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IdeaMan
My source is my ass!
(05-29-2012, 11:50 PM)
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The news is tagged rumor (second-hand knowledge + publicly available info + assumptions/speculation + dose of subjectivity) so take all this with a grain of salt while waiting for real data from Nintendo. It’s pretty long as I tried to be the most thorough possible to introduce the context to people who didn't followed the story.




- During the E3 2011 reveal period, it was implied that the system will only support one controller. The question was on every journalists lips, and finally Iwata and Miyamoto answered to this growing concern, by saying that it may not be a technical issue but more about the price or, quoting Shigeru:

"Our basic premise is that you can use one with a system," he noted, before musing, "If we got to an idea of having multiple (controllers) it might be just more convenient for people to use their Nintendo 3DS and have a way to connect that."

He continued, "That being said, we are doing research about if someone brings their controller to their friend's house and they want to play together on Wii U to whether or not something like that would be possible."

- In July, a Nintendo of Canada employee, stated again that it could be a possibility. Only a conversation though, and they talked more about bringing the controller to your friend’s house and upload to another Wii U some stored data. The core game experience was still focused on one player.

- A few months after (august 2011), during some meetings in Nintendo offices (in this case, NOE), a document for representatives and distributors depicted their goal to support two DRC (Display Remote Controller). It was just a paper nonetheless, not a demonstration.

- A tad later (november 2011), rumors from Develop indicated that Nintendo were trying their best to make this happen.

- Some other hearsays on this subject spread on the net lately, but nothing certain.





Therefore, all was still in a vague state, in flux, people knew it could be Nintendo intent to handle 2 padlets, that they may work on it but it wasn’t sure at all that it will come to fruition in the end.

And the doubts were natural, considering that until now, third-parties built their games with development kits supporting only one controller, as I hinted at through all the Wii U speculation threads, since February:

I'm trying to find a technical reason why Nintendo seems to struggle to allow the use of more than X padlet(s), and i'm sure it's not a problem of hardware calculations/rendering capabilities. Or perhaps it could even be a marketing decision, but it would be weird.

link

Let's hope the future dev kits will see a change for the better in this department (more to come about the DRC situation later, this is why i'm asking you these questions, to understand the info i've got that some have guessed here and there).

link

+ other earlier messages

Concretely, all the projects i've heard involved only one padlet. I thought it was a gamedesign choice, perhaps these titles focused on single player. But no, it wasn’t possible, from the version 1 of the dev kits to the V4 (that they used until recently), to manage more than one controller.





In this post talking about the arrival of the newest dev kits (tagged final/near final), I teased in the final line about “one additional good news that come with them”.

It appears it's the support for 2 controllers. Beware, there are factors to take into consideration before jumping for joy.

To detail further the information:

- From the firsts dev kits to the V4 (the ones before the latest supplied, referred to in this news), studios usually plugged the DRC in a port (as you’ve seen at E3 2011/CES for the units brought, or in the leaked Rayman Legend video), because of several reasons (some dev kit weren’t wireless, convenience for the development, etc.). There was only one port to which they could connect the padlet, and an additional one (maybe wirelessly linked ?) was anyway not supported.
- In these new dev kits, it seems that a second DRC port is here, implying that developers can physically put another controller on the box.
- However, it looks like studios can’t take advantage of it for the moment. This could be tied to SDK versions (Software Development Kits, the tools to make a soft on an equipment, simply explained), they may have to wait for a new one to activate this feature.


Now, some speculation blend with infos:

1 - As summarized in the history part, we know Nintendo were busy trying to support 2 DRC. We also know that they tweaked those latest dev kits for months, with a big delay in their supply to foreign studios. Therefore, something was modified inside that allowed this implementation, that wasn’t here before. I’m sure the hardware had the guts, in terms of calculation capabilities, to manage two DRC displays at once, with at worst a minimal use of the TV and a not too intricate content rendered on the controller screens (maybe sub-480p resolution upscaled). So what's different in those dev kits, additional encoders ? more bandwidth ? alterations in the streaming technology ? It doesn’t exclude the event that a change in the components has a positive effect on this matter, as we know those kits saw a slight increase of their performances.

