[jaxword]

Why is it important for someone to know you're an atheist when you're helping the less fortunate?

The same reason why groups have to let people know what religion they're part of when helping the less fortunate. And do not pretend that positive portrayals of the religion are not a major part of relief and support groups in the long run. You said:

"I'm agnostic but most of the communal work I've done has been through religious organizations. Why? I suspect they galvanize people to communicate and work together in certain ways. During the 1980s labor riots in South Korea, religious organizations were instrumental in helping workers negotiate for union rights in some of the most gruesome of of conditions. "

Your own statement acknowledges these religious groups as laudable because of their efforts. And I don't disagree with that.

I said that religion and politics are the same thing, and I stand by that, and it requires very deliberate manipulation of media perception. There's a reason that there's LITERALLY HUNDREDS of pedophile rape cases against the Vatican right now yet they still manage to project an image of benevolence. This is why I said the atheists have to play the same game if they want their image to improve. You DO know that thanks to their own lack of charismatic leaders and propaganda against them for 40 years that at this point in time atheists are less trusted than RAPISTS, right?


You seem to think I'm defending the atheists, by the way. I never said I was an atheist. I am specifically criticizing their lack of action and inability to galvanize their numbers and improve their image and show they actually can be a force for good. They refuse to play the political game, and it is costing them.

[Buzzati]

The same reason why groups have to let people know what religion they're part of when helping the less fortunate.

I'll defer to you: What is that reason? I'd like to know what you believe they pontificate at soup kitchens.

[Canuck76]

You believe that they are sinners, and that their behavior is an affront to god and that their lifestyle choice is wrong and that their love for their chosen partner is an abomination. So yes, that is your belief, but it is NOT respectful. Your belief is disrespectful to their lifestyle. Actively, passively, historically and currently. People who have shared your belief have murdered and oppressed gay people for thousands of years, so forgive them if they aren't too happy about it. And they still cant get married because of ongoing hatred from religious groups. They do not owe you any latitude and they are right, YOU need to change, they do not. It's that simple. Your belief is the problem, not their choice of partner. Sorry if that's offensive, it's just a naked and clinical statement of fact. Polite language in a forum, while better than the alternative, does NOT constitute respect. You may as well be a polite racist patiently explaining to an black man why he is inferior.

Wow.......hahahaha. Such blatant postmodernism is just amazing to me

[jaxword]

I'll defer to you: What is that reason? I'd like to know what you believe they pontificate at soup kitchens.

Why would you think soup kitchens are what I'm talking about? YOU weren't even talking about those when you brought up your own example of South Korean Christians and union fights. I am talking about big statements that people REALLY remember, like missionary groups building schools, or, really, anything that gets headlines--which is exactly what started this discussion, remember? Someone complaining about how when religious groups make positive headlines, there's always dissenters.

So the proper deference is to you: How exactly are those religious groups making headlines if their religion isn't mentioned?

[Stinkles]

Wow.......hahahaha.

It's a fact. Now it's a difficult fact. It's a complicated fact, but the old testament, where Christians who are opposed to homosexuality pick and choose bits of Leviticus that won't get them stoned to death (for wearing two different fabrics, for example) to confront homosexual behavior they don't like. I think if Christians (and others) took the entire bible as literally as those cherry picked passages, then they would have an argument to say, 'I can't help it, it's the literal instruction of god.' but the fact that there are literally HUNDREDS of passages they ignore because they seem outdated or barbaric shows how much choice and disrespect is actually at play here.

If your pastor insisted that you stone women to death for having a child out of wedlock, you might leave that church. But hate the gays? Prevent them from living in peace and love? Ok that's fine. That's choice. That's agency. That's cherry picking. And that's on you.

You're pretending your belief is somehow immobile and beyond your control. That is nonsense. You are choosing the entire thing, as well as its components and you aren't applying a single filter to the belief.

[jaxword]

Wow.......hahahaha. Such blatant postmodernism is just amazing to me

So are you just going to pretend not to see the fact you're defending a guy who equates homosexuals and bestiality?

