothing wrong with the article. She's describing the reactionaries pretty accurately.

Proving her point that gamers are up-in-arms over indie games by criticizing her article which is full of unsubstantiated generalizations? What?

[Neuromancer]

Agreed, there are 775 million better ways to write that article.

I declare that to be an illegal amount of ways.

Edit: damn beaten a hundred pages ago

[Gentleman Jack]

Yes, because Faulkner a completely reasonable baseline for the writing skills of game journalists.

Hey if you're going to double-parenthetical in the passive voice in one phrase you better be ready for the comparison.

[Cerebral Assassin]

GAF proving Leigh's point. I saw nothing wrong with the article. She's describing the reactionaries pretty accurately.

The article is based on assumptions she provides no evidence for, & she uses terms she is unable to define with any accuracy, & she completely neglected to mention why the swapping of one niche for another is progress.

[Dragonzord]

lol those people aren't 'cool' people.

[Seraphinianus]

So you insult everyone on gaf for not wasting their time breaking down how stupid her article is and then proceed to praise the dude who does. Okay dude.

So you think I was insulting "everyone on gaf" for "not wasting their time" and then proceed to hammer me for that.

Okay dude.


actually, I was insulting idiots who thought a good response to an article would be 10 pages of insulting the writer...i.e. giving her even more publicity/hits and making the thread ironic in the process. I just thought it would be nice for someone to actually read and address the article instead of taking the bait for once. And there are plenty of fine posts in the thread, so it's not even a big deal. But thanks for playing

[Moofers]

People don't hate "hipster" games, people hate bad games that hide behind the coat of "uniqueness" and self-obsessed game designers who think they're single-handedly progressing games as an art.

Word. When I see stuff like "You're games all SUCK, Japan!", it makes me not take whathisname seriously.

[les papillons sexuels]

the hardcore gamers are also the hipsters of gaming. They're the most trend heavy, reactionary, and sheep like gamers out there.

[Wthermans]

The problem isn't with "hipster" developers, it's that their games are often shallow, or their gameplay mechanics lacking. Everyone can pay. It's totally democratic.

Good ole poll taxes.

[The Boat]

Hipster culture is about small groups who try to stay under the radar - Although they seem to be dominating the tech and blogging comunities! - and appreciate being below the mainstream.

I actually view hipster culture as people who pretend to be trying to stay under the radar when in reality they're actually trying to stand out. Or is that indie culture? Hard to keep track of all these labels and stereotypes, so who gives a fuck.

[Cerebral Assassin]

the hardcore gamers are also the hipsters of gaming. They're the most trend heavy, reactionary, and sheep like gamers out there.

Define what a hardcore gamer is(if it is simply someone who plays a lot of games/takes an interest in the industry as well as the products then your comparison doesn't stand up).

[Crewnh]

actually, I was insulting idiots who thought a good response to an article would be 10 pages of insulting the writer...i.e. giving her even more publicity/hits and making the thread ironic in the process. I just thought it would be nice for someone to actually read and address the article instead of taking the bait for once. And there are plenty of fine posts in the thread, so it's not even a big deal. But thanks for playing

Why didn't you do so yourself if you thought it was worth breaking down. Clearly most people thought it wasn't worth the effort.

[Vibri]

Dear Leigh,
Please stop writing. Forever.
- Your embarrassed future self.


PS:

Dear Edge,
Really?
- A former admirer.

[Glass Rebel]

actually, I was insulting idiots who thought a good response to an article would be 10 pages of insulting the writer...i.e. giving her even more publicity/hits and making the thread ironic in the process. I just thought it would be nice for someone to actually read and address the article instead of taking the bait for once. And there are plenty of fine posts in the thread, so it's not even a big deal. But thanks for playing

I'm pretty sure I put more thought in my 1 sentence posts than she did in her article.

[jono51]

Honestly, this is the first time I've heard that there are people complaining about hipster developers. I mean, sure, I've seen people complain about DLC, casual gamers etc. But complaining about hipsters in the games industry? Really?

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Why didn't you do so yourself if you thought it was worth breaking down. Clearly most people thought it wasn't worth the effort.

Someone has to dismiss the dismissers.

[theBishop]

"Casual Gamers" are threatening because of the game design trends they gobble up.

What game design trends do 'hipsters' bring to the table?

[injurai]

Hipster game designers are just basement coders that are putting on a persona to appeal to the masses. They are just one of us, otherwise they wouldn't be making games would they.

[SteelAttack]

I'm so hardcore I only play MW2 and dwarf fortress.

Pen and paper Dwarf Fortress is where it's at.