2 - As it’s still not accessible to third-parties, this could point toward a few scenarios:

-->Nintendo could have “future-proofed” the dev kits mass produced and sent to developers, meaning they are still working on 2 DRC support, it will come later, but at least it will be physically doable to plug two DRC, until an update will activate it. It's possible then that Nintendo may not fully announce/introduce this feature come E3 2012, if it's still not available.
-->There’s still the unlikely scenario that they can’t do it in the end, but it’s really slim, I mean, why declaring it’s your intent since one year (well, at least strongly considering it), why tweaking those final dev kits for months and above all, why integrating a second DRC port, if they will not support it ? The fact that they put this port must prove that they are, at the very least, at a stage where they can say “ok, it’s nearly sure we’ll make it work with later SDK updates so let’s add one”.


3 - About the implementation of two DRC in games:

--> As Third-parties were developing their games with only one controller managed and more importantly, without being aware of Nintendo progression on this department, the chances of seeing their projects with multiplayer modes using 2 DRC at E3 are quasi nonexistent. They could have planned ahead this addition, and “emulated” the second padlet, but it's improbable as it appears they didn’t know if it was possible until a few weeks ago.
--> It’s not sure they will have time to take advantage of this support for their launch titles in the event it’s activated soon, as they will have just a few months to do so. If it’s the case, it should be for the most part limited applications, they couldn’t have built their multiplayer mode with two UPad from the start.
--> As Nintendo and first-parties were understandably a step forward in the dev kit they owned, and we know they tweaked the mass production ones (the newest) for months (at least 3), the likelihood of seeing two-DRC content from them at E3 is greater, even more for launch titles.


That’s it. Nothing really unexpected, purposely because as explained, I don’t want to ruin any real surprises Nintendo keep for E3 – besides, surprises that I’m not aware of - so I disclose vague infos & hints, or on the contrary very technical posts that only interests a particular audience, to nurture the speculation and lessen the wait. Nintendo already stated their plan to support 2 DRC one year ago, but it was just words, an intent shrouded in uncertainty until now if you believe this post, so it's still a cool [rumored] confirmation of something anticipated at E3 2012, with some precisions about dev kits, third-parties situation, etc. to spice up the anticipation in the middle of this near-total news blackout since one year and help build more hype before their conferences.





- For the techies around here, what do you think they changed in the dev kits, to allow the support of 2 controllers ? What could have been an hindrance before, that prevented the use of another padlet, until very recently ?

- In your opinion, how Nintendo will handle this, will they commercialize controllers separately, if yes, at what price ? Or maybe they'll adopt a "1 DRC per console, the sole way to acquire one" approach, and as suggested in interviews linked in Part 1, using 2 padlets simultaneously is only considered when a person bring its controller to another Wii U owner's house.

- For all, what kind of gamedesign, of implementations in your titles, you hope, want, expect to see with this feature ?

As an illustration, imagine a FPS, you play it with a friend, each has its own personal screen, like a LAN, hidden from the other. The TV displays a “spectator mode”, and you can grab some options on the floor, à la Mario Kart, triggering several interactions with the main screen, like revealing the position of your opponent on it for a few seconds, etc.

We presented many refreshing ideas on the speculation threads, but feel free to use this topic to think about interesting and fun application of this double controller support. Asymmetric gameplay with 1 DRC + X wii-motes setup sounded already original and promising, but now, a new world of possibilities opens, with symmetric configuration, 2 DRC + X wii-motes.

So, one week before the Nintendo conference, one wanted & awaited box seems to be checked, are you


:D

PS: yeah, it's the not-updated controller on the silly picture.




DRC ? Padlet ? Subscreen ?

= Wii U controller


Who is this guy ?

I’m a former game journalist who was able to gather some Wii U informations (not groundbreaking though, and subjective) and relay a few of them on the speculation threads.


