[elcapitan]

I really hope everybody trumpeting the "diminishing returns" line will prove completely wrong come next-gen. The leap has to be so big, even the "mass market" will notice the difference.

Lol, everyone is hoping that. Who would like to have diminishing returns?

Crazy people.

[UrbanRats]

I really hope everybody trumpeting the "diminishing returns" line will prove completely wrong come next-gen. The leap has to be so big, even the "mass market" will notice the difference.

Lol, everyone is hoping that.
Who would like to have diminishing returns?

[Shambles]

If you make two comparison shots low enough resolution they'll eventually look like they have the same IQ.

[Xun]

That is like a very bad comparison, at least choose something that looks more similar. One is dark and lots of fire, the other is white and lots of snow, like the total opposite lol. But let me get it out of the way first: Yes, it looks better and it should, one is running on a GTX680 the other on a cut down GTX7800. Next-gen games looks better, because of more polygons/tesselation, but the biggest differentiator is the DOF and lots of particle effects.

That coupled with motion blur.

[Forsaken82]

Someone show him Star Wars 1313.

Show him a demo of a game that was showcased for PC only?

[TheBanditKing]

This is crazy, shurly he was joking right?

Hell what they showed for Wii U was not even on par with a game like The Last of Us.

[Flying_Phoenix]

I don't know what to say then. I'm sorry, but UC2 just doesn't seem to hold a candle to it imo. Difference is easily distinguishable to me. One looks "gamey", the other looks like a CGI video.

Between this and GTA mod, I'm starting to believe Iwata.

it was running better.

Of course it does. GTA IV has better graphics so it takes much more powerful hardware to run it. Few PCs can handle it.

[LCGeek]

Difference is easily distinguishable to me. One looks "gamey", the other looks like a CGI video.

Shitty old ones. Current cgi is always quite a few noticeable steps over what I see in real time gaming.

Ok course it does. GTA IV has better graphics so it takes much more powerful hardware to run it. Few PCs can handle it.

So those in to the scene are more than enough of an example. All it demonstrates is it takes a lot of high end hardware to do this stuff which makes those wanting this true next gen shit even more ridiculous.

Though to be fair to pc gamers GTA games are optimized like crap for pcs and have been since GTA3.

[jmdajr]

Laugh all you want at the WiiU, i'm right there with you. But the DS's screens were put to good use dammit!

Yeah I at the time I think it was the first touch screen device I ever had. Now everything has a damn touch screen.

[Mpl90]

GamePad is a Wiimote. A classic controller. A tablet. An asymmetric screen. A camera. An NFC device. I certainly think we can hope for the best.

Yes, it's basically the greatest controller ever, since it's so multifunctional, for basically every kind of game, even the corest one ( and for some of them, the screen can be an eyeopener ). I hope to see more ZombiU / Rayman Legends in the future, talking about how the thing is used.

[xtrasauce]

Iwata must be sooooo nervous about the Wii U, and with good reason.

[PdotMichael]

Yeah I at the time I think it was the first touch screen device I ever had. Now everything has a damn touch screen.

with multitouch, thanks apple

[nordique]

He is spinning. He's already defending the Wii U's inevitable technological disadvantage when the next generation of consoles arrive. And then saying that even if the next-gen consoles were that powerful developers would struggle greatly, implying that they would be completely incapable of taking advantage of the hardware anyhow. What is this if it's not spin. People can tell the difference when something vastly better looking comes along, mass consumer or hardcore gamer. And those games will come.

Truthfully, the issue is not about the Wii U's graphical short comings. I am not going to argue this point as it is fruitless and meaningless; he has already (several times before in fact) acknowledged the Wii U will not be on par with the next offerings for the next MS/Sony systems.

Again, I personally agree with what you and others say regarding the next consoles and their graphical superiority; there will be simply jaw dropping stand out titles even at their debut's nevermind later on in their respective cycles.

But, the issue is not "the next systems will be indiscernible" from current systems, the issue is these next systems may not display a huge graphical difference to the consumer by and large and thus graphics alone will not dictate these system being sold.

Considering these are game companies whose businesses thrive off consoles sales (which also results in increased software sales; more systems out there to sell games on) it is important to consider.

MS and Sony understand that if their systems do not show a notable leap, they will not sell to the core gamer who expects it, and the core gamer is the gamer who will be the support during the thickest of times.