Doing that just proves your own dishonesty.

[Canuck76]

So are you just going to pretend not to see the fact you're defending a guy who equates homosexuals and bestiality? Doing that just proves your own dishonesty.

I haven't seen the post in question. But from what i've seen of mclaren he's completely respectful and i'll vouch for him 100%

[jaxword]

I haven't seen the post in question. But from what i've seen of mclaren he's completely respectful and i'll vouch for him 100%

Well, this is wrong.

Google search of 5 seconds produces many posts, here's one:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=149

[Orayn]

Well, this is wrong. Google search of 5 seconds produces many links, here's one: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=149

But he didn't swear or get mad! That means his bigoted views are respectful.

[Cipherr]

The "Black people don't tip" thread. Ot any tipping thread.

That one really got under my skin. Had to remove myself from that thread and seriously stop reading it. Made my fucking blood boil.

Pretty much that, and the religious debates/discussions on GAF. The religious stuff has got to be reeled in man. Way to much trolling from both the religious and the opposed on GAF, and seemingly little to no deserved casualties from it. The people on both sides of those ugly arguments get pretty goddamn scummy with the personal attacks, insults, and cheapshots and their accounts always stay in tact.

What someone mentioned earlier is right on point. You try some of that stuff on other topics and it would be a freaking banned user wasteland, but folks in a lot of the political and religious debates get pretty damn nasty and its allowed to go on. I just avoid the threads as much as I can.

[EvilMario]

Chopsticks. Why still?

[suzu]

I remember being annoyed at a hot women thread that was basically a ranking of which race/ethnicity was considered high tier, low tier, etc.

[Brera]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthre...8#post34510358 but the lulz were had

Funniest part is all the banned posters in the thread...all apart from the person who posted the comment!

[Buzzati]

Why would you think soup kitchens are what I'm talking about?

I gave examples of some ways churches sponsor volunteer work for the less fortunate in the community. A soup kitchen was one of them, among other things on the same scale. I asked why atheists have to let the less fortunate know they're atheists when they are apart of this kind of work. You wrote for the same reason that a religious organization would. I inquired as to what sort of reason that was, because I honestly have no idea myself.

I am talking about big statements that people REALLY remember, like missionary groups building schools, or, really, anything that gets headlines-- So the proper deference is to you: How exactly are those religious groups making headlines if their religion isn't mentioned?

We were talking about how complaining about feeling helpless about the injustices of religion on the internet as a person's sole respite for their desperation was disingenuous. We were talking about how helping out in the community was a better alternative than feeling helpless. You agreed with that assessment and then you injected something about how atheists have to score points for their team in order to win the political battle. It doesn't have to be too difficult to believe that people do volunteer work to create meaning in their own and to alleviate the suffering in other peoples lives. Your acknowledgement of the idea for atheists to come together in this political tug-of-war where the less fortunate are chess pieces to rack up points to fight off the religious agenda, to bolster their own, is not something many people that do this kind of work would agree with. When you talk about why church's help others out, even largescale projects like building a school, it tells me that you have your own (wrong) ideas about why people involve themselves in charity.

I feel like the rest of rest of this thread would be devoted to you making assertions about what I wrote and then me writing what I actually wrote, while you dodge the question about why you feel that charity is an exhibition of advertisement and checkers. I'm bowing out.

[RukusProvider]

Generally annoyed at PC gaf and how they love to gang up on people.

For a group that wants to enforce tolerance, its hypocritical how they now have taken on a mob mentality with relentless effort to get people banned for not being on their side.

[jaxword]

1. I asked why atheists have to let the less fortunate know they're atheists. You wrote for the same reason that a religious organization would. I inquired as to what sort of reason was, because I honestly have no idea myself. ... 2. I feel like the rest of rest of this thread would be devoted to you making assertions about what I wrote and then me writing what I actually wrote, while you dodge the question about why you feel that charity is an exhibition of advertisement and checkers.

I'm not dodging anything. I answered your questions, but challenged you on your stances at the same time. I'll label with numbers so you cannot claim confusion.

