[RDreamer]

I'm still stuck on Act 2, but Dexterity (which you should have lots of anyways because you're a Monk) and Vitality are the must-haves. And Seize the Initiative is highly recommended if you're 1000 Dex or higher. The most effective method I've found is going through the entire last chapter of Act 1 in a co-op group and using Conviction as your mantra w/ Overawe rune. Enemies taking 24% extra damage from your entire party (48% if you're constantly refreshing, which you should be) is way too good to pass up. You have to be right next to the enemies, though, so again: use Serenity wisely, and kite. Kiting is something you can't avoid doing as Monk sometimes; that's just the way it is. Stacking evasion techniques w/ Mantra of Evasion is fantastic for normal enemies, but consider some of the worst-case scnearios for a Monk: elites with molten, desecration, plauge, and frozen + anything. These can't be dodged, so they aren't really going to help much against elites. I would only consider it if I planned to farm solo. If you're not stacking resistances to use with One With Everything (this really only becomes worthwhile once you've stacked one to be about 500 resistance), and you don't have LoH gear or weapons, Transcendence is still your best survival tool. Constantly refresh your Mantra of choice to get quick heals without having to run away. If you DO have lots of LoH, though, or gear that already gives you plenty Life Per Spirit Spent, consider a different passive. I personally like Beacon of Ytar just because of less downtime between Serenity uses (with the Ascension rune on Serenity, its only 20 seconds between when Serenity wears off and when you can use it again). Also consider Earth Ally for the health boost, and its ability to force enemies to attack it instead of you when you need to run away.

Actually, vitality is kind of low on the list for monks. If you have a choice between lots of resists and armor or vit, you need to choose resists and armor. Why is that? Because all of our heals are number based rather than percentage based. The lower your health pool the more effective your heals are. You want to mitigate the damage and make sure what's coming in is a low number that you can take care of, along with of course dodging it altogether. You're not a barb. Vit is probably a less must have than most other classes. I now have a good chunk of life, but when I first got through Act 2, 3, and my first few times through 4 I had something like 28,000 life. I think that's probably the bottom limit, but you don't really NEED 40,000 at all. It's nice to have in Act 4 if you don't have to give anything else up to get it (what I've been doing now, and I finally got my life up to that), but it's kind of last on your list. Dodge is your first defense, so have good dodge. Because of some of those things you said, armor and resists should be your 2nd defense, and that should be HUGE. Next line of defense is good timing and spacing of your skills. We've got a ton of good ones. Use them wisely and use them when needed. Vit is last.

And if you set it up right for the most part you shouldn't be kiting. The thing is that Monk benefits almost more than any other class from Life on Hit. You need that in good numbers. And with life on hit if you're kiting you're not hitting which means you're not getting life. Your build should be based more on staying put so you can dodge and gain life. That's not to say you won't have to kite. You most definitely will, and you should find out which elites those are (things with fast, molten, and arcane for example and possibly all together are definitely things you need to kite). But for the most part you need to get your build to the point where you can stand in plague pools, and where you can stand in one layer of some molten for at least a good chunk of time. Not a ton of time, but some time.

Also, Frozen can be dodged. I dodge it all the time. Frozen should never be a problem for a monk. You should dodge it most of the time, and the times you don't dodge it you have serenity. And if those two things don't work, or you're on cool down with serenity you can do something like a flash from blinding faith in order to make sure nothing can hit you while you're incapacitated (if it's a hard hitting enemy that is... if it isn't, save it, since you're likely using the +damage part of it, too).

[Neki]

TL2 isn't a $60 game. TL1 already had better end game than Diablo 3. The most important part is, TL2 allows mods and won't have the nanny state developer monitoring everything. If you don't like something about the game, you will find a mod that fixes it for you. Or you can make one yourself.

Can't people dupe and make their own items in TL2?

[Artanisix]

do not trade with milkman he is a nagger

you stole my heart

i'll make sure you never trade with anyone again

[Trickster]

Already upped

On EU servers as well ?

[nacire]

Running act 3 and out of 10 packs so far 7 have been reflect damage, and 2 have been invulnerable minions.

[Macmanus]

I do agree, Diablo 3 isn't perfect, but I find that people are naive in thinking that PoE or TL2 will be any different.

What makes you say that? PoE and TL both have demonstrated solid end game mechanics as well as both shipping with PVP. Two of the most vocal complaints levied against D3.