[hammster]

I usually reslly like Leigh and I actually think she probably has a good point somewhere in this article. It's just stuff like the DLC comment that completely detract from what she's saying.

A certain vocal subsection of people who play games ARE resistant to change. Response to Wii/iOS/Kinect/DS etc are clear evidence of this (not saying these platforms are perfect, merely that they are frequently not treated with anything approaching open mindedness by a certain minority). It's weird because I tend to mainly associate this group with mainstream game journos.
It is good that the industry is getting an influx of 'hip' creative types. Games need to expand from the current demographic majorly. Most people can find a tv show or film that they enjoy, right? Why not a game too?

*shrugs* Not a good article by any stretch of the imagination though.

[fushi]

I apologize, but what follows is quickly written rambling post. I've read more articles by Leigh than I can count and... yeah.

It would help if half the thread wasn't picking apart her one mention of DLC and interpreting that to indicate that the article is a pro-big-publisher, anti-indie, anti-hardcore screed. It'd also help if the rest of the thread wasn't about how that uppity bitch should just shut up. The article's tone is actually pretty conciliatory.

jiji, I respect you, like you, etc., but read the article and tell me if it isn't just another one of those "Leigh pieces".

I'll quote some parts of it for you and let you be the judge.

Gamers – that is to say hardcore fans of traditional games who participate in community behaviours online, rather than those who would include games on a list of many preferred activities – have not been known to tolerate culture changes well.

Paraphrasing: "People who are in one way or another emotionally invested into gaming are by and large ignorant." I particularly dislike the word "traditional" being included there because by saying that she specifically calls out the sort of people most interested in preserving the gaming culture that was. This includes people like you and me.

Rather than saying anything as to why there is this schism between the traditional and the new, why there is reluctance, she just flat-out labels them negatively without recourse.

And it was even quite recently that a clutch of them undertook a jawdropping campaign of harassment against one of BioWare’s story-writing female employees for expressing her gaming preferences.

Paraphrasing: "Oh yeah, remember those same ignorant gamers I told you about before? They're also chauvinists! Because they verbally attacked a female!" Was it really that important that it was a female? I don't think so. Then again, I didn't follow this campaign againt BioWare very closely, but apparently I should have since I am one of "them". I sure as hell don't remember Leigh getting up in arms about people dropping negative words towards male developers. A skin of stone they must be having, I am sure of it.

It happens no matter what age we’re in: this group, accustomed to being marginalised as ‘geeks’, wants to keep its club pristine. Fans of computers, science fiction, fantasy and such have never been seen as ‘the cool kids’. They had to develop their own society with its own laws in order to feel safe and empowered.

Paraphrasing: "I almost forgot! Those same chauvinist, sexist, culturally malignant gamers are also complete social outcasts, in need of a secret place to hide from all the cool kids -- those same cool kids they secretly yearn to be."

And all this attacking just to make some point about people labeling someone or other a hipster, which, by the way, is a stereotype often used against someone that fits the very bill of what Leigh describes the hardcore "traditional gamer as being: a closed-minded, ignorant social recluse desperately yearning for some attention by actively antagonizing everything that doesn't fit his or her cultural plateau. But hey, they're nice to women at least. Not like those filthy stereotypically male gamers.

To add insult to injury, what was the last major example of some indie developer being called a hipster? Oh, right, Phil Fish, that guy who just happened to publicly shit on Japanese gaming as a whole, in addition to making fun of someone because of his background, and embarrassing that same man in front of a live audience. What a class act.

But that was just a Japanese male, not an innocent, defenseless American female. That Japanese guy seemed quite hurt by what happened too, but his got hiw own fictional gaming world to crawl back into, so no biggie. And those Japanese games, they're sooooo traditional too. Leigh can't help with that, sorry. :(

Oh, and: those ignorant "traditional" hardcore gamers also forgave Phil Fish and actively played and lauded his game for what it was: brilliant. GAF even went as far as making a rule not to bring his persona into the official thread about that game. Because the discussion should be about the game, not the people making it. But thanks for bringing us a step backwards, Leigh, by making an issue of a complete non-issue.

[Always-honest]

The word hipster is getting old.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Pen and paper Dwarf Fortress is where it's at.

[blame space]

hm yes let's paraphrase and then argue

[Alucrid]

I usually reslly like Leigh and I actually think she probably has a good point somewhere in this article. It's just stuff like the DLC comment that completely detract from what she's saying. A certain vocal subsection of people who play games ARE resistant to change. Response to Wii/iOS/Kinect/DS etc are clear evidence of this (not saying these platforms are perfect, merely that they are frequently not treated with anything approaching open mindedness by a certain minority). It's weird because I tend to mainly associate this group with mainstream game journos. It is good that the industry is getting an influx of 'hip' creative types. Games need to expand from the current demographic majorly. Most people can find a tv show or film that they enjoy, right? Why not a game too? *shrugs* Not a good article by any stretch of the imagination though.