How can I believe him ?

A developer vouched partially for the legitimacy of my info, some “insiders” confirmed that I know things, but that’s all. So big grain of salt & all, you’re more than encouraged to doubt the information, or even better, bring some new light on several parts, but do it in a civil manner.


Is this secret or what ?

A large bunch is publicly available on websites like TLS Singapore or middleware changelogs (dev kit numbers, SDK revisions). There are new tidbits here and there, only second-hand knowledge mixed with assumptions and speculations, but interesting for the date of implementation of this support, just before the E3.

I love you

Me too :D


I hate you

Been there, done that (on speculation thread). The moderators are warned of the creation of this subject since a few days, do not derail it in void personal arguments, please, its interest is to discuss this feature, why It wasn’t available before, why it seems it’s the case now at least hardware wise, and above all, what are you ideas of games using those 2 controllers.


Do you know first-party games ? Retro is making Ice Climbers X Kirby in a space opera setting ?

Don’t know a thing about first-party ! The surprises about Wii U are left intact for E3, the games, the system features (OS, functions, services, online mode, secret additions ?).

/kiss
Last edited by IdeaMan; 05-30-2012 at 12:51 PM.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
(05-29-2012, 11:53 PM)
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Wouldn't this suck even more power from the system?
StevieP
Member
(05-29-2012, 11:54 PM)
Multiple ni-fi channels for the second controller to operate would be my guess.
Tenck
Member
(05-29-2012, 11:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Plinko

Wouldn't this suck even more power from the system?

You never know, Nintendo might be beefing up their system a bit to handle two controllers.
Cartman86
Member
(05-29-2012, 11:55 PM)
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Highly skeptical it will support 2 controllers.
Zeer0id
Member
(05-29-2012, 11:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Plinko

Wouldn't this suck even more power from the system?

Wii U can run UE4 but only with one controller active, confirmed!
Instro
Member
(05-29-2012, 11:55 PM)
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Ah you finally got to make your thread. Sounds promising anyway, I think supporting 2 of the controllers at a time is a good deal for local multi. No one will be able to look at my plays in Madden anymore.

Originally Posted by Plinko

Wouldn't this suck even more power from the system?

I don't think this is particularly important as it would only be for multiplayer.
GodDuckman
Member
(05-29-2012, 11:56 PM)
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Mi cuerpo esta preparando.
lordfroakie
Member
(05-29-2012, 11:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zeer0id

Wii U can run UE4 but only with one controller active, confirmed!

sigh -_-
IdeaMan
My source is my ass!
(05-29-2012, 11:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Plinko

Wouldn't this suck even more power from the system?

This is the kind of speculation that are interesting.

What did they changed in the hardware to allow the support of 2 DRC, that wasn't here before ?

It's not a drastic boost of performances as the engines benchmarked saw just a slight increase in their framerate.

Maybe related to the streaming technology ? the encoders ?

Or it's for "light" content rendered on the DRC, akin to a split-screen mode, so less resources draw.
Last edited by IdeaMan; 05-29-2012 at 11:58 PM.
milesdm
Junior Member
(05-29-2012, 11:56 PM)
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Nintendo, no need to spoil us!
MYE
formerly Cheesus
(05-29-2012, 11:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Plinko

Wouldn't this suck even more power from the system?

"you will be sucked"
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
(05-29-2012, 11:58 PM)
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I'm getting a touch of the jeff_rigby's about this but I guess we'll find out soon.
Dorfdad
Banned
(05-29-2012, 11:58 PM)
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Dont think it would drain the power from the using that much seeing as your not playing full games from both in most cases. Simple inventory screens, radars, etc come to mind.

However it's interesting to note that this may tie into the rumors of a beefed up Wii-U that we have been hearing. It could be that the units shipped are just "Locked" to a specific config and will be "unlocked" or replaced in a few months with an improved unit..

These may just be final Launch units with improvements coming...
Vinci
Danish
(05-29-2012, 11:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Plinko

Wouldn't this suck even more power from the system?