That said, when we look at the mass market, some of whom look at updated graphics as important, others who looks more to services or the system as it stand "as is", Iwata is by all means correct in his postulation...because that is a question to consider. I too am not sold that it will be the strongest selling point to the people who will be buying the systems in the tens of millions.

The first 10 million or so consumers are the core games who frequent sites such as GAF. After that, you need more than graphics to sway consumers. For some people, it was simply fun games even if they were essentially "evolved" versions of Pong (Wii Sports)

Others a blu ray drive to complement their home theatres (PS3's)

But most of all it is the games. 360 and PS3 have a large number of games people want to play. So they purchase those systems. No doubt the next PS and Xbox will follow suit.

But keep in mind I am simply addressing the AVERAGE consumer and their ability to look at a game and question whether or not it is a huge leap; thus not deciding to purchase a system on graphics alone...which is what I take to be Iwata's point

[BGBW]

Difference is easily distinguishable to me. One looks "gamey", the other looks like a CGI video.

Probably because the later looks to have a automatic camera. This of course means they know exactly what they need to render thus they can push the number of polygons on screen because they don't have to waste resources rendering things offscreen.

[dragonfart28]

I really hope everybody trumpeting the "diminishing returns" line will prove completely wrong come next-gen. The leap has to be so big, even the "mass market" will notice the difference.

That's what Iwata is saying is necessary to avoid the diminishing returns fate.

[we.are.the.armada]

Wow, I had no idea this Iwata guy could be so stupid. There is a big difference and it is apparent. UE4 toolset implies that dev time will not be as taxing as assumed in the two next generation consoles.

[Flying_Phoenix]

I agree entirely with that; however it says nothing regarding Iwata's point. Gamers en masse are not swayed by graphics; that is to say for the mass market consumer interested in a gaming product graphics are not the #1 defining factor to invest in a console nor a game. Star Wars 1313 will be the start of how well games will look "next gen" certainly, but Iwata is right to have doubt over the leaps the next MS and Sony consoles will bring to the extent the average consumer will notice. For instance, to you or myself Star Wars 1313 is certainly a jump over Mass Effect 3. But to the average consumer (the mass market, the people that will be picking the consoles up in the tens of millions) do you think they will immediately notice a difference between these two games? That is the point; not whether the specific technology is superior in one game or the other. Its that HD and modern era graphics cards brings a certain level of parity across games that developers invest a lot of time in. Iwata's comments are garnering a lot of criticism on this thread, but the truth is he is being much more realistic about mass market perception

I agree. I mean I still can't tell the difference between ODST and Halo 4.

[Evlar]

I don't think most people posting on these boards would want diminishing returns. This is more a discussion about what's likely to be practical and profitable.

[walking fiend]

He is spinning. He's already defending the Wii U's inevitable technological disadvantage when the next generation of consoles arrive. And then saying that even if the next-gen consoles were that powerful developers would struggle greatly, implying that they would be completely incapable of taking advantage of the hardware anyhow. What is this if it's not spin. People can tell the difference when something vastly better looking comes along, mass consumer or hardcore gamer. And those games will come.

Definitely, after companies bleeding money for more than half of the generation; mid-tier games almost cease existing; new IPs becoming an Indie exclusive; genre with niche market dying, etc.

[MormaPope]

I agree. I mean I still can't tell the difference between ODST and Halo 4.

Those screenshots are horrendous though, is this a joke post?

Edit: Nevermind, misinterpreted the post I believe.

[Perkel]

All it demonstrates is it takes a lot of high end hardware to do this stuff which makes those wanting this true next gen shit even more ridiculous. Though to be fair to pc gamers GTA games are optimized like crap for pcs and have been since GTA3.

GTA4 ienchancer like mods aren't native to game. They force diffrent effects throught dx config.

If it was native created by Rockstar medium PCs would run this good.

[shinobi602]

Probably because the later looks to have a automatic camera. This of course means they know exactly what they need to render thus they can push the number of polygons on screen because they don't have to waste resources rendering things offscreen.

There's plenty of instances like that in the UC games and still don't come close to it.

[dragonfart28]

I don't think most people posting on these boards would want diminishing returns. This is more a discussion about what's likely to be practical and profitable.

Most people want CRAZY GRAPHICS for $299.99.

Iwata is simply highlighting stark reality:

That's not going to happen.

[CoffeeJanitor]

Actually they aren't at all, but feel free to interpret them how you want. :)

Not you, specifically. You are well informed. I'm talking about the crazy optimists that have been in that thread since the start.