However I do have to agree that a lot of the angst generated by D3's disappointment ends up translating into "I hate this game!" I'm incredibly guilty of this myself. Honestly I do like D3 - I'm just incredibly saddened that Blizz is intent on repeating all the same mistakes from D2 whilst tossing in some new ones.

Can't people dupe and make their own items in TL2?

Essentially - but they'll also be marked as someone who has edited their game files so you can choose whether to play with them or not. If someone goes as far as to hack that system - well that seems like a bit of effort for a $20 game.

[linsivvi]

Can't people dupe and make their own items in TL2?

I can't speak for others but personally when I play a game I just want to be able to make my character powerful enough to handle most mobs in the game. I couldn't care less if everybody else have god like gears. This isn't a competition. I want to be entertained, not frustrated or being monitored constantly by a nanny state developer. I am a customer, not a criminal.

[Vodh]

Some of you say TL1 had more endgame than D3 - well. It was longer, there was more to do, sure. So what? What exactly does it change if the whole game got just so terribly boring after the first 2 hours?

Unless it's not a 'TL1 is better than D3', more of an 'Blizzard dropped the ball, they could have done more' argument, then yeah, I guess.

[Artadius]

I realize the market might crash in a few days... so I'm looking to move this quickly.

Price check?

[TommyT]

do not trade with milkman he is a nagger

Oh boy... had to double-take that.

[Macmanus]

Some of you say TL1 had more endgame than D3 - well. It was longer, there was more to do, sure. So what? What exactly does it change if the whole game got just so terribly boring after the first 2 hours? Unless it's not a 'TL1 is better than D3', more of an 'Blizzard dropped the ball, they could have done more' argument, then yeah, I guess.

TL1 is not better than D3. TL1 did however feature a slightly more robust end game with infinite dungeon crawling and alternative maps you could purchase to explore and of course mods. I played several classes that users made up that were more fun than those designed by Runic. Considering the enhanced mod tools available for TL2 and a stronger courtship with the modding community by Runic this time around, that's only going to increase.

With that said, the single player made the game feel stale rather quickly. The multiplayer is the biggest improvement of TL2 imo.

[Wickerbasket]

Can't people dupe and make their own items in TL2?

They're both single player games anyway, so what does it matter?

I prefer Torchlight's way of giving you small upgrades all the time. Uniques and set items everywhere, even if some aren't any good.

Hot fix still hasn't hit Europe, guess it'll be tomorrow.

[fastford58]

Running act 3 and out of 10 packs so far 7 have been reflect damage, and 2 have been invulnerable minions.

As a wizard:

I don't mind reflect damage. It's just a juggle. I actually use a bread crumb trail of health globes to kite. If you don't need them, don't pick them up. That way I run back and pick up globes as needed to mitigate reflect mobs.

I also LOVE mortar mobs. They stop to lob. I stay just in range to trigger the mortar, take 3 steps back and lob orbs back at them. I can actually get groups of mobs to stutter step as they lob mortars and I keep moving back.

Invul minions is ok on most packs for me. I use piercing orb so I can blow through them to the back of the important mob. Hydra placement changes with these mobs too.

Wallers are the creators of their own misfortune. Love em. More often then not, they wall me and I teleport out. Then they are trapped in their own walls. They can't vortex me in either haha. Pop a hydra in the wall and it's like free damage dealing lol.

Arcane is never a huge problem, nor is molten, plagued or desecrate where the damage pools are limited to a set spot. Jailers are easy to avoid with teleport.

The only time I run into an issue is when an already fast mob, like leapers, have the fast affix. Then it almost doesn't matter what other affixes there are, I am going to die. In those cases, I focus on one mob at a time if it is a champ pack, or getting rid of minions if elite. If it is invulnerable minions with fast...well, I'm screwed and I go around that elite.

[Neki]

What makes you say that? PoE and TL both have demonstrated solid end game mechanics as well as both shipping with PVP. Two of the most vocal complaints levied against D3. However I do have to agree that a lot of the angst generated by D3's disappointment ends up translating into "I hate this game!" I'm incredibly guilty of this myself. Honestly I do like D3 - I'm just incredibly saddened that Blizz is intent on repeating all the same mistakes from D2 whilst tossing in some new ones. Essentially - but they'll also be marked as someone who has edited their game files so you can choose whether to play with them or not. If someone goes as far as to hack that system - well that seems like a bit of effort for a $20 game.