Why would you even say that?

My god. Now we're going to be hearing this for years.

"Hey, look! Nintendo has seemingly corrected an issue people had with the Wii U!"
"Yeah, but... what about X,Y,Z? That would suck, right?"
"Ah yeah. NICE TRY NINTENDO!"
Gravijah
Member
(05-29-2012, 11:59 PM)
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holy shit guy you didn't need to have two Is in everything.
Conor 419
Banned
(05-29-2012, 11:59 PM)
I still don't think having two U pads is necessary, we're in the age of online gaming. So Nintendo should focus on other features.
-Pyromaniac-
(05-30-2012, 12:00 AM)
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Don't think I'll ever need 2 to work with it but can't hurt...I hope.
evolution
Member
(05-30-2012, 12:00 AM)
The Idea of a console supporting one standard controlleris is bizarre to me I completely forgot this was the case for WiiU. Hopefully they have figured it out by now though. How would split-screen coop games work with one person using the pad an the other using a

Edit: im guessing the classic controller still works though.
Last edited by evolution; 05-30-2012 at 12:02 AM.
bgassassin
Member
(05-30-2012, 12:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by Plinko

Wouldn't this suck even more power from the system?

Depends on what they are doing on the screens.
Gaborn
Gaborn News:
Penetrating Your World™
(05-30-2012, 12:00 AM)
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2 pads makes the most sense to me and I really kind of expect it to happen. I think more than that and you're talking about too much drain on resources, but 2? Seems more than adequate for all sorts of possibilities. More than that and play online.
opticalmace
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(05-30-2012, 12:01 AM)
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Seems more like wishful thinking to me.

Could be true, but I don't find your argument compelling on its own.
Dreams-Visions
I'm mad as hell but this sandwich is delicious
(05-30-2012, 12:01 AM)
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I think two U pads are necessary. Just having support for one was always ridiculous and everyone knew it.

them getting their hardware right doesn't take away from their online/multi-player design. 2 completely different teams (and types) of engineers.
GDGF
Soothsayer
(05-30-2012, 12:01 AM)
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This should make EA happy.
snesfreak
Banned
(05-30-2012, 12:01 AM)
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Two would be nice for Madden, at least for local play.
Vinci
Danish
(05-30-2012, 12:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by evolution

The Idea of a console supporting one standard controlleris is bizarre to me I completely forgot this was the case for WiiU. Hopefully they have figured it out by now though. How would split-screen coop games work with one person using the pad an the other using a wiimote?

Online or asymmetrically, though it's possible they would be able to play together at any rate. Though depending on the game, the Wiimote / Nunchuck combination might have an advantage.
SolidSnakex
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(05-30-2012, 12:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by Conor 419

I still don't think having two U pads is necessary, we're in the age of online gaming. So Nintendo should focus on other features.

Nintendo has always been a big supporter of splitscreen game, and that's something that might be able to payoff for them with the Wii U. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't take online seriously, but splitscreen shouldn't be the cost of that.

I think the big question is how much will this thing cost? A lot of people speculate that it's gonna play a big role in the Wii U's cost, so it definitely isn't going to be cheap. I'm thinking $100 at a minimum.
Alrix
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(05-30-2012, 12:03 AM)
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So what about for games like Smash Bros where I've got 4 people playing together? Obviously I don't need 4 tablets, and would even prefer no tablets, but does that mean I'm stuck using Wii-motes (ugh) for the remaining 2-3 players who wouldn't be using a tablet?

Nintendo just needs to come out with Wii-U compatible Wavebirds, step 2 ??, step 3 profit.
PhoenixDawn
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(05-30-2012, 12:03 AM)
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I don't think it's that big of a deal to have two Wii U pads, but I think that if there is even a remote possibility of it becoming a reality, they should put the two controller ports on the final, shipped, retail version of the console. That way, even if they still couldn't figure out the two padlet software by launch, there would still be some hope for it being made available in a software update later on down the line without screwing over launch purchasers with consoles that only have one controller port.
radioheadrule83
Banned
(05-30-2012, 12:04 AM)
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I'm expecting 2 controllers and multiple 3DS compatibility, but not at launch.