I would imagine that most people can find a game that they enjoy. Today. Right now.

I apologize, but what follows is quickly written rambling post. I've read more articles by Leigh than I can count and... yeah. jiji, I respect you, like you, etc., but read the article and tell me if it isn't just another one of those "Leigh pieces". I'll quote some parts of it for you and let you be the judge. Paraphrasing: "People who are in one way or another emotionally invested into gaming are by and large ignorant." I particularly dislike the word "traditional" being included there because by saying that she specifically calls out the sort of people most interested in preserving the gaming culture that was. This includes people like you and me. Rather than saying anything as to why there is this schism between the traditional and the new, why there is reluctance, she just flat-out labels them negatively without recourse. Paraphrasing: "Oh yeah, remember those same ignorant gamers I told you about before? They're also chauvinists! Because they verbally attacked a female!" Was it really that important that it was a female? I don't think so. Then again, I didn't follow this campaign againt BioWare very closely, but apparently I should have since I am one of "them". I sure as hell don't remember Leigh getting up in arms about people dropping negative words towards male developers. A skin of stone they must be having, I am sure of it. Paraphrasing: "I almost forgot! Those same chauvinist, sexist, culturally malignant gamers are also complete social outcasts, in need of a secret place to hide from all the cool kids -- those same cool kids they secretly yearn to be." And all this attacking just to make some point about people labeling someone or other a hipster, which, by the way, is a stereotype often used against someone that fits the very bill of what Leigh describes the hardcore "traditional gamer as being: a closed-minded, ignorant social recluse desperately yearning for some attention by actively antagonizing everything that doesn't fit his or her cultural plateau. But hey, they're nice to women at least. Not like those filthy stereotypically male gamers. To add insult to injury, what was the last major example of some indie developer being called a hipster? Oh, right, Phil Fish, that guy who just happened to publicly shit on Japanese gaming as a whole, in addition to making fun of someone because of his background, and embarrassing that same man in front of a live audience. What a class act. But that was just a Japanese male, not an innocent, defenseless American female. That Japanese guy seemed quite hurt by what happened too, but his got hiw own fictional gaming world to crawl back into, so no biggie. And those Japanese games, they're sooooo traditional too. Leigh can't help with that, sorry. :( Oh, and: those ignorant "traditional" hardcore gamers also forgave Phil Fish and actively played and lauded his game for what it was: brilliant. GAF even went as far as making a rule not to bring his persona into the official thread about that game. Because the discussion should be about the game, not the people making it. But thanks for bringing us a step backwards, Leigh, by making an issue of a complete non-issue.

She writes it so poorly that I don't even think it reaches non-issue -> issue status.

[Glass Rebel]

She writes it so poorly that I don't even think it reaches non-issue -> issue status.

It rather distracts from the real issues people have with the "evolution" of gaming and discredits every dissenting voice as being closed-minded.

[Kai Dracon]

"Casual Gamers" are threatening because of the game design trends they gobble up. What game design trends do 'hipsters' bring to the table?

I think there's a perception that the so-called hispter game designer encourages style over substance games that attempt either A: evoking an artificial, forced nostalgia or B: pseudo-intellectualism aka "the art game".

Examples might be Braid = short shallow platformer with a rewind mechanic and a coded story with pre-level text. Limbo = even shorter, simpler platformer with an edgy visual motif and maybe possibly kinda a story about a girl in some way.

Perhaps there's something to it, your mileage may vary.

Part of the aggravation, if it is indeed widespread (I don't know if it is) seems based on the gaming press and establishment holding up such games/game designers as visionaries or 'moving the medium forward'.

Personally I think there's at least a bit of truth to that. A lot of people in and around the game industry are eager to ride the train to Legitimacy Town, whatever they define 'legitimacy' as.

Unless I'm mistaken, a negative quality that people associate with hipsterism is a lack of sincerity and honesty. That is, the hipster seems to simultaneously deride the thing he venerates, so that his celebration of it is always ironic. Likewise, a lot of the 'edgy' or supposedly hipster game designers may go on about how games are shit, and act as if they can barely hold their nose to be associated with videya gaems. They may talk as if they're here to save gaming from itself. But then turn around and don't offer anything really sincere or substantial to do that. Just gimmick games, basically.