Maybe the end game will be better, but I think people's obsession with getting instant gratification for loot isn't going to get fixed in PoE/TL2, which is a problem for most people too.

Also, people are willing to pirate $5 games, so I don't think an issue of effort is the problem. :P

[Rentahamster]

Can't people dupe and make their own items in TL2?

Yep, which is why I think I'd still prefer D3's online only approach. Keeps everyone honest (for the most part).

[linsivvi]

Maybe the end game will be better, but I think people's obsession with getting instant gratification for loot isn't going to get fixed in PoE/TL2, which is a problem for most people too.

People fixated so much on loots in D3 because that's the only thing to do once you've reached level 60.

How many times can you do the Sin of Heart quest that has the same 10 levels with 2 predefined layouts for each level before you get bored?

[RkOwnage]

Can I get a price check on these? not sure of max MF on boots, and if they're worth anything.

Thanks!

[maharg]

I can't speak for others but personally when I play a game I just want to be able to make my character powerful enough to handle most mobs in the game. I couldn't care less if everybody else have god like gears. This isn't a competition. I want to be entertained, not frustrated or being monitored constantly by a nanny state developer. I am a customer, not a criminal.

They made an online game where the focus was on the online economy. You bought that game expecting it to be something else. That's not 'nanny state' or 'treating you as a criminal,' it's just your own damn fault.

[Neki]

People fixated so much on loots in D3 because that's the only thing to do once you've reached level 60. How many times can you do the Sin of Heart quest that has the same 10 levels with 2 predefined layouts for each level before you get bored?

I'm up to 100 right now, but we'll see when I get tired of it!

[V_Arnold]

I quit and then they increase the drop rate. Of course, they say the drop rate in Act 3 of Hell was 9% for item level 61 and 1.9% for level 62 yet in my experience, in my actual real world gameplay, it was 4% for 61 and 0% for 62. More specifically, 3.4% of magic and rare items dropped were level 61, with 2.9% of rares and 3.65% of magic items, after 1044 drops. So either I have statistically almost impossible bad luck or... Item level 55 was by far the highest, at 25.6% of magics and 17.6% of rares. Followed in both cases by level 58, then 52.

Uhm, your math might be off. These numbers represent the type of items falling out of champion packs/mobs.
So while you might have never seen a rare 61 or 62, they might have actually dropped one or two - whites. Whether the white lv55 or lv61 gets turned to a rare is an entirely different matter.

[jono51]

I was looking for an upgrade for a decent price for my barb who was rolling a ~470 dps axe with 165 Str/95 Vit/400 LoH. Pretty much anything similar was fairly high priced (for me), like 200k+. Then this popped up for 10k buyout.



Can't complain. :P Will test it out tomorrow.

[Neki]

Yeah, people need to pay attention to white drops too when considering iL63 drops. Before this buff to drop rates, during an Act 3 run, I'd be lucky to see more than 2 i63 whites.

[Dahbomb]

LOL... whites in D3.

[Rentahamster]

People fixated so much on loots in D3 because that's the only thing to do once you've reached level 60. How many times can you do the Sin of Heart quest that has the same 10 levels with 2 predefined layouts for each level before you get bored?

Yep. I expected the devs to have come up with more things to keep the endgame experience fresh and exciting, but they didn't evolve the 12 year old Diablo 2 "new game+" mechanic at all. That was a tad disappointing.

[HenryHSH]

Grey is where it's at.

Yep. I expected the devs to have come up with more things to keep the endgame experience fresh and exciting, but they didn't evolve the 12 year old Diablo 2 "new game+" mechanic at all. That was a tad disappointing.

They went backwards in terms of end-game content. But a lot of D2's content was added later on.

[Xamdou]

Yeah, people need to pay attention to white drops too when considering iL63 drops. Before this buff to drop rates, during an Act 3 run, I'd be lucky to see more than 2 i63 whites.

Whites? Is that the new color for lvl 63 items?

[linsivvi]

They made an online game where the focus was on the online economy. You bought that game expecting it to be something else. That's not 'nanny state' or 'treating you as a criminal,' it's just your own damn fault.