This debate started with someone complaining that when religious groups make headlines for their charitable acts, people still criticize.

Therefore the very EXISTENCE of the headlines proves that the religious group has made their organization and its beliefs known while doing the work. That is the exhibition of advertisement you asked for : 2.

That is the reason why atheists have to do the same to gain credibility, or else they'll remain forever demonized by all sides : 1.

[Canuck76]

Well, this is wrong. Google search of 5 seconds produces many links, here's one: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=149

Yeah i stand behind that 100%. That's what i believe. He's not trying to wreck people or shame them, or even accuse or judge them. That's the truth and he's telling it. There's no sense of superiority in that. It's a statement of what is right and wrong.

Now if what i believe is disrespectful to their lifestyle pfffhahahaha, buckle up because life is gets tougher than that hahahaha.

That's just ridiculous on a whole other level.

Point is i think we all go out of our way to express support for persona sexuall freedoms and realize how the world is and that people disagree and have different lives. That's fine. Here's what i believe, you may not, I'm not going to try to persecute you or come after you, or take anything away. We don't support bullying of any sort.

But we do have concrete beliefs of right and wrong. Here's what they are, here's why they work, here's why i disagree.

Those guys have always been accommodating in that regard.

[jaxword]

Yeah i stand behind that 100%. That's what i believe. He's not trying to wreck people or shame them, or even accuse or judge them. That's the truth and he's telling it. There's no sense of superiority in that. It's a statement of what is right and wrong. Now if what i believe is disrespectful to their lifestyle pfffhahahaha, buckle up because life is gets tougher than that hahahaha.

Why do you think homosexuality is like bestiality?

[NathanMcMahon]

You think homosexuality is like bestiality?

Just let bigots be bigots. There's nothing beyond that. They will be in the minority someday, otherwise there is nothing left to be said.

[The Anti-Monitor]

Now if what i believe is disrespectful to their lifestyle pfffhahahaha, buckle up because life is gets tougher than that hahahaha.

Well, yeah, it definitely gets tougher for some of us because of beliefs like yours being the majority.

[Dram]

The black women aren't attractive thread. Posters would post pics to prove them wrong and other posters would say the pics didn't count because the women looked mixed. I think it got to the point where people were comparing noses to prove the girls weren't black.

[WoodenLung]

When they say bear they don't actually mean a real bear, guys.

[Enco]

Any thread on anything remotely religious.

A large part of GAF is intolerant as fuck (although they try to appear progressive).

[Callo Merlose]

The replies to this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=423462

[El Sloth]

The posters in the recent pizza thread that said they eat pizza with a knife and fork.

What the fuck, guys

[Orayn]

Any thread on anything remotely religious. A large part of GAF is intolerant as fuck (although they try to appear progressive).

I get the feeling you want to compare having ideological differences with religious people to being a racist, sexist, etc. and I very much disagree with that reasoning.

[jaxword]

Any thread on anything remotely religious. A large part of GAF is intolerant as fuck (although they try to appear progressive).

This is very ironic, given that if you look 5 inches above your post you see religious people arguing raping animals is the same as being gay.

I'd seriously, no sarcasm, would like to hear your opinion on tolerance there.

[CoilShot]

The "Black people don't tip" thread. Ot any tipping thread.

This.

[Timedog]

Man punches woman into coma over parking space i laughed out loud.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...97&postcount=7

he should be killed, sent to rot in prison, and then killed again He should be killed, sent to rot in prison, baked into a pizza, then fed to a tiger centipede (like a human centipede, but with tigers).

[that1dude24]

Yeah i stand behind that 100%. That's what i believe. He's not trying to wreck people or shame them, or even accuse or judge them. That's the truth and he's telling it. There's no sense of superiority in that. It's a statement of what is right and wrong.

a statement that he's in the right and they're in the wrong. no, no superiority whatsoever!