As I said, I see all this as the general perception surrounding the issue. There's probably some truth to it, though as with many things in gaming it has or soon may be overblown if people dogpile onto a new hate train.

[fushi]

hm yes let's paraphrase and then argue

Fair point, I guess. She just writes the same stuff over and over again. And always tucks in those thinly veiled hints at chauvinism, gamers as social outcasts, etc. I picked them out. Couldn't resist. Never could. Never will.

[M3d10n]

The continued attack on people with low social skills is kind of offensive. The hispters keep forgetting that without the nerds, they wouldn't be able to tweet endlessly about their feelings online.

[digita1alchemy]

I don't fear them, I just think (on the whole) that they make shit games.

[boutrosinit]

Really interesting piece by Leigh Alexander for EDGE. I see the term bandied about constantly, and I feel the same way -- that it's often anti-progressively used by inherently "uncool" people that feel threatened that "cool" people are becoming a part of their scene. http://www.edge-online.com/opinion/f...ster-developer

I find hipsters annoying. I hate their obsession with "cool" and their culture rooted in disingenuousness. Just a pointlessly dumb way to live. I hate their lifestyle, their beliefs, and their general attitudes toward hygiene and self-entitlement. I don't believe there's anti-sentiment toward hipsters in games, but toward all of them, everywhere, in every medium forever.

Henry Rollins treats them perfectly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIhyZaA8yqo

[John]

let's pretend the word hipster means something

[boutrosinit]

let's pretend the word hipster means something

It does.

"Twat".

[Dartastic]

Well, whatever. I look kinda hipsterish, and two of my friends are definitely hipsters. But you know what? I approached a dude at the bar last night who was super nerdy looking for realz. He was wearing a hylian symbol shirt, and his girlfriend was wearing an artsy mario shirt. So I started talking to him about E3, and how I was excited for the new Castlevania... blah blah blah. So when we get to talking, I find out that he has never played SOTN. Not only has he not played it, but he has NEVER HEARD OF THE GAME. EVER. Meanwhile, my two hipster friends outside are like "WHAT HE'S NEVER HEARD OF SOTN?" Yeah. Screw that noise. We "hipsters" out nerded some nerds.

P.S. Hipster is a stupid fucking term.

[Kade]

Word. When I see stuff like "You're games all SUCK, Japan!", it makes me not take whathisname seriously.

When I see people misquote someone and get upset about what they thought was said, it makes me not take whatstheirname seriously.

[Vice]

let's pretend the word hipster means something

It does have a meaning.

[jiji]

Thank you, folks, for articulating your arguments. I have no particular attachment to the article, aside from the paragraph on the term "hipster" (a term which I think means whatever the speaker wants it to mean), but this thread started out pretty embarrassingly.

[theBishop]

I think there's a perception that the so-called hispter game designer encourages style over substance games that attempt either A: evoking an artificial, forced nostalgia or B: pseudo-intellectualism aka "the art game". Examples might be Braid = short shallow platformer with a rewind mechanic and a coded story with pre-level text. Limbo = even shorter, simpler platformer with an edgy visual motif and maybe possibly kinda a story about a girl in some way. Perhaps there's something to it, your mileage may vary. Part of the aggravation, if it is indeed widespread (I don't know if it is) seems based on the gaming press and establishment holding up such games/game designers as visionaries or 'moving the medium forward'. Personally I think there's at least a bit of truth to that. A lot of people in and around the game industry are eager to ride the train to Legitimacy Town, whatever they define 'legitimacy' as. Unless I'm mistaken, a negative quality that people associate with hipsterism is a lack of sincerity and honesty. That is, the hipster seems to simultaneously deride the thing he venerates, so that his celebration of it is always ironic. Likewise, a lot of the 'edgy' or supposedly hipster game designers may go on about how games are shit, and act as if they can barely hold their nose to be associated with videya gaems. They may talk as if they're here to save gaming from itself. But then turn around and don't offer anything really sincere or substantial to do that. Just gimmick games, basically. As I said, I see all this as the general perception surrounding the issue. There's probably some truth to it, though as with many things in gaming it has or soon may be overblown if people dogpile onto a new hate train.

I don't consider Braid or Limbo remotely shallow.

[Alucrid]

It does. "Twat".

everyone is a twat though

Thank you, folks, for articulating your arguments. I have no particular attachment to the article, aside from the paragraph on the term "hipster" (a term which I think means whatever the speaker wants it to mean), but this thread started out pretty embarrassingly.

lol yeah, this wasn't even bad, don't go to ot

[theBishop]

let's pretend the word hipster means something

Punk - Politics = Hipster