How am I supposed to know the focus was the online economy? It certainly wasn't written on the box or on their webpage before I bought the game. Am I supposed to read every developer interview before I purchase the game? The only thing I expected differently from every other games I've played is that it's always online.

I consider it "nanny state" when they've made dozen of changes in less than 2 months, including gimping items that some people might have paid real money for and changing fundamental things like difficulty progression that they should've finalized before release. I didn't expect to pay $60 for a game that is pretty much still in beta stage.

If I was offered an option to refund the game within a week of purchase and I didn't, then yes, it's my own damn fault. Too bad I wasn't.

[Rentahamster]

Whites? Is that the new color for lvl 63 items?

What he means is, that you have to take into account the amount of ilvl63 whites that drop too, since they are also part of the overall % of ilvl63 items that are eligible to drop.

Those drop % numbers that blizzard gave out are for ilvl63 items of any quality, not just magic/rare/legendary.

[Trickster]

Gonna ask again because Im really curious, is the drop rate buff live on EU server as well as US?

[Macmanus]

How am I supposed to know the focus was the online economy?.

You weren't. The devs are treating it like a nanny state in an attempt to control an economy that popped up organically last time and they're doing a piss poor job at it. Or at least were. It seems they've taken a hint. Instead of just telling the players what they want - they're listening to what they want.

[syllogism]

Gonna ask again because Im really curious, is the drop rate buff live on EU server as well as US?

No, tomorrow morning when they do a server restart

[Rentahamster]

They went backwards in terms of end-game content. But a lot of D2's content was added later on.

Yeah, which is why I'm still optimistic that Blizzard can eventually straighten all this shit out and deliver the kick ass experience everyone was hoping for.

I just figure that's it's sad that they had a really good starting point with D2 LoD. It takes a certain kind of skill to have that big of a head start, with that much collected user data, with 12 years of development, to actually launch D3 in a state that is inferior in a few key aspects to D2:LoD.

[Neki]

you guys playing the beta should have seen this coming!

[maharg]

How am I supposed to know the focus was the online economy? It certainly wasn't written on the box or on their webpage before I bought the game. Am I supposed to read every developer interview before I purchase the game? The only thing I expected differently from every other games I've played is that it's always online. I consider it "nanny state" when they've made dozen of changes in less than 2 months, including gimping items that some people might have paid real money for and changing fundamental things like difficulty progression that they should've finalized before release. I didn't expect to pay $60 for a game that is pretty much still in beta stage. If I was offered an option to refund the game within a week of purchase and I didn't, then yes, it's my own damn fault. Too bad I wasn't.

I didn't read every developer interview. In fact, I read very little about the game in advance.

But I knew damn well the game was online only and that there was an auction house feature and that they were focusing on loot. I'm sorry, but this was fundamental to pretty much everything ever said about Diablo 3 since it was unveiled. And D2 had already started things in that direction.

And no, every product is not required to give you a refund if you don't do your own due diligence before buying it. They never kept any of their intentions a secret.

[Macmanus]

you guys playing the beta should have seen this coming!

When I left the beta I was praising the intuitive crafting system :(

I didn't read every developer interview. In fact, I read very little about the game in advance. But I knew damn well the game was online only and that there was an auction house feature and that they were focusing on loot. I'm sorry, but this was fundamental to pretty much everything ever said about Diablo 3 since it was unveiled. And D2 had already started things in that direction.

Is this a serious post? One was supposed to expect hotfix nerfs, shitty loot tables, and a lack of end game because there was an AH?

[Xamdou]

What he means is, that you have to take into account the amount of ilvl63 whites that drop too, since they are also part of the overall % of ilvl63 items that are eligible to drop. Those drop % numbers that blizzard gave out are for ilvl63 items of any quality, not just magic/rare/legendary.

Gotcha!

[linsivvi]

You weren't. The devs are treating it like a nanny state in an attempt to control an economy that popped up organically last time and they're doing a piss poor job at it. Or at least were. It seems they've taken a hint. Instead of just telling the players what they want - they're listening to what they want.

Maybe I'm just old school. I am just used to play games at my own pace and by my own method. If I find a cool trick in beating a certain boss on the internet, or a build that allows me to maximize the offensive efficient of my character, I'd like to try it without worrying about being taken away a week later. I never worry about cheaters because I can always play with my friends or an online community like GAF.

