[Eiji]

2D looks infinitely better at any resolution. Try running a 3D game on 256x224p on a TV and you'll sob quietly on your pillow.

I know, I'm just reminiscing about the old days.

Final Fantasy Tactics for example runs at 256x240p on the PSX, and it has nasty dithering too.

[TUROK]

ITT: People conflating the image quality of 480p with their TV's shitty scaler. Anyway, 240, 480, 720, 1080, and beyond, I love it all. I've been a PC gamer for over twenty-five years. I was playing in "high-def" years before the general public even heard the term. And wouldn't you know? I just don't care. As with all games from all eras, I accept their shortcomings as byproducts of the time they were created. I don't even think about them; complaints such as these are automatically filtered from my consciousness before I even start playing. I'm thankful for that ability, as my life is probably more enjoyable because of it.

I haven't been PC gaming anywhere near as long as you, but I agree. 480i content still looks great on a CRT TV. Hell, my Gamecube looks fantastic while on an S-Video connection.

[evilromero]

I honestly don't really care if it's 480p or 720p as long as it's fun. That's why playing the Wii next to my PS3 hasn't been an issue. I don't get why it's such a big deal to have that little increase in resolution. Doesn't change the game really.

[zoku88]

My native res is 1920x1200. Non-native resolutions really bother me.

[charlequin]

I mean really? People are ok with SD in the year 2012?

Some people can appreciate better image quality without tossing off hyperbolic silliness when historical or technological limitations prevent some games from looking as good as others.

In general, I think the people who investigate quality deinterlacers or who keep legacy CRT displays around to play older console games are much more deserving of praise and respect than people who go "lol y u play sd gaems it's TEH FUTURE!!!"

The reason most PC games have no issues running at high framerates is simply because many of those games are also targeted at current generation consoles. If developers REALLY pushed PC hardware you wouldn't be seeing perfect framerates and great AA.

And thank goodness they don't. One of the worst things about new consoles, potentially, is the potential temporary end of the current awesome situation where even mid-range PCs can run just about every game with great IQ and framerate.

[SoulUnison]

My only real problem with 470p/i is that text looks fuzzy.

[ShipTheCheese]

So, which games are at 1080p? Maybe if someone could name me an example I could give a better answer to how I feel about 720p. Because right now I'm simply fine with it. I honestly don't see the difference.

[Laughing Banana]

As long as the game themselves are fun, I'd play a 480p/720p/whatever resolution all day.

I'd rather play a fun a 480p game than a dull full hd game any time of the day.

Of course, the best one is a fun hd game though, heh.

[UFRA]

They're both shit. 1080p should be the standard in 2012.

I sure hope so.

I still remember back in the day when I bought my 1080p HDTV specifically for PS3 gaming since Sony made it seem like 1080p was going to be the standard.

[injurai]

480p is nice for youtube and bandwidth related videos. Otherwise anything below 720p should die.

[Smokey]

480p is straight garbo. literally makes playing on a lcd or plasma an eyesore. good riddance bring on 1080p+

[Eusis]

And thank goodness they don't. One of the worst things about new consoles, potentially, is the potential temporary end of the current awesome situation where even mid-range PCs can run just about every game with great IQ and framerate.

I do worry at times that this is actually one of the worst times to upgrade a computer, at least from Core 2 Duo/8800GT type stuff. Maybe if it's a small leap it won't matter, it'd simply be running games at 30 FPS more frequently or something, but it'd kinda suck if the jump was big enough that higher end hardware from last year or this year doesn't cut it at the end of 2013.

Though, it also takes quite awhile for games to seriously take advantage of that new hardware anyway.

[Grayman]

I hardly play consoles games now so I don't really see any lower resolution games. 480 isn't playable on modern screens but is fine on CRTs. Really I spent years gaming at 480i and 1024x768 interchangeably but both fit the screen used properly. I am not sure why 720 and 1080i ever existed as stopgap standards.

[Jaxter09]

After playing PC-only for a while, it was quite a shock going back to Halo 3 split-screen. Didn't stop me from enjoying the hell out of it though.

[Eusis]

I'm kind of curious how often people are talking about 480p stretched out. Then again on a 26 inch 720p it's probably going to look nicer than on a 40+ in 1080p.

Though, stuff like Xenoblade is still lacking (though just being letter boxed in 4:3 doesn't help), and I don't really care to play HD console games in 480p since they're meant to be played at a higher resolution, they always look too blurry and for some reason washed out.

[I Stalk Alone]

For PC I am happy with 23 inch1050p@100hz or 23 inch 1200p@90hz for games until I can buy a 27 inch 1600p@120hz ips+ for $400 3 years from now.

Here is one thing I am worried about down the line say about 12 years from now. I don't think 4k TV’s will take off until maybe around 12 years from now considering the content and the amount of data it needs to push to match the current image quality of the content we have now on sub 2k resolutions. Right now we are unable to pus 120fps on a sub 2k resolution at 120 Hz without resorting to using two GTX680 GPU's at a cost of a round $1000 just for the GPU to play a current gen game like Metro 2033.