[airmangataosenai]

Remember when he told us that this generation we'd hit a wall of diminishing returns when compared to the previous generation? The guy's a broken record on this subject.

Anyone who expressed excitement over the Zelda tech demo knows in their hearts that he was full of shit on that one.

[shinobi602]

Show him a demo of a game that was showcased for PC only?

It's not PC exclusive.

[bdizzle]

And he is right. Do the mainstream gamers really care? Modern warfare 3 outsold 2, and it looked marginally better and looks horrible compared with some of the other games on consoles. ehh.. trust me, the average consumer isn't "people's moms"

You've never worked retail have you? When I worked at Target, the largest group buying video games were soccer moms. It wasn't the 30+ year old gaffer

[i-Lo]

I don't think most people posting on these boards would want diminishing returns. This is more a discussion about what's likely to be practical and profitable.

No sane person who isn't a die hard nintendo fanboy wants that.

He is spinning. He's already defending the Wii U's inevitable technological disadvantage when the next generation of consoles arrive. And then saying that even if the next-gen consoles were that powerful developers would struggle greatly, implying that they would be completely incapable of taking advantage of the hardware anyhow. What is this if it's not spin. People can tell the difference when something vastly better looking comes along, mass consumer or hardcore gamer. And those games will come.

He is the president after all. Makes me wonder why when did Wii even bother becoming a HD console since in absolute terms more work in general is put in a HD game as opposed to an equivalent SD game.

Iwata will probably say the same thing when Nintendo comes out with their Wii U 2 which will be on par with PS4/360 and Sony and MS will reveal the iterations of their consoles respectively (either hardware or streaming based).

[Perkel]

Most people want CRAZY GRAPHICS for $299.99. Iwata is simply highlighting stark reality: That's not going to happen.

New consoles are always better in GFX than very good gaming PC for half a year to year or two.

Rather medium to only good hardware in console can be better because it's closed system.

You must forgot how GT5 HD Trial in 2006 just smoked everyone either including PC owners calling screens from it lies.

[Always-honest]

It's quite often someone is slanted or biased towards the company associated with their avatar.

yeah, life is so easy for people who can only see in black and white

[EVIL]

You've never worked retail have you? When I worked at Target, the largest group buying video games were soccer moms. It wasn't the 30+ year old gaffer

Thats because their kids harras them into buying those 18+ rated shooters or whatever, doesn't make them the target audience. the fuck would a soccer mom know about a game they are going to buy for their kids

[Captain N. Tenneal]

I recall many people in the PS4 Rumored Specs thread saying that they don't care how much it costs, and don't care if Sony goes bankrupt in delivering it, they just want the most power, PERIOD.

Are these really the people you should be listening to as a business owner? I doubt it. There's a reason devs are dropping like flies and Sony is bleeding money like a stuck pig. While no one wants to deal with the reality of diminishing returns as a fan of games, games as a business need to have some room for profitability and chance-taking or else this hobby will be irrevocably changed for the worse.

[lettermassing]

Look at how many developers have been killed off this generation due to the cost of making a current gen title. I totally agree with Iwata.

[Gummb]

People who worry so much about graphics like the masses in this thread should buy a PC, honestly. Your console war would be over. >_>

The Wii U will be a successful CONSOLE because it offers a different experience. Iwata is mostly correct, and entirely correct from his perspective as President of Nintendo.

[stuminus3]

Wow, I had no idea this Iwata guy could be so stupid.

This is class. The guy in charge of the number one most successful videogame company in the world ever is "stupid". You know, I really honestly don't care enough one way or the other but threads like this sure can bring the laughs.

[B.O.O.M]

He saw it, did a 720 and Moon walked away.

Fixed

And the Nintendo PR are starting to sound a bit too desperate and damage controlling. Not a good sign.

I can't wait until next E3 when someone like Stig from SSM comes to the stage and like so yea here's a new IP for the next PS, and blows our minds.

[Joe Molotov]

Nintendo's smart business practices make the games more fun.

[Steve Youngblood]

Look at how many developers have been killed off this generation due to the cost of making a current gen title. I totally agree with Iwata.

Then, why are we releasing new, more powerful hardware at all?

[Raide]

Look at how many developers have been killed off this generation due to the cost of making a current gen title. I totally agree with Iwata.

I am not sure how many closed due to not having enough money to finish their crazy ideas, or that many of them had terrible management and that caused their downfall.

Next-Gen I hope MS and Sony open up way more for Indie stuff and also Community Created Content. Get those user levels and skateboard designs they promised years ago.