Now if what i believe is disrespectful to their lifestyle pfffhahahaha, buckle up because life is gets tougher than that hahahaha.

i think you just admitted that it's disrespectful. "buckel up cuz lyfe gets tuffer" doesn't mean a damn thing.

Point is i think we all go out of our way to express support for persona sexuall freedoms and realize how the world is and that people disagree and have different lives. That's fine. Here's what i believe, you may not, I'm not going to try to persecute you or come after you, or take anything away. We don't support bullying of any sort.

unless it's in the afterlife. then all bets are off for those perverse homosexuals, right?

here's my question - if you don't expect punishment or recourse for homosexuals, why would you go out of your way to state anything on the matter?

[Boozeroony]

Funniest part is all the banned posters in the thread...all apart from the person who posted the comment!

I did not get permabanned. Only a month iirc.

Longest month ever :(

[Amir0x]

It's a fact. Now it's a difficult fact. It's a complicated fact, but the old testament, where Christians who are opposed to homosexuality pick and choose bits of Leviticus that won't get them stoned to death (for wearing two different fabrics, for example) to confront homosexual behavior they don't like. I think if Christians (and others) took the entire bible as literally as those cherry picked passages, then they would have an argument to say, 'I can't help it, it's the literal instruction of god.' but the fact that there are literally HUNDREDS of passages they ignore because they seem outdated or barbaric shows how much choice and disrespect is actually at play here. If your pastor insisted that you stone women to death for having a child out of wedlock, you might leave that church. But hate the gays? Prevent them from living in peace and love? Ok that's fine. That's choice. That's agency. That's cherry picking. And that's on you. You're pretending your belief is somehow immobile and beyond your control. That is nonsense. You are choosing the entire thing, as well as its components and you aren't applying a single filter to the belief.

*clap clap clap* Bravo.

So sad, the contortions certain religious folk have to go through in order to seemingly make it to some version of eternity that isn't endless torture. I really feel for them :(

[NathanMcMahon]

*clap clap clap* Bravo. So sad, the contortions certain religious folk have to go through in order to seemingly make it to some version of eternity that isn't endless torture. I really feel for them :(

and it's amazing how they never address it when it's brought up, at least in any meaningful way that doesn't ooze hypocrisy.

[BigDes]

The posters in the recent pizza thread that said they eat pizza with a knife and fork. What the fuck, guys

I refuse to believe this

[Amir0x]

and it's amazing how they never address it when it's brought up, at least in any meaningful way that doesn't ooze hypocrisy.

I mean I don't want to take any credit away from the fundamentalists in this regard - I have heard about a billion and one defenses of why they love to selectively pick one quote from the Bible while wholesale ignoring others which would clearly cause them to be put on the chopping block themselves - but I think it is true that I have yet to hear one sound logical reason for it.

But I do think it's not surprising... religion and logic do not typically go together too well. I know people like to pretend the two can coexist, but they really can't.

[BigDes]

This is very ironic, given that if you look 5 inches above your post you see religious people arguing raping animals is the same as being gay. I'd seriously, no sarcasm, would like to hear your opinion on tolerance there.

But with Christianity instead of Britney

[Tguy]

If you're not someone like that, you're definitely doing a good job impersonating one. The trolling is coming from within the house.

Except nowhere did I say insults=trolling lol. I feel like you are reading something else because I am mostly agreeing with what you are saying about religion lol. I'm just saying I don't see how it get a free pass to troll but nothing else does and religion being a huge part of the world sounds like a poor excuse. Unless I heard it coming from a mod that that's the reason why.

[El Sloth]

I refuse to believe this

Look at these animals:

All sophisticated classy people eat pizza with a knife and fork.

High class people like me do. You use your dirty hands?

[BigDes]

Look at these animals:

What

the

fuck

[jaxword]

Except nowhere did I say insults=trolling lol. I feel like you are reading something else because I am mostly agreeing with what you are saying about religion lol. I'm just saying I don't see how it get a free pass to troll but nothing else does and religion being a huge part of the world sounds like a poor excuse. Unless I heard it coming from a mod that that's the reason why.