If I was to get a 4K monitor today and wanted to run the same game on the highest settings at the same frame rate I would need 8 GTX680 GPU's at the cost of around $4000. That’s a current gen 2011 game needing 8 GPU's to run the same game on the same settings on a 4K resolution.
Looking at this current scenario, it is understandable that 4K is not ready for AAA mainstream games and not for a very long time.

Even if we go by Moore’s law as a best case scenario and half the price of entry every 18 months and not even worrying about the price of a 30 inch 4K gaming monitor at 120hz (let alone 240hz for 120hz 3d) we can look at how long it will take and what it would take to run current gen 2011 games at 4K resolutions at 120fps at 120hz (60fps at 60hz for a 4k screen is just not smooth enough let alone 30fps at 60hz) at an affordable level for a gamer willing to fork out about $250 for a GPU or about $399 for a console.

DEC 2013 $2000
JUNE 2015 $1000
DEC 2016 $500
JUNE 2018 $250
DEC $2019 $125

We are basically looking at 2018 until we can run 2011 looking games at 4K resolutions at the cost of $250 for a GPU. It will be only then that 4K resolutions will be viable in gaming as it will be the first time 4K will be available affordable for most consumers and not widely affordable until it hits the $125 sweet spot for midrange consumers in 2019 around the time the next generation after WiiU is available. If we keep up with resolution increases we will not see too much increase in detail save for some new fancy lighting techniques and other graphical techniques that may help in efficiency to get a few more frames per seconds on screen. We won’t actually see a full generational graphical leap from a 4K standpoint until another generation or around 2024. So if people were hoping to be gaming with next gen visuals UE4 quality 120fps, well that will not happen in 4K at an affordable price for around 12 years at least.

So what is the best thing for display technology so as to no feel like we are getting a downgrade in polygons and effects per pixel? 720p@30 is the current defacto in consoles. For the next generation of consoles coming we will see different tiers in defacto resolutions to still get a noticeable visual upgrade over current gen without resolution taking too much of a hit on the gpu.

2012-2019
720p60 (at least 4x GPU power current HD consoles to see noticeable graphical increase)
1080p30 (at least 4x GPU power current HD consoles to see noticeable graphical increase)
1080p60 (at least 8x GPU power current HD consoles to see noticeable graphical increase)

By around June 2018 We will start to see some 4K broadcasts and maybe some 4K content in the form of 100-200GB blu-rays and 4K 120hz 50inch TV's at the cost of maybe $2500 but I do not believe any of the console manufacturers will target 4K as any gaming resolution as standard. By Dec 2019 when the next round of consoles are due 1080p@60 will be the new defacto standard for consoles while pc will be well into the 120 Hz era of gaming at 1080p@120 1440p@120. Next generation games will still have a graphical leap during this time but it wont be as big as the one in 2013 but still very noticeable.

2018-2025
1440@60
1600p@60

We are at the threshold by this time of gpu processing not advancing enough to match the increases in resolution. The only answer to this is to introduce a transitional resolution of 1440p and 1600p for TV's for another 7-8 years in accordance with other advancements in resolution or image quality increases such as progressive scan. having 1600p as the new HD resolution standard in 2018 if in 2024 we hold off releasing 4K as a the new standard for gaming resolutions then we should be able to have graphical increases for two more console generations.

In 2024 However, if there is not transitional native gaming resolution and 4K TV’s and broadcasts will be very mainstream with $500 4K TV’s the order of the day and lots of 200GB 4K content on maybe digital or some form of portable media (probably not optical in nature but solid state) There might be a big problem. If the three console manufacturers are still around during this time then we will see the jump to 4K being a very costly and potentially industry collapsing move due to the high cost of entry to match the fidelity of previous resolutions and to somehow exceed it.

Display technology should be updating in ticks and tocks

480i-576i 50-60 Hz VHS era pre 1998
480p-576p 50-60-100Hz DVD era 1998-2005
720p-1080p Blu-Ray Era 60-hz (no true 120 Hz yet but is coming this year) 2005-2013?

What should be the next advancement? More Hz or more resolution or a combination of both?
Here are some possible solutions

720p@120hz 1080p@120hz 2013 this is already out in pc but not yet (true 120) on televisions.
1440@60-1600p@60 2013 this is already out on pc but maybe not coming on TV televisions.
1440@120-1600p@120 I don't think this is possible in 2013 as bandwidth is too high.

The best thing for the games industry is for TV manufacturers and display manufacturers to extend the TV generation to the current resolution and increase the frequency to 120hz to get a smoother picture movement which will be great for games as response time will be decreased and controls will be more inline as input lag will be decreased and ghosting will also be decreased on displays. This way we can still see increases in graphics affects while still selling TV’s with superior technology.