Balance that out with big studios making those massive blockbuster chunks of awesome and people will be happy. Making a half-arsed game is just not worth the time or money.

[PdotMichael]

This is class. The guy in charge of the number one most successful videogame company in the world ever is "stupid". You know, I really honestly don't care enough one way or the other but threads like this sure can bring the laughs.

Do you know Ken Kutaragi?

[thecouncil]

Someone show him Star Wars 1313.

Show him a demo of a game that was showcased for PC only?

It's not PC exclusive.

...exclusive or not, it doesn't mean that these games will look like that on the next PS / Xbox, right? I can name a few current gen games that look like crap on console when compared to my PC.

a lot of people in this thread is acting like theyve seen games running on the next PS / Xbox hardware, when Im pretty sure they haven't.

[MormaPope]

This is class. The guy in charge of the number one most successful videogame company in the world ever is "stupid". You know, I really honestly don't care enough one way or the other but threads like this sure can bring the laughs.

How does financial success make him intelligent? Miyamoto speaks in a much more somber and intelligent way than Iwata does, if someone says something stupid, they sorta sound stupid, and Iwata said something really stupid.

[orioto]

Those screenshots are horrendous though, is this a joke post?

I think it is.

The thing is, screenshot won't really do justice to next gen graphics that much, cause what will make them shine is the dynamic things.

As it was already said in the thread, i really think the idea that more power means more money is terribly wrong. This is pretty clear that a next gen game will be able to look amazing with no more assets than now. Take any AAA game right now, then give it an awesome PQ, use less compressed normal maps from the already existing zbrush model, use lots of Unreal Engine 4 type effects (Particles, dynamic lights, dof....) and everyone here will believe it's from an other time. If this is done well, every mainstream guy seeing that on a demo tv in any store will be amazed, no doubt.

What WILL kill costs, i've always said that, is the gamer's need for giant absolute games that gives them content for their whole life.

a lot of people in this thread is acting like theyve seen games running on the next PS / Xbox hardware, when Im pretty sure they haven't.

Watches Dog and this Star Wars seems to me like the entry point for next gen games, the transition where we can still have some doubt it's possible or not on current gen.

[Somnid]

Then, why are we releasing new, more powerful hardware at all?

They've certainly been slow to, even Wii was in for 6 years before a successor which is the same as PS2 despite technical shortcoming. It's not just killed off but how many are bowing out and trying to seek new profitability making small mobile games or F2P scams?

[Evlar]

Then, why are we releasing new, more powerful hardware at all?

Isn't it about finding a balance between customer expectations and the realities of hardware and game production? I don't think Iwata is claiming that customer expectations aren't moving at all; just that the sweet spot between customer expectations for graphics, the price customers will bear for new hardware and software, and the costs of producing these things is lower, in his estimation, than some other players in the industry seem to be pitching.

[ASIS]

Look at how many developers have been killed off this generation due to the cost of making a current gen title. I totally agree with Iwata.

Surely the conomical factors also played a role in this right? It's not all due to the abnormal transition of last generation.

[Steve Youngblood]

They've certainly been slow to. It's not just killed off but how many are bowing out and trying to seek new profitability making small mobile games or F2P scams?

They're launching new hardware before the competition. I'm not sure what the next sentence is supposed to address.

[Takuan]

I don't think he's completely insane. I can see the majority of next-gen games approaching or even exceeding the visual fidelity of the Star Wars 1313 trailer, but falling short of the Agni trailer. I'd quantify SW1313 as a marked improvement over what we have now, but not a true generational leap; that would require Agni-caliber geometry, lighting, and animation in actual gameplay.

The entire Agni trailer reeks of Killzone 2 target demo shenanigans. I couldn't care less what an artist can accomplish with a real-time cutscene.

[bdizzle]

Thats because their kids harras them into buying those 18+ rated shooters or whatever, doesn't make them the target audience. the fuck would a soccer mom know about a game they are going to buy for their kids

That's kinda my point. The mass market is not GAF. Its people who don't give 2 fucks about resolution, AA, or FPS. The average consumer buys what's fun when it comes to video games, not what has the greatest use of technology.

[RurouniZel]

Then, why are we releasing new, more powerful hardware at all?

To (in theory) repair some damage they've incurred with the 3rd party publishers. It's not likely to happen, but that's the theory.

Also, because budgets for games with current gen capabilities are finally starting to show signs of stabilizing.