It certainly seemed like you were pushing the insults = trolling angle. But, if you're not trolling, then I'm glad we can come to an amiable agreement for the most part.

I think you'd best just accept that any large entity--let's try business and say Microsoft--loses its "protected" status from insults and trolling because, quite frankly, why bother trying to stop people from doing it? If your organization has BILLIONS of people's worth of influence around the world, you're going to get insults (and trolling) from every angle.

[FairyD]

No just to roll joints with when I run out of papers.

those really thin blank pages that bibles have? Great subsitute for rolling papers. Everything else is crap.

[Monocle]

Yeah i stand behind that 100%. That's what i believe. He's not trying to wreck people or shame them, or even accuse or judge them. That's the truth and he's telling it. There's no sense of superiority in that. It's a statement of what is right and wrong. Now if what i believe is disrespectful to their lifestyle pfffhahahaha, buckle up because life is gets tougher than that hahahaha. That's just ridiculous on a whole other level. Point is i think we all go out of our way to express support for persona sexuall freedoms and realize how the world is and that people disagree and have different lives. That's fine. Here's what i believe, you may not, I'm not going to try to persecute you or come after you, or take anything away. We don't support bullying of any sort. But we do have concrete beliefs of right and wrong. Here's what they are, here's why they work, here's why i disagree. Those guys have always been accommodating in that regard.

Wow, fuck your despicable views. Everything about this post is grotesque.

"Gay people are gross pervs and that's a fact. We can agree to disagree if you want, but I'm still right."

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...97&postcount=7

And then the tigers should be pickled in the fermented tears of Hitler.

[Pennybags]

What I don't get is that when asked, certain Christians say that the OT laws don't apply after Jesus' death. Is there any text that backs that up?

[Tguy]

It certainly seemed like you were pushing the insults = trolling angle. But, if you're not trolling, then I'm glad we can come to an amiable agreement for the most part. I think you'd best just accept that any large entity--let's try business and say Microsoft--loses its "protected" status from insults and trolling because, quite frankly, why bother trying to stop people from doing it? If your organization has BILLIONS of people's worth of influence around the world, you're going to get insults (and trolling) from every angle.

I suppose if you look at it that way, you are definitely right.

[jaxword]

I suppose if you look at it that way, you are right.

Besides, there's worse trolls than "Lol jesus sucks" anyways. That's just lashing out and they will learn they can't convince people that way. But how do you feel about that religious canuck76 out there who is PROUD to support homosexuals=animal rapers? Now THAT is far worse than any rude atheists.

[Timedog]

Everyone saying they never take offense to anything is full of it. I think people have some cartoon vision of what taking offense means.

[Orayn]

Everyone saying they never take offense to anything is full of it. I think people have some cartoon vision of what taking offense means.

That sort of person is also very likely to display Fox News type meta-offense and not realize the irony.

"JEEZ, GUYS, STOP GETTING SO OFFENDED AT THINGS! THIS IS MAKING ME UPSET!"

[Monocle]

It's a fact. Now it's a difficult fact. It's a complicated fact, but the old testament, where Christians who are opposed to homosexuality pick and choose bits of Leviticus that won't get them stoned to death (for wearing two different fabrics, for example) to confront homosexual behavior they don't like. I think if Christians (and others) took the entire bible as literally as those cherry picked passages, then they would have an argument to say, 'I can't help it, it's the literal instruction of god.' but the fact that there are literally HUNDREDS of passages they ignore because they seem outdated or barbaric shows how much choice and disrespect is actually at play here. If your pastor insisted that you stone women to death for having a child out of wedlock, you might leave that church. But hate the gays? Prevent them from living in peace and love? Ok that's fine. That's choice. That's agency. That's cherry picking. And that's on you. You're pretending your belief is somehow immobile and beyond your control. That is nonsense. You are choosing the entire thing, as well as its components and you aren't applying a single filter to the belief.

Such a good post.

[Llyranor]

That guy who said he liked Star Ocean 4.

[Kapura]

the funny pictures thread never fails to offend my sense of humour.