In 2018 increase the resolution for consoles to 1440p@120hz-1600p@120hz which will bring us to a 2005 scenario but with more people owning the technology as it was released a few years prior and in 2024 increase display technology to 240hz at the same resolution and reintroduce glasses free 3D as a viable technology even for games. Maybe 4K is also viable at this time but for games it will be a tough sell due to the increase in price and power draw. It is hard enough doubling the data needed for the next generation with a doubling of frequency or frames but going from 2k to 4k is an increase of 4x the power off the bat.

So am I happy with 720p for consoles? Well I will tell you that I still have a HDCRT and I am hoping that most games next gen will be at 720p60fps as standard. for me to be happy graphically I will need at most an 8x increase in GPU power but 4x will be enough to see a big difference in my view for 720p60 gaming for those with 1080p screens 1080p30 native should be standard. for PC I will stick with 1050p and 1200p until I can max them both to match their current refresh rates 90-100hz with a graphics card less than $400 for UE4, cryengine 3.4 games (yes I still use a widescreen crt monitor) or until a 1600p 27 inch monitor is released that can run at 120hz. Heck I might even bite at 1920x1080 at 23 inch for 120hz if it was an ips screen with no input lag same with a flatscreen 50inch plus TV that can run in true 120hz mode for some comfy couch pc gaming. So year right now at this moment 720p for consoles I am happy with and ~1080p for pc is fine as long as I don't go over 24 inches. I can go another few years at this resolution as long as the effects increase in accordance with price.


Wow this post took a lot longer than I had imagined it would. I know I may be way off base to some but for me controls/input lag>frames/frequency>effects>resolution are the most important when trying to run a game, some people have it a little bit differently.

[Ledsen]

720p was fine until I saw the light got a PC, now it's 1080p or bust. The exception is gaming on an SDTV of course, 576i is beautiful.

[SkyMasterson]

720p is the sweet spot for sure.

1080p is great and all but it's hard to tell the difference really.

480p is a hit or miss with me. I love my Wii and it and most of the games look pretty good on my 42 inch plasma but man some of those games just scream HD. Like Xenoblade I would love in HD. It looks kinda eh-ish.

Whereas of course I would love SMG or Kirbys Epic Yarn or MP3 in HD but they look fine in 480p for the most part.

I'm just thankful the WiiU is coming out and we don't have to discuss Nintendo games no being in HD anymore.

[kittens]

I just want games to be HD. 720 is good enough for me.

[Lingitiz]

The jump from 720p to 1080p on PC was huge for me. Can't see myself ever going back.

[Rhazer Fusion]

I can easily tolerate 480p, but 720p is definitely preferred.

[qq more]

I don't really get how people can hate 720p but okay w/e.


(1080p is nicer though from what I've seen but all I have are 720p screens lol)

480p is tolerable, but I kind of wish the Wii U would up-res Wii games. Oh well, there's always Dolphin I suppose!

[Eusis]

I don't really get how people can hate 720p but okay.

We can get spoilt by PC gaming pretty easily. Maybe it was easier when the gulf was larger like in every prior generation.

Although for me frame rate was always the bigger deal, as nice as a higher resolution was I could adjust, so long as it was either native resolution or at least the pixels weren't blatantly stretched, and even then!

[Kokonoe]

For the longest time? We've had 720p as a standard longer than 480i/480p. Most PlayStation generation games were far below that.

Actually I didn't realize till today that games before this gen were running at resolutions lower than 480.

[Nappuccino]

I'm fine with 720p

I think, for now, it is the best middle ground between quality and power needed to display the images.

1080p and higher are preferred, but we can do a lot worse than 720p (and have been for a lot of this generation)

[Eusis]

Actually I didn't realize till today that games before this gen were running at resolutions lower than 480.

Well, I knew resolutions weren't great before this generation, I mainly just knew that PC pretty much always curbstomped consoles in that regard from the time I played with Voodoo 2. The specifics I may've learned but quickly forgot, only with 240p via my HDTV (and others NOT supporting it) did it really sink in the resolution console games used to run at.

[SomeDude]

"meh"

[michaelius]

So, which games are at 1080p? Maybe if someone could name me an example I could give a better answer to how I feel about 720p. Because right now I'm simply fine with it. I honestly don't see the difference.

Wipeout HD and Superstardust HD.

But it's obvious you don't have a pc if you tell you can't see a difference.

[Oblivion]

I don't have a problem with 480p just speaking in general terms, but I've learned there is a MASSIVE difference going from 480p to 720p. It's not just an additional 240 lines of resolution as one may be led to believe.

[chickdigger802]

720p. *scoots chair away from monitor a bit*

480p *scoots chair away from monitor a lot more*

[mrklaw]

I'm fine with 720p. Xbox 360 has a nice crispy output and scales up nicely to 1080p if you have a 1080p TV.

I look forward to the next gen consoles and playing either in proper 1080p or super lush 720p with lots of effects and AA. I'm fine with either.