I'm actually interested in whether or not Nintendo will include a remote+ with the console. The padlet itself has a sensor bar built in so its clear they intend to support that functionality, but I'd be more comfortable if there was a remote in every box. I know some of you will feel you've got enough remotes by now or whatever, but I think that would be best for varied controller support.

I actually want there to be games that don't use the padlet in any significant way whatsoever, alongside games that use it a lot. Multiplayer games that aren't asynchronous in nature, or don't require a hidden view for each player, could quite easily be all remote affairs...
Conor 419
Banned
(05-30-2012, 12:04 AM)

Originally Posted by SolidSnakex

Nintendo has always been a big supporter of splitscreen game, and that's something that might be able to payoff for them with the Wii U. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't take online seriously, but splitscreen shouldn't be the cost of that.

I think the big question is how much will this thing cost? A lot of people speculate that it's gonna play a big role in the Wii U's cost, so it definitely isn't going to be cheap. I'm thinking $100 at a minimum.

How on earth is it a cost?

Do people honestly think split screen is going away? What!!!!???? The system's still going to support split screen, it's just that only one person will use the U-Pad and the other three will use either Wii motes, classic controllers or whatever.
SolidSnakex
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(05-30-2012, 12:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by Conor 419

How on earth is it a cost?

Do people honestly think split screen is going away? What!!!!???? The system's still going to support split screen, it's just that only one person will use the U-Pad and the other three will use either Wii motes, classic controllers or whatever.

More than one person are going to want to be able to use the UPad when playing. That's why people have made a big deal out of this when it was originally announced to only support one UPad. If they can implement it, then there's no reason that they shouldn't.
Ecliptor
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(05-30-2012, 12:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by GodDuckman

Mi cuerpo esta preparando.

preparing what?
TDLink
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(05-30-2012, 12:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alrix

So what about for games like Smash Bros where I've got 4 people playing together? Obviously I don't need 4 tablets, and would even prefer no tablets, but does that mean I'm stuck using Wii-motes (ugh) for the remaining 2-3 players who wouldn't be using a tablet?

Nintendo just needs to come out with Wii-U compatible Wavebirds, step 2 ??, step 3 profit.

Classic Controllers will still work with the Wiimotes...plus 3DS compatibility?
IdeaMan
My source is my ass!
(05-30-2012, 12:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by Conor 419

I still don't think having two U pads is necessary, we're in the age of online gaming. So Nintendo should focus on other features.

But imagine a cross-mode multiplayer, 2 friends with their own padlet, side by side, competing against another team through Nintendo Network, with the TV showing a spectator more, a ranking board, some nicely chosen player reactions taken from the DRC front camera ? It would be glorious !
Typographenia
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(05-30-2012, 12:09 AM)
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I would certainly think it more advantageous to have it support more than one controller on it, but I'm not exactly intimately acquainted with the software or general thought process behind the titles that are coming out. Either way, it will be interesting to see if this is true, as I would like to see what people come up with when it comes to having the two controllers interact with one another. Assuming that's possible.
Conor 419
Banned
(05-30-2012, 12:10 AM)

Originally Posted by SolidSnakex

More than one person are going to want to be able to use the UPad when playing. That's why people have made a big deal out of this when it was originally announced to only support one UPad. If they can implement it, then there's no reason that they shouldn't.

No they're not, the people who just want to play Mario Party, Mario Kart, Smash Brothers and whatever else aren't going to give a shit about whether they all have U-Pads, they're just going to want to play the game.

I admit it's a nice feature to have, but there's an absolute plethora of features Nintendo should be focusing on rather than this one.
ksamedi
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(05-30-2012, 12:10 AM)
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As a socces fan, this is great news for me. This will definitely give the Wii U the advantage for FIFA and PES over the other consoles. Secretly changing tactics would be great. And I would also like to be able to tap on a particular part of the field to let my players make a run there. One controller support would give an unfair advantage to the player who uses the Umote. 2 controllers, however, and the playing field is even. Socces games will be great on the Wii U if true.