If D3 is a sign of how the future of video game from major studios will become, I guess I'll just have to stick to indie games or find a new hobby.

I didn't read every developer interview. In fact, I read very little about the game in advance. But I knew damn well the game was online only and that there was an auction house feature and that they were focusing on loot, which I have no . I'm sorry, but this was fundamental to pretty much everything ever said about Diablo 3 since it was unveiled. And D2 had already started things in that direction. And no, every product is not required to give you a refund if you don't do your own due diligence before buying it. They never kept any of their intentions a secret.

When I said "nanny state" I was referring to constant hot fixes which has nothing to do with the auction house or the focus on loot, both of which I have no problem with. They were gimping many things that players enjoy or things that aren't even broken. If they were so overpowered that they had to fix it a month after release, then it's just a poor job by the entire development team for not seeing it prior release.

I do not expect them to give me a refund. I'd just make damn sure the next Blizzard game I purchase is up to my expectation in terms of quality before I purchase it. I just totally disagree that it's "my own damn fault" because I do not have a problem with a loot focus or the RMAH. I have a problem with the quality of the game and the way they treat their customers. And no amount of due diligence can foresee that unless I wait a few months after the game's release, which I will absolutely do for any future Blizzard games.

[Teitan]

Since I'm not very good at pricing, I'd really appreciate some estimations about what this armor could go for in AH or RMAH (EU):



Tried to search for different 3-attribute-combinations and came up with some values that seem to justify putting it on the RMAH as I'd rather have lots of dex on my armor. Thanks in advance.

[Neki]

Maybe I'm just old school. I am just used to play games at my own pace and by my own method. If I find a cool trick in beating a certain boss on the internet, or a build that allows me to maximize the offensive efficient of my character, I'd like to try it without worrying about being taken away a week later. I never worry about cheaters because I can always play with my friends or an online community like GAF. If D3 is a sign of how the future of video game from major studios will become, I guess I'll just have to stick to indie games or find a new hobby.

I'm sure you'll find cheaters on GAF too, don't worry about that.

[Rentahamster]

you guys playing the beta should have seen this coming!

I wrote about it all the time!

I took it on faith that a lot of the issues that I predicted would arise would not be so just because I only had access to a small part of act 1, up to level 13.

[maharg]

Is this a serious post? One was supposed to expect hotfix nerfs, shitty loot tables, and a lack of end game because there was an AH?

I'm not saying they haven't made any mistakes. Far from it, I've been very critical of this game since before it came out.

But it's an online game for loot and it always has been and blizzard has never ever done anything to deceive anyone into believing otherwise. Buying it in the hopes that it'd be a single player game where they wouldn't exert any control was just a very poor choice, but on your part not theirs.

(edit: it may also have been a bad choice on their part to make it that kind of game, to be sure, but there was no bait and switch here.)

[scy]

Maybe I'm just old school. I am just used to play games at my own pace and by my own method. If I find a cool trick in beating a certain boss on the internet, or a build that allows me to maximize the offensive efficient of my character, I'd like to try it without worrying about being taken away a week later.

Is this about the Attack Speed change? It wasn't handled well at all (really, do that pre-RMAH guys) but it kind of made sense. A lot of Blizzard's fixes so far have been reasonable themselves but the way they did them was bad. Personally, anyway.

And, coming from Diablo 2 (and/or WoW if we want to count it too), nerfing builds is kind of a thing :x

[Rentahamster]

Is this a serious post? One was supposed to expect hotfix nerfs, shitty loot tables, and a lack of end game because there was an AH?

They aren't talking about that. They are talking about the online-only, emphasis on the AH aspects of the game.

[Macmanus]

But it's an online game for loot and it always has been and blizzard has never ever done anything to deceive anyone into believing otherwise. Buying it in the hopes that it'd be a single player game where they wouldn't exert any control was just a very poor choice, but on your part not theirs. (edit: it may also have been a bad choice on their part to make it that kind of game, to be sure, but there was no bait and switch here.)

Fair points. The always online thing which was blatantly advertised since forever ago should have been a clear indicator. I think my rose colored glasses might have gotten in the way of seeing how drastic they would be monitoring the game from the get-go.

[Seth C]

What he means is, that you have to take into account the amount of ilvl63 whites that drop too, since they are also part of the overall % of ilvl63 items that are eligible to drop. Those drop % numbers that blizzard gave out are for ilvl63 items of any quality, not just magic/rare/legendary.