Wii U big hit in Europe confirmed.
snesfreak
Banned
(05-30-2012, 12:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by Conor 419

No they're not, the people who just want to play Mario Party, Mario Kart, Smash Brothers and whatever else aren't going to give a shit about whether they all have U-Pads, they're just going to want to play the game.

I admit it's a nice feature to have, but there's an absolute plethora of features Nintendo should be focusing on rather than this one.

Who says they're not?
IdeaMan
My source is my ass!
(05-30-2012, 12:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by snesfreak

Two would be nice for Madden, at least for local play.

for sports games, it will be amazing, really.
cacildo
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(05-30-2012, 12:11 AM)
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Redford
aka Cabbie
(05-30-2012, 12:11 AM)
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Good stuff, good stuff. Not really a big deal if they can't though, at least for me. I must have no friends..
Conor 419
Banned
(05-30-2012, 12:11 AM)

Originally Posted by snesfreak

Who says they're not?

If I'm wrong in a few years down the line, feel free to call me out on it. But on my own intuition I feel that people simply aren't going to care.
Vinci
Danish
(05-30-2012, 12:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Conor 419

If I'm wrong in a few years down the line, feel free to call me out on it. But on my own intuition I feel that people simply aren't going to care.

I don't think there's any problem in adding it. It's there if developers want it. That said, I agree that most multiplayer experiences - sans Nintendo titles - will be played online, so it's a moot point for many of the people who were bitching about it originally.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
(05-30-2012, 12:14 AM)
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So.... what is the actual hard news?

That newer kits have a second port but devs can't make use of it and don't have word that they ever will? Was the rest just speculation?


----

They should at least allow a second payer to use the wuc without the video stream... If only to have the same form factor... Then, maybe, the stream can switch back and forth depending on who needs to use the screen.
Last edited by Gahiggidy; 05-30-2012 at 12:16 AM.
Conor 419
Banned
(05-30-2012, 12:14 AM)

Originally Posted by Vinci

I don't think there's any problem in adding it. It's there if developers want it. That said, I agree that most multiplayer experiences - sans Nintendo titles - will be played online, so it's a moot point for many of the people who were bitching about it originally.

I'm just worried that adding it will cost the system in other areas.
Thrillhouse
Member
(05-30-2012, 12:15 AM)
I'm still hoping this isn't true. Would prefer to not having to buy expensive new controllers. However I doubt that Nintendo would pass on an opportunity to make money from controller-sales.
IdeaMan
My source is my ass!
(05-30-2012, 12:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by PhoenixDawn

I don't think it's that big of a deal to have two Wii U pads, but I think that if there is even a remote possibility of it becoming a reality, they should put the two controller ports on the final, shipped, retail version of the console. That way, even if they still couldn't figure out the two padlet software by launch, there would still be some hope for it being made available in a software update later on down the line without screwing over launch purchasers with consoles that only have one controller port.

Wii U retail units won't have the DRC ports dev kits have. If they are wired (for charge) to the console, it will be through USB.

So if this support isn't available at launch but may be unlocked after, it will be through wireless connection. Or maybe USB ? pure speculation here
Vinci
Danish
(05-30-2012, 12:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Conor 419

I'm just worried that adding it will cost the system in other areas.

Such as?


Originally Posted by Thrillhouse

I'm still hoping this isn't true. Would prefer to not having to buy expensive new controllers. However I doubt that Nintendo would pass on an opportunity to make money from controller-sales.

They're adding this because people bitched emphatically about it after last E3.
iceatcs
Junior Member
(05-30-2012, 12:17 AM)
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Quite surprise how important to have 2. I mean why not more than 2. If the screen rendering by hardware inside the controller, then let it have more than 2.

If it came power by the main system. Don't bother get more than one, otherwise the game may force to cut/reduce/limit for saving resource.

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