Yes, but over the course of over 1000 drops that should level out. Unless white lvl 63 (really just 61, I can't get to Hell yet) have a significantly higher chance to drop. Either way, white are useless so what's the point? If the chance to get a magic lvl 61 is 0% it doesn't matter if the chance to get a white one is 99%, you're still getting nothing to use.

Anyway, my connection just got dropped (as always) so fuck it for now. Not starting Act 3 over again. So far since the change my drop rates are (small sample size of course)...


62: 0%
61: 0% (3.4)
60: 2.3% (10.3)
59: 7.1% (5.1)
58: 16.6% (16.3)
57: 7.1% (6.0)
56: 11.9% (11.2)
55: 19% (23.2)
54: 4.7% (2.5)
53: 4.7% (3.4)
52: 23.8% (13.7)
51: 0% (2.5)
<=50: 2.3% (1.7)

Old stats are in parenthesis. It's interested to see that despite the very small sample size (only 42 magic and rare drops) lots of the same things are showing up, like the huge peaks at 58, 55, and 52. Very consistent compared to before the hotfix.

[scy]

Fair points. The always online thing which was blatantly advertised since forever ago should have been a clear indicator. I think my rose colored glasses might have gotten in the way of seeing how drastic they would be monitoring the game from the get-go.

Possibly. There were huge sweeping changes at launch Diablo 2 as well (e.g., Corpse Explosion?) so it isn't like they just now decided with Diablo 3 to start knee-jerk nerfing things.

[Neki]

Yes, but over the course of over 1000 drops that should level out. Unless white lvl 63 (really just 61, I can't get to Hell yet) have a significantly higher chance to drop. Either way, white are useless so what's the point? If the chance to get a magic lvl 61 is 0% it doesn't matter if the chance to get a white one is 99%, you're still getting nothing to use.

If you keep getting white iL63s that means your MF is too low.

[Macmanus]

Possibly. There were huge sweeping changes at launch Diablo 2 as well (e.g., Corpse Explosion?) so it isn't like they just now decided with Diablo 3 to start knee-jerk nerfing things.

Didn't they adjust corpse explosion a number of times? I built a corpse explosion necro just for having fun on cow runs and that thing ruled... until it was nerfed. That was long after launch.

Also a lot of the changes at launch were buffs to gear - not nerfs. Upping the roll rate and stats on rares early on - and the buff to polearms was HUGE.

[linsivvi]

Is this about the Attack Speed change? It wasn't handled well at all (really, do that pre-RMAH guys) but it kind of made sense. A lot of Blizzard's fixes so far have been reasonable themselves but the way they did them was bad. Personally, anyway. And, coming from Diablo 2 (and/or WoW if we want to count it too), nerfing builds is kind of a thing :x

Actually I have no problem with them fixing IAS. It's indeed overpowered.

I feel like a broken record but they never fixed IAS. They just took the easiest path and use a simple SQL statement to gimp every piece of equipment. IAS is just still as powerful as it was before.

If they were really serious about not making IAS the most important stat, they should rework the combat engine to not use it for props and resource generation, but I guess that's too much work post release.

[scy]

Yes, but over the course of over 1000 drops that should level out. Unless white lvl 63 (really just 61, I can't get to Hell yet) have a significantly higher chance to drop. Either way, white are useless so what's the point? If the chance to get a magic lvl 61 is 0% it doesn't matter if the chance to get a white one is 99%, you're still getting nothing to use.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, to be honest. There's an X% Chance for an item to be an ilvl 63 one. It has an A% chance to be White, B% chance to be Magical, C% chance to be Rare, and D%* chance to be Legendary. I guess if you're JUST collecting the Rares over a sample of 1000 then, yes, it should be close to the listed drop percentages.

*0%. There are no ilvl 63 Legendaries.

Didn't they adjust corpse explosion a number of times? I built a corpse explosion necro just for having fun on cow runs and that thing ruled... until it was nerfed. That was long after launch.

CE was nerfed in 1.03 which was like a month after release, if I recall.

Also a lot of the changes at launch were buffs to gear - not nerfs. Upping the roll rate and stats on rares early on - and the buff to polearms was HUGE.

I'd have to check but I remember the first class rebalance patch was nerfs.